A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Seacore]

Sigh, I'll learn eventually.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 3.11

Zdenek (4) Shadow1psc, Bunnylover, DrippingGoofball, Andrius

Nexus (3) Magua, Thor665, popsofctown
Twilight Sparkle (1) Raivann
Setael (1) Danakillsu

Raivann (4) Twilight Sparkle, Kast, Setael, Hasdgfas

Danakillsu (1) LynchMePls
Shadow1psc (1) Locke Lamora
Andrius (1) Zdenek

Not voting (2) Nexus, Benmage

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Time to get social aka quicktopic time deadline is here
Deadline for lynches is here

*No one due a prod.
* Vc mistakes? Point them out.
* Green? That sounds like a Baratheon colour! And it's not like there's a Baratheon on the throne...

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP:
Questions/Comments/Cases you'd like to see me make?

/sorry for quadruple post

pops is mod-confirmed town.

[DrippingGoofball]

A single tear sprang to my eye when reading that post from Andrius.
Brilliant, my man, simply brilliant.

Yeah. What can I say. He's town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Please re-read Andrius - he's not good at a glance. He might be good after a few more days of posting, but not right now.

Well hello scum.

[popsofctown]

benmage should be the L-1 vote on the wagon while we are at the tables. Then the player in question will claim to his table. If the claim makes those players think he needs to live another night, they will self vote to signal there was an acceptable claim. We have to decide on these things ahead of time.

If benmage wants to encourage a wagon he can vote, unvote the wagon as many times as he wants, but i think it's best if he's L-1.

[Twilight Sparkle]

I am still suspicious of them. Here are somethings that I would like to add to what I've said before. They said

MoI's suspicions have had a logical townie like progression. It started early yesterday with his response to my questioning and has just built from there. Post 1170 is detailed reasoning for his suspicion and it reads genuine to me.

But not too long after that they said called MoI

The player with whom I have reservations the size of a small continent and whose every post raises yet another alarm bell

It surprises me that they would have no reservations about a vote coming from a player about whom they felt like that.

I don't know what you are trying to say here at all. Can you explain it clearer? Something has been lost in the translation I think. I don't see how the two quotes have anything to do with each other at all

Also, look at this from TS.

Sadly this means I'm probably wrong about MagU because I seriously doubt there's two scum in {Benmage, Magua, MoI}. Maybe separate faction scum, but I don't see two Starks blatantly agreeing SO HARD in the thread. Meh, backburner it for now, if another non-Lannister faction flips I'll pick up my shiny toy again.

As alluded to yesterday, some of the passion has gone out of the zdenek wagon of late. We'll see what happens when he's actively scumhunting and not just responding to point we're raising. For now:

Vote: Raivann

In the first paragraph, decides to stop attacking because Magua is unlikely to be Stark, and then votes Raivann. But later we have:

2) I personally think there are either two scumteams or a serial killer, because MoI was an unlikely vig shot. Also, I'm convinced that Raivann is scum right now, and he apparently doesn't fit well as a Stark. Normally, I wouldn't base my theory of the set-up on reads, but his Feysal vote and dodging my pressure to explain it was a scumclaim. Like I said yesterday, Raivann is ridiculously transparent. Unfortunately, that means MoI's flip no longer clears us, but at least Raivann's will.

So Raivann is not Stark, but he is still a worthy lynch.

No, that's not we said at all. “Apparently doesn't fit well as Stark” isn't the same as “Not Stark” I think that was from a Mina posting, so I'll let her come back and touch on this some more.

I am willing to admit that both of these issues can be explained away by the fact they are a hydra, and it is doubtful that there is the will to lynch them, so I am not going to push this lynch today. I am not willing to clear them completely of being Stark just because of MoI's flip. Since they are a strong group of players, their lynch was unlikely, and on top of that both MoI and Twilight are reasonable targets for nightkills, so there would have been a definite benefit if they distanced from each other, and the risk of it ending in a lynch was low.

Were we playing the same game yesterday? There were times we were fighting for our lives and for a nice chunk of the day we were the leading vote getter. I'd say our lynch was very possible yesterday, not at all unlikely as you want to claim. Also, if we're your top scum read you

should

keep pushing us. This whole “they won't be lynched” just smells like crap to me and is a really weak sauce argument when you look at how yesterday went. This is also contrary to your point tying us to MoI. So, what gives?

Andy, welcome to the game. Your wall is... Wally. I'll read it in detail tomorrow. I do like your final list of reads for the most part however.

~Sotty

[Bunnylover]

Something is telling me that Benmage should use the hand of the king now instead of continuing to hold on to it.

[popsofctown]

you think he's scum?

[Bunnylover]

you think he's scum?

Doubt it.
But the possibility, no matter how small, is still their and should be avoided shouldn't it?

[Setael]

Please re-read Andrius - he's not good at a glance. He might be good after a few more days of posting, but not right now.

Well hello scum.

For once I agree with DGB.

V/LA until Monday. Sorry I can't be more active right now.

[popsofctown]

there's a small possibility he has an investigative PR. If you trust him, that outweighs the chance he's scum

[hasdgfas]

there's a small possibility he has an investigative PR. If you trust him, that outweighs the chance he's scum

[Magua]

Zdenek may not have known [[chesskid = Tyrion]] but he knew Tyrion and WITH BASIC BRAINS he could have figured out chesskid = Tyrion as I outlined in the last part of the wall.

Look, I'll lay this out simple. You keep saying "Zdenek should have known Tyrion is town, Zdenek should have known Chesskid was Tyrion, Zdenek should have known Chesskid was town. I'm not arguing this.

What I'm asking is, why are you saying it? When I read you say "Zdenek should've known Chesskid was town," I expect there to be a *reason* for you to say it. Something Zdenek did that made you think, "Why would Zdenek-who-should've-known-Chesskid-was-town do that?" I keep missing this. I'm not looking for a Zdenek ISO or Zdenek connections or anything like that. I'm asking, why do you keep saying "Zdenek should've known Chesskid was town"? What are you trying to show?

-Assuming you meant Magua's towntell on shadow, I'm not giving much weight to it. It's plausible Shadow is being honest. It's also possible he's reacting to the sample role PM. For me, I had no clue who the Lannisters were, and I asked the mod if Lannister equals town prior to reading the thread/sample role PM. I find it plausible that someone else could see red font and think mafia.

I got my role PM. I saw "Lannister" and the bold red font. I sent a reply PM to the mods asking, "So, I'm like a traitor, right? I win with the mafia but don't know who my partners are."

Shadow mentioning having this same reaction is a tell so specific to /this/ setup that I place an incredible amount of weight on it, as he was the first to voice it in the thread.

That's not how it works

and I don't buy for one second that you believe it would

. Anyone who comes up as "Modified Nightkill Immune Nightkiller" is OBVIOUSLY an SK. Someone coming up as "Modified NK Immune" is still fairly damning but leaves some wiggle room.

Bolded for emphasis. So you believe that Zdenek is the SK and that I'm...what, defending him? Because...I'm his partner? If you think I don't believe what I'm saying, what, exactly, do you think I'm trying to achieve here?

pops is mod-confirmed town.

So, hypothetically: If we lynched you, and you came up town, we'd have two mod-confirmed town (popsofctown and Benmage), yes? This is what you're saying?

[Magua]

Something is telling me that Benmage should use the hand of the king now instead of continuing to hold on to it.

Why?

Tell me the fear you have.

[Locke Lamora]

Agree that Zdenek can wait for later.

TS is obviously keen to keep me on their suspect list to bring up later for some reason, one which I have yet to fathom out. Any reason for that one, TS?

A remarkably scummy post following:

@Kast - I hate that Raivann keeps getting a free pass, but if you're claiming you've got Zdenek dead to rights, and TS (who looks even more town now) has built their solid case around him, I'm pretty inclined to believe that is a great direction to take. If it takes pressure to get it out of him, I'll be glad to help;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

Raivann is going to lay low some more and not contribute I'm sure. I'm a little more wary of LMP based on the number of kills remaining consistent; We also have not seen the revelation of a third faction yet, something I find interesting considering 3 stark flips. I maintain LMP could have easily claimed vig to cover his tracks shooting Chess, and claimed jailed (why would this even be pertinent if you were one shot anyway/would you be notified if you were jailed...?) and have someone else send the NK (as scum). Could have been jailed as SK, the only reason to have mentioned being the target of the now dead jailer was if he had attempted to shoot someone and it got stopped (but claimed out of shots to us). SK seems like the more unlikely choice.

Anyway, on the topic of Zdenek, name claiming, then saying "I'm not gonna claim my power, it's anti-town" is ass, and anti-town in itself. If we hit discussion limit deadline, you get nkilled, and you were at a table with scum, that would destroy anything you worked for. If someone has evidence v. you (and a staggeringly huge case), you best come forward, with your information, and be believable.

p-edit: well then. That's... weird.

First off, this vote looks like a blatant attempt to seize an opportunity for an easy lynch on someone he knows isn't scum; he doesn't even wait to see how Kast's result plays out, he just drops his top suspect and votes for Zdenek whilst acting like it's a real wrench to not lynch Raivann. He doesn't even commit to calling Zdenek scum, he puts the vote down to pressuring more info out of him (which he hasn't removed since Zdenek claimed more info). Then he continues his crusade to push LMP-scum based on the CK kill. If he genuinely didn't believe that LMP was vig then he'd be trying to lynch LMP first, not Raivann. Instead he's just trying to cast doubt on LMP's claim at every available opportunity but parking his vote on easier wagons. His reaction to Zdenek's more detailed claim is notable for its lack of thrust; he's spending his time arguing what the pro-town approach would be, but he's not calling Zdenek obv-scum or even stating whether he actually thinks Zdenek is scum or town that played the role badly. Then we get this gem:

I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.

a.) why weren't you pushing a chesskid lynch d1

b.) why did you wait on claiming this

c.)

Point a) He was

also town

, possibly town power.
Point b) Valid. I'd like to know, you'd be untouchable.
Point c) lawl.

If anything, you should have hinted at this harder day 2, or outright said it, if not breadcrumbed something along the lines of "CK is totally town" after his name claim.

"Also town"?! So Shadow thinks Zdenek is town...but he still has his vote parked there. Then there's the fact that Shadow really shouldnt be answering this for Zdenek; it's more like 'hey, I can think of a pro-town reason for that, give me townpoints'! It completely contradicts his original stated motive of voting Zdenek to pressure more info out of him. In fact, everything Shadow's said to or about Zdenek since he claimed indicates he doesn't really think he's scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

So, hypothetically: If we lynched you, and you came up town, we'd have two mod-confirmed town (popsofctown and Benmage), yes? This is what you're saying?

That, my friend, is a fact.

[LimMePls]

1915 is win.

I agree that we need a system for orchestrating our lynch once we're at our tables. I like the idea of Benmage putting the L-1 down and then the table self-voting if they agree with the claim.

[Raivann]

Magua-
Is this the Shadow post you're talking about?

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16004

FWIW I've never been scum here (I was hoping to get it this game and was excited when my role came up Lannister... then went 'awwww').

[Shadow1psc]

Agree that Zdenek can wait for later.

TS is obviously keen to keep me on their suspect list to bring up later for some reason, one which I have yet to fathom out. Any reason for that one, TS?

A remarkably scummy post following:

@Kast - I hate that Raivann keeps getting a free pass, but if you're claiming you've got Zdenek dead to rights, and TS (who looks even more town now) has built their solid case around him, I'm pretty inclined to believe that is a great direction to take. If it takes pressure to get it out of him, I'll be glad to help;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

Raivann is going to lay low some more and not contribute I'm sure. I'm a little more wary of LMP based on the number of kills remaining consistent; We also have not seen the revelation of a third faction yet, something I find interesting considering 3 stark flips. I maintain LMP could have easily claimed vig to cover his tracks shooting Chess, and claimed jailed (why would this even be pertinent if you were one shot anyway/would you be notified if you were jailed...?) and have someone else send the NK (as scum). Could have been jailed as SK, the only reason to have mentioned being the target of the now dead jailer was if he had attempted to shoot someone and it got stopped (but claimed out of shots to us). SK seems like the more unlikely choice.

Anyway, on the topic of Zdenek, name claiming, then saying "I'm not gonna claim my power, it's anti-town" is ass, and anti-town in itself. If we hit discussion limit deadline, you get nkilled, and you were at a table with scum, that would destroy anything you worked for. If someone has evidence v. you (and a staggeringly huge case), you best come forward, with your information, and be believable.

p-edit: well then. That's... weird.

First off, this vote looks like a blatant attempt to seize an opportunity for an easy lynch on someone he knows isn't scum; he doesn't even wait to see how Kast's result plays out, he just drops his top suspect and votes for Zdenek whilst acting like it's a real wrench to not lynch Raivann. He doesn't even commit to calling Zdenek scum, he puts the vote down to pressuring more info out of him (which he hasn't removed since Zdenek claimed more info).

*

Then he continues his crusade to push LMP-scum based on the CK kill. If he genuinely didn't believe that LMP was vig then he'd be trying to lynch LMP first, not Raivann. Instead he's just trying to cast doubt on LMP's claim at every available opportunity but parking his vote on easier wagons. His reaction to Zdenek's more detailed claim is notable for its lack of thrust; he's spending his time arguing what the pro-town approach would be, but he's not calling Zdenek obv-scum or even stating whether he actually thinks Zdenek is scum or town that played the role badly.

** Then we get this gem:

I am Tywin Lannister. I become night kill immune if Tyrion Lannister dies.

a.) why weren't you pushing a chesskid lynch d1

b.) why did you wait on claiming this

c.)

Point a) He was

also town

, possibly town power.
Point b) Valid. I'd like to know, you'd be untouchable.
Point c) lawl.

If anything, you should have hinted at this harder day 2, or outright said it, if not breadcrumbed something along the lines of "CK is totally town" after his name claim.

"Also town"?! So Shadow thinks Zdenek is town

***...but he still has his vote parked there. Then there's the fact that Shadow really shouldnt be answering this for Zdenek; it's more like 'hey, I can think of a pro-town reason for that, give me townpoints'! It completely contradicts his original stated motive of voting Zdenek to pressure more info out of him. In fact, everything Shadow's said to or about Zdenek since he claimed indicates he doesn't really think he's scum.

Alright, lets break this down LL:

*

It was a blatant attempt to press information out of someone who said "I'm not gonna claim, its anti-town", when Kast claimed damning information on him. I've expressed several times why I keep having to move off Raivann (who I sat on d2, despite benmage, and will be switching back to in a sec).

**

I didn't realize discussion concerning LMP was out of the question. I don't have a definitive position on him, a one-shot vig claim is something that will sort itself out if he's scum. I'm of the belief Zdenek played the role badly, yes, which brings us to...

***

This is either bad reading comprehension or misrepresentation at its finest; the 'also' qualifier is in no way an indication of my read on Zdenek. That was myself pointing out to TP that Zdenek shouldn't have been trying to lynch Chess, as it should have been inferred he was tyrion, who as it also turns out, was town. So that's not also as in, 'too', lets try this LL:

TS: You should have been trying to lynch CK
Shadow: He was also town, ya know.

Implying, he certainly could have been town and it's easy to infer Tyrion is Lannister aligned, and no one should have been pushing that lynch.

Finally, yes,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Raivann

The wagon actually has steam, I've made my repeated case on this and why he needs to go.

[Bunnylover]

Something is telling me that Benmage should use the hand of the king now instead of continuing to hold on to it.

Why?

Tell me the fear you have.

More of a gut feeling then actual logical reasoning.
The only reason I can see Benmage keeping the power is because he has an investigation role.
Its not on urgent were going to lose this game if Benmage doesn't use the power today, but it could come down to the situation.

[Magua]

Magua-
Is this the Shadow post you're talking about?

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16004

FWIW I've never been scum here (I was hoping to get it this game and was excited when my role came up Lannister... then went 'awwww').

Yes.

[Magua]

More of a gut feeling then actual logical reasoning.
The only reason I can see Benmage keeping the power is because he has an investigation role.
Its not on urgent were going to lose this game if Benmage doesn't use the power today, but it could come down to the situation.

Tell me how it could come down to that situation.

[Eddard Stark]

Benmage has been prodded

@ Andrius' question:

The first player to be raised as the new Hand will receive a 1-shot Governor ability. This ability will allow them to publicly nominate one player. That player is unable to be lynched for that Day only.

So, no. The day will continue.

[Benmage]

Myb, thought it was 3 days for prods, not 2....regardless I'm home from work today and planned on sinking my teeth in.