Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys! - Over

[AGar]

But you completely disregard my point; you had no case to begin with since I was in the same boat as those players you found completely town.

It must be nice to over-simplify things, like my main point.

No one else worded their post in a way that insinuated it was a Cecily lynch or bust, aside from potentially Parama. You tried deflecting to Parama for that specifically, and I'm guessing it's because you (scum) thought he was town. Killing him and getting a town flip would have been a good ploy to exonerate you, if he hadn't been the traitor.

You've been posting a lot of smoke-in-mirrors, and until today, you've done nothing extremely pro-active in regards to scumhunting. You've been very passive-aggressive and instead it appears you've aimed to push fluff in the way of things like extremely overdone NK analysis which actually provided NO real analysis, only "Well it could have been A and not B, but it also could have been B but not A."

Also, I've got a strong gut feeling I can't shake. Usually I ignore gut, but when it latches on like this, I'm gonna follow it. The only other time I've had this feeling, it was right, and I ignored it.

[AGar]

As far as AGar vs DH, I have to agree with DH. AGar fails to grasp what DH actually did when he mentioned Parama. Over the course of the game, DH has been townish, and I simply don't buy the "super-bus Akira, lynch Cecily" theory.

What has DH done that is absolutely pro-town in the game?

He caught a slip, and he's coasted on that.

[DemonHybrid]

But you completely disregard my point; you had no case to begin with since I was in the same boat as those players you found completely town.

It must be nice to over-simplify things

Because things are a lot more simple than you're putting them.

In other news, CP is your buddy, and that's good to know.

Funny, you never did point out RBT's lurkiness, at least before his vote.

I was the FIRST to point out her lurkiness.

Hmm.

RBT, can I get thoughts from you on every player still alive so far?

Implies that RBT is lurking.

VOTE: Riceballtail

Pretty much textbook lurker-scum. Latest post projecting about the TS wagon was one of the scummiest posts I've seen in a long time.

AGar picking up on it and immediately voting after I mention her.

....hmm.

I want my answers from RBT before I think about voting.

Funny how two votes and three active lurking claims come right after I ask her for her opinions.

And I even note this.

AGar and CP, your cases are garbage.

[DemonHybrid]

Just for the record, both of you have said, near endgame stage, that "These are gut votes" and have given EXTREMELY limited reasoning in a case against me, while I have pointed out every flip-flop and wagon change of AGars, and will do the same for CP when I have time.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, I wonder why you two are following "gut" reads instead of voting the "OH MY GOD TOTALLY SCUMMY SUNDY 2ND WATCHER CUZ

oOoOoOoOoO wAtChEr ClAiM!~~

"

Doesn't make sense.

Provided Bub and Sundy don't come out of nowhere and hammer me, Sundy's claim is true, it's a very probable 2 scum LyLo, and you two are it. CP just royally screwed both of you because I was actually trying to figure out who the other one was between Bub and CP, assuming it is 2 scum LyLo. CP made it easy.

[Sundy]

I have no intention of hammering.

Bub & DH: should we lynch AGar or CP first??

[DemonHybrid]

I'm very comfortable with an AGar lynch.

Bub, can you post, please?

[AGar]

Lol this town is so fucked, I see.

[Bub Bidderskins]

CP needs to post thoughts. Now.

I didn't know I was going to hammer Oso at the time. I was weighing the options and thought Sundy pointed out some good holes in Oso's argument that I need to reevaluate now. When I asked for the claim, I was leaning towards hammering Sundy. I agree with you on the possible Lylo Bub. Don't vote unless you're positive!

You were leaning towards hammering Sundy, but you hammered Oso when he claimed vanilla townie. What was it about Oso's claim that made you want to lynch him instead of Sundy?

I think you're a bit confused. Sundy was the one who I asked to claim not Oso as he already claimed. I didn't lynch Oso because of his claim but because of Sundy around page 24ish.

Sorry, you're right. Oso claimed back on D-3.

What has DH done that is absolutely pro-town in the game?

Throughout the whole game he has posted content and generally helped the town. And yes, him catching the scum-slip is a town tell in my book. He has given his opinions, and has generally been assertive throughout the game.

Right now, I'm for a CS lynch. His vote on DH was very opportunistic. Also, to this point Crazypianist has been on

every single mis-lynch wagon

. He was first on Cecily, fourth on RBT, and hammered Oso. True, he hammered Akira as well, but at that point Akira was dead in anyway and he was probably just going for WIFOM.

Vote: Crazypianist

I personally think he's a better scum bet than AGar.

[Enigma]

Votecount 5.2

He who fights monsters take might care lest, hereby becomes a monster.

DemonHybrid (2) - AGar, crazypianist1116

AGar (1) DemonHybrid
crazypianist1116 (1) - Bub Bidderskins

Not Voting (1) - Sundy

With 5 Alive it takes 3 to lynch, 2 to no lynch.
The

deadline

is 1:00am 4th April GMT+10.30.

[DemonHybrid]

I suppose there's no harm in lynching someone who is going to flip scum anyway.

Unvote, Vote: crazypianist1116

AGar lynch next.

[Sundy]

Claim CP?

[DemonHybrid]

Since it's customary to claim at L-1, I'm a Vanilla Townie. Figured I might as well say that while people are mentioning claims, though I'm sure that was expected at this point.

[crazypianist1116]

I claim VT as well. Sundy, I at the very least want to see a case on me that I can refute before you vote me.

DH's case on AGar stinks. That's why I voted DH. If you want me to be more specific:

Day 1: Akira's slip was obvious yet he uses AGar's vote on him as evidence.
Day 2: Was only 3.5 hours long.
Day 3:

Day 3: All mentioning of Cecily was with the "DH is chaining lynches" theory and nothing else. In fact, AGar said nothing about Cecily Day 1, except for this post:

Twisted is almost assuredly town.

Explain pl0x. I'm intrigued by this particular read.

Cecily-scum is trying to start a counterwagon on Twisted.

Interesting.
Tech explanation.
I grok.

I've been hanging out with Thor too much...

Which kind of contradicts the "Hey, he was definitely town and you were chaining lynches" opinion he had...

This quote came from before the incident where TS was thought to be lynched but really put at L-1. AGar then states on Day 3:

Well we have confirmed town at least.

The contradiction is not valid since the faux-lynch changed things.

He gave no reason for calling AGar's Oso vote scummy so I don't have a clue why he put it there.
Sundy's vote on D4 I saw this as a valid explanation:

As for my "WTF 2nd WATCHER LYNCH LYNCH" coming out of "nowhere" - I missed the end of D4. Again, this game has been flying at a quicker rate than most games where certain events happen in a matter of hours rather than over the course of a few days. So when I saw a second watcher claim, my first thought was "Yeah, we lynched that jackass." Instead we lynched Oso. That was probably the second-dumbest town play I've seen.

Throughout the post, DH said things such as:

Up to this point, he hasn't mentioned Oso. He was third on the wagon.

This is coming off of his TS wagon, which he was late on. 4th, to be exact.

Then, his vote for Sundy. Again, 3rd on the wagon.

To which I point to Rule #1

With this reasoning as well as:

The DH-AGar voting for each other tells me either:
a. We aren't in LyLo and/or
b. One of you is scum

I voted for DH.

Continuing my case on DH:

Hmm.

RBT, can I get thoughts from you on every player still alive so far?

Implies that RBT is lurking.

No it doesn't.

Just for the record, both of you have said, near endgame stage, that "These are gut votes" and have given EXTREMELY limited reasoning in a case against me, while I have pointed out every flip-flop and wagon change of AGars, and will do the same for CP when I have time.

I said no such thing. AGar said no such thing. Sure AGar may have said:

Also, I've got a strong gut feeling I can't shake. Usually I ignore gut, but when it latches on like this, I'm gonna follow it. The only other time I've had this feeling, it was right, and I ignored it.

But the key word there is ALSO.

Also, I wonder why you two are following "gut" reads instead of voting the "OH MY GOD TOTALLY SCUMMY SUNDY 2ND WATCHER CUZ oOoOoOoOoO wAtChEr ClAiM!~~"

Now this is deflection. I believe it was you who gave no reason for switching your Sundy read.

Right now, I'm for a CS lynch. His vote on DH was very opportunistic. Also, to this point Crazypianist has been on every single mis-lynch wagon. He was first on Cecily, fourth on RBT, and hammered Oso.

How was my vote opportunistic? Also, if you want to play the VCA game like DH did, go ahead but you're going to need to say what was wrong with my votes not just that I was on the wagons. By your logic, you should also be looking at DH and yourself since you two were both on two of the three mislynch wagons.

[DemonHybrid]

Day 2: Was only 3.5 hours long.

Once again, I didn't say anything about Day 2.

This quote came from before the incident where TS was thought to be lynched but really put at L-1. AGar then states on Day 3:

He was talking about Cecily.

To which I point to Rule #1

Which you didn't read.

“Well, then, where is the most likely place for scum? At the start of the wagon? ” Nope. It’s in the middle.

No it doesn't.

Me asking RBT for reads after a "Hmm" doesn't strike you as me saying "RBT, you're lurking. Give us more reads please"?

I said no such thing. AGar said no such thing.

Oh, right. You said your gut was towards AGar but your brain was towards me. I retract that, but the fact that AGar had included "this is gut ALSO" means that...it's gut. Partly, at least. Yes, even with the also.

I believe it was you who gave no reason for switching your Sundy read.

I gave plenty of reason on why I switched my Sundy read. I posted four times in a row last page, one of them was specifically on why my Sundy read changed. Might want to read them.


Your vote is opportunistic because you're riding a case instead of going with the obvious Sundy lynch. If you really think that two watchers is impossible (which, I don't see why ANY sane scum would have claimed a 2nd watcher after the 1st died), then why aren't you voting him?

That's right; because AGar made a case.

So, you're about 1 for 15. I take back that I said you voted on gut, but your case looks so made up and nongenuine that I had mixed the two.

[crazypianist1116]

Day 2: He doesn't vote Cecily or mention him.

When something's in your vote post, I take it to mean you're using it as evidence against the person you're voting for.

He was talking about Cecily.

Great. I thought he was talking about TS. My mistake. That doesn't clear the point that calling Cecily town and saying you were chaining lynches are two different things.

As for the vote analysis. I felt like you were trying to imply AGar was late on the wagon not towards the middle. If that's what you're thinking, then say that.

Re: RBT
You could have asked that question of anybody. It's not going to ring any bells unless one goes back into the thread and sees her patterns.

Re: Gut
There's a big difference between "These are gut votes" and "I have a case on you and my gut concurs."

Re: Sundy
You explained why two watchers was possible. You however did not vote Sundy because you thought a second watcher contradicted the first. Surprisingly enough, you really didn't have good reasons for voting Sundy:

1. his prod
2. his absence on the Akira wagon, like a Cecily light. This is more on the null side, given Cecily's town flip
3. His bickering with Parama, and Parama's death.

The only one which is slightly valid is 3. But we still have no clue whether Parama was trying to bus or buddy his teammates so that's not really valid either. Then you don't bother responding to Sundy's rebuttal.

If you really think that two watchers is impossible (which, I don't see why ANY sane scum would have claimed a 2nd watcher after the 1st died), then why aren't you voting him?

I never said that.

[DemonHybrid]

When something's in your vote post, I take it to mean you're using it as evidence against the person you're voting for.

Yeah, but that wasn't a main point of mine. I posted that to keep a tab on what happened Day 2, but I never said that that was something I found him scummy for. I sort of wrote along as I went, and some things I thought were ultra scummy, some things were only just worthy to note, and those were one of those things. But my main point has nothing to do with his Day 2 actions.

You could have asked that question of anybody. It's not going to ring any bells unless one goes back into the thread and sees her patterns.

So, you see me turn around to someone who hasn't said a word and ask that. How does that not imply lurking?

The fact that AGar outright said "RBT ur lurkin" before I got a chance to put those exact words in writing doesn't mean that I didn't mean it in the first place.

There's a big difference between "These are gut votes" and "I have a case on you and my gut concurs."

The case from AGar is awful, and so was yours. So..it's mainly just gut. AGar's only saying "You said this about Parama...and er.....yeah, scummy cause this case. Plus gut" which really means "I only have a gut reason for voting you". With you, it was just a mistake, which I have noted.

You explained why two watchers was possible. You however did not vote Sundy because you thought a second watcher contradicted the first. Surprisingly enough, you really didn't have good reasons for voting Sundy:

Because coming off of the RBT lynch, I really was at a loss for leads and I thought he was the best bet.

Posted after my Sundy vote:

On the one hand I'm not sure DH's reasons on sundy hold much water. Basing your two townie reads off of past games seems slightly weak to me. It's evidence which we can't challenge

On the other hand It's hard to accuse DH of anything since he started the akira wagon (although that being said it was Parama, the mafia traitor, who found the scumslip) :/

I'll have to look elsewhere for now =|

It's the best I have on anyone at the moment.

And it was. Sitting around not voting and not looking for information isn't going to do anything.

I never said that.

Sundy's vote on D4 I saw this as a valid explanation:

As for my "WTF 2nd WATCHER LYNCH LYNCH" coming out of "nowhere" - I missed the end of D4. Again, this game has been flying at a quicker rate than most games where certain events happen in a matter of hours rather than over the course of a few days. So when I saw a second watcher claim, my first thought was "Yeah, we lynched that jackass." Instead we lynched Oso. That was probably the second-dumbest town play I've seen.

[DemonHybrid]

To clarify on my "Day 2 he didn't do this" post, I was doing a vote analysis. When AGar pointed out that he had no time to do anything Day 2, I concurred. That wasn't really my main point anyway...my main point is that he wagonhopped like a beast and is trying to lynch someone opposed to him instead of trying to convince them of the obvious lynch to him, which would be the 2nd watcher Sundy lynch. The fact that you two are NOT voting Sundy is a clear indication that you're trying to get by on a makeshift case, and there's no genuineness by laying off the vote for Sundy.

Sundy can drop the hammer now, lest we start beating a dead horse. If you really are a Watcher, which I believe you are, you should know that there is a very good chance that there are 2 scum left, and if you believe my case, you know that Bub didn't hammer and is not scum.

[Sundy]

If there is a scum-team, then given the vote distribution, there are only 2 possible scum-teams:

DH/Bub
Crazy/Agar
(DH/Crazy could be a team, but then it doesn't matter which one dies; Agar/Bub could be a scum-team, but then either one could have hammered an innocent long ago)

1) Agar started a counter-wagon when Crazy was being called out
2) DH caught a scum-slip and nailed the first scum
3) DH believed my claim rather than pushing an easy lynch, whereas Agar put me at L-1 with no explanation

If you want to refute that, CP, you've got a couple hours.

[AGar]

If there is a scum-team, then given the vote distribution, there are only 2 possible scum-teams:

DH/Bub
Crazy/Agar
(DH/Crazy could be a team, but then it doesn't matter which one dies; Agar/Bub could be a scum-team, but then either one could have hammered an innocent long ago)

1) Agar started a counter-wagon when Crazy was being called out
2) DH caught a scum-slip and nailed the first scum
3) DH believed my claim rather than pushing an easy lynch, whereas Agar put me at L-1 with no explanation

If you want to refute that, CP, you've got a couple hours.

1) Yes, because it was a shitty wagon.
2) Oh boy! I've caught my own partners' scumslips before in order to be the ONE who caught first scum. It's called aggressive bussing, and it does exactly what it's doing now - let's scum coast on something miniscule.
3) When did I put you at L-1 with no explanation? I came in today and put you at L-2, realized potential LYLO and then unvoted? And so he's town because he believed your claim? Oh god lol.

[Sundy]

Then explain why DH/Bub are scum, Agar.

[crazypianist1116]

So you're assuming 2 scum and then using process of elimination? Assume 1 scum for the time being. Where do your thoughts lie?

Regardless,

1) Agar started a counter-wagon when Crazy was being called out
2) DH caught a scum-slip and nailed the first scum
3) DH believed my claim rather than pushing an easy lynch, whereas Agar put me at L-1 with no explanation

1. I guess you're talking about the day 1 wagon. I only had 2 votes on me at the time which is when AGar voted [winger]. He didn't really start a counter-wagon as I didn't really have a wagon on me at the time.
2. Fine that's part of a town read on DH. Could you elaborate a bit more on why you think he's town?
3. Well, DH did believe your claim D5 but he didn't D4. Besides, AGar can no longer logically believe DH/Sundy scum team as you would have already voted for me. Which means (provided he's town) he's thinking DH/Bub, DH/me (unlikely), or that this game has only one scum in it. AGar, I'd like to here your thoughts on this.

Ninja'd - AGar, Sundy is talking about this:

VOTE: Sundy

Still not comfortable with DH, but I can't get anything more than uber-bus/chaining lynches and the NK analysis, which isn't enough here.

Sundy, you're now at L-1. Enjoy, scumbag.

[AGar]

Then explain why DH/Bub are scum, Agar.

I've outlined DH-scum.

I'm not going to chain a partner to him until I have to, because I think this isn't LYLO, as I've said. DH's case stinks of just pushing another mislynch through, like one lone scumbuddy.

[Sundy]

Voting time. If Bub/DH are scum-team at LyLo, I don't see motivation for DH to suddenly defend me when AGar was perfectly willing to lynch me, which would have been the necessary number of votes for a mis-lynch.

It's possible there's 1 scum left, but given my role I doubt it. I don't like Pianist's defense of Agar, DH was accusing RBT of lurking, and he certainly did give an explanation for his switched view of me.

vote: Pianist

[crazypianist1116]

Wow what a fail. I'm town. Game likely isn't over as I don't really see Bub/DH but I could be wrong. My call is DH.