Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[Cecily]

Yeah, fitz I'll admit I was all for lynching voided when everyone thought he was scum because everyone else was just as down. I was willing to do it because it would have helped us actually understand what was going on. That was before pappums admitted to gambitting.

Now that pappums has come clean with his intentions I am no longer certain and I know that nothing other than night will come out of quicklynching. You still seem to think that killing someone is the best course of action. It isn't and trying to push it is scummy.

Don't quote me out of context, because I promise it will not work, I will call you on it, and it's making you look like you're flailing.

The only reason it looks like a contradiction is because the situation has changed.

Hi Bub. Please, no more bussing me into a 3.5 hour lynch. kthx.

[Voidedmafia]

...

eh-heh...eh-heh-heh.

If I wasn't so dead-set on Rat, I'd probably vote you for that.

Also, why wouldn't it be at this stage? Unless everyone was all kinds of active for reads, a lynch will provide the stimulus that rat was trying to get.

[Bub Bidderskins]

...

Are you reading through this and commenting as you go?

Yes. A quick glance at the current vote count tells me that obviously something happened.

[andrew94]

alright pine is scummy because he unvotes and votes pappums again??

why would you do that

hint: change ur order in vote count

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I just kinda overlooked that cuz I thought it was a typo or something. Certainly not a scumtell.

[Idiotking]

I'm inclined to think that pappums' overreaction is just a result of being constantly trolled by fitz. It's not the overt kind with a lot of cussing, though. It's the gnawing, nagging kind, a lot of little jabs here and there that alone don't mean much but together get pretty insulting. He clearly has a low opinion of everyone who is in any way against him, and he doesn't mind voicing it. To me it looks like more of a "stop being an asshole" type thing that you get on all forums, not just mafia ones.

[Pine]

...

Seriously, Andrew?

Seriously?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm inclined to think that pappums' overreaction is just a result of being constantly trolled by fitz. It's not the overt kind with a lot of cussing, though. It's the gnawing, nagging kind, a lot of little jabs here and there that alone don't mean much but together get pretty insulting. He clearly has a low opinion of everyone who is in any way against him, and he doesn't mind voicing it. To me it looks like more of a "stop being an asshole" type thing that you get on all forums, not just mafia ones.

Well, if he didn't actually look at those posts (I didn't really look because I was doing something non-game-related at the time), then fitz hounding him for not answering is completely justified.

In that context, pappum's overreaction certainly looks scummy.

[Pine]

alright pine is scummy because he unvotes and votes pappums again??

why would you do that

hint: change ur order in vote count

Okay, now that I've gotten the sarcastic response out of my system and repressed the urge to smite the stupid in you, I'll explain. Using small words and typing slowly.

I unvoted...and voted again...for emphasis.

I mean, really? To change vote count order? Why the hell would anyone bother? OH NOES, I'M THIRD THE NERD IN THE VOTE COUNT.

Also, please learn to capitalize, use punctuation, and spell out your words. Using question marks in a declarative statement confuses and actually changes your meaning, and replacing 'your' with 'ur' just makes you look like an idiot. Or perhaps a child.

Damn...I really did start this post with patience in mind...oh well.

[Voidedmafia]

*heavily resists typing sarcastically, though it's what I'd usually do otherwise*

I really want to know how that's a scumtell, anyways.

[havingfitz]

First of all...a little reminder:

Why is pappums the best choice for a lynch?
- The

only indisputable fact we have in this game

is that pappums lied and deceived town. (scummy)
- Repeatedly ignoring accusations and question towards him. (scummy)
- Misrepping/overexagerrating to pad a weak case. (scummy)
- Ad-hom attacks in lieu of rational debate. (scummy)
- AtE with "moar votes plz." Maybe if he had said "pretty plz" he would be moar convincing?

Add to these his lack of contribution the last week+ and his coming unglued for IMO no good reason.

---

To my new #2 suspect (who I would switch my vote to now if I thought it would result in her lynch). I would invite town to look over her posts and see what little she has contributed (not the amount of posting but the content). Look not so much at her reasons for voting Void and neil (neither of which I had an issue with) but rather for her vote changes.

After pappums' lie is confessed Cecily says she still finds VM suspicious and thanks him [PR], proclaiming he [PR] is now

"pretty much cleared"

in her book. She then chooses to let her vote linger on VM.
When she does move her vote off VM and on to neil...its for neil's language, though she makes no mention of no longer suspecting VM. Also, no suspicions of neil were mentioned prior to her vote so I would assume her only suspicion was his language. I would ask people to note that she voted neil in post 235.
Then without any previously voiced suspicions of me, Cecily decides to vote me. She determines neil no longer warrants her vote becuase

since he [neil] has claimed that he never actually believe fitz to be scum I feel like I can overlook the names as just a shift of character, and not as a scummy move.

The trouble with this logic is that neil stated he didn't think I was scum both before (post 223) and after (post 230) his ad-hom attacks. Her vote on neil came AFTER he had already stated he thought I was not scum. So how can she vote him and unvote him for things he did prior to her vote on him????? For those not paying attention...Cecily's post 235 came after neil's posts 223 and 230. So how is this contradiction not obvious Cecily?

Then Cecily tapdances around her vote on Voided:

Yeah, fitz I'll admit I was all for lynching voided when everyone thought he was scum because everyone else was just as down. I was willing to do it because it would have helped us actually understand what was going on. That was before pappums admitted to gambitting.

First off Cecily...when do you think I was pushing for Voided's quicklynch? BEFORE pappums admitted lying to us! That's when. How does that make your and my actions any different? Are you even thinking about what you are posting???? I've given my reasons for wanting an early D1 scum result to have a quicklynch. You were just as quick to vote him and echoed my sentiments with this comment:

I don't think we need to wait the entire continuation of this day unless someone is going to admit to being scum, and I think it would be more useful to learn if Voided is actually scum or not before continuing on with deliberations over who his buddies are. We can always come back and re read these pages tomorrow, and knowing explicitly who is lying would definitely be better than throwing random guesses around.

But now you deceide to hold it against me.

Now that pappums has come clean with his intentions I am no longer certain and I know that nothing other than night will come out of quicklynching. You still seem to think that killing someone is the best course of action. It isn't and trying to push it is scummy.

He "came clean" with his ~intentions 10 days ago, before you voted neil. So why are my actions with regard to pappums' lie (which your comments/actions were in line with) all of a sudden voteworthy? I have not advocated any sort of quicklynch since pappums "came clean" so if you are inferring that you would be misrepping me. If you aren't inferring that then why are you voting me? And of course I think lynching someone [scum] is the best course of action...isn't that the object of the game? Trying to push a lynch is scummy? I guess that makes ten of us scummy by the current votecount.

Don't quote me out of context, because I promise it will not work, I will call you on it, and it's making you look like you're flailing.

The only reason it looks like a contradiction is because the situation has changed.

I am not flailing....I'm pointing out what is blatently clear. Feel free to call me on it and show me where I'm in error,

---

While I am at it....nice to note scum #3 [IK] is "blindly" defending pappums.

I can not lay out all three of their inconsistencies/cases any more clearly.

tl:dr;

pappums is scum; Cecily's last two posts were terrible...make absolutely no sense, and are full of contradiction and hypocrisy; and IK is scum.

[Rhinox]

Votecount 1.13

andrew94 (0) -
Pine (0) -
neil1113 (0) -
P.T. Barnum (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Bub Bidderskins (0) -
mikemike778 (0) -
Idiotking (0) -
tarsonisocelot (0) -
Voidedmafia (0) -
Cecily (0) -
havingfitz (5) - mikemike778, pappums rat, Jahudo, Idiotking, Cecily
pappums rat (5) - Voidedmafia, havingfitz, andrew94, neil1113, Pine

not voting (3): Bub Bidderskins, P.T. Barnum, tarsonisocelot

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is

Sunday, April 3 at 9:00PM EST

.

[Cecily]

So, fitz, pretty much right now you're regurgitating what my actions were and calling them scummy. Thanks, but I'd like to leave it up to everyone else how they view what I've been claiming.

How is me stating that I voted him because it would have helped us know what was going on tap dancing? I wasn't avoiding my reasons for voting him. Those were my reasons, I clearly stated them before pappums came clean, and I'm not going to go back and try and change that.

You were pushing a quicklynch on voided before pappums claimed, as was I because when no scum is willing to associate himself with voided it's pointless to try and drag it out. All that would get us is pissed off townies and less helpful information than we started with.

I'm calling you out on your obscene willingness to lynch pappums now. You've been jumping around pointing at pappums saying he's scum, he's scum, but all you've been focused on is his gambit. The rest of us are over it, moved on to something more worthwhile - the stuff that came out of his gambit. And you are sitting on something that you know to be a safe platform to lynch from. You're using his gambit as an excuse for his lynch which would be fine if there weren't other people who looked scummier.

Notice how the rest of us have pretty much gotten over his gambit and are now on to making claims based on people reactions to it. You aren't. Because steering yourself to a topic other than his gambit is dangerous, because as soon as you relieve him of that guilty claim there is nothing else to go on. I am past his claim, and I see something else... you.

And I will call you on contorting my quotes. One was taken from before pappums came out, and the other was after. As I have clearly stated my intentions do differ between those times and so quoting both times and trying to draw the same conclusions out of them is ludicrous.

Let me make myself perfectly clear. I do not hold your vote on voided against you. I do not hold your willingness to quicklynch voided against you. I

do

hold you unwillingness to accept pappums gambit as simply a gambit against you.

I completely agree with the frustration pappums felt that led him to quoting cee lo green. Seriously. And claiming that he said it out of anything other than sheer frustration will lead me to ask what kind of life you've been living that you've never wanted to express those feelings and how can I get in on it?

[havingfitz]

So, fitz, pretty much right now you're regurgitating what my actions were and calling them scummy. Thanks, but I'd like to leave it up to everyone else how they view what I've been claiming.

By regurgitating do you mean the quotes from you that prove your contradictions and hypocrisy? What's wrong with that?

How is me stating that I voted him because it would have helped us know what was going on tap dancing? I wasn't avoiding my reasons for voting him. Those were my reasons, I clearly stated them before pappums came clean, and I'm not going to go back and try and change that.

No...but last thing you said in your ~explanation for voting me was

"Pushing a quicklynch without much information is very scummy. And that's why I'm voting fitz."

Which is hypocritical considering you were advocating the same thing I was.

You were pushing a quicklynch on voided before pappums claimed, as was I because when no scum is willing to associate himself with voided it's pointless to try and drag it out. All that would get us is pissed off townies and less helpful information than we started with.

What is your point? This is what I have been pointing out to everyone and it supports my comments just above. ????

I'm calling you out on your obscene willingness to lynch pappums now. You've been jumping around pointing at pappums saying he's scum, he's scum, but all you've been focused on is his gambit. The rest of us are over it, moved on to something more worthwhile - the stuff that came out of his gambit. And you are sitting on something that you know to be a safe platform to lynch from. You're using his gambit as an excuse for his lynch which would be fine if there weren't other people who looked scummier.

What is obscene about wanting to vote someone? That's the point. I do think pappums is scum. I have not focused only on pappums lie (which you immediately absolved him of and cleared him for it)...if you have been paying attention I have pointed out several other suspicions I have on pappums. Nice misrep. And I have looked at other players (ironic you haven't noticed).

Notice how the rest of us have pretty much gotten over his gambit and are now on to making claims based on people reactions to it. You aren't. Because steering yourself to a topic other than his gambit is dangerous, because as soon as you relieve him of that guilty claim there is nothing else to go on. I am past his claim, and I see something else... you.

Still a MISREP. You're repeating yourself. See my last comment above.

And I will call you on contorting my quotes. One was taken from before pappums came out, and the other was after. As I have clearly stated my intentions do differ between those times and so quoting both times and trying to draw the same conclusions out of them is ludicrous.

You aren't doing anything other than saying you are calling me out. Which comments am I taking out of context or out of order? Not the neil unvote quotes...those are there for all to see. Which quotes do you refer to?

Let me make myself perfectly clear. I do not hold your vote on voided against you. I do not hold your willingness to quicklynch voided against you. I

do

hold you unwillingness to accept pappums gambit as simply a gambit against you.

It wasn't a gambit against me....it was a lie against voided that could have resulted in a potential mislynch and it is not what I am focusing on. And as for not holding my VM vote against me....what are you referring to in the

quote

I italicised earlier in this post? <headshake>

I completely agree with the frustration pappums felt that led him to quoting cee lo green. Seriously. And claiming that he said it out of anything other than sheer frustration will lead me to ask what kind of life you've been living that you've never wanted to express those feelings and how can I get in on it?

Et tu Cecily? So essentially you are telling me the same thing pappums rat did but in a checken shit manner. Just say it. Coupled with all your apologies to

us

for this and that you are trying too hard not to offend/annoy. And do you really feel the need to act that way (like cee lo) based off pressure from one person (moi)? Shame. If you feel the urge to curse others out for gameplay on a mafia site I can only hope your life improves and you eventually get over it.

So why were you voting me again?

[Idiotking]

So who do you consider scum at this moment, fitz? Besides pappums and me, I mean.

[havingfitz]

So who do you consider scum at this moment, fitz? Besides pappums and me, I mean.

You're joking...right? 'Cause you made me laugh

[neil1113]

So who do you consider scum at this moment, fitz? Besides pappums and me, I mean.

Either you're joking, not paying attention, or just trying to annoy him... either way, I laughed at this post.

If you're serious, his top three suspects as made clearly known are you, Cecily (the only girl if I'm not mistaken in this game), and Pappums.

[Idiotking]

Neil, that's the point. His scumlist consists entirely of people who are against him. I don't think that's a coincidence.

[Idiotking]

Which makes me think several things:

1. Fitz either does not understand that the town should deliberate instead of acting quickly (which he has said is not scummy), or he is scum.
2. Fitz either genuinely believes that three scum are all on his wagon, or he is being reactionary, which is scummy.
3. Fitz does not have a good understanding of how this game is played, regardless of whether or not he is scum.

[Idiotking]

(What I was trying to do was get him to post his list, and then copy/paste from his wagon on the mod's votecount. Guess it didn't work out.)

[havingfitz]

IK...

1) Every plays differently. There is no always right method. To say so just makes you feel better in justifying your weak points towards me.
2) I have expressed suspicions towards neil as well but the points I have towards him pale compared to my top three. There is no reason that 3 scum could not be on my wagon. I am not presumptuous enough to think I have caught three scum but the three I am targetting the most are the people I suspect the most.
3) Nice ad-hom.

[Pine]

Fitz has convinced me that Cecily should be suspect #1 on D2.

But seriously, can someone tell me why people aren't voting for PR?

[mikemike778]

i have seen plenty of townies say they want to lynch new replacements in a number of games, so this is null.

I've only played 3 games plus this so its not exactly conclusive - but I've never seen this and I have seen scum NK new reps (and read them discussing it in their QTs) so I disagree - it is scummy in my book.

PEdit: Pappums rat needs to die. The desire to lynch replacements is not null, it's scum. And LAL is tried and true. Gambiting like you did holds zero benefit for Town.
I'm usually very, very against speedlynches, but the day has already fallen into bickering and recursion. Let's get done with this.

But seriously, can someone tell me why people aren't voting for PR?

Well as I've said previously - I'd disagree that gambiting like this has no potential benefits (heck we might still be RVS ing now without it) and I've not seen anything else that screams scum at me from Rat unlike Fitz so my vote stays there for the same reasons as before.

alright pine is scummy because he unvotes and votes pappums again??
why would you do that
hint: change ur order in vote count

Thanks for that ... information stored for future

binning

erm, use I mean. Andrew, what are your thoughts on Fitz ?

Alarmingly after reading 385, I'm kinda finding myself agreeing with my chief suspect Fitz regarding Cecily as well.

[havingfitz]

Alarmingly after reading 385, I'm kinda finding myself agreeing with my chief suspect Fitz regarding Cecily as well.

That's two posts in a row you've agreed with me. You're getting better. Now if you can just put down the WIFOM and vote PR (pick any of the several reasons I've provided) we'll be getting somewhere.

[pappums rat]

lulz hardcore @ fitz telling me to contribute more. slapping together wallposts with already used material and omgus'ing 3 people on your wagon is really contributing, isnt it? lololol.

fitz, in one sentence please tell me why you think ik is scum.