The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

@ FES (whenever it was you posted this)
I think that we didn't push that hard on Unicorn Brethren, and that even if we had, your apparently weak townread on UB should not make that a scumtell. Also, we STARTED the "popular" position on you.

@ FD
I would GLADLY be on the FES wagon.

unvote vote:FES

I'm just afraid my other head will want to switch it back for some reason.

We don't have a weak townread on Unicorn Brethren, we have a strong townread on Unicorn Brethren and (actually rather more importantly) if you look around, we're hardly unique in that position. UB is, on the other hand, a very easy target. And you pushed him pretty damn hard. You called him out for inconsistency, voted him, posted things like this and this, but then suddenly turn around and post this? Like, in that post he says they FoSsed him because "His first few posts in the game threw us off." when if you actually read the post containing the FoS, that's not what happened at all.

I mean, how can you make posts like this and say you weren't pushing UB hard? Also you didn't START the popular position on us. You're the third vote on the wagon, after Untrod Stranger and Final Destination (both of whom wrote up cases that are now the backbone of the case on us.) That's very definitely not starting a position.

Frogito Ergo Sum:

Do you think FinalDestination is going to be lynched today?

We think the lynch is possible, but not likely. It's an issue we're aware of, but we feel FD vs. us isn't going to go away and the only real alternative (Beaverweasel/SVT) is not a good lynch (since we need to do better than random.)

[Super Vanilla Townie]

The SVT hydra is myself (InflatablePie) and Parama.

*waves*

Content later and whatnot.

[YosFlavouredCayke]

I'm seriously considering moving my vote over to DaSpot here, although it'll depend on the quality of posting we get from SVT once he catches up.

-Yos

[Final Destination]

PARAMA?

[Final Destination]

PARAMA?

calling FES TOWN?

THATS A 100% SOLID SCUMTELL RIGHT THERE. PARAMA IS ALWAYS FUCKING HORRIBLE WITH READS. HE GETS SOME SORT OF TWISTED FUCKING JOY OUT OF CALLING MY SCUMREADS 100% TOWN AND THEN BEING COMPLETELY AND HORRIBLY WRONG WHEN THEY FLIP.

OH AND LOOK NOW AT FES SCROUNGING UP SOME CONTENT BY SCUMHUNTING A RETARDED HYDRA.

*GOLFCLAP*

[Copper]

Final Destination: What is your read on daSpot?

[Final Destination]

Town mislynch+Vig fodder. Dies before LyLo, not sooner not later.

[Copper]

Okay.

Frogito Ergo Sum: Let's play a game. Your next post will contain an unvote.

[Lord Fonzi]

First things first:

Unvote: Frogito Ergo Scum; Vote: Gummybear

. Also this head would like to request a

Prod on Gummybear

.

The Frogito Ergo Scum wagon strikes this head as a contrived day one wagon. Unfortunately for us, it happens to be day two, and this town has already had its silly lynch for the game. This head plays with CES and Shanba a good deal, which is why this hydra was for his lynch earlier. However now this hydra is divided on the issue of his alignment. This head in particular feels that the defense that Frogito Ergo Scum is employing is indicative of town in the cases of both CES and Shanba. Likely what is happening is that Shanba is seeing more air in that hydra, which is doubtless a good thing.

In Post 412 and 415 it strikes me that Balam and Gummybear are teaming up far too readily to attack YosFlavouredCake. The argument in its entirety fails to account for the fact that most of the people who have played with Ether can read her exceptionally easily, especially players such as Yosarian who have played with her extensively. This head thinks that it's a puerile argument to go after someone both for successfully finding town and for the proposition of townhunting in general. If you know that he is being at least moderately successful in his efforts, it ought to undermine your argument that townhunting is an unproductive pursuit. At any rate, this head finds both Yosarian and Cay to be town.

Final Destination needs to calm down fast. At first this hydra was inclined to agree, and my other head may or may not still believe that Final Destination is town, but this head will see any continued lunacy from Final Destination as a scum tell. From experience, one of the best ways to hide alignment is to froth at the mouth. Unless some reasonableness makes an appearance in his posts, this head does not intend to give him a free pass for meta reasons any longer. Also please just end the entirely unnecessary false dialogues.

Now to where this hydra agrees: Gummybear. We both feel that Gummybear has been lurking for some time now. This head is exceptionally busy, and my other head has a life as well. This head finds it suspect that neither head has been able to log a post in some time, and this is not the first time that Gummybear has become inactive. As it stands, this head challenges anyone to think of a stance of Gummybear's other than anti-YosFlavouredCake posts. The only thing that Gummybear has chosen to attack in the case of other players is a playstyle choice in YosFlavouredCake. It's a classic cop out. Effectively they make a post every few weeks that is a wall of text but then drop off the map riding off the protection that provides. Gummybear is a scummier-looking lurker than for example BeaverWeasel who has since replaced out. This head suspects that Gummybear will continue to limp along in the thread, making a contribution every week or so rather than replace out, because they aren't actually facing problems.

Other minor things...

This head agrees with my other head with regards to Unicorn Brethren, and in fact also agrees with Copper. It begs mention that the only thing that Unicorn Brethren can agree on is an overeager hammer. Same thing yesterday, in fact.

While talking about Copper, this head will also second the call for DaSpotthatkillsu to get their stuff together.

Just a preemptive request of Super Vanilla Townie, please condense your posts rather than spread them out.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Super ninja prod dodge.

Unfortunately, for the past few days, I've been neglecting this game, so I have no idea what's going on apart from getting a spiffy replacement (hullo there, InflatablePie and Parama). QuickTopic's been quiet, too, which is probably why nobody has taken over. I'll be out from Tuesday through Friday to take care of some heavy-duty writing assignments, so I'mma ask if any of the other two heads can take over for those days.

OK. So, gonna start catching up, like, now. If I don't come back within the next 2-3 hours, I fully expect to see knives flying my way.

[Final Destination]

[AGM]

Hi, this is the AGM head checking back in. Nice to see that Fate has kept things under control while I was gone. And by under control, I mean not really. Now that we've each had our chance to rage, hopefully we can keep things equalized from now on.

In any case, though, FES has certainly not reduced his scumminess. I'll talk things over with Fate and see if we've got anything else important to say.

[Lord Fonzi]

If I don't come back within the next 2-3 hours, I fully expect to see knives flying my way.

Quoted for posterity.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Balam will not be V/LA this week.

Speaking from a group perspective: We're in much more agreement regarding town reads than scum reads right now. There's some disagreement about YosFlavouredCayke, and I don't think I'll last very long in the QuickTopic once I've pulled this particular stunt (see below). AGar still likes having Frogito Ergo Sum's collective neck in a knot. I don't think RayFrost has changed his stance on YosFlavouredCayke since Green Shirt Thursday, but I haven't heard him say anything about them since. Personally, I'm undecided^(!) on who's scum because I have yet to do the player-by-player analyses that I've been meaning to do since last week. I'll spend a few hours on those before I go poof for the week.

From a personal standpoint, I don't see YosFlavouredCayke-scum anymore. In addition to what has already been said about the idea of YosFlavouredCayke killing Pathetric, there's another angle to Pathetric's death: BeaverWeasel mentioned toward the end of the day how the two were acting like masons. I had the same thought, so it isn't unreasonable to suppose scum did, as well. Welp, they were wrong, but they've cleared YosFlavouredCayke by happy accident. This is my final say on the matter.

I love it when I pull 180s. *ducks*

Now that I've caught up... I don't have much else to say. I'm going to go reread the cases against Frogito Ergo Sum and then the whole Final Destination-Frogito Ergo Sum deal now. Not understanding why I'm sitting on a wagon is bad, even if my fellow heads do.

I've learned a lesson today: A game in which one plays as a hydra is still a full game and not one-half or one-third... or one-sixth. Yep. Urk.

Preview edit: Hi, Lord Fonzi.

[Balam]

Also...

Prod: Greymarble

I really want to prod Unicorn Brethren, too, but it's only been 2 days since they posted trollface.jpg. Grr.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

AGar and RayFrost have spoken and agree with my YosFlavouredCayke read. Yay for progress.

In fact, I think we've had more progress this evening (morning now, where did my precious sleep go) than the past 2 days. This feeling of accomplishment is awesome.

The heads approve of Lord Fonzi's push toward GummyBear. Since Day 1's fresh on my mind, I'm going to take a moment to point out that GummyBear is in the enviable position of being able to communicate 24/7, and they emphasized the need to coordinate reads during their argument with Pathetric. Of all the hydrae in the game, I'd expect those two to have the least amount of problems coordinating and posting.

On Day 1 reread, I like Final Destination's reaction to Greymarble, dislike Frogito Ergo Sum's efforts to stick to a meta case already debunked, and disagree with YosFlavouredCayke that the case against Frogito Ergo Sum at the end of the day was "weak." The meta case Greymarble pushed was bull from the start, and Greymarble themselves retracted it once they got a rise out of Final Destination. No point riding its coattails after that. Others read as townish or under the radar. Will have to parse GummyBear's postings later.

...guh. I was going to keep going alllll the way to page 19, but it's almost 7 in the morning, and I have not slept. Needless to say, I'm totally spent. I'll continue this upon my return.

AGar! RayFrost! I leave this to you~

For everyone else, I give you this to work with.

Kill the following: Frogito Ergo Sum, Super Vanilla Townie (but let InflatableParama have their fill first), GummyBear

I've got everyone else on varying degrees of town, so yay.

SLEEP NAO.

[Balam]

(AGar)

Pardon the schizophrenia here. I feel the need to press an issue a bit.

@YFC

You're doing a good amount of townhunting. This is completely acceptable. But the only read I've gathered from you to be anti-town is Final Destination. I'm interested in at least 1 other scumread, if not more, that you have.

Other than that, I'll be handling more posting load come tomorrow for a bit.

[Balam]

The frostiness checking in. AGar and myself will both be posting during the period of time that equinox is unavailable. I won't be marking who I am in the future merely as a point of laziness on my part.

To expand upon AGar's tid-bit towards YFC: we like town reads and all, but town reads are easy to give. If you have collected enough of them, you should be able to start actually finding scum via some scumreads in tandem with your PoE. There's a limit to the effectiveness of townhunting when it comes to our ability to read you based off of your reads. Aside from that is the fact that you can't just go around defusing all of the wagons without providing a wagon or two that you would support. The lynch is the town's biggest weapon, so who do you propose we use it on?

Also: AGar, I thought I was supposed to be the posting head until wednesday? Not that I'm complaining.

[Lord Fonzi]

We find the previous post to be disengenuous. It is simply untrue to argue that YFC has not 'provided a wagon or two they would support.' BeaverWeasel who they were voting before, and Final Destination come to mind. It's certainly easier to recall who they suspect than say... Gummybear.

Furthermore, we are somewhat confused by their 'liking our push toward gummybear' and off of FES, and yet they themselves stay on FES. If they think FES is the best lynch, then we can't see why they'd like us moving off, on the other hand if they think Gummy is scummier than FES, we can't see why they wouldn't have followed.

[Unicorn Brethren]

Whoever made our last few posts clearly off their rocker. That, or they didn't read the thread, which I find slightly more likely. That being said, it's definitely possible that both are the case. Not to mention alcohol, and Fritz drinks a lot, so it was probably him.

I know we never called him town but we thought he was very town, aka our stance on FES being scum yesterday.

Bullshit.

This is a lie. You were voting YosCayke and pushing their wagon for most of Day 1 and you were still doing it at the end.

Confirm vote: Final Destination

Confirm votes are for fags.

And for scum, but etc.

Also, I wanted to ask DaSpot about this:

.... you all are idiots.

He said this after the hammer, but before the alignment reveal. Re-reading his earlier posts, he did at one point briefly mention that he thought US was pro-town, but he never really tried to defend him or argue against the wagon, even though he was around while it was building up. It just seems odd to me; DaSpot, if you guys were THAT sure that the US wagon was going to be a bad one, why didn't you try harder to stop it?

-Yos

Good catch. Still think daspot needs to swing. Don't know why Untrod Stranger was lynched instead of him. Didn't really approve of my other head's hammer, but that's immaterial. It was done and now it's done. But daspot does not make it to LYLO, k.

Balam is town due to #376. As for your question to us in #378: Another head wrote that, no idea which. Don't really care either, and don't think it's important.

Re: Copper talking about FD's "town frustration" not easily being faked, apparently they've not played enough with Fate or AGM. It's easily fakeable, especially by either of those two. Learn to read scum townfaking. Not to say its not possible they're town, but don't use townie frustration as a towntell from either of them.

In all likelihood, FES and FD are scumbuddies, and FD is looking for town cred by bussing. There. Since it's been said now, nobody should fall for that shit. If I'm NK'd I swear on all that is holy you retards better kill them both.


I agree with Copper's read on us. But a simple "UB is town" would have easily sufficed, versus this entire wall:

Unicorn Brethren:

Have you ever planned a surprise party? You’ll have dozens of people in on the secret - but they don’t all pull the weight equally, do they? That’s a recipe for disaster.

No, there’s always "the organizer." Whenever anyone has an idea about the party, they know who to call. The same person set up the plan to get them out of the house, ordered the food and drinks, planned the entertainment. There’s a reason for this: when you’re trying to keep a secret, you want as few moving parts as possible.

As far as secrets go, plotting to kill innocent townspeople is, at its’ heart, not all that different from planning a surprise party. You have a secret, and you have someone (in this case, many someones) you wish to keep it from. If Unicorn Brethren had a scum role PM, the organizer would step forward. He (I use the masculine pronoun for simplicity, but certainly Stefunny could fill this role as well as anyone) would quickly order in QT, "No posting without clearing it by me." He’d have a plan for interacting with the scumbuddies. He’d have rules about a consistent style. And he would be responsible for the majority of the posts in the thread.

What do we have instead? Unadulterated chaos. There appears to be little significant QT communication; instead, any player can apparently pick up the account and idly spam as they will. Now, ask yourself, why do you think they’re doing this?

The answer is simple. They have a town role PM, and they subscribe to the school of thought that "If you have a town role PM, any actions you take are pro-town actions."

Is this philosophy correct? No. Am I happy with their lurking and vote hoping without substance? No. Are they scum? Absolutely not. Scum Unicorn Brethern would not saunter in to "bringethh the hammer." Unicorn Brethren is not playing like they have a secret to hide.

It's rather easy to see that: Either that's scum looking for ultimate buddying rights with us, along with an "I told you so" when we flip, AND just looking to pad out the post with extra verbiage... or it's town with waaayyyyy too much time on their hands, and not much stock put into to the timeless adage "Succinctness is pro-town". TL;DR: Copper is scum.

Vote: Copper

Fate buddying with Copper is to be expected. Fate buddies with the most pro-town players in any game regardless of his own alignment.

FES #394 makes very good points. Maybe not a fag after all. But I'm keeping my back to a wall.

Perhaps you should throw a vote down before throwing out such impetuous threats.

This kind of uppity statement smacks of MagnaofIllusion. Hi, MoI. /wave

THE CASE AGAINST FES IS TERRIBLE.

Hi. This.

This is an obligatory post in green.

[snip]

Content, not mystery, unicorns. That is the key to gouging the scum and feasting upon their (possibly nubile) flesh.

How's this post? ... Now be a good boy and change your vote to Copper if you know what's good for you.

I am glad that GreyMarble has unvoted. With three non-voters, and one of those players completely absent from the thread all of Day Two, ending the day now would be shockingly premature.

If you're glad that GreyMarble unvoted, then why didn't you

yourself

unvote? You had plenty of chance to do so. But oh wait. You were just actively looking for a mislynch, but now you're looking for town cred when it looks like you won't be able to push it through.

#425 by Fate is worthless. Learn to make cases without CAPITAL LETTERS and RANDOM-ASS CONJECTURE. That'd probably be a good start.

Fonzi's #427 quip to us is warranted. Stand by for further rectification.

@ Daspot #430: What does Yos-scum have to gain from either buddying with either FES-scum

OR

FES-town? Hint: Nothing.

I like #458, generally speaking. It's got a lot of content, and a lot of it is good content. Go read it. Especially the parts about FD and FES.

#461 happening literally seconds before #462 is pretty funny, tbqh.

I completely disagree with the "kill the following" list in Balam.Equinox's post #464 at this juncture. Haven't seen what you've seen, apparently. Care to explain your scum reads on FES, SVT, and GB a little more? And yes, 180s are usually bad. Though this hydra seems to do its fair share, I can't exactly control that, and I still feel un-hypocritical in calling you out on yours.

[Greymarble]

Prodded.
I read Danaspot a bit ago and think they're town. I'll do some more reading tonight.

-Llama

[Final Destination]

Vote: Copper

Badposting.

Hey I wonder if REAPER is the one that voted the most pro-town player in the game to satisfy his own ego! "Fufufufufuuf I Caught COPPERSCUM!"

Yeah no. Stop wasting our fucking time.

[Greymarble]

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Be back in a bit.

Copper votes are right up the Bretheran's alley. You may consider that name nominated as soon as the thread unlocks

[Super Vanilla Townie]

I'm sorely tempted to just let Parama do all the catchup work for us. :U

I'm only up to p9 or 10. This game is quite uninteresting so far.

I'll post my thoughts when I finish catching up completely.

[Balam]

We find the previous post to be disengenuous. It is simply untrue to argue that YFC has not 'provided a wagon or two they would support.' BeaverWeasel who they were voting before, and Final Destination come to mind. It's certainly easier to recall who they suspect than say... Gummybear.

Furthermore, we are somewhat confused by their 'liking our push toward gummybear' and off of FES, and yet they themselves stay on FES. If they think FES is the best lynch, then we can't see why they'd like us moving off, on the other hand if they think Gummy is scummier than FES, we can't see why they wouldn't have followed.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. My issue is the fact I've found YFC pushing far harder at protecting their town reads than they have at actually getting us to lynch their scum reads. The two should come together rather than YFC focusing so heavily on one or the other. I might be misremembering, but YFC hasn't really one much in providing of cases for their scum reads to try and get people to vote with them.

We can like a push to someone we think is scummy even if you are moving away from someone we think is scum. We have a scum-flavored null read on gummybear, so your push there is :goodposting: just as a push towards FES would be :goodposting:. Your last point there seems a bit confusing to

me

. Why can't we have multiple suspects and support the pressuring of one of them while we go after the other again?

Will read the UB text wall after this commercial break.

[Balam]

Re: Copper talking about FD's "town frustration" not easily being faked, apparently they've not played enough with Fate or AGM. It's easily fakeable, especially by either of those two. Learn to read scum townfaking. Not to say its not possible they're town, but don't use townie frustration as a towntell from either of them.

In all likelihood, FES and FD are scumbuddies, and FD is looking for town cred by bussing. There. Since it's been said now, nobody should fall for that shit. If I'm NK'd I swear on all that is holy you retards better kill them both.
[snippity snip snip]
It's rather easy to see that: Either that's scum looking for ultimate buddying rights with us, along with an "I told you so" when we flip, AND just looking to pad out the post with extra verbiage... or it's town with waaayyyyy too much time on their hands, and not much stock put into to the timeless adage "Succinctness is pro-town". TL;DR: Copper is scum.

Vote: Copper

Fate buddying with Copper is to be expected. Fate buddies with the most pro-town players in any game regardless of his own alignment.

Being someone who has played with fate-scum an (IIRC) fate-town, I can inform you that FD is more likely town from a meta-basis, but I'm more than willing to look and see if you'll actually provide a case on them. The fact you go from "FD maaaay be town, but you really should not assume anything from this particular aspect of their play" to "FD / FES scumteam with bussing, KILL THEM ALL" to "Copper is scum" really makes me itch. It's bad, unsupported, an doesn't flow naturally together. Your reasoning for finding Copper scum is essentially "Copper wrote a lot" - being verbose is hardly an attribute that can be slotted to scum or town. If you'd like evidence, I can link you to the numerous text walls I've performed upon replacing in to numerous games as town.

I also don't understand how the bolded works with your "COPPER / FES / FD" scumteam claim.

This is an obligatory post in green.

[snip]

Content, not mystery, unicorns. That is the key to gouging the scum and feasting upon their (possibly nubile) flesh.

How's this post? ... Now be a good boy and change your vote to Copper if you know what's good for you.

It's terribly lacking, so no thank you.

I am glad that GreyMarble has unvoted. With three non-voters, and one of those players completely absent from the thread all of Day Two, ending the day now would be shockingly premature.

If you're glad that GreyMarble unvoted, then why didn't you

yourself

unvote? You had plenty of chance to do so. But oh wait. You were just actively looking for a mislynch, but now you're looking for town cred when it looks like you won't be able to push it through.

If Copper was not online upon the arrival of the near-lynching, then how would Copper have unvoted at the time? Copper came in

after

GM unvoted. Your reasoning here is still slip shod and stretching to the utmost to fit a Copper-scum frame.

I completely disagree with the "kill the following" list in Balam.Equinox's post #464 at this juncture. Haven't seen what you've seen, apparently. Care to explain your scum reads on FES, SVT, and GB a little more? And yes, 180s are usually bad. Though this hydra seems to do its fair share, I can't exactly control that, and I still feel un-hypocritical in calling you out on yours.

Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT. As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate. This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.