Open 293 - Donner Party Mafia, Take Two (Game Over)

[lane0168]

could you tell me what kind of emotions you felt when i was saying that andrew?

mmm? was it anger maybe? did you laugh? did you feel loved?

or did you think, "good point, why WOULD he draw attention to himself?" cause thats what i thought, but it was mostly a mental reaction, not an emotional reaction

[Friend]

AtE is the wrong term, but andrew actually brings up a valid point. That bolded bit is slightly scummy - it's kind of like whining when the doc dies, an easy way to appear town without doing anything at all.

[lane0168]

the last thing i'm about to do is try to "appear" town or TRY anything at all after a couple people have suggested I am town. I am in no position to need to try to appear anything here. or maybe i actually AM upset at someone trying to appear town, and basically telling the scum who to vote for first, because he's good.

obviously now seeing other people finding me scummy, bleh, i'll say what i really thought about magna's comment

I do not find it helpful at all. I do not see a reason to say it if you are town. Absolutely none. If we are here to play to win. why the eff are you gonna tell the scum that you'll likely have a large part in them losing if they dont vote you off? Why? WHYYYY?!

Maybe someone can tell me if this is a thing he frequently says at the beginning of games, and hence, gets killed night 1 frequently... cause that would be weird if there was a correlation.

obviously he is experienced, so i find my next comment to probably be contradictory to what you'll all think and draw some attention to myself

Regardless, if he is scum, he really would have no fear of being killed night 1 would he? esp if SK. so it would be a pretty safe thing to say.

like i said, he is experienced i hear, and probably realizes something like that.

after all that, i REALLY do not know where to go with any of it

[tclawren]

Magna is gone, so can someone tell me why he would let everyone in on that he is very good at being town and inviting the scum to kill him? I do not understand this play in my limited abilities. if he's town i don't want scum to be killing the best players. and... why would he say this unless he has no fear of being killed? i'm concerned...

I wasn't going to answer this, but since...

He gets killed night 1 a lot. That was presumably just his way of establishing himself as a strong player for anyone unfamiliar with him. Then again, I probably shouldn't be answering for him, but oh well.

The question has already been answered. But I think the real answer is to see reactions like your's Lane. That and to generally screw with the everyone's head. Most people know that Magna is really good, so the potential gain from his mind games is really much greater for him than just clamming up about it.

[Magua]

pappums rat replaces Escho

[andrew94]

wait, lane who suggested you are town?
lol?

[lane0168]

wait, lane who suggested you are town?
lol?

tcl is town. Don't worry about him. Pretty sure lane is too

I think lane is town too. Tcl I'm not so sure about.

What are you playing at here andrew? Any other brain busters?

[andrew94]

and you are trusting their town read on you in page 2?

besides , friend not saying u as town read anymore

[Friend]

No, I still think lane is probably town. Just that one point is a little scummy, but the rest of it doesn't feel like it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome pappums.

--

Ha! I forgot there was an sk in this game.

Really? That’s interesting.

1. Did you not fully review all the role-pms upon the game starting to gather information? I did. From doing so I learned that scum have Daychat so I abandoned a line of thought I had about Friend being possible Goon for being late to confirm while being active elsewhere on site.
2. You directly quoted Shotty saying “DH is the SK”. You didn’t notice him referring to the SK then?

--

Is this really true? I'll have to keep that in my database to use at a later date. No, I am not scum. Are you?
(but in all seriousness, are you scum?)

Why would you keep it in your database if you are unsure if it is true (which is inferred by your question)?

Do you not read the thread? I’ve already told you I’m not in my first post.

I'm not sure what your preview edit means. Is that a question?

A preview edit is created when someone Previews their post and sees others have posted while they were drafting. Responses are then edited in … thus the term Preview edit.

It wasn’t a question but an observation.

As a newbie I'm still trying to feel my way about the proper etiquette for playing here, and apparently one of the things I still don't get is how to do RVs. I've already been yelled at for not participating in them and it's a little frustrating to be reprimanded again for doing something silly during this stage of the game again.

There is no proper way to do RVS. It isn’t a separate stage of the game that has its own rules and etiquette. People are going to ‘yell’ at you regardless of how you operate because that is a part of the early game – needling and questioning small, insignificant things to get the game rolling.

--

I missed this. Is this a serious vote?

Friend has already explained it wasn’t. My question – why would you think it was? It was pretty clear from the context (Lane using multiple exclamation points).

Do you have proof of this? Statistically speaking? Former games of yours should suffice, link a few if you can, please.

No, I don’t have have a statistically proven tell there. At best it is anecdotal (IdiotKing in the abandoned Prison Mafia is the case the leaps to mind first) observation. I was reaction testing Tclaw than observing a scum-tell.

tclawren is a special case because he, by his own admission and as DRK pointed out, put a vote on someone who can't reply back, and therefore is a useless/unhelpful RVS vote.

No information can be gained from it.

Your own focus on Tclaw’s vote contradicts the bolded portion above. You are drawing information as to possible scum motivations for voting someone who can’t comment back.

--

VOTE: MoI for trying to limit our fun in RVS.

1. What allotment of cute antics are required until your fun quota is met?
2. How am I limiting your fun as you proceeded to drop 4 votes in what must be a fun fashion for you in said post?
3. Why are you limiting my fun (which involves playing the game)?

--

I've played with shotty-scum, and ended up defending him most of the way, stupidly enough, since I've also played with shotty-town. They're oddly mostly the same, at least from my experience.

So you’ve offered up that you will not be able to read Shotty while saying nothing about my serious vote on him. Why?

No, I still think lane is probably town. Just that one point is a little scummy, but the rest of it doesn't feel like it.

Noted for future reference by me dependant on Lane’s alignment.

--

Why do you say this? I wish you would not wish for death if you are in fact going to play a huge roll for the town

First and foremost it was a reaction test.

Did you stop to actually think about why I posted it or just react without considering?

oh god, did not see things were getting so serious already, just saw last post and skipped around

unvote

Did you post your first post (5 minutes before this one) before fully reading the thread? If so why?

Magna is gone, so can someone tell me why he would let everyone in on that he is very good at being town and inviting the scum to kill him? I do not understand this play in my limited abilities. if he's town i don't want scum to be killing the best players. and... why would

he say this unless he has no fear of being killed

? i'm concerned...

Regardless, if he is scum, he really would have no fear of being killed night 1 would he? esp if SK. so it would be a pretty safe thing to say.

This is the kind of reaction I was looking for. You’ve chosen to go down the MoI is scum WIFOMing route. I’ve bolded the part in the first statement where you want to subtly suggest I’m scum but aren’t willing to do more than be concerned.

The second is more clear but still still incorrect. Both Goons and the Serial Killer fear being killed.

1. There’s a Town controlled kill.
2. Cross-kills are possible.
3. A kill that doesn’t go through on a player (barring Roleblock schenanigans) is tantamount to a Cop guilty.

Please explain the scum motivation (even the Serial Killer) for directly drawing attention to myself in the first post. I am all ears.

obviously now seeing other people finding me scummy, bleh, i'll say what i really thought about magna's comment

1. You have one serious vote (Andrew) and a mild suggestion by Friend. The reaction here is not in proportion to the ‘suspicion’
2. Why would, as Town, you withhold your true thoughts in the first place if you thought I was scum? You wouldn’t. This has all the earmarks of a “Hey look over here – MoI is scum” move now that you are drawing attention yourself.

lol, if he gets killed night 1 alot, why draw attention to yourself and tell people that don't know that? now we're just gonna lose are best player?!?! well fuck...

Nice variation on “Oh no the Doc is dead” tell here. Why do you assume I’m the best player? DRK is a strong vet with about 8 months more experience than me.

lol how's that for emotion?

but seriously? you're high.

Scum reaction right there. Dismissiveness as opposed to questioning ('what specifically was the AtE Andrew and what is the etc?' would have been a logical Town response).

--

vote lane
he is so scummy.
ate etc

Hmmm … interesting.

Andrew I’ve never played with you but having read some of your games I know two things

1. You don’t explain very well.
2. You have better than expected guts instincts.

In this case you thoughts are lining up with mine ..

UNVOTE: Shotty
VOTE: Lane

[DemonHybrid]

Friend has already explained it wasn’t. My question – why would you think it was? It was pretty clear from the context (Lane using multiple exclamation points).

I wasn't exactly sure. Like I said, there have been games where I've voted for confirmation posts before and have seen others do it as well, so I had to double check.

Your own focus on Tclaw’s vote contradicts the bolded portion above. You are drawing information as to possible scum motivations for voting someone who can’t comment back.

My point is that TC or anyone else couldn't have gotten any information from him voting Escho. I didn't say anything about anyone getting information from TC, so it's a different point altogether.

Thank you for expanding on andrew's point, I was trying to figure out what the hell he was saying, and what you said made perfect sense.

Unvote, Vote: Lane

. MoI made a couple of brilliant points, supplemented and pre-emptively found by Friend.

[DeathRowKitty]

OH GAWD, IT'S A WALL. HIDE YO WIFE, HIDE YO KIDS, HIDE YO HUSBAND CUZ MAGNA'S RAPIN' ALL DA SCUMZ OUT HERE...except I disagree with his conclusion on lane entirely.

It seems like you're getting lost in trying to find motivation where there's only mindset. Then again, it's just as likely I'm actually completely out of my mind, so I should stop talking. Or typing. Or both.

Really? That’s interesting.

1. Did you not fully review all the role-pms upon the game starting to gather information? I did. From doing so I learned that scum have Daychat so I abandoned a line of thought I had about Friend being possible Goon for being late to confirm while being active elsewhere on site.
2. You directly quoted Shotty saying “DH is the SK”. You didn’t notice him referring to the SK then?

I read the roles before signing up for the game, but that's pretty much it. I kind of /in'ed for 6 games in one day and 5 of them started within a 2 day span iirc. Still getting my bearings as to which is which. (Yes, I know/am always aware of my role/alignment in all of them >.>)

As for reading role PMs...well, I probably would have at least considered it if they weren't all in spoilers. I'm actually kind of surprised mafia have day talk, considering only one of them is given the role of the mafia night kill.

I probably should have realized something when I quoted shotty's sk line, but I just skimmed over it as an in-joke.

[tclawren]

MoI said

: Why would you keep it in your database if you are unsure if it is true (which is inferred by your question)?

Do you not read the thread? I’ve already told you I’m not in my first post.

If it was true, which it seems that it sometimes is, then it would be handy in future games. If it wasn't true, then I would simply forget it.

I guess I didn't realize that you implicitly said you weren't scum by essentially saying you weren't mafia nor the SK.

MoI said

:A preview edit is created when someone Previews their post and sees others have posted while they were drafting. Responses are then edited in … thus the term Preview edit.

It wasn’t a question but an observation.

I knew what a preview edit was but I wasn't sure exactly what this particular one meant. Thanks for clarifying.


As for Lane, the post that is most troublesome for me is this one at the end #52

Lane said

: after all that, i REALLY do not know where to go with any of it

It always seems scummy to me when people go off on huge tangents like this one and basically say "But I don't know what this means. It's up to you guys to do something with this information." That said Lane already has 3 votes and I really don't want to keep pushing on this bandwagon.

Also I still want Shotty to realize that what he said was suspicious. So I will vote for him at least until he comes back.
VOTE: Shotty

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you think it's bad for someone you find suspicious to get to 4 votes?

[tclawren]

No. However, I think at this point in the game my suspicions on him are not enough to put him past halfway to the gallows. Add that to the existence of an another suspicious person in the game and my decision becomes a whole lot easier.

[Twistedspoon]

hey guys, glad to meet you all

I've played with DH and TC before, but I'm glad to meet all the rest of you.
Anyways, the first thing that hit a bad chord with me when I was catching up was this

Ha! I forgot there was an sk in this game.

distancing yourself from the SK eh? It looks like MoI has already covered it, but I'm just saying it hit a bad note with me too when I first read it this morning.

lane's looking a potential scum with a potential wagon to me. I can see both town and non-town hopping onto it at some point. However I do believe that some good points were brought up and lane looks rather scummy, especially this early in the game.
First impressions eh?

For crying out loud it's RVs, I thought these were supposed to be fun. Well, whatever.
VOTE: Magna

the scum want you to have fun :/
it distracts you from hunting them

[pappums rat]

hey everyone, it looks like i have played with alot of yous guys before, so hello again.

while i can see moi's points against lane, i think it is more likely that it is because lane is new and that is why his posts sound the way they do. i also found magna's 'you should kill me tonight' post a bit off, but that may be because of dgb's repeated talk of a nk on herself in 1086. ever since that game i get suspicious when people start talking about being nk'ed.

vote demon hybrid

[tclawren]

Pappums said

: hey everyone, it looks like i have played with alot of yous guys before, so hello again.

while i can see moi's points against lane, i think it is more likely that it is because lane is new and that is why his posts sound the way they do. i also found magna's 'you should kill me tonight' post a bit off, but that may be because of dgb's repeated talk of a nk on herself in 1086. ever since that game i get suspicious when people start talking about being nk'ed.

vote demon hybrid

Why the vote on DH?

[Twistedspoon]

while i can see moi's points against lane, i think it is more likely that it is because lane is new and that is why his posts sound the way they do.

:/

new to the site maybe
new to mafia we don't know.

I doubt a player new to mafia would jump into a setup like this without any experience or newbie games behind them.

[lane0168]

-if moi is scum, you are all royally butt fucked. I can see why he gets killed night 1, i feel he should probably get lynched day 1 in just as many games. If he is good at town he is good at scum. I would be terrified of him regardless of my alignment.

@tcl, i did not mean its up to your guys to decide. i simply meant i do not have enough information to vote for moi just for that

@moi

Noted for future reference by me dependant on Lane’s alignment.

Why are you voting for me if you are not SURE of my alignment?

Lane wrote:
Why do you say this? I wish you would not wish for death if you are in fact going to play a huge roll for the town

First and foremost it was a reaction test.

Did you stop to actually think about why I posted it or just react without considering?

Not extensively. That is the reason for the first part. The part preceding the "?"

Lane wrote:
oh god, did not see things were getting so serious already, just saw last post and skipped around

unvote

Did you post your first post (5 minutes before this one) before fully reading the thread? If so why?

Yes, I "did not see things were getting so serious". I began the post responding to you if you recall. I copy pasted that first part. Then was going to see if there was anything else to add. I noticed the post above me and got distracted and thought I'd have a little fun with friend. my kind of fun. not your kind of fun.

he really would have no fear of being killed night 1 would he? esp if SK

I say this because I thought that SK has one shot night kill immunity. So SK has no fear of being killed night 1, as i understand it. And mafia's odds of living through night 1, if not lynched day 1, are quite high.

Scum motivation imo? Well... establish yourself as one of the best players so people will immediately be on your side. I feel your style of play is to get peopel to fear you and hence go with whatever you say. if they say something contradictory, they will be castrated. And that would be what i see for motivation. people have said you get killed night 1 a lot. why do you not get killed day 1 a lot? you MUST be scum at SOME point right?

Please explain still the town motivation of your comment, if you'll only gonna be good for day 1? are you going to give all of us town who the mafia is on that one day? cause hey man, it'd really be nice to have someone as good as you along throughout to help.

Lane wrote:
obviously now seeing other people finding me scummy, bleh, i'll say what i really thought about magna's comment

1. You have one serious vote (Andrew) and a mild suggestion by Friend. The reaction here is not in proportion to the ‘suspicion’
2. Why would, as Town, you withhold your true thoughts in the first place if you thought I was scum? You wouldn’t. This has all the earmarks of a “Hey look over here – MoI is scum” move now that you are drawing attention yourself.

1) what was my reaction? bleh? is that an excess amount of rage, sorrow, or joy? I am not seeing the improportion here. as you have stated, it was only one serious vote, and what Friend said. I do not see "bleh" to be out of proportion
2) Its in the first three pages and i'm saying what i think. AS SOON AS I DO you tell me its scummy. why the fuck woudl i NOT hold back thoughts?

Lane wrote:
lol how's that for emotion?

but seriously? you're high.

[/quote="moi"]Scum reaction right there. Dismissiveness as opposed to questioning ('what specifically was the AtE Andrew and what is the etc?' would have been a logical Town response).

Do you not read the posts fully before you respond? if not, why? If you read the post before mine, the question as already been asked. Also dismissive because that was a FAR stretch to say i was appealing to emotion.

1)moi has sure asked a lot of questions, positioning himself PERFECTLY as an authority figure. Nobody seems to want to question him. As long as he can keep the attention on everyone else, and keep them answering questions, he is headed to a flawless victory
2)all he has done is ask a bunch of questions, even curious as to how much fun sing likes
3)he has come to an absolute crap and wrong conclusion in voting me.
4)nobody wants to question him because he is a good player and will get ripped apart for even trying
5)whats this "oh no the doc is dead" thing? i said well fuck about losing our best player??

[DeathRowKitty]

After further thought, I might be willing to change my mind on tcl. I still think lane is town though, in addition to Friend.

[lane0168]

*thanks drk. i feel you're a real asset to the team, and life would be a bit darker without you* (positivity inserted(thats not what she said))

[Twistedspoon]

*thanks drk. i feel you're a real asset to the team, and life would be a bit darker without you* (positivity inserted(thats not what she said))

yeah, that's blatant buddying if i ever saw it

It's seriously not doing you any favours

[MagnaofIllusion]

OH GAWD, IT'S A WALL. HIDE YO WIFE, HIDE YO KIDS, HIDE YO HUSBAND CUZ MAGNA'S RAPIN' ALL DA SCUMZ OUT HERE...except I disagree with his conclusion on lane entirely.

Aside from some extraneous All-Caps involving your dislike of wall posts I’d like some more information about this disagreement.

What points of my case on Lane do you specifically disagree with?

It seems like you're getting lost in trying to find motivation where there's only mindset.

Can you explain the difference and why one is valid scum-hunting but the other isn’t please?

I'm actually kind of surprised mafia have day talk, considering only

one of them is given the role of the mafia night kill

.

Can you explain the bolded because you lost me completely in the undergrowth there …

--

Also I still want Shotty to realize that what he said was suspicious. So I will vote for him at least until he comes back.
VOTE: Shotty

He posted only twice at 15 and 17. Every single one of your posts aside from your confirm came after his posts, yet this is the first time you’ve even written his name.

When did his play suddenly become suspect to you?

--

@Twisted – 65

shows some suspicions of both DRK and Lane yet you don’t place a vote. Why?

--

@Pappums – 66

shows some suspicions of both Lan and myself yet you place a vote on Demon Hybrid who you don’t even mention. Why?

--

Why are you voting for me if you are not SURE of my alignment?

Because as Town I can never be SURE of anyone’s alignment other than my own. Have you played Mafia before?

You play is scummy enough for me to vote and pursue you at this stage of the game. Scum can and do get caught in the first 3 pages of games.

And mafia's odds of living through night 1, if not lynched day 1, are quite high.

Explain why the Mafia’s odds of living through the night are ‘quite’ high if not lynched? I’d like some support for your assertion.

Scum motivation imo? Well... establish yourself as one of the best players so people will immediately be on your side. I feel your style of play is to get peopel to fear you and hence go with whatever you say. if they say something contradictory, they will be castrated. And that would be what i see for motivation. people have said you get killed night 1 a lot. why do you not get killed day 1 a lot? you MUST be scum at SOME point right?

Once again establishing myself as ‘the best player’ does me no good from a scum-perspective because regardless there is another Anti-Town faction that would be motivated to remove me since you say I am so influential. Thus that motivation makes zero sense.

Please explain still the town motivation of your comment, if you'll only gonna be good for day 1? are you going to give all of us town who the mafia is on that one day? cause hey man, it'd really be nice to have someone as good as you along throughout to help.

Sorry, I’m not going to currently. If it benefits Town to disclose it down the line I will. If not in the post game.

1) what was my reaction? bleh? is that an excess amount of rage, sorrow, or joy? I am not seeing the improportion here. as you have stated, it was only one serious vote, and what Friend said. I do not see "bleh" to be out of proportion

That you even felt the need to mention you were being suspected at all and thus have to ‘change your play’ is a reaction above and beyond the norm. You admit yourself the suspicion on you is minimal.

2) Its in the first three pages and i'm saying what i think. AS SOON AS I DO you tell me its scummy. why the fuck woudl i NOT hold back thoughts?

You’ve dodge the question. Why wouldn’t you immediately say your suspicions when you first had them? Once again they only came out because “now seeing other people finding me scummy”.

Do you not read the posts fully before you respond? if not, why? If you read the post before mine, the question as already been asked. Also dismissive because that was a FAR stretch to say i was appealing to emotion.

I do read them. Your point? Just because Demons asks Andrew a question doesn’t have anything to do with your reaction.

You don’t think the phrase “but seriously? you're high.” is anything but dismissive?

[Twistedspoon]

@Twisted – 65

shows some suspicions of both DRK and Lane yet you don’t place a vote. Why?

I'll attribute that to my playstyle.

i tend to operate on my own '3 strikes' policy

after 3 scummy things I'll place a vote. I've only counted role distancing from DRK, although lane is getting rather close to a vote from me after that piece of buddying up to DRK