Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[Rhinox]

Votecount 1.10

andrew94 (0) -
Xalxe (0) -
neil1113 (0) -
P.T. Barnum (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Jerbs (2) - Jinxx, P.T. Barnum
mikemike778 (0) -
Idiotking (0) -
Jinxx (0) -
Voidedmafia (0) -
Cecily (0) -
havingfitz (5) - mikemike778, pappums rat, Jahudo, Idiotking, Cecily
pappums rat (4) - Voidedmafia, havingfitz, andrew94, neil1113

not voting (2): Jerbs, Xalxe

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday, March 30 at 9:00AM EST.

[Voidedmafia]

all right folks, here's the dealy-o. to believe that i am scum, you would have to believe that scum would be willing to pull a suicidal move like that

and

at the same time repeatedly tell people not to mislynch

and

tell everyone your pm said you were sane (giving you no option to claim that your sanity was not assured after the supposed vm townflip). to believe havingfitz is scum, you would need to believe scum would want to policy lynch someone who he claims is a vi, thereby bringing about a shorter day without any real scumhunting (which is good for scum)

and

endorse quicklynching vm after a suspicious early day one claim without scumhunting (once again, good for scum)

and

endorse lynching someone for using a gambit under the pretense of lynch all liars without scumhunting (are we seeing a trend, here?).

the whole point of my gambit was to see the reactions people would have to there being a confirmed scum cornered, and then after the gambit was lifted people could scumhunt by looking for suspicious reactions. havingfitz has made every attempt to make this day shorter than it should be, which is antitown and scummy. the fact is that havingfitz has done no real scumhunting at all, and has been avoiding doing so all day. obvscum is obvious. moar votes plz.

I think I could safely say that this entire post--or at least the first paragraph--is one big can of WIFOM. There's just SO MANY WAYS you can interpret nearly everything in that first paragraph as well as the paragraph as a whole, and plenty to go back on if needed.

As for the 2nd paragraph, it was still a lie. Granted, fitz at the very least suggested a pl of andrew and advocated quicklynching me, but I do agree that his comments towards andrew are justified in some cases. Of course, if I WAS scum and Rat's claim WAS true, I can see why he'd want to get me lynched as quickly as possible. He might need a good re-read if he's not lynched or NK'd today, but I'm still keeping my vote where it is.

[Rhinox]

Xalxe has been prodded.

[andrew94]

for gods sake, we have enough reactions to rat's 'gambit'. now we need progress

progress involves a lynch and a flip (on rats)

more tie = disttaction and wifom

[neil1113]

Might I just say, this idea of a Pappums lynch right now is unnerving considering the people on his case.

One is a very incompetent player altogether.
One is the most suspicious player according to the town (by ratio of votes)
One almost got lynched because of Pappums gambit, and his case has a very suspicious OMGUS feel to it...

Altogether I must say, while I disagree with Pappums case against Fitz, I have yet to read a decent case against him to sway my vote. Would anyone like to try? I'm willing to reconsider my position on him should you attempt at making a case that isn't "what he said!" or some type of verbal agreement, but rather actually laying out the points. The only person I saw close to doing this was Pappums, and I already commented on his case.

Also for the people NOT voting Pappums, do you believe he is scummy? Why or why not?

[Jinxx]

Sorry all, if I can't find time to make a decent post by wednesday, I will have to replace out.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm at school right now, so I can provide an ISO once I get home and get my chores done.

[havingfitz]

I can't argue with IK...his name says it all. He is either being very lazy or obtuse. Or he is scum which I am starting to believe. Your recent points on me do not hold any water and I will save town from another wallpost (this time) as I have made my points to all your accusations already I believe. Speaking of not holding water...

---

@Jahudo...this comment, "You trusted pappums. You are scum." is absurd. I trusted pappums because he was in a cut and dry position that was provable. Now he is in a cut and dry position in that he lied to town. And why does your ~formula not apply to the others who put their vote on Void after pappums' lie?

What does it matter what gambits I have seen? I stated I have not seen any like pappums'. Does it matter that I have seen people claim PGO on D1 to avoid night actions (both as town and scum)? I have obviously seen scum fakeclaim PRs...usually to no avail. I have also seen town make dreadful PR claims which usually resulted in their lynching (when caught), some of which have forced the real PRs to counterclaim and out themselves. None which implicated another player that I recall though.

Of the gambits you have provided, the Karma game was a good example but is not like this game in that 1 ) it occurred on the 3rd day when players had had a chance to assess/form opinions on each other and 2) ABR allowed his claim to result in a lynch (which he got lucky with). Karma was similar to this game in that two players immediately (blindly?) laid down votes following ABR's fake claim. No gambit talk or anything...and the voters were town.

The 2nd game you provide (which is ongoing so I am hesitant to discuss too much) was a similar "gambit" in that it occurred D1 (albeit later in the day) but was different in that two players were implicated...so there was still debate to be made. I would not have advocated a ql in this case. It should also be noted that votes were immediately cast as a result of the gambit, it only went on for 7-8 hrs, the gambitor somehow knew his targets alignment (??he called them both town??) AND the person suspected as a result of the gambit and lynched D1 was town. I also note that you and pappums are in that game.

As for the 3rd game...which I note you are in...if the fakeclaim I think you are referring to is correct...it was that someone else was town. Hardly the type of vote that would immediately produce a lynch so not relevant to this game. If your were referring to a different fakeclaim in this game please feel free to point it out.

The fact is though...I have not been in a game where town fakeclaimed a PR that implicated someone else as scum and was therefore easily proven.

Also...has anyone been in a game where given the result of a lynch...a town entering MYLO immediately conducted a No-lynch without discussion (ie a ql)? That was the same effect I was proposing with our post-lie/pre-confession ~confirmed scum Void.

---

@cecily. What? IK and pappums cases on me are pathetic. Please state yours after you have read theirs and my responses. And why do you state you think pappums is not scum and then follow that up by discrediting his 'gambit' plan? That makes no sense as does (not) your vote on me. Please state your case. If you are lazy time-consumed town, do town a favor and replace out. Otherwise play to your wincon (which if you are scum you are doing well atm).

[Idiotking]

Fitz, could you at least try to be civil when posting? Talking down to others who are arguing against you is (as I've said before) very childish. I am not an idiot. I'd

like

for you to actually respond to my argument instead of devolving into insults. Alternatively, if you've already responded to my points in previous posts, could you direct me to them? I'd rather not wade through that wallpost mess again.

[Idiotking]

Also, what makes you think that I am scum?

[havingfitz]

IK...I didn't pick your name. Feel free to say I'm having fits.

I have 5 people voting me, 4 of whom (sans Cecily) have made some effort to present cases which are basically regurgitating some or all of the same main points. In summary (and if I am leaving anything out...anyone can feel free to add):

- Early PL statements re: andrew
- Belief of pappums' lie
- Push to q/l Void
- Switch to pappums' wagon after he confessed and/or supporting LaL

I have addressed each of these points at least once and most likely several times. ISO me.

Everything else is iirc is based on opinion and WIFOM of how both pappums and I would or wouldn't act as town or scum....conjecture.

IDK who is or isn't town or scum. The only thing I do know is that pappums lied, derailed genuine scumhunting, and is pushing a mislynch based on his lie. I have also provided additional suspicions of me for anyone actually reading the game.

You are scum because the case you have presented is crap and I'm confident you could do better if you tried...if a case actually existed. I responded to your first accusations you made with your vote. Your second post of accusations was even worse and primarily (if not completely) based on your opinion and WIFOM.

[Jerbs]

all right folks, here's the dealy-o. to believe that i am scum, you would have to believe that scum would be willing to pull a suicidal move like that

and

at the same time repeatedly tell people not to mislynch

and

tell everyone your pm said you were sane (giving you no option to claim that your sanity was not assured after the supposed vm townflip). to believe havingfitz is scum, you would need to believe scum would want to policy lynch someone who he claims is a vi, thereby bringing about a shorter day without any real scumhunting (which is good for scum)

and

endorse quicklynching vm after a suspicious early day one claim without scumhunting (once again, good for scum)

and

endorse lynching someone for using a gambit under the pretense of lynch all liars without scumhunting (are we seeing a trend, here?).

the whole point of my gambit was to see the reactions people would have to there being a confirmed scum cornered, and then after the gambit was lifted people could scumhunt by looking for suspicious reactions. havingfitz has made every attempt to make this day shorter than it should be, which is antitown and scummy. the fact is that havingfitz has done no real scumhunting at all, and has been avoiding doing so all day. obvscum is obvious. moar votes plz.

WIFOM

[Rhinox]

Searching for a replacement for Xalxe. Will try to get a "just in case" lined up for Jinxx as well.

[Rhinox]

Moving trucks arrive in the neighborhood. A for sale sign appears in a yard, and Xalxe hops into the truck and drives away, silently. The sign reads, "Free House, Take it!" Moments later, a new truck arrives. Pine jumps out, removes the sign, and moves his stuff in.

Pine is replacing Xalxe. Everybody thank and welcome him!

[Pine]

Hullo. I have class in 12 minutes, so I'll read over what I missed and get an assessment up later this evening.

Unvote

Don't know who Xalxe had his vote on, but I'll make up my own mind.

[P.T. Barnum]

The havingfitz wagon is boring. Can we get a wagon on Jerbs, please? Unless someone wants to point out something town-like in his posts, that would be okay too.

[Pine]

I guess we should get things moving.
I'd like to ask some questions, just because we can't stay in RVS forever unfortunately.
1. When are you most likely to be posting?
2. How would you describe your play style?

I like RQS as introductions of new players, so I'll answer these from way back at the start of the thread.
1) I keep batshit crazy hours, EST. A student's schedule allows me to sleep late, stay up, and generally let my natural circadian rhythm dictate my sleep/wake cycle, so long as I make class on time and don't fall asleep during it.
2) I have a

lot

of experience with the live version of the game, but only about 50% of what one learns in the live game is applicable in this format. I'm a new scummer and still adapting. Lately I've found what works for me is to focus on one person at a time, dissect and analyze everything they do and have done, and see if a case holds together. If it doesn't, I move on. I'm generally not a fan of popular wagons or sheeping, but if I feel it is justified or that someone needs pressure, I'll hop on. As each day phase winds down, I will look at the feasible lynches and go with the best choice, regardless of whether they're my current target. I'm fond of walls, but also of short remarks on other peoples' posts. I detest lurking and non-contribution, and I don't like speed-lynching until the day begins to stagnate. Also, I don't think Xalxe was an especially effective player, so don't be surprised if I am radically different in opinions, votes, and style to him.

On to my first vote!

...

jeez pappums, and here I thought we had a scum wrapped up 100%. Now it's only, like 50% or so.

My reaction: pappums is town. If he were scumgambiting, he would have no reason not to let the wagon run its course and then claim "lol insane cop my bad lololololol." So yeah.

Voided...is iffy, I really need to reread his postings.

Also, UNVOTE: Voidedmafia

I completely disagree with my predecessor. Not only could and would scum do this, but this could be a near-brilliant scum tactic. Ramp up a wagon based on a PR claim, get the victim super-defensive. "Confess" at the last minute, because as we all know, there are no insane cops in Normal Minis. If he HADN'T confessed, he'd be immediately lynched D2 for being exposed in an irretrievable lie. The way he did it, he's seen as towngambiting. I don't buy it. Lynch All Liars, because there was NO Pro-Town reason for this gambit at this time. My interpretation is reinforced by post 179.

VOTE: pappums rat

PR is either scum or

counter

productive town. Either is an acceptable D1 lynch.

I could also support a Jerbs wagon to nudge him into a more productive state, but I've played with him before and this IS his established meta, though I find it illogical and unproductive.

[Jerbs]

@Pine

I'm usually not like this, it's just that I was v/la for a bit and never got fully back into mafia. I've been trying to pick it up but I've just been unable to commit to this game, or the one that we were in.

Request a replacement

I'm detrimental to this town and am not helping. Sorry for putting whoever replaces me in a bad position, but I need a break from mafia

Looking for a replacement now. Wish you the best.

[Pine]

Sorry to hear that, Jerbs. Good luck.

[andrew94]

someone claim one shot day cop with rats guilty and speed this lynch up {joke}

[neil1113]

But Jerbs... I was looking forward to talking with you. Way to crush my hopes and dreams.

Also guys, we only have 1 week left. We need to at least be laying our cards on the table as far as who are going to be the capable lynches that most of the town agrees on for Day 1....

My vote is Pappums, Fitz, Jerbs in the order of first to last as far as who I feel most comfortable lynching. Jerbs is really just because he's replacing, and I hate replacements. (Not the people, the act. Lol)

[havingfitz]

P.T.....if a boring wagon is a bad wagon, then by all means, my wagon is boring.

I agree Jerbs has done squat so far but that is a poor reason for anyone to be voting him (especially now that he has decided to replace out). Pointing out a town-like post by him would be hard to do given the amount he has contributed but alternatively, is there anything really scum-like in his gameplay (or lack thereof)? I have a null read on him and would not support his lynch ATT. Especially given all the events that have transpired today.

The willingness to vote Jerbs to avoid a replacement is very scummy IMO.

My top four ATM are pappums rat (reasons already provided in ample detail); Idiotking for pushing a very bad case on me, neil [only if pappums flips town], and Cecily for her last post [aka her recent ridiculous vote on me and the associated rationale???].

[Rhinox]

Bub Bidderskins replaces Jerbs.

Thanks and welcome!

[Bub Bidderskins]

I'm going to

unvote

In case I'm voting for somebody. I start getting caught up ASAP.

[Jahudo]

I'm retracting my name calling argument because it seems to have stopped

Do you think it was townish of neil to stop it, or the way he stopped it? Do you think scum-neil would have handled it differently, or is because this went on for only a little bit you don't have enough evidence to really be confident keeping your vote on him? I'm trying to figure out what you currently think about him, because your unvote wasn't entirely clear.

For the record I disagree that any of that name calling or attitude was scummy to say. It looked like a personality not playstyle tell, I've seen plenty of players act abrasive as town. Its possible that in some cases there is a motivation to make a player look bad, but I think it would be done in a more subtle way so you don't realize the person name calling is being a jerk.

-----

How was Jerbs detrimental to town why would he say that he seemed still null to me oh hai Bub welcome to the game!