Open 293 - Donner Party Mafia, Take Two (Game Over)

[DeathRowKitty]

Not looking at this thread again until tomorrow morning. I am seriously sick and tired of stupidity and if your next post is anything like your previous ones, my likely response in my current mental state will be in all caps and likely get me force replaced as a bare minimum.

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.5

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Twistedspoon (4): Friend, pappums rat, DeathRowKitty, lane0168

lane0168 (3): MagnaofIllusion, DemonHybrid, Twistedspoon
andrew94 (2): drmyshottyizsik, tclawren
DemonHybrid (1): singersigner
DeathRowKitty (1): andrew94

Not voting (1): mockingjaye

Deadline is March 30th, 2011, at 7:24pm EST (site time). A countdown to the deadline is here.

[pappums rat]

shotty what is your opinion of twistedspoon?

[DemonHybrid]

Andrew and DRK: I don't mean to backseat mod, but stop talking about ongoing games. Putting "redacted" doesn't mean anything if the game is still going.

1. It doesn't help us because it gives no information to analyze.
2. I don't want you two getting in trouble over it.

A newer suspect is now Friend. Lane is still ahead, but I'm keeping an eye on him too. He kind of gives an extremely weak reason to hop on the TS wagon. I've been trying to analyze TS's play for the past day or so, and I get a null read from his quick analysis; the carelessness of his analysis can have both town and scum motivation, but regardless of TS's alignment, there's definitely some quicklynch (if spoon is town)/bussing (if spoon is scum) going on with his wagon.

I think TS is a competent player, and because of that, I don't think that he'd be dumb enough as mafia to do a 4 minute long analysis and announce it, though I'm not going to count it out. I need more information from him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from my long weekend –

The following group of lurkers has at least one scum in it

– mockingjaye, pappums, drshotty and singersinger.

Are they all scum? Of course not but both statistically and behaviourally there is one scum blending in with his fellow low contributors. Possibly two since we have two independent factions. Don’t forget this list after I’m dead.

--

Despite being a complete lurker mockingjaye did manage to make a good point about lane’s use of “you are all royally fucked” as opposed to “we are screwed”.

--

lol, so you're admitting it's OMGUS then?

You are trying to assert OMGUS is anything but Null?

--

Analogy time. If we were playing poker and I had a tell on you would I tell you what it was in the middle of the game? Of course not. Same idea here, if I express to you what I believe the difference in your town and scum games are, you could change your game and I have lost my edge.

How about a better analogy. You are playing poker and have a tell on someone. You have to convince the other players at the table that you have discovered said tell and that it means you have the better hand before cards are shown. Otherwise the hand is a push and no-one wins the pot.

Mafia is not Poker.

--

I was referring to the fact that only the goon submitting the kill finds out the role of the dead player. It seems strange to me that mafia have day talk because it means the second goon finds out immediately.

Why do you find that strange? We are in a 9-2-1 set-up where there are two discrete kills that the Goons do not control. Daytalk and coordination is one of the only strengths the Mafia team has.

What's your current opinion on tcl?

He’s one of my neutral reads at the moment. Which means he’s in a better spot IM O than most players.

Let's assume for the moment that Twistedspoon is scum. Can you explain to me the thought process behind his posts if andrew is town?

Why are you using theoretical situations that work only towards the reads you already have?

--

MS is so full of shit. If i vote him i will most certainly get "WOW NICE OMGUS"

1. Who is MS?
2. Why are you worried about whether someone says your vote is OMGUS or not?

I am frustrated because if MOI is town, he is certainly searching for tells rather than letting people slip up. I am town. So why is he so confident in my being scum? THAT is the reason for my frustration. If he's so damn good, wtf is he so far off?

1. So your preferred method of hunting scum is to passively sit around hoping someone makes a ‘mistake’?
2. I’m confident you are scum because you are playing in a scummy manner. I don’t give people a pass for being ‘new’. If you aren’t scum then it should be a good learning experience for you.

The reason being that if you are town, you have 2 factions trying to kill you, and if you are mafia, you have only one.

No, you don’t. Scum have the Town Vig and Serial Killer as potential threats. The Serial Killer has Scum and the Town Vig. This also ignores the effects of game-play and the relative numbers involved.

I did not say you are influential. You asserted that yourself in your first post

Really? You’ve just spent many posts effectively whining about how screwed Town is if I am scum because I’m leading them around by the nose. The whole basis of that argument is that I’m influential.

This is pure Cognitive Dissonance.

I felt the issue had been addressed by demon, and therefore responded with my own comic relief.

So you were adding nothing but insulting comedy with that statement then? Town has no reason to do that …

consistency twisted. please switch your vote from me to singer for her blatant buddying

Nothing Pro-Town about this post. Singer’s post saying she <3s DRK was not equivalent at all to your post where you <3ed DRK for calling you Town. Yes, I see you called it a joke about positivity. I don’t find that a very convincing argument.

What scum-hunting motive does this throw-away statement have.

--

I think lane is definitely town, and the wagon on him is scumdriven.

Who. Names and reasons NOW!!!

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am happy with my vote where it stands.

Lane’s play has been scummy IMO and the latest batch of answers doesn’t reduce my suspicion.

My other Top suspect is Friend.

Read his ISO. It’s filled to the rim with reasons why people aren’t scum but has ZERO scum-hunting. The closest he comes is some mild comments about DemonHybrid wagonning (which isn’t a scum-tell, especially early) and some unexplainable gut on DRK.

Not he proceeds to wagon TwistedSpoon himself with little reason at ISO 11. His post at ISO 8 where he says DH is scum applies directly to his wagon hop on Twisted.

DH's case is basically "uhh what Magna said" and it seems to me like he's just picking on easy targets.

Insert Friend in place of DH and DRK in place of Magna and it applies directly to his vote-hop at his ISO 11. For bonus points consider he has a gut scum read on DRK and yet is following his lead on TwistedSpoon.

So we've got Cognitive Dissonance working here ...

I’ll be looking indepth at Andrew’s game threads when I get a chance.

[Friend]

All you guys calling me out for wagoning (*cough* MAGNA *cough*) I was the first vote on twisted. DRK wagoned on ME, not the other way around. She was the one arguing with twisted, but calling my vote a hypocritical wagon hop is the farthest thing from the truth. Total misrep and it's scummy as hell. Also, there's more than one scum. I feel more confident about TwistedSpoon than DRK - like I said before, there's nothing concrete that I can really say about DRK. It's just a feeling.

[lane0168]

MS is so full of shit. If i vote him i will most certainly get "WOW NICE OMGUS"

1. Who is MS?
2. Why are you worried about whether someone says your vote is OMGUS or not?

I am frustrated because if MOI is town, he is certainly searching for tells rather than letting people slip up. I am town. So why is he so confident in my being scum? THAT is the reason for my frustration. If he's so damn good, wtf is he so far off?

1. So your preferred method of hunting scum is to passively sit around hoping someone makes a ‘mistake’?
2. I’m confident you are scum because you are playing in a scummy manner. I don’t give people a pass for being ‘new’. If you aren’t scum then it should be a good learning experience for you.

The reason being that if you are town, you have 2 factions trying to kill you, and if you are mafia, you have only one.

No, you don’t. Scum have the Town Vig and Serial Killer as potential threats. The Serial Killer has Scum and the Town Vig. This also ignores the effects of game-play and the relative numbers involved.

I did not say you are influential. You asserted that yourself in your first post

Really? You’ve just spent many posts effectively whining about how screwed Town is if I am scum because I’m leading them around by the nose. The whole basis of that argument is that I’m influential.

This is pure Cognitive Dissonance.

I felt the issue had been addressed by demon, and therefore responded with my own comic relief.

So you were adding nothing but insulting comedy with that statement then? Town has no reason to do that …

consistency twisted. please switch your vote from me to singer for her blatant buddying

Nothing Pro-Town about this post. Singer’s post saying she <3s DRK was not equivalent at all to your post where you <3ed DRK for calling you Town. Yes, I see you called it a joke about positivity. I don’t find that a very convincing argument.

What scum-hunting motive does this throw-away statement have.

MS is mafia scum. i'm not worried, i just think its funny how either way you play, its wrong. tcl was eluding to this early in the game.

I guess i did not realize i have just been passively sitting around. In my opinion i have been playing quite actively. And yes, i would rather sit passively around and let people make mistakes and lynch a scum, rather than lynch someone that is town because they werent playing town how i would play.

If i get lynched due to the points you and others have brought up, what will i learn from it? I guess you can tell me when its over. Don't you think if I am town it will be a good learning experience for you? or you don't really give a shit. its not a mistake to lynch town. either way i'm sure you'll think you played this perfectly.

I don't feel i've made any mistakes. I've answered all your questions honestly to the best of my knowledge... made some jokes that i think are funny. I'm sorry you do not think so, you clearly have a different view of fun.

I think you are the first person that doesnt think OMGUS is null every time and i can appreciate that. I've seen too many times where people say it cause someone votes them, even though that person states their reason for it clearly

i vote twisted because i understand the points brought against him. deal with it.

Quote tag fixed.

[lane0168]

sorry moi, first part of that is your quote

[tclawren]

Analogy time. If we were playing poker and I had a tell on you would I tell you what it was in the middle of the game? Of course not. Same idea here, if I express to you what I believe the difference in your town and scum games are, you could change your game and I have lost my edge.

How about a better analogy. You are playing poker and have a tell on someone. You have to convince the other players at the table that you have discovered said tell and that it means you have the better hand before cards are shown. Otherwise the hand is a push and no-one wins the pot.

Mafia is not Poker.

Point taken. Let me try to explain what I believe I see in Andrew's play, hopefully it's the same thing DRK saw. Feel free to ignore/correct this.

I believe that when Andrew plays as scum he is more interested in the game and posts more content. Paradoxically his play as scum is more pro-town than when he actually does get town. And his plays early in this game fit what I see as his scum game.

-------

The following group of lurkers has at least one scum in it – mockingjaye, pappums, drshotty and singersinger.

Are they all scum? Of course not but both statistically and behaviourally there is one scum blending in with his fellow low contributors. Possibly two since we have two independent factions. Don’t forget this list after I’m dead.

Of the people on this list I am the most concerned about Pappums. His posts have been very spread apart and with very little content, but they do show signs that he has been keeping up with reading the thread. In other words I'm accusing pappums of activelurking, which is totally scummy.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pappums

[drmyshottyizsik]

shit never mind replace me

[andrew94]

@tclawren: how about the game redacted which is gonna end soon, rofl. your theroy just failed

[DeathRowKitty]

When {redacted} ends, you're getting a hell of an angry post about how wrong you are.

Why do you find that strange? We are in a 9-2-1 set-up where there are two discrete kills that the Goons do not control. Daytalk and coordination is one of the only strengths the Mafia team has.

Seemed at the time to ruin part of the mechanics of the game (the killer being the only player to know dead players' roles). Didn't really think about it past that.

Why are you using theoretical situations that work only towards the reads you already have?

Not sure what you expected to get out of asking me this. I think andrew and TS are scum. I was trying to get Friend to agree. Should I be asking questions to people about what to make of TS's actions if he's town or something? Not only do I disagree with the assumption in that (that TS is town); even if he's town, that's a useless question.

[DemonHybrid]

For the love of god, you two.

[DeathRowKitty]

All I've said about the game is that he's wrong about it. He's the one that keeps trying to bring it up.

[Magua]

Romanus replaces drmyshottyizsik

[singersigner]

Catch-up Donnor:
DH 89: So it’s ok to not give reasons to begin with, but not waffle around?

Lane’s 92: Just bad posting. You’re publicly invoking WIFOM…I haven’t seen that happen in a while…it’s a good thing I’ve only ever seen this from town. >_>

His response to MoI makes me wonder:

MoI, have you, as town, ever publicly “asked” for the NK on D1 before? If so, can you link a game?

Tcl 98: Is good posting.

Twisted vs Tcl is stupid. They’re both newbs arguing about another newb who just so happens to look scummier than both of them because no one’s familiar with his playstyle yet. Looks like genuine frustration over being misunderstood, IMO.

DRK’s 102: I’ve seen Andrew scum and he still sucked. He should also either 1. Back up his claims, or 2. Not fucking dismiss his own theory if he wants it to have any merit.

Twisted’s 103: Clearly a misrep. Silly boy.

DH 116: What makes you think MoI was making a joke about being killed N1? Also, your vote is on Lane while expressing suspicion of Twisted for having no reason to be voting Lane…do you suggest bussing, or is that not actually suspicion?

WUT IS THIS SHIT. REEKS of overly-cautious scum.

Friend’s 133: Doesn’t give reasons for ANY of his scum reads…

Twisted’s 141: If you could come to a conclusion about Andrew’s meta in that time, why didn’t you just do it before?

MoI’s 179/180: Re: insulting comedy, I feel as though you tunneled Lane with that, as there were other people who have done the same thing. I feel like Lane’s been on the defensive for quite a while now, so his lack of scumhunting is null. Twisted’s scummier, IMO.

At this point

unvote

. I don’t see DH being scum with three other viable lynches. Probably the SK.

Lol @ buddying.

(note to self: if using sarcasm put in sarcasm tags so TS doesn't mistake it for seriousness.)

DRK vs Andrew is making me want to throw them both in a woodchipper.
* in they go *
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Quote tag fixed

[singersigner]

EBWOP: stupid word and quote tags...

Also,

vote: Twistedspoon

[Romanus]

I'm here. In the middle of the readthrough. Will post when done.

[Romanus]

Alright. Whew.
First, stop bringing up a game in progress as it is explicitly against the rules and is irrelevant to this game, as I find most meta is.

I think Lane's pronoun slip to be more than what others are making of it. I don't think we are screwed at all.

I like the Lane wagon.

Unvote

Vote: Lane

[lane0168]

Still wasn't a slip. I said it with the scenario that moi is scum and i would be lynched. I don't think you're all that screwed at all. because i don't think that moi is scum anymore. unvoted him.

I can see where you're coming from, but its just not the case.

[singersigner]

Still wasn't a slip. I said it with the scenario that moi is scum and i would be lynched.

I don't think you're all that screwed at all.

because i don't think that moi is scum anymore. unvoted him.

I can see where you're coming from, but its just not the case.

Are you serious? After the last time you were called out on it, were you not thinking, oh hey, "if I'm

actually

a part of this town, I should

probably

include myself in saying stupid shit like this"?

Scratch DH being the SK...

[Romanus]

Very funny. So who is the "you" you are referring to now?

[Twistedspoon]

anyone else think there's a scum on my wagon?

[Romanus]

Yes, as I am voting for Lane.