Newbie 1079: Feed the Lynch Mob (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 4.01

Not Voting (3) - GreyICE, pandabear, Voidedmafia

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, May 27, 2011, at 11:59 PM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

Flavor has been written for the Day 3 and Night 3 scenes.
There's a spiffy new countdown tag! It's in the OP.

[GreyICE]

Vote Count 1.03

King of Harolds (3) - Nachomamma8, Traveller, pandabear
pandabear (3) - thil13, bristep123, GreyICE
thil13 (1) - Sn1pe29
Traveller (1) - tarsonisocelot

Not Voting (1) - King of Harolds

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

pandabear (3) - bristep123, GreyICE, Sn1pe29
Sn1pe29 (3) - Nachomamma8, tarsonisocelot, pandabear
Traveller (2) - King of Harolds, thil13
King of Harolds (1) - Traveller

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.[/color]

These wagons are critical to understanding this game. At L-2, with the town generally apathetic enough that he might have been able to force it through, Nacho decided KoH(Hero) wasn't scum, and moved to Sn1pe. This is actually a strong

town

tell, and one of the reasons that I was reluctant to vote for him for so long. Why does scum care if KoH or Sn1pe gets lynched? He didn't force a claim out of KoH, so he wasn't PR hunting, he just decided someone probably wouldn't flip scum and tried to remove the wagon.

Four times in five, if not nine in ten, that's an action taken by town. Unfortunately, as I said to Hero, Nacho is probably in the top 10% of players on this site, so these actions are a lot more null flavored when he's doing them.

But if Panda is the partner, Nacho did them with his partner at L-2. That's pretty damn ballsy for Nacho. Definitely possible, but ballsy. And I really dislike how Thil voted for hero then flopped it to Nacho, it screams scum. So at the moment, I'm leaning towards Voided. But I'm going to do another reread, Nacho is nothing if not a calculated risk-taker, and there's probably instructions in the QT for what to do in a lot of situations - he would help his newbie partner.

[Voidedmafia]

While I agree with the fact that the vote-flopping was bad, but Panda's change to Nacho with just as little reasoning would have to be just as bad.

[pandabear]

While I agree with the fact that the vote-flopping was bad, but Panda's change to Nacho with just as little reasoning would have to be just as bad.

I've been doing this whether my vote was one a scum or not and I agreed with Hero's analysis on Nacho. Right now, I've been rereading both of your posts and have been trying to find reasons to believe GreyIce is scum and Thil/Voided is not, but I really can't. There was a point where Grey, early on, really supported Nacho, because he is IC and giving him a "town-read" to start scum hunting. But, his opinion changed after hearing from Hero, and the timing of his change did not seem like bussing to me. As for Thil, I can't find any posts that give him any town cred. He lurks til he's prodded about 3 times, then posts meaningless filler to just hide back into lurking mode again. As for you, Voided, I understand that you were away IRL during our Nacho vote, but part of me wants to think that your attempt at reads during our wagon on Nacho was just an attempt to try and start a different wagon on someone more scummy.

And, the fact that Grey's not dead has been really irking me, but I think Voided you decided to kill Traveller instead because he may have had a strong FOS on you.

I want to ask, why did you think he thought it was you? It could have been any of us.

Oh yah, and Thil kept saying "Why me" every time someone pointed at him...and we know what that means: "WHY ME FRY ME"

I'm thinking of voting for you really soon, but I'm willing to hear your case to change my mind

[Voidedmafia]

While I agree with the fact that the vote-flopping was bad, but Panda's change to Nacho with just as little reasoning would have to be just as bad.

I've been doing this whether my vote was one a scum or not and I agreed with Hero's analysis on Nacho.

Well, you sure didn't say as much when you actually voted for Nacho.

Right now, I've been rereading both of your posts and have been trying to find reasons to believe GreyIce is scum and Thil/Voided is not, but I really can't.

I would agree with you about how Thil wouldn't be town, but I can't really agree with him being scum either.

We both can definitely agree he was practically useless to the town, though.

There was a point where Grey, early on, really supported Nacho, because he is IC and giving him a "town-read" to start scum hunting. But, his opinion changed after hearing from Hero, and the timing of his change did not seem like bussing to me.

And why does the timing not make it seem like bussing?

As for Thil, I can't find any posts that give him any town cred. He lurks til he's prodded about 3 times, then posts meaningless filler to just hide back into lurking mode again.

Can't say I disagree with that. I would like to find SOMETHING that could put him in a bad light, but I really just can't.

As for you, Voided, I understand that you were away IRL during our Nacho vote, but part of me wants to think that your attempt at reads during our wagon on Nacho was just an attempt to try and start a different wagon on someone more scummy.

And so what if I was? I very well could have stumbled upon the other scum had I had the time to go over it entirely. Or I could've wound up believing Nacho was the scum after all.

And, the fact that Grey's not dead has been really irking me, but I think Voided you decided to kill Traveller instead because he may have had a strong FOS on you.

I also had a strong town read on Traveller as well. However, this can equally go onto ICE as well, who also had a very strong townread on Traveller, and it's equally as possible that Traveller would've had a FoS on you or Grey, but we'll never know since he's dead.

I want to ask, why did you think he thought it was you? It could have been any of us.

I was going off the the line "The newbie is taking the hammer and calling for a quicklynch", which I was assuming was for me. Based on what had happened, it seemed like, were I in Traveller's shoes, the dots were connecting towards me.

Oh yah, and Thil kept saying "Why me" every time someone pointed at him...and we know what that means: "WHY ME FRY ME"

Huh?

I'm thinking of voting for you really soon, but I'm willing to hear your case to change my mind

Personally, if you're waiting for a big, extravagant case on how Thil isn't as scummy as you're making him out to be, and that I'm the townie you don't want lynched, well, you'll have to wait for the former. For the latter, however, I could make a few points on that.

First off, I can't help but wonder why you would be wanting to think I would be going after another wagon when I hadn't even completed my re-read. Sure, from the looks of it I would've been going after KoH/Herod, but I didn't get to finish the re-read prior to Nacho's lynch, and D3 sorta ended before I could get anything done (Real life also got involved there (see: my birthday), too) in regards to that line of action. That, and I spent most of my time that day replying to GreyICE. Your concern is probably valid, but just too unfounded to be worth anything in my eyes.

Secondly, I've gone over Traveller's ISO. Through the 3 general reads he's given (by general, I mean of everyone currently alive at the time), Thil has only shown up as being potential scum once, in the 2nd of the reads. But even then, it was nothing definite, just the "leaning scum" read that most poeple give lurkers however, GreyICE has shown up twice as potential scum, in the 1st and 3rd reads. Though the 1st admittedly didn't have a lot behind it, the 3rd certainly had a slip behind it (in Traveller's eyes), which would lead me to think Traveller could have also had a FoS lined up for Grey as well. You're not in this boat, however, since he's listed you as probable/definite town in all three.

...I feel like I had more points to get across, but I've lost them. No doubt they'll come to me when I can't really put them down for you, but take these two as you will.

[GreyICE]

Panda, why did you trust me and Hero when we said to hammer the claimed cop? Your vote had been on hero, and you already said if Nacho flipped town you were going to be suspicious of both of us. Did it occur to you that if Nacho was town the scum would have known he was the real cop, and thus been quite happy to lynch him?

Also, do you think Nacho would defend a newbie scumbuddy on day 1 or push them?

What information would you have gained out of Hero's lynch?

You voted Nacho mid day 1, what made you change your vote?
(this is probably less important, since I've virtually never seen an IC lynched day 1, and I'm usually strongly against it)

@Voided: you said a lot of what Tarsonis did wasn't very town at all yesterday when you voted. What specifically did you see that wasn't very town?

Why did you think that Traveller suspected you?

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided: you said a lot of what Tarsonis did wasn't very town at all yesterday when you voted. What specifically did you see that wasn't very town?

...I've hit a brain fart trying to think of how I can put this. You may interpret this as "A HA! VM doesn't have anything against her for her vote!" But I still feel like my vote analysis and the things that both Traveller (about her never voting for Nacho AT ALL) and Panda (don't remember what he said about her) answered this.

Why did you think that Traveller suspected you?

Already answered above.

[GreyICE]

@Voided: you said a lot of what Tarsonis did wasn't very town at all yesterday when you voted. What specifically did you see that wasn't very town?

...I've hit a brain fart trying to think of how I can put this. You may interpret this as "A HA! VM doesn't have anything against her for her vote!" But I still feel like my vote analysis and the things that both Traveller (about her never voting for Nacho AT ALL) and Panda (don't remember what he said about her) answered this.

Alright. I admit this is me trying to have a bit of wagon discussion on the D3 wagon which we never got to have, and it's probably all WIFOM material, as the big question is answered (Tars is town).

Why did you think that Traveller suspected you?

Already answered above.

Yeah, we kind of crossposted a bit there. That makes sense. Although frankly none of Traveler's scumreads strike me as ultra-strong.

God I hate LyLo. The evidence keeps saying "Voided" and there's an annoying little voice in the back of my head saying "You're still alive and you thought Thil was scum and Panda was town since day 2..."

I need to reread Panda wagon again.

[pandabear]

Panda, why did you trust me and Hero when we said to hammer the claimed cop? Your vote had been on hero, and you already said if Nacho flipped town you were going to be suspicious of both of us. Did it occur to you that if Nacho was town the scum would have known he was the real cop, and thus been quite happy to lynch him?

Also, do you think Nacho would defend a newbie scumbuddy on day 1 or push them?

What information would you have gained out of Hero's lynch?

1) I trusted you guys in the fact that more cases than not, a person put on a wagon that claims cop (during L-1) is scum. If he indeed was cop, then I'd definitely be suspicious of Hero and we'd probably have lynched him. I'd also be suspicious of you if Nacho was town. But he wasn't.

2) I don't know what Nacho would do, as this is my first game and Nacho seems to be a very good player so it's hard to know what his play style this game is. A Nacho-Thil/Void seems like he is distancing and pushing slightly, but avoids it by focusing more on other newbies like me and Sn1pe. But, a Nacho-GreyICE is almost the opposite in that you guys almost defended each other through the "Let's respect the IC and never ever lynch him D1" code.

[pandabear]

3) If we had lynched Hero, I would have definitely suspected Nacho.

[GreyICE]

Panda, why did you trust me and Hero when we said to hammer the claimed cop? Your vote had been on hero, and you already said if Nacho flipped town you were going to be suspicious of both of us. Did it occur to you that if Nacho was town the scum would have known he was the real cop, and thus been quite happy to lynch him?

Also, do you think Nacho would defend a newbie scumbuddy on day 1 or push them?

What information would you have gained out of Hero's lynch?

1) I trusted you guys in the fact that more cases than not, a person put on a wagon that claims cop (during L-1) is scum. If he indeed was cop, then I'd definitely be suspicious of Hero and we'd probably have lynched him. I'd also be suspicious of you if Nacho was town. But he wasn't.

2) I don't know what Nacho would do, as this is my first game and Nacho seems to be a very good player so it's hard to know what his play style this game is. A Nacho-Thil/Void seems like he is distancing and pushing slightly, but avoids it by focusing more on other newbies like me and Sn1pe. But, a Nacho-GreyICE is almost the opposite in that you guys almost defended each other through the "Let's respect the IC and never ever lynch him D1" code.

Meh, Nacho knows better than to try and mislynch me day 1 in a newbie game

I hate self meta, but I'll do it here to defend myself on this point - I'm not lynching the IC day 1:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2750196

That's alignment

neutral

. I wouldn't as scum, I wouldn't as town, I wouldn't if he's my scumbuddy. I think it impacts the enjoyment and learning of the new players. Plus you're almost always losing a valuable resource to the town if you mislynch an IC.

[GreyICE]

Okay, I could write a long post about this, but I'm not going to because if I'm wrong I'll claim my lumps in the post game. This is what it boils down to:

It really depends on the extent to the town-claiming, in my opinion. The fact that I had to check back to find it tells me that tan's wasn't suspicious.

Right now, I would be OK lynching either snipe or panda. Both have seemed fairly suspicious to me up to this point compared to everyone else.

Could lynch either Panda OR Sn1pe.

I'd much rather cut off the head of the snake first, and meanwhile pray to mafia gods that thil will get involved or get replaced. There's still a chance he's town, and could have a nice big epiphany, or could be replaced by someone obvtown.

Suggests that we mislynch Hero over my push on Thil.

So Nacho doesn't care whether we lynch Panda or Sn1Pe, but he strongly feels that we should lynch Hero over Thil.

No more volumes on how scummy Thil has been. Voided is posting everywhere but here for three days now. And if Panda and Voided crossvote, I don't see myself hammering Panda.

Vote: VoidedMafia

/waits for Panda

[Voidedmafia]

Mainly because I'm not sure of what to say.

Let it be done, then.

[GreyICE]

You're supposed to at least crossvote because "I'm town and if someone is voting for me in 3 man LyLo, they're SCUM!"

Or try to convince me to lift my vote up before "that scummy Panda comes back to hammer!"



Though really Thil did play that badly

Heh, I wanted to move the wagon from Nacho to Thil day 2, that must have been so frustrating for Nacho.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 4.02

Voidedmafia (1) - GreyICE

Not Voting (2) - pandabear, Voidedmafia

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, May 27, 2011, at 11:59 PM EDT (UTC-4).[/area]

[pandabear]

lol Voidedmafia make it a little harder for me.

I'm just the scum hammer king, huh?

vote: Voidedmafia

[Equinox]

Vote Count 4.03

Voidedmafia (2) - GreyICE, pandabear

Not Voting (1) - Voidedmafia

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, May 27, 2011, at 11:59 PM EDT (UTC-4).[/area]

[Equinox]

...and then there were three.

They stood in Traveller's backyard, unsure of how to proceed. To the two townies remaining, it was unfathomable that one of them was part of the mafia. They'd known each other for so long, after all. Still, the fact that they had not found any incriminating evidence in Traveller's house meant that it was down to the three of them, and they had to decide carefully. The worst part of it all was that this day was the last; the wrong move meant the end of their town as they knew it. Four days was all the time they were allowed, yet it felt like an eternity had passed.

Though no one wanted to do it, the day's business had to be carried out. Someone had to die today for the previous night's murder. As the day wore on, the three of them looked at each other suspiciously. The situation wasn't right; that much, they knew. GreyICE had managed to survive the last three nights untouched, and Voidedmafia had that nervous aura about him that caused the other two to wonder. pandabear felt like he was trapped in a terrible dilemma.

By the time there was agreement among the trio, the sky was painted in the lush, warm colors of sunset. Two sets of eyes bore themselves into Voidedmafia. He recognized the looks in their eyes, and he didn't like it. He tried to back away into Traveller's house, but it was no use. He didn't even know who of the two of them was the guilty one. For each step he took back, the other two moved forward; it was a cat-and-mouse game they played on the way to the door. Eventually, the mouse pounced.

pandabear produced a knife from an inner pocket, and he threw it straight at Voidedmafia's chest. His aim was true, and Voidedmafia died instantly.

Voidedmafia,

townie

, was lynched on Day 4!

A sense of accomplishment washed over him as he watched Voidedmafia's body slump to the ground. It was over. If he was right, he had just eradicated the mafia from the town. At last they would remember what the word "safety" meant! Excited, he ran over to Voidedmafia to check the body for signs of his membership in the mafia. Among Voidedmafia's effects were his wallet, a few credit cards, and a ticket stub to an

Ace Attorney

event being held in the city. There was nothing else of interest. How strange...

That was when he heard GreyICE sneer, "Looking for this?"

Behind him, GreyICE was holding up Nachomamma8's note, the one with both of their names inscribed upon it. In his other hand, he held a gun pointed at pandabear. It was then that pandabear realized that he had chosen incorrectly. It was too late to regret now. The only things left for pandabear to think about was how GreyICE had managed to survive for so long and what he would be doing to the rest of the town when he took care of pandabear. He thought it a little odd that he didn't feel worse about this defeat.

GreyICE did not bother with a silencer. The loud bang made no echo, but he knew the entire neighborhood had heard it.

pandabear,

townie

, was killed in the endgame!

A win condition has been achieved!

The bells tolled as the funeral procession made its way out of the chapel. There was no one in the pews to pray for the dead; so few people remained in the town that they had all been enlisted as pallbearers to carry the eight coffins containing the victims of this deadly game. It was a silent affair. Not that there was nothing to be said; each of the townspeople had plenty on their minds about which they worried, but none of those worries were worth voicing. They were not at liberty to speak of the injustice that had led to these deaths over the past four days.

GreyICE led the way to the cemetery. There, eight plots were ready to receive the dead. He watched as they lowered the caskets into the ground and thought about what he'd done over the past week. He didn't know whether to feel pride or shame over it all. He glanced over at Nachomamma8's spot in the ground, half-hoping he'd get an answer from the man who had, together with him, planned this violent coup. Nachomamma8 had not said very much, but GreyICE had figured him for the strong, silent type of mafia capable of manipulating towns into following his will. Instead, that silence had killed him. What would Nachomamma8 have said in victory?

The soft sounds of the crank gave GreyICE no comfort.

GreyICE,

mafia goon

, survives and wins the game for the mafia!

[Equinox]

Roles

The setup was determined by using a random number generator, which flipped a 2.

Mafia Roleblocker: Nachomamma8 (IC)
Mafia Goon: GreyICE (SE)
Townie:

bristep123 (SE)

}|{opa (SE)
Townie:

King of Harolds

Herodotus (SE)
Townie:

mirinkamar

pandabear
Townie:

Misder

RaudhrGarm

tarsonisocelot
Townie: Sn1pe29
Townie: Glass (SE) & Traveller
Townie:

yura-chi

thil13

Voidedmafia (SE)

Actions

Night 1

GreyICE kills }|{opa (successful)
Nachomamma8 blocks Herodotus (successful)

Night 2

GreyICE kills Herodotus (successful)

Night 3

GreyICE kills Traveller (successful)

QuickTopics

Graveyard: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/6HyjmUdexCen

The mafia may reveal their QuickTopic if they so choose.

---

Everyone should use this time to discuss the game and give and receive feedback for game play. Ask questions and see what you did well and what needs improving, and apply them to future games.

I'd also like to ask feedback from you, the players, about how I handled this game. Do you have any suggestions as to how I can improve? Feel free to PM me if you have a concern you don't wish to bring up in the thread.

In particular, I'd like feedback on my activity policy. For the past three games, I've prodded at the 72-hour mark, or as close to it as possible, and announced the prods as I made them. That resulted in a lot of spam in this game. Would it be better if I made fewer activity checks (i.e., once every 24 hours), or would you rather I stick to this policy? Any changes to it I should make?

Thanks to everyone who participated in this game, and many thanks to the replacements who offered to take over. Special thanks to }|{opa, Glass, RayFrost, and Voidedmafia, who agreed to stay on as on-call replacements when I couldn't accept their offers to replace.

[Voidedmafia]

I was thinking about crossvoting with you, Grey, but I just didn't have the good foundation I would've needed to actually make Panda choose. I mean, I would've voted for me, and I replaced thil!

That being said, great job.

[Voidedmafia]

Equi: No, I think it's fine. A Pm-prod and in-game-prod are more likely to be noticed together, methinks.

That being said...where's mah flavah? You do it so well, yknow.

[Nachomamma8]

Yeehaw.

[Nachomamma8]

(That's my way of saying I'll be back with specific comments in a moment.)

[pandabear]

haha great game.

Good job GreyICE. And also to everyone else as well. Sorry Voided, but you're right, everything was just framed towards you even if I had a hint of suspicion on Grey (i.e. he was still alive).

[GreyICE]

The advice in the wiki for 3 player LyLo is that a disturbing amount of the time the right move in LyLo is to vote your strong town read. All of my advice on "good town play" was actually good advice but I think it was fair to leave THAT out.

I'm curious voided did you guess before the vote?