Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[dramonic]

I apologize, I seem to have missed Zito asking for my personal opinion on Reck.

I have played and/or modded with Reck multiple multiple times, and I believe he is town. While he always rage ingame, it feels genuine this time around (unlike games where he was scum like that roman thing modded by CES). From my perspective it's visibly different.

Also guts, etc... Though that might basically mean the same thing from an outside perspective.

ANYWAYS

Why Espeonage over Kise?


Espeonage posts throughout the game have been less than stellar. If you look at his ISO he hasn't posted anything better than one liners since the end of february. His slot is being carried through and through by Purple Orange, which while the latter is kind of town, has been degrading in quality lately

Kise on the other hand, does not have anyone else to fall back on and I do not understand the fuss about him being scummy. I personally can get behind his position on Esp (well, the old one, since apparently he now thinks that Esp is town, THE HELL). In comes Llama with tunnelvision full steam ahead, which Kise does not fall into.

Kise is playing as town, not as a suck-up to his lover.

I'm not planning to switch votes today

[Hiraki]

DRAM IS TOWN FOR AGREEING WITH ESP.

THERE.

[dramonic]

DRAM IS TOWN FOR AGREEING WITH ESP.

THERE.

...
Read again. Slowly this time.

[Hiraki]

SORRY, ALL CAPS MODE. TOO MUCH CAPS, NOT MUCH TIME>

[Kise]

Well Llama, let's be fair and non-textbook here. I never mentioned vezok and probably a few others, but as we can see, that doesn't mean I distanced from him. I'd say the same in dram's case, as you related him to Ash & Llama. If I/we don't want to mention people, I'm probably tunneling on others.

Check the QT, plz.

[Kise]

Meh. If I may make a suggestion: keep the teams of Tragedy, dramonic & Hiraki-Emp alive FTTW. I'm still okay with speedlynching, but it wouldn't make sense to go for Esp & PO after me since you've had flip-floppers voting both of us.

[GreyICE]

Why do I get the funny feeling that Kise and PO are the last two scumteams who are all like "Well, only lynch ONE OF US!"

[Kise]

Lol, I can already sense we'll be considered for lynches back-to-back due to a town flip from the other team. I can activate self-preservation mode if you want me to and vote for them. I'm not self-voting, however.

[Kise]

Question for all: Would bandwagoning in this current scenario be more likely to come from town or werewolf?
Optional question: Why?

[Espeonage]

@ Hikari: I've said all that I want to say. I have my reads, I don't believe I need to prompt for more information. If I have nothing to add then why should I add it? I'll only say as much as I need to. That's why it's more of the same.

[Purple Orange]

Oookay...so. Back.

=========

Emp/Hiraki are town. If they are scum, I give up, and I'll just pick random names out of a hat the next game. Reck is town. GreyIce is town, because he probably is, and because I can't afford that level of paranoia right now.

Llama/Ash = gaaaaaaaah. *headwall* Too much WIFOM here. I do find your switch from Espy/me to Kise rather arbitrary and out-of-the-blue, as you'd been after Espy/my head for pretty much the whole thread, and hadn't said BOO about Kise until today. And it occurs after Reck starts his wagon analysis of "if Esp/Purp are town, we're looking at the current wagon for scumpairs.") The fact that Kise and Reck and I and some other folks all talked inthread about what mafia would and wouldn't do, and how they would or wouldn't bus, will throw off the read of actions that come after such discussions, yours in particular.

dram/whoever - I had a (possibly iffy) meta scumread on wolf. And in dram's "mafia" post, I DON'T read dram as saying what he now says he was saying. So I'm either reading that post of his wrongly, both back when I first read it, and now...or he lied, because he thought it DID look like a slip. And thought that saying, "I was using mafia to mean scum in general" was the best way to wiggle out of it. I

cannot

rule out dram-scum, and it DOES NOT fucking "end now" for me, because I can't shake my initial interp of that post, and because he

never

uses scum and mafia interchangeably before or after that post. I don't see that post as a slip. But I DO see "I was using mafia to mean scum" as a probable lie.

Kise/llama - gaaaaaaah and WIFOM to you, too. But if I have to choose between your "gaaaaah" and the llamarble "gaaaah," I'm going to stick with you. There's what I think I saw on Days 1 through 5.0. And looking at simply Day 5.5, I don't like how you tried to get me to vote Ash to "clear us both." (Which it wouldn't do anyway. And you don't even seem to consider the possibility he might be, oh, town). And if I think the llamarble team has turned inexplicably on a dime, I think you did as well when it came to Espy/me. Actually moreso, as you came barralling out that we were TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN. Grey, Reck, llama, Ash, and Emp haven't had drastic and permanent(?) changes of heart like that. And as a cautious/tentative support is the tenor of what I'm seeing from the pairs that I think are town, your gung-ho divergence from it bothers me.

Zito/Traj - have been laying pretty low since attention got called off them.

==========

Plus, this looks like horrible OMGUS'ing, excluding the part where PO made a case.

But Grey has misreps, ad homs, and the worst facade of aggressive scumhunting I've seen in a long time. Which, meh, might not be so bad in itself, because one can get reactions from a push like that (see benefit of the doubt). But then the final, "oh, ok, people don't seem to be buying this case...let's give myself a backdoor out and say maybe Umbrage is just really bad town...let's turn on a dime and drop this guy and sheep the kcda wagon!" That was pretty darn bad.

But no examples. Le soupir.

There's something to be said for stating an initial case short and sweet. Plus I'm pretty darn sure I talk about the specific posts of Grey's I had problems with, in various posts both before and after my vote-post. And even IN the vote-post, in the second-to-last sentence. Either way, I can give you some accompanying citations. (Also, Grey had been calling us town for most of the day, and that post wasn't the first time I'd questioned their alignment, so I'm not sure where you're getting OMGUS from. ).

Question for all: Would bandwagoning in this current scenario be more likely to come from town or werewolf?
Optional question: Why?

If I knew the answer to that, I'd know who was frikkin' town and werewolf.

[Tragedy]

Zito/Myself are utterly confused.
A massive wall spam and massive posts does not appeal us.
It makes it harder for us to care and understand wtfux going on.

[Purple Orange]

In comes Llama with tunnelvision full steam ahead, which Kise does not fall into.

Kise is playing as town, not as a suck-up to his lover.

Um...yeah, because llama just falls into Kise's new vision instead.

Zito/Myself are utterly confused.
A massive wall spam and massive posts does not appeal us.
It makes it harder for us to care and understand wtfux going on.

Err...would pretty pictures help? I'm actually not sure if it does any good, but it's at least a faster overview of who voted for whom when. (I made this for Espy/me the other week, and I iz lazy, so you'll have to deal with Espy/me being a greenish color for now, unless/until I make a mirror copy that's a bit more technically objective).

[Tragedy]

I did post earlier of whom voted whom before of Day 3 or 2 or whatever...
Blargh..

[Purple Orange]

You posted the final votecounts of those days. Which are useful, but don't tell the whole story. This doesn't either, but it's at least a bit more exhaustive. (I also have the plaintext stuff mentioned here). :p

[Tragedy]

It kind of feels irritating now, since its a big ass massive wall of shitloaded text.

I'm still thinking it has to do something with Espeonage, though I think he's being dumb at the moment.

[LlamaFluff]

In comes Llama with tunnelvision full steam ahead, which Kise does not fall into.

Kise is playing as town, not as a suck-up to his lover.

Um...yeah, because llama just falls into Kise's new vision instead.

Oh belive me, I would vig the dram pair in half a second if I was able to. That slot reads scum up and down, the only defense against it has been reck saying "thats how dram plays town". No one else has really been able to give a reason that they are town, and just brush it off as me having to be scum to make that push, which just creates a cyclical feed of me thinking im right, which I am, and I will gloat if I am.

If my top pick wont work, I will fall into voting my lovers pick without much of a fight, especially when they are in a shortlist for scummy on their own, and work perfectly as a partner to my pick.

Also I refuse to vote the PO/Esp slot. I think its town, if we get them lynched as town, we are just screwed the next day which means its lylo before people even start to consider dram-scum seriously which im not going to let happen. If I vote the PO/Esp slot, feel free to lynch me on site. I will not vote them. Period. Im trying to convince Kise in the QT to do the same.

Dram needs lynching, but if people are going to not look at that until I am dead, or until we get a partner flip, im going to go ahead and make that happen.

@All non-reck players - What reasoning do you have for dram town?

[Hiraki]

BECAUSE HE AGREES

ABOUT

ESPSCUM.

[LlamaFluff]

So if Esp flips town you will vote dram?

[Kise]

Im trying to convince Kise in the QT to do the same.

:usurped:

[Espeonage]

@ Llama: Have null read still. Will consider lynching should Kise flip town.

[Hiraki]

So if Esp flips town you will vote dram?

There is no plausible way that Esp will flip town, so no.

[EmpTyger]

blech I'll do something one way or the other in 24 hours. Sorry all for the hesitation.

[Purple Orange]

Also I refuse to vote the PO/Esp slot. I think its town, if we get them lynched as town, we are just screwed the next day which means its lylo before people even start to consider dram-scum seriously which im not going to let happen.

If we're both town, they knock us 1-2, and STILL have one free mislynch before lylo.

[LlamaFluff]

Also I refuse to vote the PO/Esp slot. I think its town, if we get them lynched as town, we are just screwed the next day which means its lylo before people even start to consider dram-scum seriously which im not going to let happen.

If we're both town, they knock us 1-2, and STILL have one free mislynch before lylo.

I dont trust these guys to make the right lynch though in that scenario. They probably will go for the PZ/Tragedy mislynch (who is dram is scum, are town) rope one of reck team along and thats game. I want to hammer the points home early so they actually get picked up on. I already know there is zero chance of us living unless we get a one-two scum lynch.