Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[Truant]

It's not a change of heart, I trust Amished's scumtell (not Arishem) 100% in this occasion. Just because you're "super duper obvious scum" doesn't mean that Mer isn't either.

There can be more that one scum, and now I enjoy seeing you flail.

[MrBuddyLee]

buddy -in one of my previous posts i explained why someones attack on meransiel was unconvincing.
why bring it up again?

I explained why I brought it up again.

I can't even remember what I didnt like about the atack on Meransiel. But someone attacked meransiel on pretty flimsy grounds. I found that attack suspicious or unconvincing.

You said someone attacked Meransiel on flimsy or suspicious grounds, but you don't seem to care who that person was. If you were town, you'd care who brought it up and whether their attack was just "unconvincing" or if it was actually "suspicious". So I want to know who made the bad argument, and I want to know whether you find it suspicious or not. And by watching you explain that, I hope to better ascertain whether your defense of Meransiel is suspect or not.

[MrBuddyLee]

It's not a change of heart, I trust Amished's scumtell (not Arishem) 100% in this occasion.

I looked up this famed scumtell:

I've basically come up with a scumtell that if you *criticize* who you replaced in; you're scum.

So now, Truant, please explain in detail two things:

1) Why do you trust it to be a 100% accurate scumtell? Has it been 100% accurate in the past?
2) Did I actually commit the scumtell Amished talked about? Considering that my predecessor, Magnetic, NEVER POSTED IN THIS GAME, and I intentionally commented on his play (lack thereof) to SEE if anyone was paying attention, are you really saying that this scumtell applies to me?

[scotmany12]

I'm not buying this scumtell on buddylee. Not agreeing with it. I have seen town criticize their predecessors before.

Moz, please respond to this:

Also, this happened after I called it OMGUS so it doesn't really answer your question, but it is definitely worth pointing out to show the conradictio in mozamis's posting. He calls your reasoning for voting meranseil illogical. His last two post contains defenses about meransiel stating that posting illogically does not equate a scumtell. He posts:

This i find a bit TOO agressive, and as such, scummy. Trying to ridicule someone for wanting to be patient?

Illogical.

Plus a bit of "I'm experienced and you're a noob" from petrol.
None of which looks very town to me.

VOTE PETROLEUMJELLY

Then:

Posting illogically is not a scumtell.

So for pj posting illogically does not look like very town to him, while it's not a scumtell for meransiel.

I want to know why being illogical is a scumtell for pj but not for meransiel.

[implosion]

scotmany's 118 = wow. mozamis contradicts himself then justifies it by saying contradiction and bad logic isn't a scumtell.

I also don't see the case on MBL - there were 2 things he was accused of, lying and criticizing his predecessor... but the lying was clearly sarcastic and there's no scum motivation for criticizing his predecessor. I fail to see him as scummy, and Meransiel and mozamis are still both scummy as hell. The only thing he's done that I can see as scummy is what petroleumjelly outlined in 127, trying to put pj in a bad light, but I don't think that it's nearly as major as anything Meransiel and mozamis are saying.

Truant's sudden change to MBL is disconcerting. Truant, why do you "trust Amished's scumtell 100% in this situation?" Why do you trust it 100%, and what's so special about this situation?

OGML's sudden change is also odd. OGML, by what logic do you think that Meransiel is town? You said it's because of his interactions with mozamis... could you clarify this?

[kunkstar7]

It's not a change of heart, I trust Amished's scumtell (not Arishem) 100% in this occasion. Just because you're "super duper obvious scum" doesn't mean that Mer isn't either.

Why do you trust it 100% this occasion and not in others? That's very much just using a situational scumtell (similar to the jeeptell in regards to commenting on a power role death) to your own advantage where you see fit. Now that has scum motivation.

Unvote; Vote: Truant.

[petroleumjelly]

1.)

OhGodMyLife, for being so “excited” (more than “any game evar”) about the game and claiming to prefer playing as Town, your posts have not given me the impression that you are scumhunting very much.

2.)

Meransiel, when did you ask for Magnetic to be prodded? Please specify around what post in the game you asked for this prod.

3.)

Even though MBLwagons

are

hilarious, this particular one is pretty bad. Obvjoke is obv.

[MrBuddyLee]

My gift to lazymod:

Truant

(Mafia Bullfrog, croaked day one)

OhGodMyLife

(Mafia Poison Dart Frog, touched himself day two)

mozamis

(Mafia Non-lickable Toad, torn apart by gang of pelicans day three)

nopointinactingup

ender241

Meransiel
Tuncali
BlenBlen
Amrun
scotmany12
petroleumjelly
kunkstar7
implosion
MrBuddyLee

Magnetic

[MrBuddyLee]

Obvjoke is obv.

I was also joking about you being a weaselly lying lawyerly liar, but I suppose I should be more sensitive with those cracks. You will be a lawyer any day now, and any lying you do will be strictly by the book.

So many scummy players, so little time. Let's summarize:

* OGML for being all fired up about this game and then making town do the heavy lifting for him
* Truant for selectively applying a scumtell that doesn't even apply in this scenario
* mozamis for thin to nonexistent scumhunting and seemingly no desire to hold the feet of his "suspects" to the fire
* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamis

Need to step it up:
* BlenBlen -- actively lurking, not giving much in the way of opinions/analysis
* Amrun -- speaking in cliches and generalities. Let's see a case with some teeth from you.
* nopointinactingup -- says he's got three scum nailed down, gives exactly 0.0 good reasons
* Tuncali -- lying low after an early game flub
* scotmany -- ok for pointing out inconsistencies, needs to sell his cases better and give opinions on more players

Reading carefully and posting somewhat thoughtfully:
* implosion -- illogical by itself is not a scumtell so always be sure to point out how/why you think the bad logic furthers scum goals
* kunkstar -- made a good spot on OGML. thin analysis otherwise.
* PJ -- smells like teen spirit

[BlenBlen]

Not actively lurking, just been busy with life/lazy when it comes to mafia.

Happy with where my vote is.

The MBL wagon looked seriously weak.

I need to re-read and catchup.

[mozamis]

I'm not buying this scumtell on buddylee. Not agreeing with it. I have seen town criticize their predecessors before.

Moz, please respond to this:

I want to know why being illogical is a scumtell for pj but not for meransiel.

This may be my fault for misusing the word "illogical". Anyway, lets not derail scumhunting by getting into some abstruse argument about logic. My point was Meransial was accused of being scum because he was being patient. That seemed ridiculous. I used the word illogical.
But context is important. Along with this, PJ played an "experience" card-just seemed like he was beating up on Meransial cos he's quite new.

Dont set too much store by logic. Or by people contradicting themselves.
As I said before, town contradict themselves-or change their minds-the whole time.
I'm sure I have already. But its not a scumtell.
Its more of a feeling thing.Pj's attack on Meransial jst seemed unconvincing.
I feel my vote will probably be on BuddyLee quite soon anyway.
Gosh, am i changing my mind?

[Meransiel]

2.)

Meransiel, when did you ask for Magnetic to be prodded? Please specify around what post in the game you asked for this prod.

Quoting anything PMed to or from the mod is forbidden, you know that.

Obvjoke is obv.

* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamis

I am SURE scotsman is scum, you're just an easier lynch. But JUST as scummy as he is.

Also, what question did I avoid about mozamis?

[Meransiel]

By the way, mod, can you please post a count?

[petroleumjelly]

1.)

Meransiel, I'm not asking you to quote anything. I am asking you at what point in the game you

sent

your PM. Specifically, I would like you to tell me around what post of the game you asked for the prod. Did you ask around Post 50? Post 75? Post 100? No quoting involved. Don't ignore this, or try to skirt it again.

2.)

mozamis, did you have to find your post where you voted me before you could write up Post 160? Or did you write it from memory?

In any case:

->

a.)

I did not vote Meransiel for “being patient.” I voted him because his post looked more like posturing than helpful. His speaking of equity and patience in the first couple page of the game – basically, saying that I should not place my single vote, incapable of lynching somebody by itself – made no sense given the surrounding circumstances, and seemed like an attempt to make himself look Town by saying something he believes will sound Townish.

->

b.)

Further, implicit in his soapbox speech was the presumption that Meransiel has played through a fair deal (or read through a fair deal) of mafia games before, because he was making generalizations about how mafia games are played. But because Meransiel had already told us that he is a new player (and was only able to call Tuncali “new” because he seemed comparatively rawer to the players in Meransiel’s sole Newbie Game), it seems inconsistent to claim to be new on one breath, but then talk as if you are a veteran on how mafia games pan out in the next breath.

[petroleumjelly]

*waves at Tuncali*

I see you.

Better be a post from you by the time I get back.

[Tuncali]

I have been trying to make sense of the game so far and am having mixed results. For instance, if I must assume that petroleumjelly was not being serious in his early remarks involving BlenBlen, is it also implicit that now Meransiel is joking about being sure that two people are mafias? In such a case, since my mother tongue is not english, how am I knowing when people are serious?

[Amrun]

I think Merensial is being serious.

Have we heard from ender's replacements atall?

I wanted to do a player rn down but I won't until we finally have everyone on board.

[mozamis]

Ok, looking for most "pro-town" quotes.

Because everyone has a right to defend himself. At least, day 1-wise. You don't vote on people that don't post, you ask the mod to prod them and get them replaced. Until that happens, voting for them means voting at random. And that's fairly anti-town (though unavoidable in some cases).

As such, I won't vote for someone that never posted. I suggest you don't rush with that yourself.

Seems sensible. Doesnt want to lynch people for the hell of it. Wants to catch scum.

@blenblen, you have completely ignored moz and meransiel despite the fact that there was serious attention being paid to them by pretty much every active player. Why? Tell me what you think of each of them: scummy, or towny?

This seemed a fair comment. Lot of other people had picked up on Moz and Meransial, but not BlenBlen.

mozamis is also scummy, and they would make sense as a pair, but I'm going to stay away from pair speculation before any flips

Quite like this. He's suspicious, but staying focused on one scum at a time. In fact all of implosions POST 101 is prob. the most pro town thing i have read

Modnote: fixed tags. For future reference, the correct tag syntax is TEXT

[mozamis]

DAMN I STILL CANT DO THAT LINK THING LOL

[Shanba]

Vote Count:
3: mozamis

(OhGodMyLife, petroleumjelly, Amrun)

3: MrBuddyLee

(nopointinactingup, Meransiel, Truant)

2: Meransiel

(scotmany12, implosion)

2: Truant

(BlenBlen, kunkstar7)

1: petroleumjelly

(mozamis)

1: OhGodMyLife

(MrBuddyLee)
Not Voting:

Tuncali

Please note I am not infallible, and if there are errors in the votecount don't hesitate to point them out to me. Activity check incoming, prods will be distributed - no one is in prodding range. Good job people, keep it up

[Amrun]

Who replaced ender? Can you put it in the OP?

[MrBuddyLee]

Obvjoke is obv.

* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamis

I am SURE scotsman is scum

, you're just an easier lynch. But JUST as scummy as he is.

Are you on drugs?

Vote: scotsman12

for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.

Hmm...like most people, I agree that MrBuddyLee's opening post was scummy as hell and

my vote was sitting on a player I didn't think was scum anyway

, so...

Vote: MrBunnyLee

You just said you didn't think scotsman was scum and now you say you're SURE he's scum?

You're a goddamned train wreck. Please explain your seemingly constant contradictions. What are your exact positions on mozamis and scotsman?

[Meransiel]

1.)

Meransiel, I'm not asking you to quote anything. I am asking you at what point in the game you

sent

your PM. Specifically, I would like you to tell me around what post of the game you asked for the prod. Did you ask around Post 50? Post 75? Post 100? No quoting involved. Don't ignore this, or try to skirt it again.

I didn't try to skirt anything. I just don't see the point in telling you something you can't verify. But here: post 80, give or take.

In any case:

->

a.)

I did not vote Meransiel for “being patient.” I voted him because his post looked more like posturing than helpful. His speaking of equity and patience in the first couple page of the game – basically, saying that I should not place my single vote, incapable of lynching somebody by itself – made no sense given the surrounding circumstances, and seemed like an attempt to make himself look Town by saying something he believes will sound Townish.

->

b.)

Further, implicit in his soapbox speech was the presumption that Meransiel has played through a fair deal (or read through a fair deal) of mafia games before, because he was making generalizations about how mafia games are played. But because Meransiel had already told us that he is a new player (and was only able to call Tuncali “new” because he seemed comparatively rawer to the players in Meransiel’s sole Newbie Game), it seems inconsistent to claim to be new on one breath, but then talk as if you are a veteran on how mafia games pan out in the next breath.

No, I didn't do that. You are jut feeling like I did. That's just the way I speak most of the time.
Also, about the experience bit. I have played elsewhere, just not in mafia-oriented sites. And I didn't comment on Tuncali as being "raw" or "newbish", but straight up stupid. (Tuncali, in case you want to strangle me, notice the past tense)

Obvjoke is obv.

* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamis

I am SURE scotsman is scum

, you're just an easier lynch. But JUST as scummy as he is.

Are you on drugs?

Vote: scotsman12

for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.

Hmm...like most people, I agree that MrBuddyLee's opening post was scummy as hell and

my vote was sitting on a player I didn't think was scum anyway

, so...

Vote: MrBunnyLee

You just said you didn't think scotsman was scum and now you say you're SURE he's scum?

You're a goddamned train wreck. Please explain your seemingly constant contradictions. What are your exact positions on mozamis and scotsman?

Are YOU on drugs? My vote was on mozamis when I voted you! If you don't believe me, check the most recent vote count before that reply!

Though, you making this mistake gives kind of a town read...man this is hard...

[petroleumjelly]

Meransiel, MrBuddyLee is completely right. You had changed your vote from mozamis to scotsman12 in Post 102 on Friday evening, saying you were "sure" he was scum. Then you changed your vote to MrBuddyLee on Sunday morning, saying you were not really suspicious of the player you were voting. So please, do explain.

[petroleumjelly]

And by the way, Meransiel, the reason I wanted to know the time-frame of your requested prod was to check if you had selectively chosen to request a prod on one player (Magnetic) over another player -- e.g., ender241, who had not posted until page 3 of the game. Even though I cannot verify your request, there were answers you could have given that would not have reflected well on you. As it happens, Post 80 is an acceptable time-frame.