The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Final Destination]

@Greymarble, easy. Fate is very aggressive and active as town. Final Destination has not been aggressive or especially active. There's ample scum motive since his town style is hard to emulate and furthermore, we've seen him try to clean up his act in Wait your turn, Tex and the difference wasn't nearly as big there. So yep, that's a good meta-based argument.

IM GLAD YOU LINKED THAT

The reasons we had for voting Final Destination yesterday still hold. In particular, his SHOCK and HORROR at HOW DARE PEOPLE VOTE ME is so awkward and

over the top it simply doesn't look honest.

POINTS FOR WHO SPOTS THE SCUMBAG.

Seriously this is just laughable at this point. and OH GOODIE BW leaves so the game will stall a bit but hopefully we'll get some COMPETENCE in that fuckin slot.

My god the scum qt looks like this:
WALP I'm goin down today or maybe not-FES
DONT LINK YOURSELF TO ANYONE! Just keep your head down and tunnel FD
Said tunnel is going to get me run up more though...-FES
SO WHAT! We;re look sexy after you flip, and HEY maybe since we have YOS in our pocket still, he'll defend you all the way because he'll WIFOM himself into "FES wouldn't play this badly as scum..." and you'll get through with minimal damage!
*shrug* I'll do some light fake distancing on DaSpot too, I've been working on that link for awhile now, so he'll be an easy mislynch after I die. If I don't see yo utomorrow night, GL-FES
So who to kill? LEts get rid of one of these "derpamasonbuddies" they're bound to get on the right track eventualy.
Let's have Ether dead obviously, we can distract FD with Yos still, and have those two fight it out and lurk through
OH FUCK COPPER IS REPLACING IN
[Dutch Plug-in missing]...-FES
God help us all. Should we just NK him now?
Nah that'll show that scum are in a favorable position and don't want the game read with a new perspective, plus its CRUEL-You know who
K, I got my FD tunnel shirt on, let's do this-FES

DAY 2 DAWN BREAKS

"Yo, I'm scum and I'm ready to be bussed. Watch as I provide no content and respond to no cases on me except those I think I can refute, and link myself with DaSpot in subtle ways" -FES
"YOURE DAMN RIGHT YOURE GONNA BE BUSSED. I SAW THE LIGHT AND YOS IS TOWN AND YOURE THE SCUMBAG"-Fate
"Nope.jpg. Rage more though, it'll make people side with me more heheheh"
"WITH AGM GONE I THINK I WILL FUCKIN RAGE MORE.

OH BUT WAIT...I THOUGHT MY LACK OF RAGE WAS THE REASON IM SCUM?"-Fate
"Meh, I don't even remember my "case" on you anymore, its so flimsy I'm surprised I haven't been quicklynched yet and US got lynched over me yesterday. I'll just ignore it unless an Yosbuddy asks me to provide an updated case on you or something"-FESSCUM
"HEHAHEHAHAEHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YOURE SO DEAD!"

[Endscene, fade to black]

[TheButtonmen]

BeaverWeasel has asked to be replaced.

[Lord Fonzi]

Froggy: Our big issue here is the FD vote. Jumping a wagon at L-1 with 'their defense of the accusations against them was weak' as justification looks about as obvious a scum piling on vote as this head has ever seen. That they'd shown no interest in FD earlier makes it even worse.

By voting without commenting on the meta argument we implicitly endorsed it. I'm not sure why you'd hold FD flying under the radar prior to that point against us - I don't believe there's any serious comment about FD prior to the meta argument by anyone.

You hopped on. When there were already four votes on. None of the spiel about 'implicitly endorse' covers the fact that hopping on in the manner you did is WHAT SCUM DO. Saying they were scum because they got frustrated when attacked is also what scum do. Additionally, implicitly rather than explicitly endorse means you can pick and choose what bits of the case you claim to have believed later on. And, of course, you didn't produce any decent arguments yourselves. I just have a really, really hard time seeing that vote as anything other than scum piling on an easy wagon.

We are totally ready to drop it like it's hot on FES, but will wait for him to speak first.

If you're waiting, you might as well look at other issues. Going 'DERP we is gonna lurk until we drop da hammer' is no use to anyone.

THE CASE AGAINST FES IS TERRIBLE.

There is no reason to think they are scum here at all. This whole wagon is just being driven by Fate not liking that he's being voted, and it's just garbage. I'm going to be really pissed if they end up getting lynched today, I really think they're probably town here, everything they've done so far this game makes sense to me, and there are posts from them I would never expect to see a scum make.

So you think jumping a wagon in the manner they did isn't scummy? Also, please remind me of what these 'scum wouldn't do it' posts are.

My partner seems to be having a hard time getting online at the moment. Rather than lurk, I'm just going to play on my own until such time as he's able to pick up the slack.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

So you think jumping a wagon in the manner they did isn't scummy?

The spot wagon? No, not really. I'd expect CES, at least, to quickly and agressivly join early-game bandwagons without actually explaining why; he's definatly part of that school of thought. And Spot was looking scummy at that point; for someone who's inclined to agressivly push early day 1 wagons, that's one I'd expect them to like.

(Edit: I just realized that you probably mean the FD vote. I also don't agree that that vote was scummy; FD's response to being voted looked incredibly suspicious to me, and the fact that Froggy had the same reaction to FD's defense makes sense to me. )

Also, please remind me of what these 'scum wouldn't do it' posts are.

Well, for one example, this chain of reasoning feels like one I wouldn't expect to see from scum:

Congrats ether, that's a neat little game of semantics you're playing there.

What do you think I was trying to say?

We were talking about the presented quotes in #120. We originally thought the contradiction was imaginary but after AIM-fueled reflection came to the conclusion that the point of view Gummybear puts forth does contain an inconsistency. We however feel the inconsistency is, if anything, genuine and not the result of intentionally taking an anti-town position. We dislike the amount of reasoning put forth in #120 since, as evidenced by our position, we don't feel the relevant conclusion follows as straightforwardly as the lack of reasoning suggests.

He starts off calling out Ether on her position on Gummy's "contradiction", calling it semantics. He then thought and discussed it with his other head, and then came to the conclusion that it might not be just semantics. But he still thought that even if it was a contradiction, it probably wasn't an "intentionally anti-town" one, and still said he disliked Ether's post.

That's a very nuanced and thoughtful position; he realized he was partly wrong, but still didn't agree that Gummy's actions were actually scummy, so he said so, and expressed some concern about Ether's seeming to take for granted that it was without explaining. The whole thing looks like a pro-town person who's both honestly trying to figure out what is wrong, and honestly trying to point out what he sees as a logical flaw in a case being made; it's not the kind of post I expect scum to make. I expect scum to be much less likely to undermine their own point by admitting they were incorrect; I'd expect scum to either really go for the throat and just try to hammer the attack against Ether home, or else back off and try to disengage from the fight. He didn't do either, and I don't really see why scum would act that way.

Also, the "I didn't realize FD was at lynch -1 when I made the post, but now I am aware of it, and I want to make sure everyone else knows it" dosn't really feel like a scum move either; if FD is town, hypo-Froggy-scum would have put themselves in a more defendable position if they had just claimed that they didn't know he was at lynch -1; plus, Froggy-scum likely would have hoped that someone else didn't notice he was at lynch -1 and hammered accidentally. Yeah, a scum COULD do something like that to just try to get townie-points, but I don't really think that's the case; it dosn't look like it, and it dosn't feel like it. (Note that this is all if FD is town; in the other scenario, FD-scum, then I think there's no chance at all of Froggy-scum. There's no way those two are scum together.)

In any case, most of Froggy's posts look reasonable to me. I generally know who they suspect and who they don't, their actions make sense to me, and it just doesn't seem like they're that interested in self-preservation. (For example, the two biggest wagons today are beaverweasel and froggy, and yet he's shown absolutely no interest in supporting the other wagon, and went as far as to call beaver's action "null", while continuing to stick to his guns and go after FD despite the massive blowback he's getting here. If he was scum, I'd expect him to at the very least be positioning himself to where he could get on the beaverwagon if necessary.)

[Lord Fonzi]

(Edit: I just realized that you probably mean the FD vote. I also don't agree that that vote was scummy; FD's response to being voted looked incredibly suspicious to me, and the fact that Froggy had the same reaction to FD's defense makes sense to me. )

It looked to me like they picked any excuse they could to jump the biggest wagon out of nowhere, then retrospectively endorsed all previous criticism to make it look better. Then later started tunnelling to try to make the aforementioned look genuine. I don't see how, if they really thought FD was as scummy as they're trying to suggest today, they didn't come up with any original argument. They seem to be saying 'They were really scummy, but we happened not to notice until they were already at L-2.' It's not scummy, in general, to get annoyed when you think you're being attacked for crap reasons, and I'd say even less so for Fate who's used to getting his own way.

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

...Yos where the fuck are your scum reads???

...forget FES, the only person you found scummy thus far was a mislynch

then you start on beaverweasel, an easy target.

no i'm not having this. dana be damned. I'll carry this hydra by myself.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: YosCakeScum

FD please vote with me here. FES is scummy but Yos is way scummier.

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

also, MORE POSTING DAMNIT

this is the most inactive game on mafia scum.

[Lord Fonzi]

If you can't tell that Yos finds FD scummy, you haven't been reading properly. We disagree with their reads; but they don't look scummy to us. Their behaviour here reminds us of nothing so much as day one of lost boys, which this head is still pissed off over four years later, but was a game where Yos was town.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

...Yos where the fuck are your scum reads???

...forget FES, the only person you found scummy thus far was a mislynch

You think US is the "only person I found scummy thus far"? Really?

then you start on beaverweasel, an easy target.

Beaverweasel is probably scum. When someone lurks for 90% of the day, and the few posts they make are scummy, they're generally a great lynch; most of the time I'd rather lynch a scummy looking lurker then someone active.

I mean, I'm certanly willing to be convinced by the replacement, but for now, he's still my #1 suspect. If you think beaverweasel is town, you need to tell me why you think that, because I don't see it at all.

What the hell does "easy target" mean, anyway? Every time I've seen someone say "easy target", it seems to mean "Player X is attacking player Y because player Y looks really scummy".

[Final Destination]

-_-

DaSpot, townhunting is legitimate. As for scumhunting he has his suspect d'jour, even

I

have mentioned only one suspect today and its for a reason.

FES on the other hand has...

has.... his out-dated vote on me, who YOU think is town.
and a secondary bullshit suspicion on YOU who you KNOW is town.

Get your ass back on the right wagon. This day is ONLY stalling because of BW replacement and Lord Gurgi/GB content.

FES is the lynch.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

Fonz, FD: Now that it's over, I highly recommend you look at CES's early day 1 play in Oldy mafia, where he was pro-town, to get an idea of his meta.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15653&user_select=1563

Just look at his early posts in ISO.

Jumping on early wagons, even big early wagons, without giving much in the way of reasons, is completely in character for CES-town. Generally speaking, when he's town, he'll jump on wagons that I would be inclined to agree with, and he doesn't bother to explain why.

-Yos

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

@Greymarble, easy. Fate is very aggressive and active as town. Final Destination has not been aggressive or especially active. There's ample scum motive since his town style is hard to emulate and furthermore, we've seen him try to clean up his act in Wait your turn, Tex and the difference wasn't nearly as big there. So yep, that's a good meta-based argument.

IM GLAD YOU LINKED THAT

The reasons we had for voting Final Destination yesterday still hold. In particular, his SHOCK and HORROR at HOW DARE PEOPLE VOTE ME is so awkward and

over the top it simply doesn't look honest.

POINTS FOR WHO SPOTS THE SCUMBAG.

Our meta argument was based on your behaviour then. Obviously, once that argument has been made, you have plenty of incentive to change up your game and this in no way invalidates the early scum tell.

They seem to be saying 'They were really scummy, but we happened not to notice until they were already at L-2.'

FD didn't really catch our eye before Greymarble drew attention to them. We voted them in our next post. It may be instructive to note that the entire wagon sprung up in less than 6 hours; we were never in a position to join the wagon at an earlier point.

[Unicorn Brethren]

Unvote

No more fucking unicorn hammers

[Final Destination]

Fuck your CES town meta. I'm WELL AWARE of how CES plays. His town wagon hopping has a purpose.

He hasn't wagon hopped since he jumped on mine, and he hasn't left it or contributed anything useful to this thread.

And you're giving him a pass because of meta? What the HELL. "CES town jumps on wagon as towns, ergo herpderp if he does it EVER hes town" Yos is usually scum when he use shittastic reasoning. Still feel better about FES though

[YosFlavouredCayke]

And you're giving him a pass because of meta? What the HELL. "CES town jumps on wagon as towns, ergo herpderp if he does it EVER hes town"

Not at all. What I was saying was that Fonz's case against him, which was basically that CES jumped on a large wagon early on day 1 without giving much reasoning of his own, is not a reliable scum tell for CES.

On an unrelated note, Cayke just told me on AIM that she is going to be V/LA for a while, she's got some stuff going on and isn't going to have a chance to get caught up on the mafia game. I'll still be around though.

-Yos

[DaSpotthatkillsu]

@ FES (whenever it was you posted this)
I think that we didn't push that hard on Unicorn Brethren, and that even if we had, your apparently weak townread on UB should not make that a scumtell. Also, we STARTED the "popular" position on you.

@ FD
I would GLADLY be on the FES wagon.

unvote vote:FES

I'm just afraid my other head will want to switch it back for some reason.

[Copper]

If you're waiting, you might as well look at other issues. Going 'DERP we is gonna lurk until we drop da hammer' is no use to anyone.

This is absolutely correct.

Unicorn Brethren's playstyle can be roughly summarized as, "shitting carelessly all over the thread." As it happens, scum tend to be exceedingly careful about when and where they shit, and it's a strong town-tell on UB. This does not mean that your shit doesn't stink. Your lackadaisical behavior may look town, but it is not pro-town. Rather than posting with an inappropriate trollface to spite those who ask you contribute, think about what exactly your win condition is, and what must happen for it to be achieved.

---

Frogito Ergo Sum:

Do you think FinalDestination is going to be lynched today?

Final Destination:

What is your read on daSpot?

Daspotthatkilsu:

Your infighting stops now. The method is up to you: come to an absolute convergance in the Quicktopic, hash out an acceptable voting list between the two of you, remove voting priviledges from one head. Regardless, I refuse to accept the notion of "some reason". Disagreement between the two of you are acceptable. "Some reason" mysteries between the two of you are not.

[TheButtonmen]

Super Vanilla Townie replaces BeaverWeasle effective iimmediately and their account is already activated!

[Super Vanilla Townie]

post

We'll be reading and discussing over the next couple of days. Dunno if my partner wants to reveal himself but this is Parama posting.
Still haven't gotten role PM, so waiting on that.

[Copper]

After digging in to the identity of Super Vanilla Townie, I see there are over ten "potential heads". I don't want another Unicorn Brethren. I will no longer interpret it as "townie" to see spam without content coming from a hydra. That tell only works when the acting party does not know the view of the other players on the subject. I expect coherence and content. You have been warned.

Preview Edit: "My partner" implies that the heads have been pared to two. If so, this is pleasant news.

[Super Vanilla Townie]

I am actually not sure how many people are using this hydra for this game. I just know that it's at least one other person, that being the one who invited me to hydra for this game. I don't think it's more than 3.

[TheButtonmen]

The "Sorry for the Delay" Vote Count:

FrogErgoSum (4): Final Destination, Balam, LordFonzi, DaSpot
BeaverWeasel (3): YosFlavouredCayke, Copper, Gummybear
Final Destination (1): FrogErgoSum

Not Voting (3): BeaverWeasel, Unicorn, Greymarble

With eleven alive it's six to lynch.

[Super Vanilla Townie]

What why are there so many votes on Frog because Frog is like obvious town by page 4. Evidence when I get done posting in a few millennia.

[Copper]

Just to be clear, none of the heads that have access are in any way affiliated with any of the other players here, correct?

This is not meant to be accusatory, but, again, an attempt to aid us in reading your slot. We're confident the Mod would be aware of this beforehand, but we'd just like to get it out in the open while the topic is on the table (and given that the pace has been rather slow the past couple of days).

[Super Vanilla Townie]

I know all the players in every hydra except you (Copper) and Balam, and none of them are even remotely affiliated with this account.