You used the 4th vote count as "proof" you started the wagon on somebody when in reality someone else did.
You said you started 3 wagons and people sheeped you but you never started any of them
when asked to explain you basically became a dick and refused to talk about it anymore.
But I already hashed this out in the dead QT. To act dumb now pretending you don't know why you were lynched is just more horse shit.
I admitted my mistakes and you still refuse to.
You caused your own lynch, you lied.
Sorry bro.
@ Zito - if you would have made a conving argument for Bill instead of Hiraki, I would have changed my vote. I wanted to actually, especially after he claimed VT. But nobody posted anything worth while why he was better lynch than hiraki
I feel you tried to preserve yourself to get to lylo by weakly pushing lynches to seem non threatning to maf and that made you look like a bad NK
my opinion may differ from others but towards the end reading back
Subs definitly got better, his newbish style was just that.
This is what I get for learning how to play mafia from a bunch of football dorks
I did enjoy the game and if i learned anything it's
1. Never mention self voting if you are town
2. Don't respond to every fucking post
3. Stay calm
4. Think before you type.
RobCapone wrote:
1. Never mention self voting if you are town
2. Don't respond to every fucking post
3. Stay calm
4. Think before you type.
5. Don't flip when someone casts doubt on your claim.
Seriously, I considered making a push on you Day Whatever-it-was-I-was-alive because of the reactions you were having. I felt that there was potential support there, but the Hiraki wagon was much easier and less messy. I just followed up like ass the next day.
Replacing into scum is a double-edged sword for me.
Bussing on non-D1 days is tough because it doesn't get as much credit as it does on D1. But not bussing anyone is probably playing my weaker scumgame.
Ski mask? Check! Sawed off? Check! Guilty conscience, fear of death? Check! Check! Check!
GreyICE wrote:I don't have a fucking clue why I was lynched.
You ranted in the dead topic like a complete idiot. It was useless. It was a waste of time.
Say something worth saying, and you might have a fucking point.
YOU LIED
you claimed you started a wagon on someone
you posted a vote cout that proved your statement
problem was soneone else actually started the wagon
you voted 2nd
there were 3 vote counts that showed you being 2nd
that person unvoted
there was a count that showed you were first
you used that one as your "proof"
when I called you on it, you just called me stupid and refused to talk about it
Zito asked you about it and you said you wouldn't talk about it anymore.
Do you see why you got lynched? You were FAIL TOWNIE
you also claimed to start the EA wagon, but I
voted first, i had always planned to cause of his refusal to vote to start the game
you say you started it cause you offered "door prizes"
You are my fucking policy lynch if you're ever in a game with me again, a messy event I hope I'll never fucking see. VezokPiraka is better at this than you.
No you really didn't. explain it and if you did not convincing enough. I'll accept responsibility for your lynch, I still feel it was right given the context
Chill out man, you upset i get it but accept responsibility for your part.
this was my last game on site so, whew I dodged a bullet I guess.
MAFIA IS A BUNCH OF SISSIES FOR KEEPING THEIR QT HIDDEN BTW.
subgenius wrote:
bvoigt wrote:
BTW, what would have been the best way to play in the 1:1:2 endgame?
The consensus in the dead thread was to lynch one of the townies and force the scum into a night scenario where if one shot the other, he would win. Of course, this would require one of the scum to vote for one of the townies, and it's quite possible they would both refuse.
bvoigt and Zito could have forced one scum to lynch a townie, by threatening to lynch that scum if he didn't.
I really don't see the benefit to rehashing the case on GreyICE. In hindsight, his wagon went too fast, and it would have been nice if he had more time to defend himself, but he didn't do himself any favors by letting it get to that point without making a serious defense. Similar story with Hiraki, if he had shown any interest in not being lynched, he probably could have escaped.
I don't know if this refusal to address a case seriously is done in the hopes that the suspicions will blow over or in the belief that a strong defense will make the accused look desperate and scummy or what, but it definitely did not work to the town's advantage in this game.
EA wrote:bvoigt and Zito could have forced one scum to lynch a townie, by threatening to lynch that scum if he didn't.
A mafia doc AND a mafia watcher. A town with only a tracker and a mason pair against a mafia with two PRs AND an SK is a horrifying horrifying thought so I'm assuming vig too.
subgenius wrote:I really don't see the benefit to rehashing the case on GreyICE. In hindsight, his wagon went too fast, and it would have been nice if he had more time to defend himself, but he didn't do himself any favors by letting it get to that point without making a serious defense. Similar story with Hiraki, if he had shown any interest in not being lynched, he probably could have escaped.
I don't know if this refusal to address a case seriously is done in the hopes that the suspicions will blow over or in the belief that a strong defense will make the accused look desperate and scummy or what, but it definitely did not work to the town's advantage in this game.
EA wrote:bvoigt and Zito could have forced one scum to lynch a townie, by threatening to lynch that scum if he didn't.
Good point.
Um subs
The cases were fucking horrible.
Robs was "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa OMGUS I WILL JUMP ON ANYTHING YOU SAY"
Ah yeah, that mason QT reminded me of my rotten day 1. I've noticed a lot that my day 1 play is usually... really shitty and it takes me a while to get into a better groove. Day 2 is when I pick up steam.
I kind of knew I was playing like shit when night fell too, which is also slightly surprising why I died by the mafia.
I'm back... sorta. Not joining anything else until I know if I have enough time to keep playing. V/LA for most weekends. Apologies for my flake.
WHY ASHBLADE YOU FUCKERS? HE WAS THE LAST ORIGINAL TOWNIE THE LAST YOU KILLED A LEGEND - GreyIce
so, in summary: town failed, scum pretty much failed considering we were "overpowered", and barry played a blinder?
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
Town consisted of a bunch of blah. PZ noted it day 1, I like how he found every scum in the QT and lynched town in the thread :p
Mafia A consisted of a watcher (which was basically a confirmable town power role fakeclaim waiting to happen, since it could be tracked, was not a RB, and therefore could be town doctor, watcher, tracker #2, etc.), a doctor, and a goon.
Mafia B consisted of a lone goon with no special abilities.
GreyICE wrote:Nah. I could have been pissy scum. Hiraki was so obvtown it hurt me.
That lynch was painful. Town deserved loss after that.
Though setup meant town loss was inevitable. Run this 100 times, town might win 15
I think your idea of balance is really, really off.
It's not. 8:3:1 always means if you lynch scum day 1 and 2 you can still be 4:1:1 day 3. Masons are weaker than 9:3 because preventing mislynches is much less important due to two kills. Sk was weakened to give town a chance. So he was like 2x normal sk screw.
- Fact: The more PRs scum have the stronger the town tracker gets. The more PRs town has the stronger the scum watcher gets. So in this case we had a very useful town tracker and a very useless scum watcher.
- If you track a scummy person who claims doc to another scummy person at night, you should be able to put one and one together. And scum doc is a very acceptable role in normal games and therefore should very well be expected.
- Town tracker/watcher combination is very town op in a mini and I'd definitely question such a combo. If there was ever a massclaim in this game and people were to believe town tracker, watcher and masons I'd be very surprised.
Like I said, If I would run it again, I'd probably get rid of the Mafia Goon to give town a guaranteed second mislynch.
If town had gotten luckier they would've deserved to win, that's true. But that shouldn't divert from the fact that town played poorly through the first two days - almost half the game -, day and night.
Dekes, if you hadn't said this was your first round for modding I would never have believed it. I don't have a problem with the round design. I'd gladly play again as a member of any faction. We all made mistakes at different times in the round (certainly including me). If the town had managed to get past some of the noise and had lynched a scum by D2 this could well have been a very different game...but again, that's why you play the game in the first place.
I would also gladly play in any round modded by Dekes. You handled this very well - thanks!
GreyICE wrote:Nah. I could have been pissy scum. Hiraki was so obvtown it hurt me.
That lynch was painful. Town deserved loss after that.
Though setup meant town loss was inevitable. Run this 100 times, town might win 15
I think your idea of balance is really, really off.
The setup review board should not have allowed this game
This is the 2nd game I have been in that wasn't balanced
I know who you are and quite frankly not afraid of voicing my opinion
Run this setup again and I gurantee town won't win again.
...<snip>
Town's have a surprisingly good record in 3:1:8 set-ups;
...Which runs against the grain as far as 12 player games go. In 3:9's for instance, the town win rate was floundering at around 36% - doesn't it seem strange to you in a game with one more scum, the town is producing better results? (Note: I'm using 12 player games here because the sample size for 13 isn't large enough)
The reason is crosskills. In games with additional kills at night, whether they be from a vig or SK, they are producing a higher ratio of non-mafia kills to mafia kills, diluting their influence - mafia no longer get to decide 50% of the kills in the game. This weakened influence with their own NK, coupled with the risk of being picked off at night severely bites into mafia's chances of winning. It's an admittedly swingy mechanism to balance a game, as a small to large piece of the game is out of town's hands, but this is the baggage you need to accept when playing in a multiple scum game. Personally, I prefer not playing in games with two mafia factions or a mafia/SK, for this very reason. It makes the game increasingly chaotic and dependent on what happens with the kills, which isn't fun for me. However, many players and mods like the SK role, so we're going to have to convince them otherwise here.
To speak from a more anecdotal perspective, many 3:1:8's in the past have had similar balances of power; a Bulletproof SK, or maybe a mafia GF with investigation or NK immunity, against 2-3 town powers. I think it's easy to be deceived into thinking the mafia was overpowered this game, because they have two PR's. But lets look at what they actually do; the Doctor - he offers protection to one mafia member out of three. This is only useful against the SK, and unlike being a NK-immune GF, the scumteam can lose this power by the Doc being NK'ed (or lynched). The Watcher for mafia does very little this game - it can only catch one town PR, and the SK is immune to it. The reason for masons existing in the game, is so town have a small core of power that isn't able to be manipulated by scum's powers.
I think it's also important to remember, with 3:1:8's producing relatively even contests (despite being swingy), we're now adding in an extra townie, which should be another town benefit. I think it's easy to look at the set-up and scan the roles, and go,
"hang on, 3 town PR's against 4 scum? That isn't right!"
But crosskills are a particularly fickle mechanic that rip through the heart of a scum team as easily as it can obliterate town, and it's kind of sucky that this mechanic is what plays a big part in determining the outcome of Mafia/SK games - it's probably that feeling that you don't have much control over the outcome as a townie that makes it appear unbalanced. But that is the nature of the beast!
GreyICE wrote:Nah. I could have been pissy scum. Hiraki was so obvtown it hurt me.
That lynch was painful. Town deserved loss after that.
Though setup meant town loss was inevitable. Run this 100 times, town might win 15
I think your idea of balance is really, really off.
It's not. 8:3:1 always means if you lynch scum day 1 and 2 you can still be 4:1:1 day 3. Masons are weaker than 9:3 because preventing mislynches is much less important due to two kills. Sk was weakened to give town a chance. So he was like 2x normal sk screw.
This was bad hoops
I don't really understand this post. Are you talking about 3:1:8's or 3:1:9's? One of the reasons why we upgraded to 13 players over 12 was to better balance two core set-ups; 3:9 --> 3:10 and 3:1:8 --> 3:1:9. As I said just before, it's quite easy to have things not go your way at night, but additional town power wouldn't have solved that - infact, that would have probably painted more of a target on that player, minimising the chance of crosskills, which are a huge help for towns in 3:1:9's.
The SK is a particularly awkward role to balance in Minis, without making the game swingy. Because by nature, the very inclusion of two killing forces at night is going to produce a swingy game, where crosskills are crucial.
