Newbie 1079: Feed the Lynch Mob (Game Over)

[pandabear]

Hello everyone, looking forward to my first game.

VOTE: tarsonisocelot

for last confirm (and to take the hit for the two before him taking forever...)

[pandabear]

Am I Mafia or am I not? I ain't tellin' youse guys!

If you freeze wash water, it makes gray ice. And I hate doing laundry!

VOTE: GrayICE

I distrust your hat.

I distrust the moustache...

@tarsonisocelot: avatar please!

[pandabear]

But for now,

Vote: pandabear

.
Everyone else's RVS votes were more joking and playful, but yours seemed serious. Was it? If so, why do you believe confirmation times are directly related with whether someone's scum or not?

No, the vote itself was random but was linked to the fact that I was just venting out my slight frustration with the long confirm time to start (which I cannot blame solely on tars because he was replacing the two players prior to him who did not respond).

[pandabear]

1) This is my first game.
2) 20 years old
3) I would rather pull scum because it seems more interesting and exciting to win through trickery and deception but I want to learn how to be a good townie as well.
4.) I really do not have any firm scum-reads, but I do have a finger of suspicious on King of Harolds because, though the RVS was just playful banters, he seemed to try a little harder to start some kind of wagon by making two different votes on page 1. Then again, maybe he is just a proactive town trying to start any kind of action.

unvote
FOS: King of Harolds

[pandabear]

EST here as well.

[pandabear]

@Sn1pe29 My excitement to start was for the fact that this is my first game, so I was excited to start regardless what I pulled.
--
I too am still suspicious of King of Harolds because he seems to do the most suspicious actions so far:

First, he RVS votes GreyIce and then, after Traveller is RVSed, he is the first to jump bandwagon and switch votes to Traveller. Now at this point, I thought you were trying to start action and "test" Traveller to see if he really is suspicious when put on a potential bandwagon spot.

Unvote

I have recently learned that I have some Sicilian friends who are not Mafiosi. You're out of this for now, Traveller...


4) I don't have any strong suspicions at all right now, but I have a slight one on Nachomamma. I know we should be getting serious, but he pulled out of RVS a little too early for my tastes. RVS is useful for getting some offbeat info in. But it's small.

Seeing as the bandwagon was going to be unsuccessful, KoH tries for another player, this time the IC. Now, prior to this, Nacho votes on KoH. So he OMGUSed--without realizing it?

@Grey: Ha, I barely even noticed I had OMGUSed until now. Of course you don't really have a reason to believe me on that one, but I really didn't.

At first I was fine with this, I assumed he just skimmed over Nacho's post since it was so short, but town or scum (more in the case you are scum) isn't it pretty obvious to notice when they are voted by someone, especially since it is in bolded text? His "suspicion" on Nacho seemed like a defensive OMGUS move and an offensive move to try and put the suspicion on the stronger player and keep himself out of Nacho's and everyone's eyes.

Traveller's behavior is peaking my interest. Keeping an eye on him, anyways.

Now I may post later about Traveller (I think he is too nonchalant about his jokes of being scum to be actual scum), but either KoH has a really strong read on Traveller or he is switching just to try and cover for his slip-up of not realizing his OMGUS on Nacho and also building a misleading case on someone else.

vote: King of Harolds

[pandabear]

@bristep: regardless if he was L-2 prior to my post, I had a FOS on him in the first place. I figured you or Nacho would unvote anyways to thoroughly analyze my post and really consider if KoH should be lynched, but I still stand that KoH seems scummiest out of anyone. The fact that you would vote me because of my analysis makes it seem as though maybe you are scum with KoH or you are trying to hinder any kind of scum-hunting from happening.

[pandabear]

Then I would think if KoH didn't pull scum, the person with the hammer vote must be suspicious. But I see your point, I have made pretty weak reasoning, I just did not have much to go off of and thought that KoH really had the most suspicious behavior out of all the limited posts that we have seen from everyone so far.

[pandabear]

Sn1pe29, I don't get why you are not voting for me if you suspect me. It seems like you are trying to lurk and/or bandwagon behind the scenes and that seems pretty scummy.

[pandabear]

Yeah maybe KoH does have an aggressive playstyle. Nacho seems just as aggressive at this point, but it seems like he's just interrogating everyone by way of voting them. Hmm well no has done the same to him so I'll be the one to initiate:

unvote. vote: Nachomamma8

[pandabear]

Both my votes on KoH and Nacho were my way of increasing activity and hearing from everyone but I realized some of them were rash and served little purpose. But there's no point of trying to backtrack or make excuses because that'll make me look more scum. Seeing as I'm already L-2, I'll just say that Snipe is now looking the most suspicious because he's realized that a formidable bandwagon may start to form behind me, and--without much activity--posts his vote on me backing on both Grey, nacho, and bristep's analysis on me. That seems very scummy to me.

unvote. vote: Sn1pe29

[pandabear]

Wow this is really getting nowhere...I agree with GreyICE at this point, I'd rather see Nacho or even anyone L-1 then hammer Sn1pe or me to move on and town do something productive D2 then sit around waiting for a wagon to finish and have scums lurking happily behind our posts. I'll claim VI for trying to be overly and ignorantly aggressive in my first game. But my vote stays on Sn1pe because in my point of view, he is still the scummiest at this point.

[pandabear]

Everything suspicious about Sn1pe29 could be attributed to either newb-town or to newb-scum, it just gave me more of a newb-scum impression.

Post 107 was my first clue that Sn1 was town. Being unsure what to look for is a newb-town response to the question of why they weren't scumhunting. Giving three town-reads doesn't strike me as something mafia would do. I know there was some prompting from Nacho, but Sn1 didn't seem too reluctant to give that out.

Post 113 is odd because suddenly there's a distinction between bristep after Sn1 had previously put him together with Thil and tars, but I don't see that as scummy; in fact, it adds to my point about post 107. The issue of placing a vote after it wouldn't be an L-1 vote also gives me a gut town impression.

Finally, Sn1pe's most recent posts. If they were Mafia in this situation they should claim a PR, or consider self-hammering to prevent a townie from doing it. I acknowledge your point about post 136, but I'm still undecided.

Besides, if Sn1 is mafia and doesn't self-vote, his partner may hammer him if they aren't already on his wagon. I'm okay with that. All things considered, I see no harm in my assuming for now that he is town.

In Post107, I see more of a desperation in Sn1pe of Nacho getting off his back than a reluctance to answer his question.

But i agree with you Hero that post 144 is peculiar. I don't know what to make of it because I have not had much experience with what the common reads from responses of people on the D1 L-1 hotspot. But Grey also pointed this out which I was about to mention: I posted a similar "final defense." Either that's a town tell from both of us, or he's riding off of my argument again.

I think most of us who are voting on Sn1pe agrees that he has had little of his OWN scumhunting...He can make all the town-reading he wants, but if in a scum's point of view, that would not be very hard, would it? I don't care if he votes for me, but at least have your own reason to do so rather than riding off of other people's arguments. Even acknowledging their arguments as making sense would be a little less suspicious but I do not see him even doing that. A reluctancy to scumhunt or using the "i don't know what to look for" excuse (though I have the same sentiment) seems very scummy.

[pandabear]

But Grey also pointed this out which I was about to mention: I posted a similar "final defense." Either that's a town tell from both of us, or he's riding off of my argument again.

What do you think it was, in your judgement?

After reading it over again, it seems he was way too nonchalant for scum but then again, even for town. It fits that he has almost given up at L-1 and is just saying this.

I know I should be fluid with my analysis of scum and town reads as well, but I cannot help but think that this fits with his past habits of mirroring others' posts. It seemed to have worked last time to get people off of his back, and it may have actually worked this time as well. So my opinion of him as scum has diminished only a little, but I think he's still more scummy than everyone else so far.

[pandabear]

Popping in to mention 2 things:

1. We're running low on time. I think that Sn1pe29 is town, but we need to lynch someone before the deadline hits. I'll let Nacho or Grey explain why, but it's strongly accepted by the community that letting a day end without lynching is usually bad, especially on day 1. In this particular example, there's a chance Sn1 is scum, and also, knowing his alignment will help us to figure out the people who are trying to lynch him. So eventually I will place the hammer vote if no other options rise.

2. I'm becoming suspicious of Nacho. At the beginning of the day, he was acting the way I would expect a good townie to act, using his vote and asking questions to investigate people. But he's stopped doing that. At some point he settled on Sn1pe29. The only reason he gave at the time was that Sn1 unvoted in post 78, and this didn't help the town. Since then he has neither built any type of case on Sn1, nor moved on. I can understand Nacho not particularly thinking that Sn1 is town, but thinking that Sn1 is scum and being ready to lynch him... I don't buy that. If Nacho did believe Sn1 was scum, I'd expect to hear more about that from him.
Nacho's last post doesn't impress me either. I can't see any reason for Nacho to criticize me for answering some questions, even if they were no longer important. Also, I raised several valid points in defense of Sn1. In response Nacho chose one and called it weak because scum don't always act optimally. It sounds to me like Nacho is saying that I'm right (even on that one "weak" point,) but since it's not 100% conclusive, he wants to dismiss it. The scum angle here is this: if Nacho is scum, I'm interrupting his desired mislynch, and cutting into his credibility. I can't prove that Sn1 is town (unless the lynch is carried out), but if there are reasons to suspect it, then we should reconsider the otherwise inevitable lynch.

vote: Nachomomma8

I see your point here. I know I raised some suspicion for Sn1pe, but I can't be sure at all he's scum even though I believe in my reasoning. Nacho, are you still on the Sn1pe bandwagon for specific reasons like me or do you just want to hurry up and lynch someone d1?

[pandabear]

oh geez, we still have no consensus...I will be reading posts tomorrow afternoon and re-vote if need be but I'll be keeping my vote for now

[pandabear]

I don't have time to reread everything right now but this weekend I will. As for now, I think we should try and analyze votes on the Sn1pe wagon since it was easy for scums to follow on it with Sn1pe's lurky/passiveness.

Okay, Hero, I've looked at the wagon. If I had to choose the laziest vote on it, it'd be Tarsonis.

However I'm not inclined to look there because, as I said, I think both wagons are town. Panda/Sn1pe was (if my reads are correct) town/town, and the Nacho wagon was little better, so I think there was a lot of sholder-shrugging from the scum.

If I had to choose the worst vote, overall, it's Thil13. He seemed deliberately uninterested in having his vote on any viable lynch wagon yesterday. And that Traveller vote was miserable. Does anyone really think he's scum?

I FOS tarsonis too but that first statement by GreyICE seemed really scummy. Saying tarsonis is the laziest vote on the wagon and then finding a reason to vote Thil seems fishy to me. Of course, GreyICE has been very townie so far, but something about that statement is off from his posts so far (again, I need to reread and will change my opinion later if need be).

@GreyICE why did you vote Thil13 and not tarsonis? If Thil13 was uninterested for a lynch wagon, does not necessarily mean he's scummy (in addition to the fact that Sn1pe flipped town)?

Also @everyone, I know we kind of talked about PRs before, but is it generally the case that PRs come out day3 to lead or now? And if not I guess we should assume there may not be PRs?

[pandabear]

As for what I learned from competing bandwagons - I learned that there was a last second push towards you, after the Panda wagon collapsed. I assumed it was a last-ditch attempt to save a scumbuddy yesterday, but that apparently wasn't the case.

FWIW, if I had been scum with Sn1, I probably wouldn't have tried to save him.
Of course, I did figure that if Sn1 flipped scum, I probably would have been the most likely D2 lynch, but since 1 scum would be gone already, we'd be far enough ahead that it was worth the risk.
I wanted to prevent Sn1 from being lynched becauase I thought he was town. Nacho, I didn't think was town.

@Hero:

Sorry about the hand! If you feel up to a quicky - whose most likely to be Nacho's partner (since you seem convinced of his scumminess)?

I had you or Tars in mind during the night, but you're not a high-likelihood scum. Tarson, I'm going to hold off comment on her for now. But the early comment D2 was odd.
Thil is low probability; he might have taken the opportunity to hammer Sn1 yesterday to stop the Nacho wagon from happening if they were scum together.
Traveller is unlikely given the support for lynching him.
Haven't thought much about panda since I voted Nacho. I probably should have. It's interesting that he was very suspicious of Nacho to the point that I was defending Nacho's play fom panda; until I voted Nacho, then he didn't do much. Haven't read back very far to investigate this.

So, if Nacho is scum, Panda looks worst.

I think your top line is a WIFOM...maybe I am misusing it, but I don't think saying that you wouldn't have saved Sn1pe had he been scum doesn't save yourself from possibly being scum regardless of what he flipped.

For some reason I am not that convinced Thil13 is scum...especially because I messed up with my lurk read on Sn1pe D1 and because if he does happen to be scum, I think it'd be better if we try and take out his partner and see if we can find connections.

Also, I think traveller is town too.

So now, I want to limit my FOS to Hero, Nacho, tar and possibly ICE. @ICE, I know you have a townread on me, but that alone is not a townread for you in my point of view.

@Hero why do you think I'm partners with Nacho if he indeed is scum? I layed off him because I actually suspected Sn1pe. You trying to make connections out of really nothing significant seems scummy.

I will place a vote among the 4 when I find more scummy reads.

[pandabear]

Eh, while I don't have any better ideas of my own might as weel put some pressure on thil13.
VOTE: thil13
I'm null on them at present and would like some more activity.

okay after reviewing my FOS I think this^ post is scummy. Plus, tars never followed it up with anything that seemed towny, the whole unrelated post about mafia roles and weak followup reasoning to try and justify the thil13 vote (note: the reasoning came AFTER the vote) just didnt seem right.

vote: tarsonisoscelot

[pandabear]

got the prod, will post again after classes

[pandabear]

Let's get this show on the roaddddd

unvote

FOS on Nacho, but i won't L-1 yet.

Where are you IC?!

[pandabear]

So he's scum with Hero and shows up for one post in like the past five eons to kick dirt at his partner for not doing anything, then floats off again?

It'd explain Hero's reaction, I suppose, but that isn't even bad scumplay, that isn't even bad play, that'd be completely inexplicable.

Thil/hero doesn't seem right. Hero I don't see with Tars, which would leave just Panda (or Traveller, but...NO). And that'd make me wrong on my town read. Which would literally make me a sad panda if I unvoted a scum wagon for a town wagon because of a town tell.

Meh, I'm gonna wait for response. If it resembles 'THAT'S JUST OMGUS' though...

I don't know how you put me with his partner when I pointed out Herod's WIFOM that Nacho mentions in his case.

Well, i'm glad to hear from Nacho, my "vote (well FOS because I wasn't going to L-1) to gain information" finally worked

Regardless, I say we lynch Herod and depending on his flip we can try and find his partner. (i don't think it's traveller either). If he's not scum, then my FOS is heavily placed on Nacho and Grey.

As for thil, he is really #1 scummy but I think Herod's lynch will give us more information on that.

vote: Herodotus

[pandabear]

wow this reads like a power role and a counter claim battle...
lets hope one of them is scum.
my vote stays for now but I'm waiting for Hero's response

[pandabear]

c) panda: same as you, or maybe this:

Either that's a town tell from both of us, or he's riding off of my argument again.

7. His ISO 20 (That's his post # 20 when using "display posts by user: pandabear") is odd, saying he wants to get the show on the road and unvoting. He moved on from Tarsonis without saying why. Regarding his vote for me, he switched from Nacho to me and apparently wants to lynch me for information. He thinks Thil is scummiest but is doing nothing about that. Looks bad.

LOL I could care less what "looks bad," I'm trying to get the scums as much as you guys are. I said I found thil scummy so let's try and see if we can find connections, but after that phase I now have the impression that one of you two must be scum. So now my plan is to see who one of your partner may be, but that comes after deciding who we think is more scummy between you are nacho.

I said I was waiting for your response anyways so as of now I don't have a 100% lynch vote yet...
so

unvote

[pandabear]

lol expert scum hunter ftw

tars, where are thou?

[pandabear]

@ICE: I got your back bro

vote: Nacho

That is L-1, ya?

[pandabear]

alright guys, i'm FINALLY done with finals...
will be doing what I can to try and be more active
so I guess we should wait for all of the replacements opinions?

Nacho seems like he has given in as being scum lol

[pandabear]

hmm I don't get the late claim either...anybody could have quickhammered you without you outing a confirmed townie, what's with that?

Also, do we typically see if there's a counter claim or do mafias usually not do that in forum format? I've been playing a lot of IRL chat mafia and that's the case usually for scums to do but I wasn't sure here.

If not, then we should hurry up and lynch someone else.

@glass I thought he was really scummy because given his posts after Hero's analysis, Nacho has been noticeably different in the way he responds/posts. It just felt like he was surfacing by trying to answer whatever questions he can without really defending himself too hard. But I guess it all doesn't matter if he's actual cop.

unvote

[pandabear]

@Nacho: Oh, never mind, just saw your response to glass

[pandabear]

I trust the experienced players. It did seem fishy that he would claim so late. If he does flip scum, does his inno on tars mean anything? Or is that just a WIFOM attempt by Nacho to keep us confused?

Well, here's DA HAMMA

vote: Nachomamm8

[pandabear]

not a cop here, but I hope we do have a cop, because that would mean we also have a doc.

If cop is alive it may be auto-win for town

[pandabear]

lol Grey the suspense really got me there

well it's still town favored, no? We have 2 mislynches.

My #1 suspicion is on Tars. She was the only one reluctant to go Nacho

Welcome... I don't really like this game, I think I won't be doing anymore newbie games, it's just too monotonous for me.

Everything I said previously stands firm, but I am willing to give Hero a chance and go with his logic. If Nacho flips town, I will be even more suspicious of Hero.

VOTE: Nacho

I pray Nacho flips scum, because I want you dead before LyLo, and somehow I think the scumteam won't do it.

Can we please lynch him today? I'm still trying to figure out the Hero/Nacho stuff but thil13 is scummier than both.

Thil13: Since you don't seem to even want to contribute, the most pro-town thing you could do now is to replace out.

Also, if thil13 is the scum I think he is and not just bad town then this post would suggest that both Nacho and Hero are town.

@tars: why did you want to push the thil13 lynch so badly?


As for thil13, I don't think he's mafia because of this post:

Welcome... I don't really like this game, I think I won't be doing anymore newbie games, it's just too monotonous for me.

Everything I said previously stands firm, but I am willing to give Hero a chance and go with his logic. If Nacho flips town, I will be even more suspicious of Hero.

VOTE: Nacho

If thil13 was Nacho's partner, he would not have L-1ed Nacho so nonchalantly that day. And this post makes me think he was mostly bored because he was town, not scum.


Grey and Traveller(/Glass) gave townreads from me, and their actions yesterday regarding their votes on Nacho affirmed it.

[pandabear]

EWODP forgot my

vote: tarsonisocelot

[pandabear]

Right, thil13 was very difficult to read prior to Voided, but I still think he's town

@grey: but regarding what Nacho did with tars, I still think it's WIFOM because you know about it and thus he may have expected you to dismiss the possibility that tars was actually Nacho's partner...
@tars: I don't think Traveller necessarily meant vote tallies, just that you never gave Nacho a vote during bandwagons or after convincing arguments by others. RVS vote doesn't really count

[pandabear]

K. I understand.

my question is, WHY DID YOU NOT DIE, ICE?

you are indeed the closest thing to an IC among us and very experienced, so scum should have killed you. But seeing you alive and TRAVELLER (least likely person I thought would be NKed) dead is really confusing right now.

As for Thil/Void, Thil WAS indeed scummy as you mentioned last day. However, my point stands with him that him saying replacement and voting Nacho knowingly as his mafia partner would be too much of a gamethrowing/jerk move even for a bored, frustrated player. I had a town read on Thil since then, and Void has continued to give me a town read.

so my FOS is on ICE (i won't vote yet)

[pandabear]

okay, I reread, and have changed my mind. My FOS is now on Voidedmafia. GreyICE just seemed way more town during the Nacho lynch and every post I've reread with him just said "pro-town." (I would quote the important ones but maybe later since it's late). I liked how he L-2 voted Nacho and I also liked how he opened up the next day asking for cop. That was a very pro-town move and one that would have probably resulted in town win if cop was there (because doc would have been there also). Now, he may also be WIFOM-ing us by being overly pro-town the whole game, but I doubt it, since if he was scum, he wouldn't have pushed Nacho's lynch so hard. I know there's bussing, but that bus could have been easily avoided and flipped to Hero instead of Nacho. However, Grey led the charge, but thil, on the other hand, was pretty passive the whole game.

Voidedmafia gives off a scum vibe because he did not vote back after Nacho claimed cop. Did you really think he was cop?

I mean honestly, it's 50/50 but I think it's leaning more towards Void now.

Won't vote yet, I want to hear from you guys again.

[pandabear]

K Voided, thats true.

Well could you both answer this question: if you were scum, why would you kill Traveller?

Also, can you guys put a fos on someone?

[pandabear]

While I agree with the fact that the vote-flopping was bad, but Panda's change to Nacho with just as little reasoning would have to be just as bad.

I've been doing this whether my vote was one a scum or not and I agreed with Hero's analysis on Nacho. Right now, I've been rereading both of your posts and have been trying to find reasons to believe GreyIce is scum and Thil/Voided is not, but I really can't. There was a point where Grey, early on, really supported Nacho, because he is IC and giving him a "town-read" to start scum hunting. But, his opinion changed after hearing from Hero, and the timing of his change did not seem like bussing to me. As for Thil, I can't find any posts that give him any town cred. He lurks til he's prodded about 3 times, then posts meaningless filler to just hide back into lurking mode again. As for you, Voided, I understand that you were away IRL during our Nacho vote, but part of me wants to think that your attempt at reads during our wagon on Nacho was just an attempt to try and start a different wagon on someone more scummy.

And, the fact that Grey's not dead has been really irking me, but I think Voided you decided to kill Traveller instead because he may have had a strong FOS on you.

I want to ask, why did you think he thought it was you? It could have been any of us.

Oh yah, and Thil kept saying "Why me" every time someone pointed at him...and we know what that means: "WHY ME FRY ME"

I'm thinking of voting for you really soon, but I'm willing to hear your case to change my mind

[pandabear]

Panda, why did you trust me and Hero when we said to hammer the claimed cop? Your vote had been on hero, and you already said if Nacho flipped town you were going to be suspicious of both of us. Did it occur to you that if Nacho was town the scum would have known he was the real cop, and thus been quite happy to lynch him?

Also, do you think Nacho would defend a newbie scumbuddy on day 1 or push them?

What information would you have gained out of Hero's lynch?

1) I trusted you guys in the fact that more cases than not, a person put on a wagon that claims cop (during L-1) is scum. If he indeed was cop, then I'd definitely be suspicious of Hero and we'd probably have lynched him. I'd also be suspicious of you if Nacho was town. But he wasn't.

2) I don't know what Nacho would do, as this is my first game and Nacho seems to be a very good player so it's hard to know what his play style this game is. A Nacho-Thil/Void seems like he is distancing and pushing slightly, but avoids it by focusing more on other newbies like me and Sn1pe. But, a Nacho-GreyICE is almost the opposite in that you guys almost defended each other through the "Let's respect the IC and never ever lynch him D1" code.

[pandabear]

3) If we had lynched Hero, I would have definitely suspected Nacho.

[pandabear]

lol Voidedmafia make it a little harder for me.

I'm just the scum hammer king, huh?

vote: Voidedmafia

[pandabear]

haha great game.

Good job GreyICE. And also to everyone else as well. Sorry Voided, but you're right, everything was just framed towards you even if I had a hint of suspicion on Grey (i.e. he was still alive).