Mini 1138 - Candy Zoo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Kalofer]

Amrun: town, I don't think scum would start such an original wagon as amrun did after TS claimed town, knowing that (if amrun was scum) TS would flip town.

amrun who can now be said to be a proven townie

@ Kalofer: Is this it?

Your phrasing, 'proven townie', surely suggests something more along the lines of a bona-fide confirmed townie. You're willing to call somebody a

proven townie

based on conjecture?

Anyway, what exactly makes it an 'original wagon', when it went to L-1 with intent to hammer?

Furthermore, you're insinuating that because TS claimed town, scum are less likely to push the wagon. This I find quite frankly ridiculous. Nobody is going to claim scum. So basically, you're generalising to "scum don't push wagons post-claim". Really?

Awww how cute. Obviously one can't be 100% sure when playing a guessing game but as far as 100% goes in guessing games I'm sure that Amrun is town because IMO scum would definitely not re start a wagon on someone who they know is town only to get pressure on them the next day so they die as well. And the wagon got to L-1 before TS claimed, it didn't get to L-1 after he claimed. And it really strikes me as odd how you self proclaimed townies are pushing for a lynch without considering its consequences, so I will ask again: WHAT IF TS IS TOWN? And yes I am saying scum don't push wagons post-claim, why would they, knowing the person who claimed is town (or rather what I meant is while scum may push wagons post-claim, I would find it ard to believe that they actually START a wagon on a townie post-claim).

[Kalofer]

Also kalofer.
The fact is usually the first lynch might not be a Scum. Out of 13, how easy will it be to get 3/4 Scum?

So what ill do is the same thing when the person you want flips town. Especially since you want to lynch almost half the players.

NOOOOOOO REALLY?? I thought every person we lynch flips scum. When did I say I want to lynch half the players?

"So what ill do is the same thing when the person you want flips town", please clarify this sentence.

[Hazard with a Glove]

You said you'd like to see _________ lynched instead of ya, but you listed 6 different people, almost half the game.

What I meant by that other phrase is, if you push a lynch and I hop as well as others Edith in a lynch of a town, I will do the same thing you would do.

Again typed on my phone while on the go.

[Morthas]

I'm honestly confused. LAL really should NOT apply to TS according to Hazard, and yet it is...

I think Hazard is probably scum.

Ugh. These two players' claims are mindfucking me.

So wait, you still think TS is more likely to be scum?

@Hazard:
WHY DO YOU IGNORE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY ACCUSATIONS/QUESTIONS? I believe Avoiding such accusations/questions is scummy since i see this as an attempt to hide something hoping that'll ill get off your back with time

+1 to Zyrc the Lawyer

[Stels]

Vote count 10

Twistedspoon

(5) - Amrun, Nobody Special,

Hazard with a Glove

, Hoppster, vezokpiraka
Zyrconium (3) - Stels, mb53, ToastyToast
Hazard with a Glove (2) - crazypianist1116, Morthas
mb53 (1) - Kalofer
ToastyToast (1) - Twistedspoon
crazypianist1116 (1) - Zyrconium

Not voting: No one!
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is Wednesday, 30th March at 1030 hours (GMT-5), a little more than a week from now.

I missed this before, but I actually don't like what Hazard did. He confirmed TS's role, but then proceeds to vote TS based on LAL. The fact that TS's role info came out before Hazard had any mention of it, makes his role claim a 50/50, which clearly indicates that Hazard wants TS to be removed, voting for NS's "Find" against TS.

UNVOTE: Zyrconium
VOTE: Hazard with a Glove

@Kalofer: Apart from your insults and strangely non-humorous jokes, you pretty much spew garbage yourself.

[Zyrconium]

Stels, if Hazard and TS have different roles(the most likely case if Hazard happens to be lieing), WE CAN TELL!

The only reason we'll get caught out by them is if they're both scum(which I have stated my reasons for not believing), or if they are the same role with different alignments, which is relatively unlikely, but possible as far as we can tell...

All in all, they could both still be scum(opinion: TS couldn't be), but it's not nearly as plausable, and Hazard's move makes a lot less sense as scum protecting a townie.

[Amrun]

Why is it that strange for them to have the same role as different alignments?

I actually see Hazard townbuddying making more and more sense since he's voting for TS.

Think about it.. If we lynch TS for the scummy-looking role and he flips town, how likely are we to lynch Hazard for his supposed role?

[crazypianist1116]

I feel Hazard is lying. TStown => Hazardscum but I can't say anything about what a Hazard flip means.

You can't say anything?

Unvote Vote: Hazard with a Glove

When he flips scum let's lynch TS mmmkay?

But more relevantly,

Who on the TS wagon thinks Hazard is inno?

Took me about 8 hours to realize what inno means. But as I said before:

After thinking about it for a while, both is unlikely but possible.

I'll admit I was hasty to call both of them scumalicious at the time. I've reevaluated my opinions.
Zyrc, if I've understood the mechanic correctly, your assumption that we can prove their role is based on the fact that two candy animals have to volunteer to have their goodies stolen and that scum kills none of the four people (provided killing takes place before stealing). I'm not exactly sure that it's as easy as you think. If they succeed, it doesn't say anything about their alignments (although I would be more likely to believe Hazard is town if he's confirmed visitor).

Rereading.

[Hoppster]

Also:

Firstly, how the hell did you get over your whole 'HOPPSTER IS SCUM THING'?

Ahem.

AHEM.

Answer this please.

Still this.

I've dropped this now you've ignored it so many times!

^ loljk. Answer this still please.

@ TS: If you cannot guess my reasons, please answer the following FULLY:

Do evil people want to know your goodies?

Add clarification is you feel it is necessary to ensure your answer is TOTALLY unambiguous.

perhaps, but only if they can get hold of them
townies like me would want to know where they can get goodies too though

DAMNIT THAT'S AMBIGUOUS.

What do you mean by perhaps? Why would they only want them if they can get hold of them?

It's partly my fault I guess. I'll reword the question:

USING ONLY WHAT IS IN YOUR PM

:
a) Do you have goodies to steal? Y/N
b) Do evil people want your goodies? Y/N, then a reason/clarification if necessary. 'Maybe' is not an acceptable Y/N answer.

Awww how cute. Obviously one can't be 100% sure when playing a guessing game but as far as 100% goes in guessing games I'm sure that Amrun is town because IMO scum would definitely not re start a wagon on someone who they know is town only to get pressure on them the next day so they die as well.

Yes, you can be 100% sure at times. Certain situations arise where it is possible for somebody to be confirmed town. Masons are 100% confirmed town to each other, and certain roles such as the Innocent Child can be 100% confirmed town, and it is possible for night actions to clear somebody as confirmed town.

Perhaps you don't understand the weight in calling somebody 'proven town'. That means to me that somebody is town beyond all doubt, which I can't really say about anybody at the moment (apart from myself, obviously).

you self proclaimed townies

Nobody's actively self-proclaiming themselves as town apart from Twistedspoon...

And yes I am saying scum don't push wagons post-claim, why would they, knowing the person who claimed is town (or rather what I meant is while scum may push wagons post-claim, I would find it ard to believe that they actually START a wagon on a townie post-claim).

This is actually getting silly now.

Using the logic of scum not attacking people they know to be town, why would they attack anybody at all, ever, apart from their scumbuddies?

[Kalofer]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hoppster

[vezokpiraka]

This game is dragging. Vote TS so we can get over it.

[Charlie]

Vote count 11

Twistedspoon (5) - Amrun, Nobody Special, Hazard with a Glove, Hoppster, vezokpiraka
Hazard with a Glove (3) - crazypianist1116, Morthas, Stels
Zyrconium (2) - mb53, ToastyToast
ToastyToast (1) - Twistedspoon
crazypianist1116 (1) - Zyrconium
Hoppster (1) - Kalofer

Not voting: No one!
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is Wednesday, 30th March at 1030 hours (GMT-5)

[Amrun]

Wow, Kalofer, gonna bother to explain? Is that pure OMGUS?

[Nobody Special]

Okay; those of you NOT voting TS, please tell me why. Time for summaries.

I expect 7 responses.

Or two more TS votes.

Whichever, I'm easy to please.

[Twistedspoon]

how abouts because I'm a claimed PR and that'd be too risky for a D1 lynch?

[Amrun]

Honestly, I'm more comfortably lynching Hazard.

But either one. We just need a flip. That's why I haven't changed my vote.

[Nobody Special]

Amrun, summary pls on Hazard, then?

[ToastyToast]

TS is just bad-town. slipped and lied for foolish reasons, but its been like that from the beginning
I am much more confident with my Zyrconium read--its that simple.

[Twistedspoon]

if i hadn't lied I'd have claimed PR for nothing

[Amrun]

NS, I have already done one.

I think Hazard's actions make most sense as scum townbuddying.

But a TS OR a Hazard flip will both inform us of a lot of things and both have a good chance of being scum, so I am okay with either.

And Zyrconium may be scum, but lynching him today is a bad idea because then we're back where we started with Hazard and TS - even if Zyrconium is scum.

He does read scummy to me, though.

[mb53]

Okay; those of you NOT voting TS, please tell me why. Time for summaries.

I expect 7 responses.

I think that both TS and hazard have the same, town-aligned role.

[Kalofer]

Wow, Kalofer, gonna bother to explain? Is that pure OMGUS?

naaaaah I'm doing it for the lulz

[Zyrconium]

@Amrun: When TS flips town it tell you what?(Answer: nothing, btw, it means you still suspect Hazard heavilly of townbuddying, but he still could easilly have been trying to prevent a mislynch with all the info available to him, it'll end in lynching the other one, which is pretty much the exact same situation we're in now, only with less TS and townie X)
How about if Hazard flips town?(Answer: TS is pretty close to confirmed town.... unless they have the same role with different alignments, which is pretty much the exact same argument we're having now...)

@NS: Already done this, unless you've got a real good reason for not reading that I'll be leaving it as is....

[Amrun]

Honestly, my mind is so fucked that neither flip will be that informative to me, now that I think about it... I mean, a little bit, but not as much as I'd like. Here is the gist of it:

-If TS flips town, I'd be more suspicious of Hazard but at the same time more cautious to lynch him in case they're both town.
-If TS flips scum, I'd be less suspicious of Hazard because it's too dumb to be a scumbuddying move, but at the same time, I might not want him in lylo just in case.

Given the nature of the set-up, I think it's ENTIRELY possible that they have the same role as different alignments. So who can say? Ugh.



@Kalofer: Try again.

[Hoppster]

LOOK WHAT I FOUND 6 POSTS ABOVE YOURS, TWISTEDSPOON!
I've actually reached the continuous quoting limit I've been quoting my unanswered question so many times.

I can still quote this bit though:

USING ONLY WHAT IS IN YOUR PM

:
a) Do you have goodies to steal? Y/N
b) Do evil people want your goodies? Y/N, then a reason/clarification if necessary. 'Maybe' is not an acceptable Y/N answer.

I think what Kalofer is doing is that he's trying to get himself lynched to protect his scumbuddy Twistedspoon. This goody-taking mechanic must be very important for scum.

Here (with Twisted at L-4 post-claim) he says he has less of an objection to Twisted's lynch, and he seems more willing to let it happen:

Ok I guess the role PM does make sense and now I have less of an objection to lynching TS (other than that I still think he's town). Lynch him if you want but I want no part in it.

now that I see amrun's (and therefore everyone who supported amrun's case) point of view I guess through your interpretation maybe he does deserve a lynch

However, when the wagon reaches L-2, he becomes much more actively against a TS lynch:

GOOD QUESTION, and what will you do if he flips town? What possible information does town get? That an idiot wasn't scum? And then we have the nightkill of someone like amrun who can now be said to be a proven townie for nothing? And we start from day one with two townies less?
I would feel much better knowing that I eliminated what I see as a potential lurking threat in the form of all those people mentioned above, than feel relieved that an idiot who was puking so much scumminess he totally rocketed off from the scale of scumminess to falling on what I perceive as obvitown so far that I don't believe even WIFOM would excuse him of this (yes for the first time I am dealing with absolutes in a guessing game).

SO ANSWER THIS BEFORE YOU LYNCH:

WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN/IF HE FLIPS TOWN?

@ Kalofer: I'd like to hear your take on Amrun's Role PM stating TS's role to be scum.

@ Twistedspoon: Opinions on Kalofer (specifically regarding recent posts), kthx.


mb53, some of what you've been saying is just not adding up.

My role PM almost flat out states that your

[Twistedspoon's]

role is scum.

Unvote, Vote: Zyrc

I can guess those reasons

[that Hazard has for saying Twistedspoon is town]

.

I did guess that

[Twistedspoon and Hazard have the same role]

however, which is why I backed off of TS.

I think that both TS and hazard have the same, town-aligned role.

What this essentially condenses down into is that your Role PM strongly implies Twistedspoon's role is scum, but because somebody else is claiming the same role, you're disregarding your PM and saying both are town, even though common sense dictates Twistedspoon would remain scum and Hazard would also become scum?