Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[xRECKONERx]

Hiraki seems town after that post.
Llama continues to be useless.

[Papa Zito]

Because dram was scummier of the two.

wat

wat

wat

No seriously wat.

Explain plz.

[LlamaFluff]

@PZ - This is the dram case. No scumhunting, constant lurking, trying to shed responsability for lynches prematurely, trying to somewhat policy lynch, and possible wolf-slip

Xalxe is just lurking

I wouldnt give more then 3:2 odds on dram being town... his iso reads as one of my top scum reads.

Just look at how he pushes on people.

Day one he really just jumps on q21 (pushing his partner instead, which on its own is a minor tell). Day two he really doesnt do much hunting around apart from a tiny case early on salv with wiggle room to move to three other wagons, that he eventually does without reasoning.

His two sentance case is picked up again on day three. Also fun is the lack of content from him which he is using (coming from Haylen) as justification to push along salv mislynch. This brings us to the amazingly scummy iso-20

First, he brings up pairings that are half scummy, half townie in such a way that he does not really want to push on them through the use of the phrase "If I have to bend myself over" (thats what he said) "to one of those lynches". Now comes the possible slip:

Tragedy's last post just threw me for a loop. I do not see the town motive at all for saying she'll self-vote if Vezok makes a decent case (barring the fact its a riskless bet, considering vezok making a decent case is statistically impossible). On the other hand, if she were mafia it means giving up any hope for her team to win.

Anyone else see dram completely ignoring the fact that Tragedy can be wolf here? He brings up the scenario where Tragedy is town, and the scenario where Tragedy is mafia. The possibility of Tragedy-wolf is myseteriously missing though. Note that he has got past the "slip" of tragedy at this point so that is discounted.

Eventually he votes one of the afformentioned town/scum pairs in what seems like an attempt to just further a wagon that he seems to chalk up to policy in a seemligly apologetic way. I think that wolf-dram thought that he was lynching town-vezok in this situation and was already trying to get out of taking heat for it by acting like it was best for the game. I am all for moving wagons to get a game going, but he was obviously conflicted on this vote about two paragraphs preceeding it. You dont go lynching null reads to get the game moving.

Today we see dram trying to line up a PO/Esp and then Tragedy/Mary lynch very early on in a no so consipicous manner, saying that neither group can live to the endgame. Since then... nothing. Dram has never presented a case on people, and spent most of his time buddying up to people and setting up lynches, just exploiting the town read that Reck has jammed town everyones throats for him.

Seriously, someone point me to a strong case dram has made this game.

There is none. However there are plenty of attempts to set up lynches (he already got the vezok one, and is moved on to Esp/PO). There also is the quote that looks like a wolf slip to me.

unvote
Vote dram

Wrath of reck in 3... 2... 1...

[Hiraki]

THERE IS A LACK OF UNVOTES, AND VOTES.

DO I NEED TO CONTINUE?

[Espeonage]

Probs not. It's just more of the same.

[Ashblade]

So can we hang these guys now?

Hang who?

So I did some reasearch.

Its dram/xalxe and ash/evil llama

Wryyyyyyyyyy are you trying to put together partners?

Kise/Llama, Zito. They are both trying to set up exactly where to go, not only to 'clear' them and another group but also saying who exactly is the other scum group.

Just because I think Dram is lurky town doesn't mean I'd completely cry or say I'd change my mind on the deal (there are two other groups that are going to be harder to sway me). I'm mostly waiting to hear from his partner to help get a better view on it (who's doing pretty much the same thing and it is irritating me that he's been... 7 days without a post... ugh -_- ).

There is only one chain I agree with right now, and that there being 1 scum in Esp/PO and Kise/LlamaF, even despite the wagon off of the former by the latter. Right now, I believe we will hit wolf on Kise's team. Not much else I have to develop at this time, I'll try to dig around later to see if I can find anything.

Also, one more question. Where the hell is our mod now? Is he having trouble again?

[Ashblade]

PROD: XALVE
PROD: NERO CAIN
PROD: SENSFAN

[Hiraki]

Probs not. It's just more of the same.

So um.

There's no defense here. Maybe--

WHY ARE YOU NOT BEING LYNCHED.

[Papa Zito]

Xalxe is just lurking

Did you read his predecessor?

WHY ARE YOU NOT BEING LYNCHED.

yah


Votecount would be cool.

[GreyICE]

Votecount would be cool.

We don't have a moderator. It's kinda just this thing, y'know?

[Hiraki]

Votecount would be cool.

We don't have a moderator. It's kinda just this thing, y'know?

WE ALSO DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ESP VOTES.

[Papa Zito]

Espeonage - 5 (Papa Zito, Dram, Tragedy, Hiraki, Nero Cain)
Kise - 6 (Llamarble, Purple Orange, Ashblade, GreyICE, Espeonage, xRECKONERx)
Ashblade - 2 (Kise, LlamaFluff)


Not Voting - 3 (Xalxe, antihero, EmpTyger)

9 to lynch.

This is still current.

I'm looking at this and seeing Kise as an Esp counterwagon.

[Papa Zito]

Also I'm obviously going to have to read Kise since people seem to be convinced of a something something.

[GreyICE]

IT IS TIME FOR COOL THINGS

Okay, lemme go back and read through. Here's my problem, first. The game, in some respects, has just started. We have no relevant scum flips.

On the other hand, I think we know something that we didn't at the start - the scumteam is at least semi-competent. I go back to my lovers list, and every potential pair I see has someone I trust to act smart on it.

And what is smart in this game? It's not scumhunting from day 1. I made a big show of that because I wanted both scumteams doing it. What they should now be desperately, desperately aware of is that we only need three town reads we can absolutely trust to win this game. That's why I've let this push on Dramonic go on as long as it has.

It ends now.

I'm going to trust Reckoner's town read unless and until Dramonic says something that confirms him beyond belief. And you know what? I trust them. I've read other games, Reck has taken down Dram-scum. Hell, Reck used Dram-scum in Darkest Night to take out AN ENTIRE SCUMTEAM.

So yeah, here's where the scumteam is at - if Reck and Dram are town, then the two of them just need a third town read they trust, and then this game ends. Like that. Because everyone, EVERYONE else is lynchable. And once they hit the first scum, they don't even need #3, the game is over. That's what I told em at the start of today, and I stand by it. I'll play #3, and hell, they can string me up in LyLo if they're so worried, we'll hit scum before then.

What two SMART scumteams would have done is deliberately scumhunted poorly on early days, in order to get plenty of town flips. Once it drops to a 5:2:2 situation or 4:2:2 or something, the game devolves into essentially begging one or the other scumteams to let them lynch someone. That's where the biggest chance of scum victory comes from.

That's why I can't help but feel a lot of the suspicion being tossed around is pure, grade A bullshit. That's what has had be ready to lynch Kise since day 3. He fits the profile to a T, if he's a good player. Tries to lynch town on day 1. Lurks until it seems apparent the scumteams are going down. Living in a tunnel for days.

Now it's time to go down the player list, and see where we are.

P.S. This assumes reck s town, because reck is FUCKING TOWN AS HELL

[GreyICE]

Lover List

xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
Dramonic -

NOBODY AT ALL

LETS START ASSUMING THESE ARE TOWN

EmpTyger - Hiraki

Emp, like it or not, fits the profile. We liked him as Mafia, but pushing lynches onto town and off scum is actually good scumplay. I can't help but WIFOM myself.

Hiraki feels town, but... there's this nagging feeling of doubt. He's fucking motivated, alright, I'll give him that. But facing down these odds as scum? I can't help thinking he'd get a kick out of the challenge. But I also can't help but feel he knows that one mislynch ain't gonna get him there.

TOWN

Papa Zito - Tragedy

Mariyta plays a wicked scum game. I know, because she won the game nigh-singlehandedly for a totally incompetent team (spoiler: it was me and Zang, and we did nothing right). She seemed to genuinely want kcdaspot/Baby Spice to live, when she thought they were a mislynch. We interpreted that as scummy, because they were scum. It's impossible for her to know that. I read her posts as reasonably genuine. But... she doesn't plan. My flaw as scum is I develop these silly ideas and can't help but see how they play out in the thread. Her flaw is she doesn't think ahead. Tragedy is new.

What makes me lean town?

Woohoo! Look at the scum flock to my wagon!

That's a scumtell, right? Nah. Mariyta just plays a better scum game than this. She'd deflect suspicion. I think she was genuinely frustrated.

PZ feels town to me.
Tragedy... has always been the scummy one of the two, right?

No. She's scumhunting. I'm not POSITIVE, mainly because I have a wild distrust of how damn good Mariyta's scum game is, but PZ just doesn't feel scum to me. At all.

Leaning Town

-

NULL

Llamarble - Ashblade

Lets start here. Llamarble may have been useless for his two posts, but lets think about what he did. He absolutely assured himself that TWO PEOPLE WERE TOWN.

He can do the math, he knows the inevitability, as well as I do. We don't need scumreads. We need TOWNREADS. If we have them, we can just chain a few lynches and hit who we need to.

Ashblade has done nothing much. Which fits... everyone's profile this game.

THIS IS TOWN... FOR NOW

If we lynch all our scumreads, then maybe we come back here.

PurpleOrange - Espeonage

Espy scum is so well established. PO? She's good, good, good. But reasonably new. We called her out on day 1 for the 'teehee no NK' thing being much faker than Reck's "WAIT A SECOND WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SCUMBAG SETTING UP WHO YOU WANNA SHOOT AT NIGHT?" deal.

LlamaFluff - Kise

And, here we are. Kise has done NOTHING all game. Thingyman?

This will be my first game on this site, but I do have vast experience from several other sites (55+ games), so I'm quite familiar with the dynamics and mechanics of the game. I've actually also tried a similar set-up to this one before (it wasn't allowed to announce the name of your mason though). Should be fun.

I kept reading him as a noob. But every time I read that line, I have to wonder. I was dismissing it as 55 games on "who knows Mafia," but was that 55 games on a real site with real games and real players? His posts read much more MTGS than EpicMafia. He knows what he's doing.

Kise? Holy hell. Did NOTHING before day 4, when I nailed VP scum. If I was telling the truth, and he had no reason to doubt I was on the scumtell, then that meant the other team was about to be eliminated. And I HATE his play this day. I'm just going to start bolding the teams who might be scum, in the order they show up.

Getting townreads from me is irrelevent when I've explicably called

po-esp, grey, and ashblade

as the likely scum in that order. So then... guess whos left to fill those town spots? I am very comfortable with leaving the game in a reck-nero-dram-?-trag-? finale if it ever came to that. Just fucking lynch esp and if theyre town then lynch me without a fight.

***emp is another possibility as semi cleared, pending an ash/

llama

werewolf flip

THIS

It shouldn't come down to you guys, dram. Ash/Llama, then Grey/Anti and it's GG.

LlamaFluff has very different ideas:

I wouldnt give more then 3:2 odds on dram being town... his iso reads as one of my top scum reads.

Its dram/xalxe and ash/evil llama

Now thats a reaction that backs up my theory, interestingly enough even those quotes I missed show you are probably scum with him

unvote
Vote Ash

So what happens if Ash flips town?

Im going to end up questioning dram-scum a bit since it would leave basically just emp as the other half of that pair and that isnt a beautiful fit, if dram is scum its with ash/emp/you, and the last two are hard to fit due to conflicting actions or reads. Tragedy, PO and Ice are out as dram partners.

FUCK THIS.

ANTIHERO... I AM MOTIVATED AGAIN. I WANT TO PLAY AGAIN.

Vote:Kise

WINE AWAY FROM MY FACE. LETS GET SOMEONE WHO IS MOST LIKELY SCUM TODAY. WE HAVE COMPETING WAGONS. YES. TWO COMPETING WAGONS. AND THEY ROCK.

I LIKE THIS

[Papa Zito]

Man those assumptions make me twitch.

Especially when I don't really see Reck as town.

Also you were already on Kise lol?

But competing bandwagons are good yeah and I'm wondering why Kise hasn't jumped yet honestly.


P.S. There's a reason I'm asking dram for his Reck read yes indeedy.

[Hiraki]

Espy scum is so well established.

IF THERE IS ONE SCUM, THERE IS TWO.

[Tragedy]

@GreyICE: You're already on Kise, lol.

[GreyICE]

Espy scum is so well established.

IF THERE IS ONE SCUM, THERE IS TWO.

SO WAS UMBRAGE GODDAMN IT

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO SUFFER THROUGH THAT BUT MY GOD WAS UMBRAGE SCUM

[xRECKONERx]

I DON'T CARE AT THIS POINT
THIS GAME IS FUCKING INFURIATING
GREYICE IS TOWN TOWN TOWN
I WILL LYNCH EITHER KISE OR ESPEONAGE

DRAMONIC NEEDS TO POST MORE
HE ALSO NEEDS ANOTHER NEW LOVER

[Tragedy]

I IMMEDIATELY REQUEST TO SMASH THE SHIT OUT OF ESPEONAGE. NOW.

[xRECKONERx]

UNVOTE

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
FIRST WAGON TO L-1 WINS MY HAMMER
AND SINCE I HAVE NO LIFE, I WILL AUTOHAMMER AT L-1, BECAUSE I'M ALWAYS ON THE SITE

GET TO IT

[dramonic]

I would much prefer an Esp lynch over a Kise lynch.

hey llama, am i buddying now?

[Papa Zito]

ALL CAPS

I would much prefer an Esp lynch over a Kise lynch.

hey llama, am i buddying now?

Hay fluffy owl I asked you for your Reck read plz.

[xRECKONERx]

Dram.
Please, for the love of god, explain WHY you'd prefer that lynch.

I know you're town.
But they don't.
SHOW THEM.

PREDIT: ALSO YES PLEASE ANSWER ZITO'S QUESTION FOR THE LOVE OF GOD