Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

No, I don't mean evidence against you. There is a bunch of really scummy behavior from you, Bgg, but I'm still confident that it's all just town fumbling. I meant that there's a lot of evidence floating around this game for her to have NONE on ANYBODY.

[andrew94]

ermm i just noticed. if you look at ckd, earlier, he calls me dumbass (or something) for my comment of his '1000 games under belt'. later on, he quotes my comment AGAIN and makes a different response. infact, as i look at his post, it seems hes just opening 2 windows, one typing, and the other one quoting and responding to absolutely everything. this reads scum.

also, as i have said, yuri seems to be a guy..

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

ermm i just noticed. if you look at ckd, earlier, he calls me dumbass (or something) for my comment of his '1000 games under belt'. later on, he quotes my comment AGAIN and makes a different response. infact, as i look at his post, it seems hes just opening 2 windows, one typing, and the other one quoting and responding to absolutely everything. this reads scum.

also, as i have said, yuri seems to be a guy..

What's that bit about opening two windows? Explain this a little more please.

[andrew94]

as in 2 internet explorers, and doing this:


i.e.

1st internet:

post:
xxxxxxx
quote: a 'sds' this is so...

2nd internet
a says:sds
b says: sddsi
c says: sds

etc

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

If I understand that correctly, that's pretty well what I do. I usually have one browser open to pull quotes from, and one to actually type at, for cases and such.

[subgenius]

ermm i just noticed. if you look at ckd, earlier, he calls me dumbass (or something) for my comment of his '1000 games under belt'. later on, he quotes my comment AGAIN and makes a different response. infact, as i look at his post, it seems hes just opening 2 windows, one typing, and the other one quoting and responding to absolutely everything. this reads scum.

You'll have to explain why this is scummy. I don't get it. I won't deny that it results in enormous walls of unfocused remarks, but I don't see it as scummy.

[andrew94]

because then, he doesnt read what happened, just generally commenting. i notice that when you read the whole thing, you will notice that people have already addressed the points.

thus: wall of fluff

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

For example?

And I'm with Sub(though that wall of unfocused remarks can put together to form a legitimate case)

[subgenius]

thus: wall of fluff

I think I see what you're saying. With long catchup posts, a player is able to produce a lot of content about what has already happened without really affecting the current direction of the game very much, which could be construed as a tactic for avoiding attention. For the moment, I don't think that's his intention, but I see your point.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

We have been getting mad at players in this game for refusal to give opinions. I'd find it far easier to believe he is just attempting to avoid looking like he's refusing as well by only commenting on the most immediate situation.

[Regfan]

Alright, finally caught up with everything. This quoting business is an entire mess though, so I'll refrain from quotting everything.

@CKD, I found you scummy before and after the ISO. The ISO was done with intent to see if I felt the same way afterwards, and if so to be a partial-case against you. Thanks for finally providing the reasoning I was after, you only needed to state that Volkon voting a VI was the issue with it, not stating the reasoning behind why something is a bad vote leads to benefit for the town.

@CKD, I never said you attempted to buddy Yura, you're taking things outside of their context, I said mafia would defend a player for two reasons and then stated what they are. You're attempting to poke holes into an irrelevant statement.

@CKD, I don't believe I ever said you were on the site at the time of the actual lynch. You did however post just before twilight had occured meaning you were there so denying or discussing that is futile. It's scummy because you witheld your opinion on his allignment at the end, though I will re-read into this more later when I have time.

@CKD, In response to my thoughts about Vig in the setup, have I thought about who the vig is? Yes. Will I state who I think the vig is? No. You attempt to state that I'm tunneling 'soley' on you, when the truth is I've been in multiple discussions with/about Yura/Bgg, if I were tunnelling I would be merely pushing your lynch rather then considering other suspects.

@CKD, Yes I noticed from checking other games that you have a pattern of stating a promise to catch up in the next 24 hour post, then a catching up wall post, then afk'ing for 1-2 days and repeat thus inactivity is a null-tell in regards to you. I don't have any other accounts here, though out of curiosity who do I remind you of?

Maxous: It's just that Yura's latest posts about CKD was so blatently making thoughts and opinions up as she goes along, I'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt anymore. I don't see why a town would just make stuff up like that. She completely forgot her suspicion and vote on Bgg.

Isn't it highly evident from Yuras posts that she's obv newbscum/newbtown and either one would fit the defintion of forgetting their FoS's and sheeping other lynches. I don't mean to say that just because Yura is a newb that they shouldn't be lynched, but surely that's very poor reasoning to vote Yura over your two stronger FoS's.

Maxous: iI don't feel I was too indecisive in this game (just plain wrong lol) but here's a game of me as town if you want.
I only played two games as town on this site and the other one was really short - over by page 8 or somthing I think :O

Then what led you to say that you're indecisive as town?

Suprise: We have been getting mad at players in this game for refusal to give opinions. I'd find it far easier to believe he is just attempting to avoid looking like he's refusing as well by only commenting on the most immediate situation.

If he's attempting to please us via posting an opinion on something do you read that as a town/scum/null-tell?

@S_C, can you explain your reasoning behind thinking Bgg is just misguided/illogical town please?
@Voltron, with the exception of Yura and BGG do you have any other scum-reads in the game, do you have any townreads in the game?
@Yura, do you think Voltron/Subgenius are town or mafia?
@Andrew, if you had to say two people in the game are town for sure right now, who would they be and why?

Even though I still think CKD is mafia, for now I'm going to

Unvote

until I get some more responses.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

Firstly, it's a null-tell. I don't think it really can be suspicious or un-supicious

Secondly, I'm going to do something completely dumb and tell you that that second question is tantamount to fishing for a roleclaim.

[andrew94]

ckd commenting on everything that has happened, even those he commented before ALREADY , and even those others have commented on, just shows he is what sub said: avoiding attention

not answering town reads

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

No, andrew, that's wrong. Giving a whole lot of opinions isn't avoiding attention. The only person whose attention he is avoiding by posting a wall of text is your's. He does plenty of answering, and in two posts gives me more information then you've given me all game.

tl;dr: Even if the opinions aren't regarding something currently going on, knowing what his opinions are is valuable information.

[andrew94]

pfft, you missed my point.

he said X earlier

he said X again (in a sort of different way) in his'catchup post'

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

It just is a disproportionally small thing for you to lock onto. I don't think repeating yourself once or twice after a 2 day haitus is a scumtell, and I find it weird that you're locking onto it.

[andrew94]

im not listening to a thing you are saying, and it seems to me you are discreting making me stop 'looking into this' by a hidden threat of 'weird' = 'if you talk more about it = i vote'

rofl

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

im not listening to a thing you are saying, and it seems to me you are discreting making me stop 'looking into this' by a hidden threat of 'weird' = 'if you talk more about it = i vote'

rofl

Can someone ELSE explain to him what's wrong with this whole mess of a post, then?

[Regfan]

Secondly, I'm going to do something completely dumb and tell you that that second question is tantamount to fishing for a roleclaim.

Which question is the second one, and can you elaborate on what you mean please?

Andrew, I understand what you mean but to catch up from page 14 to 21 in one day means your response would involve a lot of repeating of your opinions or thoughts, thus I don't see it as a scum-tell.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

The second question was why I don't think Bgg is scum. And no, I really can't. Or shouldn't, anyway.

And Andrew, I only wish I had a second vote so I could threaten you, but since I'm already voting for you...there's no threat. Just me seeing you cough up another completely retarded "you're deflecting argument." and telling you that it's not really 'town' to fixate on a tiny, unimportant piece of 'evidence'.
Seriously, I cannot be the only one who finds his broken-record method of crying 'deflection' to be at least a little suspicious.

[Regfan]

Andew, can you link me to 2-3 games where you've been mafia please.

[andrew94]

im not listening to a thing you are saying, and it seems to me you are discreting making me stop 'looking into this' by a hidden threat of 'weird' = 'if you talk more about it = i vote'

rofl

Can someone ELSE explain to him what's wrong with this whole mess of a post, then?

erm no because i think my case is good, and your threatening me with 'weird'.
it may be that you think i am scum, thus u are refuxing everything i am saying, but you are scum so..

[andrew94]

Andew, can you link me to 2-3 games where you've been mafia please.

to answer your previous question: repeating of his own points is just 'over the top'. if you get my meaning

to find my scum games, press my name, press topics, find scum games...

[vollkan]

. If Yura is town, she would certainly realize that town players can be useless as well, but that doesn't mean that she can't find uselessness generally suspicious or think that bgg's particular type of uselessness is extra suspicious or think that he should be encouraged to explain himself and shape up. You, yourself said that she her reasons for voting bgg were valid. If she's right, she's right. She's still scummy for being useless, but not extra scummy for pointing out uselessness in another player.

Again, I don't disagree with you - I just think we are talking at cross-purposes.

It's true that I think one part of her reasons for voting bgg is valid.

But that's completely different from saying that I think it is valid for her to think that it is scummy.

This is the level where this issue with Yura lies

. Yura clearly KNOWS that she is useless, so if she is town she KNOWS that town can be useless.

Now, of course, that doesn't mean she has to completely write off uselessness as a scumtell.

BUT

it does mean, as I said way back in my first post explaining my position here, that she has firsthand insight into the reality of useless town. My 47 overstates this next part, mostly because I assumed that you'd understand what I was saying - but, basically, the point is that she can't genuinely be guilty of uselessness herself but also consider it a scumtell in others without some distinguishing element. There needs to be some reason why it's scummy for bgg, but not for her.

Yura's post doesn't even show an attempt to reconcile the two. She gets some leeway in that regard because she's a newb, but, at the same time, she's also playing to standard form of newbscum, so I'm hardly going to write it off to inexperience.

WHOA...how the fuck did I jump so high on this list? Based on what?

See my earlier posts on his list (or, specifically, my place on it); it looks fake.

the bgg vote wasnt much of a strong scum sus like which i kinda have on ckd it was more of to see how he would react and base on it.... and for now my sus are not that big yet for i have no big evidence yet...:/

Yes. There were no strong reasons to vote bgg, and it wasn't just a case of you voting to join a bandwagon. Just like this isn't you retreating from yet another crappy vote after you come under attack

Also, what on earth si the strong evidence you have on CKD?

@Voltron, with the exception of Yura and BGG do you have any other scum-reads in the game, do you have any townreads in the game?

See my most recent score post. I have other people who are above 50, but by far Yura and bgg are the only two people I'd be comfortable lynching.

[Regfan]

Just finished briefly reading Andrews scum games, his playstyle in them is almost identical to that of this game. For anyone else interested in reading them, they are:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 74&start=0
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15612
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 86&start=0

Vote: Andrew94