Newbie 1072 - Game Over!

[Charlie]

Yes.

[Dazzy]

Ah 'tis good to be back. Y'know, minus the bodies and such...

Mass claim eh? An interesting idea. I'll give my somewhat-reluctant approval, mainly because I have my own thoughts on the topic and I'm not sure I understand the strategic benefit of it for town.
[In terms of the "who's most scummy" part, is this where we make cases, or do we all just blurt out a name?]

Either way, I'll take the time we spend deciding to do a reread.

[Mute]

It's where we say "I think X is scummiest so they should claim," then make/build/expand upon cases from there.

I'm for it but I'm noming Charlie.

[Ghostlin]

Ah 'tis good to be back. Y'know, minus the bodies and such...

Mass claim eh? An interesting idea. I'll give my somewhat-reluctant approval, mainly because I have my own thoughts on the topic and I'm not sure I understand the strategic benefit of it for town.
[In terms of the "who's most scummy" part, is this where we make cases, or do we all just blurt out a name?]

Either way, I'll take the time we spend deciding to do a reread.

You mention who you would like to claim.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: You generally want the scummist players to go first, so in case they claim a PR and someone else has it, they can counter claim.

[Dazzy]

Alrighty then.

I'm for it. Nomination incoming.

[Dazzy]

This has been a very strange game compared to those I've read. Lots of crazy people lol.

I nominate Ghostlin to go first.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
King: I asked him point blank how he would know Mer was the doctor because he used the word

protect

. Not

target

, not

investigate

. Are you trying to twist that into a pretzel for your own purposes, or are you ignoring the assertion that he used that word in reference to Mer when Mer didn't bring it up and we both know it?

There's such a thing as scum slips. I was applying pressure to see if he slipped.

I

NEVER

asked Dazzy his role, and he volunteered cop on his own. There were a million ways Dazzy could of answered the question without revealing role information, and he didn't reveal said information until three posts later

without my prompting.

In fact, wasn't it you that said "well, if Dazzy's the cop, he would automatically assume that the other role was the doctor." There's some veiled rolefishing for you.
...

Going 'Hey, how do you know that [piece of information not readily available to town]?' IS NOT ROLEFISHING.

That's essentially what I asked

, but you know, keep pounding that rhetoric there. It seems to work for you, scum.

Also, as for your second part of that:

there's more than one misrep done here. Mer's lied to the town. This makes him scummy. TS acted scummy.

With the information we had at the time, no, I've not been sad to be part of either wagon. I'm not certain that Mer's VT at this point, but you sure as hell are sure.

1. Except you only applied pressure at one point and didn't continue to push him, or express in suspicion of him, or even

mention

him after the original post, if you actually thought it was a scum-slip you would have, I don't know, actually showed signs of thinking that he was scum?

2. It is rolefishing if one of the only ways you could know the info is if you are the cop.

3. You did not ask, you accused. Odd that you said you were pushing him earlier in the post when in would make you seem less like scum, but at the other points in the post you try to make it sound less notable by saying you were just asking a question.

4. "It's ok for me to misrep because the person I am misrepping is scummy!" Yeah, that is essentially what you are saying here.


I nominate Ghostlin to go first.

[Charlie]

Ghostlin goes first. Then, KingTwelveSixteen as per his earlier request. Then he'll choose who goes next.

@Mute:Nomming, heh heh.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

So, I was ISOing Ghostlin to see if I could figure out who his partner could be and I found some stuff.

...
About the RB: Three possibilites with anyone who softclaims a role: 1) They die. 2) They're RBed. 3) They're scum.
...

There is a fourth option, scum leave PR alive to try and mislynch him.

...
King will probably get a second look if Mer flips town, but his attack against me almost seemed timed for when Mer picked up suspicion.
...

Never explained why if he thought I was defending Mer with my attack on him he would only give me a second look if Mer turned up town.

...
Also, about information, I agree that if I flip scum, this will give you a lot of info and advantage. But if I flip town,

what info will you get, specifically?

And yes, I demand an answer. But only from you. Other people, please ignore the question.

...
If you flip town, and I'm not convinced of that still: we can analyze the wagons from Day 1 and Day 2, read over what's been said about both lynches, and the flip also gives out information that town can use.
...

What an unspecific response.

OK, Folks. Time for massclaim, we're in lylo, now's the time. Way I've always heard this done is we say who we find the scummiest, and majority has that person go first. They then choose someone to claim, and then someone else, so on and so forth.

The last two nights and lynches have sucked, let's hope we can sort this out.

I nominate King to go first.

What not analyzing the wagons from previous days.

Potential scum partners: Dazzy, Mute.

More likely to be Mute; I've had a town read on Dazzy for most of the game.

[Charlie]

Ooh, yes, wagon analysis. Good idea. Let me get on that in the next day or two.

[Meransiel]

BAH.

If you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post except for a brief “Bah!”-type post

that contains NO game related information

.

Meransiel, you need to pay attention to the rules set. I can't do anything further to you, but I can randomly Modkill someone from your team, which in this case would lead to a Town loss.

~Vel

[Ghostlin]

Claim: Cop

Investigations: Charlie is town. King is scum. That order, and I was not blocked either night. I

will

die tonight, but I did catch one of the scum last night. (The depressing thing is I should of investigated someone I thought town the second night, but this actually is my first rodeo as an investigative role: anyone BUT tclawren that's currently playing flipping town would of told me both scum, not just one.)

I fully expect to be counterclaimed, odds are by King or his scum buddy, so here's evidence I'm the cop:

1) I leave a breadcrumb on last two pages of 361

. I do fuck it up a little, spelling the word 'am' twice, but highlighting the first letter of the second paragraph and going on down:

S

o, to recap what I did in this post:

C

ertain player asked if it was early for nightkill speculation.

U

nderstanding what I know from previous games, I had said it was.

M

y next post was a simple question about information that no one would of known from the information in front of them.

I

then asked the player exactly what they meant by that, and got an answer.

A

n interesting stretch to misrep me, tho'.

M

aybe you're trying too hard?

A

nyway, as it stands, I feel that Mer's a good lynch for the day.

M

er's done what normal people would accuse of rolefishing, and the only other case you have is my hammer, which most of town agrees is quite townie.

C

ertainly, if we're both around Day 3, you can find more convincing evidence about your case.

O

f course, in tabulating any case, I recommend a PBP, remembering what was said in context.

P

erhaps, if anyone needs one I can assist with giving out one of my own?

SCUM. I AM (AM) COP. The SCUM part is in reply to King, who was my next investigation and indeed, it turns out I was right.

2. My reversal of my Charlie read beginning of Day 2.

I rode Charlie and Twisted hard the first day. Then I go 'rereading his first posts of Day 2, I feel Charlie's not scum after all. Reprising to a null.' I never mention in text Charlie is scum again. I had received the investigation, so I knew that Charlie was our confirmed innocent. In fact, I upgrade him through out the day in a way that doesn't arouse suspicion.

3. Being so paranoid about rolefishing, yet try to get a counterclaim out there.

I admit this openly, but that's because I knew Mer was passing a bad bill of goods (all vanillas, my ass), had soft claimed a PR when he didn't have one, lying to town. I ask Dazzy about him claiming doctor for Mer really for a few reasons: 1) Mer hadn't claimed and I wanted to hear his claim, and Dazzy pulls out the 'Mer is doctor' thing. Again, could be either powerrole and

I know who the Cop is

. So, yes, I accused him of having information town wouldn't know because he pretty much, you know, claimed it. (Also, if Dazzy had, in fact been the roleblocker, he might of slipped and teleprompted who he blocked Day 1.) It's in my PM Vel sent at the beginning of the game. It's the whole reason why I stirred the pot Day 1 about role fishing with Charlie, I didn't want to be outed as the Cop.

4. The TS hammer.

Probably the most debated thing I had done this game, and I did do it for the same reasons I outline at the end of Day 1: I also did it it because the majority of town would see it as town play, yet scummy enough to be considered a possible lynch Day 2 so scum wouldn't Night Kill me. (A power role does town little good if the power role's dead.) I also wanted to investigate Charlie, eliminating two suspects off the list. The bummer thing was Mer was town gambitting instead of scum gambitting, and so I was wrong Day 2 about my suspicions on him. (I'm a Cop, not God.) I don't kill soft claimed power roles that are dumb enough to be outed the same night. I let scum do it for me, and if they're still alive a day that's not Lylo, I lynch them. Which I did, and was wrong. Lynch all liars isn't a 100% thing, but you do catch more scum than town that way.

5. I waited until massclaim to open this up.

I could of outed King with my first post, protected Charlie Day 2: there's no gain in doing so until now. Until you're in a Lynch or Lose situation where you all claim, can name the last scum, or are at L-1, you never claim your PR. Ever. Even when it gives you information no one else except scum is privy to.

I

am

going to vote for my scum investigation:

KingTwelveSixteen

, and demand he go next.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP:

Vote:KingTwelveSixteen

[Ghostlin]

...
King: I asked him point blank how he would know Mer was the doctor because he used the word

protect

. Not

target

, not

investigate

. Are you trying to twist that into a pretzel for your own purposes, or are you ignoring the assertion that he used that word in reference to Mer when Mer didn't bring it up and we both know it?

There's such a thing as scum slips. I was applying pressure to see if he slipped.

I

NEVER

asked Dazzy his role, and he volunteered cop on his own. There were a million ways Dazzy could of answered the question without revealing role information, and he didn't reveal said information until three posts later

without my prompting.

In fact, wasn't it you that said "well, if Dazzy's the cop, he would automatically assume that the other role was the doctor." There's some veiled rolefishing for you.
...

Going 'Hey, how do you know that [piece of information not readily available to town]?' IS NOT ROLEFISHING.

That's essentially what I asked

, but you know, keep pounding that rhetoric there. It seems to work for you, scum.

Also, as for your second part of that:

there's more than one misrep done here. Mer's lied to the town. This makes him scummy. TS acted scummy.

With the information we had at the time, no, I've not been sad to be part of either wagon. I'm not certain that Mer's VT at this point, but you sure as hell are sure.

1. Except you only applied pressure at one point and didn't continue to push him, or express in suspicion of him, or even

mention

him after the original post, if you actually thought it was a scum-slip you would have, I don't know, actually showed signs of thinking that he was scum?

2. It is rolefishing if one of the only ways you could know the info is if you are the cop.

3. You did not ask, you accused. Odd that you said you were pushing him earlier in the post when in would make you seem less like scum, but at the other points in the post you try to make it sound less notable by saying you were just asking a question.

4. "It's ok for me to misrep because the person I am misrepping is scummy!" Yeah, that is essentially what you are saying here.


I nominate Ghostlin to go first.

1.

Misrep AGAIN

. Mer had all but fake claimed a PR at this point and said, 'I made it up.' You can't vote the most scummy person and someone you find mildly suspicious (or does something mildly suspicious) at the same time in this game.

2. Doesn't make any sense under a microscope. Yes, I am the Cop, but I don't get role information so I wouldn't know Mer was a doctor from Santa. I could infer it, but why would I when I could counterclaim him? If Dazzy had claimed Cop, I would of known he was lying. At no point did Dazzy claim cop, and admitted in twilight he wasn't. Mer hadn't claimed at this point, so we didn't know what PR he was, so why was Dazzy trying to claim for him?

Yes, I was hoping Mer was scum and picked the wrong role to claim.

In a 2 Goons setup, that is entirely possible.

3. I accused Dazzy of having information he didn't have, which he

admitted

to? This point is blatant tunneling at it's finest.

4. Let me ask you a yes or no question, since you seem to do better with those: You did or did not hint that Dazzy knowing Mer was the Doctor was because Dazzy was the Cop?

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
1.

Misrep AGAIN

. Mer had all but fake claimed a PR at this point and said, 'I made it up.' You can't vote the most scummy person and someone you find mildly suspicious (or does something mildly suspicious) at the same time in this game.

2. Doesn't make any sense under a microscope. Yes, I am the Cop, but I don't get role information so I wouldn't know Mer was a doctor from Santa. I could infer it, but why would I when I could counterclaim him? If Dazzy had claimed Cop, I would of known he was lying. At no point did Dazzy claim cop, and admitted in twilight he wasn't. Mer hadn't claimed at this point, so we didn't know what PR he was, so why was Dazzy trying to claim for him?

Yes, I was hoping Mer was scum and picked the wrong role to claim.

In a 2 Goons setup, that is entirely possible.

3. I accused Dazzy of having information he didn't have, which he

admitted

to? This point is blatant tunneling at it's finest.

4. Let me ask you a yes or no question, since you seem to do better with those: You did or did not hint that Dazzy knowing Mer was the Doctor was because Dazzy was the Cop?

1. You can, however, mention that you are suspicious of them being scumpartners, or perhaps mention small, scummy things they have done whilst still voting for the person you find scummiest, instead of just deciding to completly ignore them.

2. How about,

under a microscope

you are assigning motivations and knowledge of you claiming cop to my post

WHEN YOU HADN'T CLAIMED YOU WERE THE COP YET.

Heck, you did the

same thing

earlier, trying to say that things that have happened since my post make my reasoning behind the post bad since I would

obviously

already know things that nobody has even mentioned yet! Nice job claiming cop by the way, scum. Thats pretty much the perfect excuse for your role-fishing as it is the only way it wouldn't be scummy.

3. This point of Ghostlin has nothing to do with my point. I said that you were claiming to be pushing him while at the same time phrasing it such that your accusation was as non-noteworthy as possible. Bending your own words around like that to try and make your motivations look as townie as possible instead of just stating which of the two was your actual motivation is scummy.

4. Once again has nothing to do with my point. I didn't "hint" at it, I flat out said it and used it to accuse you and Mer of rolefishing. On top of that it had already been blatantly pointed out by Mer before I first mentioned it. Also once again, you are justifying your own scummyness by saying that others are also scummy, instead of actually defending yourself.

I am VT, Mute claims next.

Vote: Ghostlin

Just because somebody claims a PR in LyLo doesn't make it true. This is one of those not-true cases.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Oh yeah, and Ghostlin? You still havn't tried to analyze the previous wagons like you said you would. Nor have you explained why you tried to weasel out of giving specific things that we would learn if Mer flipped town, which he did.

Lying is scummy. Weaseling out of answering questions is scummy.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

So, I was ISOing Ghostlin to see if I could figure out who his partner could be and I found some stuff.

...
About the RB: Three possibilites with anyone who softclaims a role: 1) They die. 2) They're RBed. 3) They're scum.
...

There is a fourth option, scum leave PR alive to try and mislynch him.

...
King will probably get a second look if Mer flips town, but his attack against me almost seemed timed for when Mer picked up suspicion.
...

Never explained why if he thought I was defending Mer with my attack on him he would only give me a second look if Mer turned up town.
...

Never explained these either actually. Claiming cop does not let you get out of explaining yourself.

I'm really hoping that the 50% chance you took for being CCed by claiming cop blows up in your face.

[Dazzy]

Just wanted to say I'm here. Adjusting reads and waiting for rest of claims before giving input.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

MULTI-POST-ULTIMATE-COMBO-MATIC-MACHINE

...

Yes, I was hoping Mer was scum and picked the wrong role to claim.

In a

2 Goons setup,

that is entirely possible.
...

Two goons? Oh, I wonder how you know there isn't a roleblocker, hmm?

[Mute]

MULTI-POST-ULTIMATE-COMBO-MATIC-MACHINE

...

Yes, I was hoping Mer was scum and picked the wrong role to claim.

In a

2 Goons setup,

that is entirely possible.
...

Two goons? Oh, I wonder how you know there isn't a roleblocker, hmm?

Since you asked for it:

Claim: VT

I call Charlie to go next.

Now then
What makes you so sure that there is one? I can trust Ghost's claim as he's had a town read from me the entire game. Combine ghost's claim of you being guilty and this post just feels really smug to me. I know, that doesn't make sense, but how I read the posts in my head this sounded so smug and sarcastic.
My point in that is I can't help but wonder if this is a slip.

HoS: King1216

Prove to me you're town and I should dismiss Ghost's claim or eventually I'll change that to a vote.

[Dazzy]

I guess we're almost done. This next claim will possibly confirm a suspicion I've been having lately. Won't say what it is yet.

Seeing as we're not done with claims yet, I don't think you guys should be giving out too much info and getting all hyped up, we can still learn from these claims, and more content means more clues for scum on what they should say.

Charlie, you're up my friend.

My day has been pleasant, but now I just want these claims over and done with, and it's upsetting me. Excitement is not something I generally handle well lol. Don't keep me waiting =).

[Dazzy]

EBWOP: I was following a train of thought from before Mute's post in terms of the giving scum clues thing. This statement is not me calling Charlie scum. Or myself... I told you guys I'm stressed.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count 3.1

KingTwelveSixteen - 1 (Ghostlin)
Ghostlin - 1 (KingTwelveSixteen)

Not Voting - 3 (Charlie, Dazzy, Mute)

3 to Lynch.

Click for Deadline

[KingTwelveSixteen]

MULTI-POST-ULTIMATE-COMBO-MATIC-MACHINE

...

Yes, I was hoping Mer was scum and picked the wrong role to claim.

In a

2 Goons setup,

that is entirely possible.
...

Two goons? Oh, I wonder how you know there isn't a roleblocker, hmm?

...
Now then
What makes you so sure that there is one? I can trust Ghost's claim as he's had a town read from me the entire game. Combine ghost's claim of you being guilty and this post just feels really smug to me. I know, that doesn't make sense, but how I read the posts in my head this sounded so smug and sarcastic.
My point in that is I can't help but wonder if this is a slip.

HoS: King1216

Prove to me you're town and I should dismiss Ghost's claim or eventually I'll change that to a vote.

Excuse me? That post was me saying that Ghostlin said that there were only goons when we have no evidence of such, and the only people who would know that would be the scum. I never said there was a roleblocker. I believe you said Mer was scummy for doing the same thing, have you so suddenly changed your mind now that it is Ghostlin that is doing so?

And then you say that unless I can prove that Ghostlin isn't the cop or that I am town you will vote me, even though it is impossible to do so, and you completly ignore the rest of my case on him. Defending your scumbuddy much?