Open 293 - Donner Party Mafia, Take Two (Game Over)

[singersigner]

anyone else think there's a scum on my wagon?

Statistically speaking, yes, are/will be scum on your wagon.

Why are you looking for validation?

[Twistedspoon]

validation?

verification surely :/

anyways, I still want lane to answer post 196 and 197 when he returns

[singersigner]

Verification?
Are you expecting scum to come out and say "hey, yeah you're right, I AM bussing you."

I did actually mean validation, though.
You ask like you're trying to encourage people to look at those on your wagon instead of the fact that you're scum, deferring to others instead of making a sound case of your own.

[andrew94]

alright demon is confirmed scum too cos all he says is 'stop it you two' whilst doing nothing'

[Romanus]

I think it is actually called deflection.

Twisted, how about you tell us who you think the scum are on your wagon. That way if you do get lynched we have some info.

Andrew - please don't say stuff like confirmed scum when he is anything but. No one, to my knowledge, is confirmed anything.

[lane0168]

Still wasn't a slip. I said it with the scenario that moi is scum and

i would be lynched.

I don't think you're all that screwed at all. because i don't think that moi is scum anymore. unvoted him.

I can see where you're coming from, but its just not the case.

Are you serious? After the last time you were called out on it, were you not thinking, oh hey, "if I'm

actually

a part of this town, I should

probably

include myself in saying stupid shit like this"?

Scratch DH being the SK...

wtf? no i didnt think that. i remember leaving the scenario that moi is scum... but i seriously do not remember being out of ANY danger of being lynched. Could you tell me when that happened? As you recall "i said it with the scenario... i would be lynched" still pretty sure that's going to happen. I don't know why i would phrase it differently.

But seriously, tell me when i got out of danger of being lynched, and hence joined this "we" that has been so fondly spoken about.

[tclawren]

I'm still feeling town from lane, though it's a bit of a weaker feeling than before, thanks to another pronoun snafu (this one is more suspicious than the first, IMO). TS however is smelling more and more scummy to me, but I'm still wary of his wagon. Something doesn't feel quite right about it. Unfortunately it seems everyone has decided it will be one of these two for the gallows today. :/

anyone else think there's a scum on my wagon?

It is very probable that there is at least one scum on your wagon. Why ask this question in the first place? Everyone who isn't voting for you and is not named mockingjaye is voting for someone that is voting for you, i.e. think there is scum on your wagon. What could you hope to achieve from this question besides make people suspect people other than you?

Also, I will not comment on an ongiong game.

Quote tag fixed

[Twistedspoon]

Verification?
Are you expecting scum to come out and say "hey, yeah you're right, I AM bussing you."

don't be silly

verification that another player might think there was scum on the wagon.

Twisted, how about you tell us who you think the scum are on your wagon. That way if you do get lynched we have some info.

I have no clue; if i knew who scum were then this'd be over.

however i'd say there's at least 1 scum on my wagon.

lane

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Romanus!

--

Not sure what you expected to get out of asking me this.

I’m trying to see how honest you are about your opinion on the subject. Because quite frankly before flips saying “Read Player Z as scum, what does this say about Player Y” is pointless fluffing of your case on Andrew. It proves nothing other than that reading Twisted in a manner pre-disposed to find him scummy leads to makes Andrew more scummy. After an actual flip it is warranted. Before it’s pointless and distracting.

For example me saying “Read DRK as scum … do you see his statements towards Lane as being possible if Lane is Town?” is bad scum-hunting. Until I know you are scum it’s grandstanding and use of confirmation bias.

--

All you guys calling me out for wagoning (*cough* MAGNA *cough*) I was the first vote on twisted. DRK wagoned on ME, not the other way around. She was the one arguing with twisted, but calling my vote a hypocritical wagon hop is the farthest thing from the truth.

The point is not that you voted after DRK. The point is that your vote is exactly the equivalent to what you accused DH of being scummy for – you voted following DRK’s ‘case’ and reasoning on TwistedSpoon by more or less saying "What DRK said, Vote Twisted".

So if DH voting without providing any independent reasons and following someone else’s case is scummy then your vote for Twisted is scummy for exactly the same reasoning. QED.

No comments at all on the accusations that your ISO is devoid of scum-hunting? Noted.

--

If i get lynched due to the points you and others have brought up, what will i learn from it?

I guess you can tell me when its over. Don't you think if I am town it will be a good learning experience for you?

or you don't really give a shit. its not a mistake to lynch town. either way i'm sure you'll think you played this perfectly.

Italicized for emphasis – you should have an idea about things that are people perceive as scummy play and work to avoid them when you are Town.

Bolded for emphasis – I’ll learn about your play-style and tendancies you have as a player based on your alignment (which I do not know).

Of course lynching Town is never a good thing. Realistically it is going to happen during a game. Town outnumber the scum by a 3 to 1 margin. Both Town who are lynched and Town who participate in said lynches are not perfect.

I don't feel i've made any mistakes. I've answered all your questions honestly to the best of my knowledge... made some jokes that i think are funny. I'm sorry you do not think so, you clearly have a different view of fun.

What purpose do your jokes have in hunting down scum? I keep asking you this and am not getting an answer. If the answer is none don’t expect my thoughts to change. IMO GD and other places exist to make jokes solely to do so.

i vote twisted because i understand the points brought against him. deal with it.

I am dealing with it. If you don’t like the way that is happening I can’t help that.

As you recall "i said it with the scenario... i would be lynched" still pretty sure that's going to happen. I don't know why i would phrase it differently.

The problem everyone is having and that you appear to not be getting is summarized thusly –

Mafia is a Team game. Town wins regardless of whether they are dead or alive at the end of the game as long as Town fulfills its win condition. So even if you are lynched as Town day 1 the proper Town mindset is that ‘We are screwed’ not ‘You are screwed’.

--

I believe that when Andrew plays as scum he is more interested in the game and posts more content. Paradoxically his play as scum is more pro-town than when he actually does get town. And his plays early in this game fit what I see as his scum game.

So you find Andrew’s game here to be Pro-Town?

--

His response to MoI makes me wonder: MoI, have you, as town, ever publicly “asked” for the NK on D1 before? If so, can you link a game?

Not on Mafiascum. The old site I used to play on requires registration so I’m not going to bother to attempt to link to those games.

MoI’s 179/180: Re: insulting comedy, I feel as though you tunneled Lane with that, as there were other people who have done the same thing. I feel like Lane’s been on the defensive for quite a while now, so his lack of scumhunting is null. Twisted’s scummier, IMO.

Who else has made ‘jokes’ in lieu of scum-hunting in this game after RVS? Can I get post numbers please.

What specifically do you find scummier about Twisted? Is the case his magic re-read and his cautiousness?

--

anyone else think there's a scum on my wagon?

Singer nailed this but I don’t see this as anything but weak pandering – “look at me I’m poor Town who is getting run up by scum”.

--

alright demon is confirmed scum too cos all he says is 'stop it you two' whilst doing nothing'

He might be scum but certainly not for that.

He’s right – you both (and mainly you) need to

SHUT UP ABOUT ON-GOING GAMES

. It’s a fucking site wide rule.

[tclawren]

I believe that when Andrew plays as scum he is more interested in the game and posts more content. Paradoxically his play as scum is more pro-town than when he actually does get town. And his plays early in this game fit what I see as his scum game.

So you find Andrew’s game here to be Pro-Town?

Before DRK mentioned a possible tell on him, I thought his play was pro-town. As for his play right now... I think it would be silly to say it is pro-town.

@MoI: Of your list of lurkers, who do you suspect the most?

@Twistedspoon: I'm confused about why lane is crossed out in your post. Are you saying that he is the scum on your wagon? Or are you saying there is another one?

[Twistedspoon]

@Twistedspoon: I'm confused about why lane is crossed out in your post. Are you saying that he is the scum on your wagon? Or are you saying there is another one?

it's a joke

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.6

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Twistedspoon (5): Friend, pappums rat, DeathRowKitty, lane0168, singersigner

lane0168 (4): MagnaofIllusion, DemonHybrid, Twistedspoon, Romanus
DeathRowKitty (1): andrew94
pappums rat (1): tclawren

Not voting (1): mockingjaye

Deadline is March 30th, 2011, at 7:24pm EST (site time). A countdown to the deadline is here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: Of your list of lurkers, who do you suspect the most?

I have to say I don’t suspect any one of them at this stage directly. They haven’t posted enough to get a feel. That’s the point of lurking, IMO. I listed all four simply to keep it top of mind for me.

Now that Shotty has been replaced his slot appears to be providing more content to be judged by.

Before DRK mentioned a possible tell on him, I thought his play was pro-town. As for his play right now... I think it would be silly to say it is pro-town.

DRK posted his tell on Andrew at 108.

Andrew has 6 posts before that (ISO 0-5). Please tell me which ones looked Pro-Town and why.

--

it's a joke

I’ll ask you what I asked Lane – what scum hunting purpose do you have throwing that in? Looking at your 207 I see the following

1. Response to Singer that does nothing but say “hey, I think scum are on my wagon”. No scum hunting there.
2. A statement where you say you have no idea who said scum are. No scum-hunting there.
3. Your joke.

[tclawren]

DRK posted his tell on Andrew at 108.

Andrew has 6 posts before that (ISO 0-5). Please tell me which ones looked Pro-Town and why.

Iso #1: He is one of the first to apply pressure on Lane. Even if his reasoning is suspect, he pressure is one reason why some of you are voting him currently.

I also think that his Iso #4 and #5 are also protown. #5 more so since it actually gives solidified reasoning for his actions.

[lane0168]

I don't think i want that to change my game. I like the way i play my game. Its honest and open. I don't feel like i would want to play a game where i have to censor myself.

My jokes serve no purpose in scum hunting. They only make the game more enjoyable to me. Because laughter is the best medicine. Even if its laughing at my own jokes. WHICH I DO!!

The problem everyone is having and that you appear to not be getting is summarized thusly –

Mafia is a Team game. Town wins regardless of whether they are dead or alive at the end of the game as long as Town fulfills its win condition. So even if you are lynched as Town day 1 the proper Town mindset is that ‘We are screwed’ not ‘You are screwed’.

Oh...

[lane0168]

seriously, i can not help it. that thing about laughing at my own jokes. please do not respond, its one of those things that serve no purpose in scum hunting. I am sorry

[MagnaofIllusion]

seriously, i can not help it. that thing about laughing at my own jokes. please do not respond, its one of those things that serve no purpose in scum hunting. I am sorry

There is nothing wrong with joking if it is in addition to actual scum-hunting.

[DemonHybrid]

alright demon is confirmed scum too cos all he says is 'stop it you two' whilst doing nothing'

What about my comment and suspicion on Friend?

The ongoing game shit needs to stop, but that's just an aside.

Still wasn't a slip. I said it with the scenario that moi is scum and i would be lynched.

I don't think you're all that screwed at all.

because i don't think that moi is scum anymore. unvoted him.

I can see where you're coming from, but its just not the case.

Are you serious? After the last time you were called out on it, were you not thinking, oh hey, "if I'm

actually

a part of this town, I should

probably

include myself in saying stupid shit like this"?

Scratch DH being the SK...

@singer, quick question: Do you believe that SKs are at a psychological disadvantage in mafia? I just want to know where you're coming from with this point.

seriously, i can not help it. that thing about laughing at my own jokes. please do not respond, its one of those things that serve no purpose in scum hunting. I am sorry

There is nothing wrong with joking if it is in addition to actual scum-hunting.

I would disagree with this. There's a far higher chance that everyone would get distracted from joking along with scumhunting than if there is no joking or at least very minimal joking.

[Friend]

Twisted, make a read. Who is scum on your wagon?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Twisted, make a read. Who is scum on your wagon?

Hello, Captain Hypocricy!!!

I've asked you on multiple occasions to support your assertions that the Lane wagon is scum-driven with reads.

Each time you ignore.

Yet now you are calling someone else on the carpet for not making reads?

Everyone jump on board, this wagon is go!!!!

UNVOTE: Lane
VOTE: Friend

[singersigner]

Still wasn't a slip. I said it with the scenario that moi is scum and i would be lynched.

I don't think you're all that screwed at all.

because i don't think that moi is scum anymore. unvoted him.

I can see where you're coming from, but its just not the case.

Are you serious? After the last time you were called out on it, were you not thinking, oh hey, "if I'm

actually

a part of this town, I should

probably

include myself in saying stupid shit like this"?

Scratch DH being the SK...

@singer, quick question: Do you believe that SKs are at a psychological disadvantage in mafia? I just want to know where you're coming from with this point.

I...what? I don't know what you mean by "psychological disadvantage." The point I was making was that I don't feel as though Lane's scum, but with his pronoun slips, he didn't seem to be playing on the same side as the rest of us.

[Friend]

Twisted, make a read. Who is scum on your wagon?

Hello, Captain Hypocricy!!!

I've asked you on multiple occasions to support your assertions that the Lane wagon is scum-driven with reads.

Each time you ignore.

Yet now you are calling someone else on the carpet for not making reads?

Everyone jump on board, this wagon is go!!!!

UNVOTE: Lane
VOTE: Friend

Magna I'm thinking you have to be scum this game, because you're normally not this stupid. If you've actually read me you'd understand that I've said multiple times that I think DH and twisted are prob-scum. Both are on the Lane wagon. I didn't think I had to spell it out for you. Add this to the whole point earlier about me wagoning when I didn't actually wagon at all and your misreps are starting to look scummy as hell.

[andrew94]

magua conviently jumping off the lane wagon and not onto twistedspooin's either.

cough*

[DemonHybrid]

Still wasn't a slip. I said it with the scenario that moi is scum and i would be lynched.

I don't think you're all that screwed at all.

because i don't think that moi is scum anymore. unvoted him.

I can see where you're coming from, but its just not the case.

Are you serious? After the last time you were called out on it, were you not thinking, oh hey, "if I'm

actually

a part of this town, I should

probably

include myself in saying stupid shit like this"?

Scratch DH being the SK...

@singer, quick question: Do you believe that SKs are at a psychological disadvantage in mafia? I just want to know where you're coming from with this point.

I...what? I don't know what you mean by "psychological disadvantage." The point I was making was that I don't feel as though Lane's scum, but with his pronoun slips, he didn't seem to be playing on the same side as the rest of us.

What I got from your post is that you're starting to suspect lane as the SK instead of suspecting me to be the SK. You also seem to equate being an SK to having a tough time trying to blend into town, even though they have just as much knowledge of townies do. IMO, they're basically a survivor with a vig kill and their own win condition. My question to you is: Do you believe that SKs have some sort of pressure-psychological disadvantage with genuineness like mafia usually do, or would being an SK feel no different than being a townie in regards to genuineness with scumhunting?

I just wanted to understand your point a bit further, hence the question.

[singersigner]

I feel as though the SK is equally apt to not include themselves in with the town as mafia. I also feel as though it's a lot easier to flush out those hiding something if you accuse someone of something they might be hiding.