Open 283 - Masons and Monks

[MrTrow]

@ TS: Snake didn`t choose not to hammer.

@ Flinter: As for your 'snake hammered' case: consider it added to what i want Snake to answer.
As for your: 'nobody said anything about it': that simply isn`t true: Andrew asked the very same question
@Snake, this combination indeed means i consider your answer insufficient

[flinter]

Hey, you are right. Andrew goes on the townlist!

and snake has a lot to explain

[ThAdmiral]

Just had a look back over the votecounts and this was one thing that I noticed:

Votecount 1.4

12. God Is Dead - 4 andrew94, Escho, parknourie, aaah400

As well all know GID was town. We also know that aaah and parknourie were town. I find it hard to believe that a wagon would have gotten up to four on a town player without scum being involved, which means there is an incredibly high chance that one or both of andrew and escho are scum.
I will iso both and decide who is scummier.

[ThAdmiral]

EDIT: just had a look back at that particular wagon and there are a couple of things I noticed:

1. Andrew had his vote on god is dead as an rvs vote, but reaffirmed his vote at the number 3 slot in the wagon. I am going to think of that as his "real" vote.
2. Twistedspoon also voted for GiD, but unvoted again before the votecount.

The actual wagon (with added alignment colors) looked like this:

God Is Dead

- 5 Escho,

parknourie

, andrew94,

aaah400

, Twistedspoon

This means that I will also iso Twistedspoon as well.

[andrew94]

low posting for a couple of days

[SnakePlissken]

Let me explain about my hammer. At the point I believed I was hammering was merely to move the game on as we had a banned player in the slot, therefore the game was going to remain static and I merely moved the vote to allow us to move on. It was an incorrect count so I went back to my original vote. As far ad the couple of votes comment goes, it's not really about the amount of people however I was hoping for maybe a town consensus, but the point you have moved away from Trow is that you dived in early to get the hammer when I had already place holdered the spot. Which people seem to be forgetting. To me this was a scum move to get the lynch as has been questioned would I have hammered the spot? Well you didn't wait did you you just made sure it happened.

Then you work up some scum plot to turn the lynch and indeed the spotlight from you to me and even put a vote on me. Your looking more scummy by the second Mr.Trow.

[flinter]

Let me explain about my hammer. At the point I believed I was hammering was merely

to move the game on as we had a banned player in the slot

, therefore the game was going to remain static and I merely moved the vote to allow us to move on. It was an incorrect count so I went back to my original vote. As far ad the couple of votes comment goes, it's not really about the amount of people however I was hoping for maybe a town consensus, but the point you have moved away from Trow is that you dived in early to get the hammer when I had already place holdered the spot. Which people seem to be forgetting. To me this was a scum move to get the lynch as has been questioned would I have hammered the spot? Well you didn't wait did you you just made sure it happened.

Then you work up some scum plot

to turn the lynch and indeed the spotlight from you to me and even put a vote on me. Your looking more scummy by the second Mr.Trow.

4 lines to explain that he hammered because Escho became inactive. Knowing that the mod would look for a replacement. That's an excuse for a vote he knows was bad, and it certainly is a lie. He wouldn't need such a piece of text for the truth.

The last sentence is esspecially bad. According to him, Throw plotted against him by letting the mod make a wrong votecount, using this to accuse him of making a bad "hammer". It's a very convoluted way to move the suspicion back to the attacker.

I'm sorry snake, but we really need to lynch you. Andrew, I know you are town. This wagon is on scum, and I think you should join

[SnakePlissken]

And Flinter you are wrong, I am not scum. In fact I think the last part of your sentence shoul read

This wagon is scum on, and I think you should join.

[HackerHuck]

EDIT: just had a look back at that particular wagon and there are a couple of things I noticed:

1. Andrew had his vote on god is dead as an rvs vote, but reaffirmed his vote at the number 3 slot in the wagon. I am going to think of that as his "real" vote.
2. Twistedspoon also voted for GiD, but unvoted again before the votecount.

The actual wagon (with added alignment colors) looked like this:

God Is Dead

- 5 Escho,

parknourie

, andrew94,

aaah400

, Twistedspoon

This means that I will also iso Twistedspoon as well.

Maybe I'm impatient, but I'm not sure why you didn't follow up on this. I know from my reads, I've got twisted as a pretty solid town read and I'm leaning town on Andrew. This is just further evidence of Escho's scumminess, so I'm happy with my vote on flinter.

Flinter - what do you have to say about this? You're convinced that Andrew is town, so do you really think that no scum were on that wagon?

[Twistedspoon]

which means there is an incredibly high chance that one or both of andrew and escho are scum.

I suppose, unless they avoided voting in day d1 lynch should someone like you bring up day1's lynch results again and incriminate them :/

[flinter]

Flinter - what do you have to say about this? You're convinced that Andrew is town, so do you really think that no scum were on that wagon?

If you had read my catch up post, you would have known this. I suspect this was a rhetorical question. Am I right in this?

[ThAdmiral]

Maybe I'm impatient, but I'm not sure why you didn't follow up on this. I know from my reads, I've got twisted as a pretty solid town read and I'm leaning town on Andrew. This is just further evidence of Escho's scumminess, so I'm happy with my vote on flinter.

I'm gonna.

Just...isoing. *groan*

I'm doing it now, ok.

[ThAdmiral]

(seriously though I had uni assigments and shit)
(I am doing it now though)

[ThAdmiral]

The numbers are the iso post numbers.

Escho
8 - votes parknourie for apparent hypocrisy which is a bit of a stretch.
15 - votes gid after he claims werewolf, reason: "Ok I'll believe you GiD".
16 - brings up the fairly decent point that claiming scum does not confirm one as town.
17 - Unvotes due to believing the monk claim.
18 - Attacks twistedspoon for contradicting himself about why he voted GiD. Essentially twistedspoon said it was random, but it didn't seem random.
Since then has consistently been after twistedspoon.

Verdict: I seem to remember him being scummier, although I don't like the vote on GiD. Seems an all too easy option and something like that would be tempting for scum. Can't decide whether the tunneling on twistedspoon is a good thing or a bad thing. Flinter, however, has looked good since coming in to the game.
Ever-so-slightly leaning scum.

Andrew
5 - Says: "vatesi is fence sitting like a pro and park just claimed scum" yet votes neither of them.
7 - votes GiD because: "if hes werewolf LOL, if hes not STILL LOL"
12 - discusses the nightkills and possible motivations of the scum.
From 13 onwards - goes pretty hard after strungover. Probably isn't mafia in any case.

Verdict: Like I said he probably isn't mafia. His vote on GiD wasn't great. Hasn't really thrown votes around that much which I seem to remember andrew doing normally. He's always a tricky one to read for me.
Not sure.

Twistedspoon
4 - Says he is "bored of this dead RVS phase". Note for later.
7 - votes GiD. Here is the transcript of the vote post: "I think you claimed wolf because you're wolf. Why else would you claim wolf? Townie would have no reason to lie :/"
10 - Said that he didn't actually believe GiD was a wolf and was voting for "RVS, I wanted to up the tempo".
13 - Claims vt.
14/18/21/29 - Is cavalier about the fact that he claimed vt.
Since then has pretty consistently gone after Escho. "Escho seems too smug to be town. That's my gut feeling. Camping too."

Verdict: Not all that helpful, and definitely some contradictory points. I can't help but shake the feeling that the claim is most likely true given how it came about. Also calling escho smug is the pot calling the kettle black given how haughty he has been about his vt claim.
Annoyingly prob-town.

[ThAdmiral]

There's not much to choose between them. I'm not all that confident on my reads either, but I truly believe there was scum on that wagon - I mean there just had to be.

My order of preference is:
Escho
Andrew
Twistedspoon

Andrew might have been higher, but for the fact that it would be a sub-optimal lynch given that he is very unlikely to be mafia.

vote: flinter

[ThAdmiral]

Unofficial vote count

1. ThAdmiral - 0
2. Twistedspoon - 0
3.. flinter - 3 Twistedspoon, HackerHuck, ThAdmiral
4. SnakePlissken- 2 MrTrow, flinter
5. MrTrow - 1 SnakePlissken,
6. HackerHuck - 1 andrew94
7. andrew94 - 0

Not Voting:

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is Sunday, April 3, at 1:30 am EST.

flinter is -1

[HackerHuck]

Flinter - what do you have to say about this? You're convinced that Andrew is town, so do you really think that no scum were on that wagon?

If you had read my catch up post, you would have known this. I suspect this was a rhetorical question. Am I right in this?

Which post are you talking about - #406?

Anyway, it's not rhetorical. I wanted to make sure that you were aware of the makeup of that wagon. You didn't really address that aspect of my question. Do you really believe that there were no scum on that wagon? Your decision to call Andrew town was based on one seemingly flimsy piece of information.

pedit:
I'd recommend you claim now, since Snake was willing to hammer before.

[smargaret]

Votecount 3.4

1. ThAdmiral - 0
2. Twistedspoon - 0
3. flinter - 3 Twistedspoon, HackerHuck, ThAdmiral
4. SnakePlissken- 2 MrTrow, flinter
5. MrTrow - 1 SnakePlissken,
6. HackerHuck - 1 andrew94
7. andrew94 - 0

Not Voting:

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is Sunday, April 3, at 1:30 am EST.

[andrew94]

@ TS: Snake didn`t choose not to hammer.

@ Flinter: As for your 'snake hammered' case: consider it added to what i want Snake to answer.

As for your: 'nobody said anything about it': that simply isn`t true: Andrew asked the very same question

@Snake, this combination indeed means i consider your answer insufficient

i dont get this part.

also, i still think snake is scum,

[MrTrow]

@Andrew: Flinter missed your question, i simply pointed it out.

@Snake: time to get the question as clear as possible.
- You consider me your top scum-read.
- I was a mayor part (1/3) of the wagon on Escho(flinter)
- We`re with 4 town up against 3 scum(al be it divided in 2 teams)
- Escho`s slot was in no way 'doomed to be lynched' like aaah`s was
- The ban was being handled (confirmation in progress,prod has been sent, just in case it isn`t true)
- You claim your hammer was 'merely to move the game on'

Could you please justify:
Jumping on a wagon with your top scumread, to (quick)hammer a player that is explicitly-mod-unconfirmed banned, not obviously the only lynch-candidate for the day?
- Just to speed things up a bit?

[flinter]

Then my days are over. Snake will hammer as soon as he is in any danger of being lynched (because he supposedly knows he's a townie).

It's odd though, how several players totally disregard Snakes "hammer", but him subsequentely not voting me. It's pretty blatant. And of course I'm mostly looking at Thad and HH. I'd say one of them is scum, and I would guess it to be Thad, who conveniantly brought up a freak bandwagon which started out as all town. This was partly luck, partly because the opposing bandwagon lurked at the moment God made his move. But it's a conveniant argument to say that it is very uncommon that a bandwagon that doesn't make it contained 4 townies right from the start. I'm not too convinced about HH as scum, but this depends on the above. If Thad happens to be town, HH used him well. Which leaves one scummo. Don't know who that is yet.

The townie on me, is sadly wrong about me. Experience teaches that that townie will probably stay on as the day already progressed too far.


Last thing though. Snake, if we are right about you, and you happen to be the only one on your team... (yes I know, little chance but still), then you are virtually dead. The opposing team can win by killing you and not being killed by you.

[andrew94]

so flint claiming townie?

[ThAdmiral]

@ flinter: why are you so sure andrew is town?

[SnakePlissken]

Sorry I had very limited net connectivity yesterday. I think I'm pretty clear about whose who now. I am town and I really don't like Flinters poor little me defence. The but we will get you suggesting I'm scum and I won't get you overnight. Well in actuality I won't because I'm a town Mason. I'm not about to reveal my partner either. So despite Mr.Trow looking like scum, we are not going to get to a lynch of him today. If Andrew moves his vote to me as he thinks I'm scum then. Which if he really believes I am scum then why isn't he voting for me. That leaves me with casting vote. I'm not about to self haMmer am i? The only other option would be if a scum or wolf jumps Off the Flinter wagon for a quick lynch as there is likely some Bussing going on here. Well my options are very limited. So for the good (As far as I see it) of the town...

Unvote, vote Flinter[/]

[andrew94]

nice fake