Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Setael]

To be perfectly honest, my entire hope is to out the doc so I can have at least 1 more person I can trust. Also, with the Cop dead, there isn't anyone particularly awesome that the Doc needs to protect anyways. Add this to the fact that scum have less control over night kills than in a normal game, and I'd say that the Doctor is hardly necessary at this point.

OK, but if we look at the numbers, we might not have control of the night vote. If that's the case, the scum would definitely off the doc.

8 people alive, 7 after today's lynch. Scum have 2 votes each. So with Ant's 2 votes (hoping he's town) we probably have 5 votes and the scum probably have 6. They can't vote for themselves, but they could vote for someone we weren't planning on or something.

Has anyone ever seen a role where a doc kills whoever they protect? Any chance someone thought they were protecting FF and he ended up dead?

We need to get a solid scum-suspect. We've spent 2 days arguing stupid cases, allowing people to line up lynches like CRAZY, and blaming people for the most superficial tells ever. This stuff has to stop.

We DO. We did yesterday. AMRUN. And how would the doc being outed give you a stronger scum suspect anyway?

I still want Tragedy to answer why she voted TS.

[Tragedy]

Wait, if Ant is doublevoter, shouldn't the Witch be killing him instead? I find this disturbing, to the fact that he's still alive today after 2 Nights.

Also, TS. Out of all honesty, I find TS a bit more trustworthy than anybody else (FF comes second).
Though, I just like to randomly vote people who I would expect to not really get much votes during the night anyways.. >_>

[Ant_to_the_max]

Wait, if Ant is doublevoter, shouldn't the Witch be killing him instead? I find this disturbing, to the fact that he's still alive today after 2 Nights.

Aww...why did you have to go and twist that up? Or bring it up at all? Tsk tsk tsk.
They only knew about me for this last night. Although FF became more of a confirmed townie yesterday then me. And thing about it, if I was scum, this game would be over right now.

[Amrun]

Wait, if Ant is doublevoter, shouldn't the Witch be killing him instead? I find this disturbing, to the fact that he's still alive today after 2 Nights.

Aww...why did you have to go and twist that up? Or bring it up at all? Tsk tsk tsk.
They only knew about me for this last night. Although FF became more of a confirmed townie yesterday then me. And thing about it, if I was scum, this game would be over right now.

Why would the game be over?

And I read this as, "If scum had a night ability, why wouldn't they have killed Ant, the double-voter?"

I'm not sure what Tragedy actually meant as Ant's reply brought up a different possibility.

It did make me think, though...

Why WOULDN'T they? Ant is basically confirmed town, and idk why Ant said FF was, but FF wasn't.

FF was also Exe's biggest competition / least supporter after Umbrage.

Hmm.

[Tragedy]

If Ant is basically confirmed town, then he's a goody-two-shoes puppet for the scums.
And now I shouldn't have forgotten we have an Executioner already..

[Setael]

How is it possible that tragedy doesn't understand that if we all just voted at random each night, scum would gain control of the NK? Boggles the mind.

It's true that ant could've won the game already if he were scum. He'd kill a townie and there'd have been no consensus of who to vote at night so scum wouldve controlled the night kill and suddenly we're 3v3.

Tragedy and Amrun are scum. Possibly with TS. Haschel has me worried - he's been mia enough that it's tough to get a read on him. Same with charter. Exe and Ant are town.

[Setael]

Wait, if Ant is doublevoter, shouldn't the Witch be killing him instead? I find this disturbing, to the fact that he's still alive today after 2 Nights.

Aww...why did you have to go and twist that up? Or bring it up at all? Tsk tsk tsk.
They only knew about me for this last night. Although FF became more of a confirmed townie yesterday then me. And thing about it, if I was scum, this game would be over right now.

Why would the game be over?

And I read this as, "If scum had a night ability, why wouldn't they have killed Ant, the double-voter?"

I'm not sure what Tragedy actually meant as Ant's reply brought up a different possibility.

It did make me think, though...

Why WOULDN'T they? Ant is basically confirmed town, and idk why Ant said FF was, but FF wasn't.

FF was also Exe's biggest competition / least supporter after Umbrage.

Hmm.

So annoyed you weren't killed yesterday.

[Amrun]

So don't care about your annoyance.

[Tragedy]

It's hard to know whom to trust. Obviously, in my perspective.

[Twistedspoon]

We need to get a solid scum-suspect.

why can't that be you?

you sure look mighty suspicious since FF (a big critic of yourself) died, and we all voted for you (except tragedy)

And i don't buy setael's 'quack doc' excuse.

Tragedy and Amrun are scum. Possibly with TS.

explain why me

I believe the only case on me was wanting a majority for the d1 execution. It was between Umbrage and SV and I asked that we had a majority when we lynched them. As they both flipped town this case is no-longer valid, as even Charter admitted

And thing about it, if I was scum, this game would be over right now.

1)how
2)sounds like wifom

Although FF became more of a confirmed townie yesterday then me.

How exactly?

[Haschel Cedricson]

This post is mostly thinking aloud, so some of this is probably going to sound super obvious.

Alright, we have two night killers who both look scummy. First off, Amrun announced she was going to make a suboptimal choice, then actually made it. Secondly, Exe promised he would do nothing, and then something happened.

Either Amrun is scum, or scum saw an opportunity to get town to execute town.

Either Exe is scum lying about what he did last night, or the scum have a night kill ability after all.

Something about Exe's ultimatum rubs me the wrong way; if he is scum, he pretty much forced us to give him the night kill and the whole "kill me if it doesn't work out woah don't kill me after all" seems like a plausible gambit for scum to pull.

I'm assuming we have three scum, because if we had four then the game would be over.

I think our best course of action is looking at the claimed night votes from Night 1:

Amrun (1): Umbrage,
Final Fires (5+1): Setael, Amrun, Ant_to_the_max, Twistedspoon, Exe
Haschel (2): charter, Tragedy
Charter (1): Haschel
Umbrage (1): StrungOver

According to what everybody said, FF should have gotten the nightkill. Amrun actually got the nightkill.

First off, we can all agree that Ant is town. Furthermore, if Amrun is scum, then she could not have voted for herself. Amrun would have no reason to lie about who she voted for, so I'm going to assume that regardless of alignment, Amrun voted for FF.

Amrun (1):

Umbrage

Final Fires (2+

1

or

2

): Setael,

Am

run

,

Ant_to_the_max

Umbrage (1):

StrungOver

If Satael, TS, and Exe are telling the truth, then FF would have received the kill Night 1. This did not happen. Therefore, at least one of those three is lying.

Hypothetically, let's assume that one person who claims to have voted for FF is scum and actually voted for Amrun:

Amrun (3):

Umbrage

,

scum

Final Fires (4+

1

or

2

): Setael,

Am

run

,

Ant_to_the_max

,

town, town

Umbrage (1):

StrungOver

If TWO people who claimed to have voted for FF are scum, then that makes 5 votes for Amrun vs. either 4 or 5 votes for FF. That's not enough to get a majority if Amrun is scum, but it is enough if Amrun is town.

Therefore, either Amrun is town and two out of (Setael,TS,Exe) are scum or Amrun lied when she said that she voted for FF. If the former, then Exe is almost certainly running some sort of gambit today/last night.

Now let's assume the lie. This makes Amrun scum. FF has two votes, Amrun has one vote, and some other non-Amrun player has two votes. We're still looking for two scum to vote for Amrun, but now the field is open. Out of the set (Setael,TS,Exe,charter,Tragedy,Haschel), two people are lying about their votes. Which two? I think Tragedy has given odd choices for her night choices; me and TS. I would choose Tragedy for my primary choice of Amrunpartner. charter and I voted for each other, likely for similar reasons, and charter voting for me is a move that I honestly believe he made, so he's out. You'll have to decide for yourself if my vote made sense (hint: it does). We're down to Satael, TS, and Exe again, only this time only one of them is scum. Reading the Sateal/Amrun interaction, I don't feel that they are scumbuddies.

Scum possibilities:
Exe/(Setael or TS)/???
Amrun/Tragedy/(TS/Exe)

I'm not sure who to put in the question marks, which is frustrating because I think Amrun is more likely to be telling the truth about who she voted for than not.

Right, I need food, so I'm going to mull this over over lunch.

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP:

Hypothetically, let's assume that one person who claims to have voted for FF is scum and actually voted for Amrun:

Amrun (3): Umbrage, scum
Final Fires (4+1 or 2): Setael, Amrun, Ant_to_the_max, town, town
Umbrage (1): StrungOver

Delete Setael's name from this list, because for purposes of that chart, Setael is either the scum or one of the two towns.

If one of charter/Tragedy/me is scum, then they would also vote for Amrun here, bringing the total to five votes Amrun and either 5 or 6 votes for FF, which still isn't enough to make Amrun the night killer.

[Twistedspoon]

So annoyed you weren't killed yesterday.

So don't care about your annoyance.

Reading the Sateal/Amrun interaction, I don't feel that they are scumbuddies.

Could be bussing or distancing.
That's how I'd do it if I were scum. It's almost a perfect example of bussing/distancing.
They make it appear as if they hate each other.

I mean what is really the point of "So annoyed you weren't killed yesterday" if not to bus or distance?

Basically, If one of them flips scum, I wouldn't rule the other one out for good

oh, and just checking, but did everyone vote Exe last night except for tragedy?

[Tragedy]

So why Exe out of all people?
Most people have trusted FF, but...

[Setael]

I had to think about this a little while (it took me longer because I don't want to let go of my opinion that Amrun is scum.) So... in order to buy into your reasoning Haschel, we have to assume you're a townie because from my point of view (and from the point of view of all of the townies), there is the possibility that everyone who voted FF N1 is town. In that scenario, FF only got 6 votes N1 (Setael - 1; Amrun - 1; Ant - 2, TS - 1; Exe - 1). That would be less than the 7 votes Amrun got (6 from the scum plus Umbrage) and would explain why Amrun won the vote. This would mean that the 3 remaining scums are Haschel, TS and charter.

Thinking about the N1 votes does make it seem like Amrun can't be scum. *sigh* (This doesn't make me feel as sheepish as you might expect. It just makes me angry that Amrun, if town, made such a TERRIBLE horrible NO GOOD anti-town move.)

Anyway, here's what I'm thinking: If Amrun were scum who couldn't vote for herself, then she only got 5 votes N1 (4 votes from scum buddies + 1 from Umbrage). This would also put FF's wagon up to 7 since Amrun would then have 2 votes and it'd look like this: (Setael - 1; AmrunScum - 2; Ant - 2, TS - 1; Exe - 1). **I'm not going to entertain the idea that Amrun, as Scum, lied about voting FF because there's no reason to and every reason not to considering possible watching/tracking PRs**. I think Haschel mentioned this but if the other 2 scums actually claimed to vote FF when they really voted Amrun, then the FF wagon could've actually been 5 votes: (Setael - 1; AmrunScum - 2; Ant - 2). In this case, there'd have been a tie.

Have we asked the mod what would happen in the even of a tie vote at night?

If just one of Exe or TS were scum, then it would look like this: (Setael - 1; AmrunScum - 2; Ant - 2, TS - 1), FF would've gotten 6 votes and he'd have been elected night executioner. So that wasn't the case. I'd like to know what would happen in the event of a tie, but this makes it seem more likely that Amrun is actually not scum. (If she is scum, both Exe and TS have to also be scum in order for Amrun to get more votes N1 than FF).

So then, assuming Amrun is not scum (this is very difficult for me) she got 7 votes N1 from the scum and Umbrage. Though there is a chance that everyone on FF was a townie and Haschel, TS and charter are the scum group, I don't think that's likely at all. This is mostly because scum certainly knew that FF had been mentioned as a backup and they knew that they'd get the least amount of suspicion if they said they voted FF (when they really voted Amrun). I think at least 1 of Exe and TS are scum.

I do have a question for Amrun. You stated:

I made too many assumptions. I see that now. I normally think about things a lot before doing them, but in that moment, I didn't fully think about how people would be confused and not knowing who to vote for.

I realized some things a little later, after I thought about it more, but it was too late then, so when I got elected, I went ahead and did what I said I'd do.

What did you realize a little later (but before you were elected)? Did you realize that it was probably mostly scum who had voted you executioner? Did you decide to go ahead and execute vezok KNOWING that it was likely scum that had voted you as executioner? Do you see why I am so angry with you if you are town? (and why I still find myself thinking you're scum in spite of the glaring night vote evidence.)

@mod: What would happen in the event of a night vote tie? Sorry if you already answered this and I don't remember.

[mallowgeno]

In the event of a tie at night with votes, no one would get the night kill

[Setael]

So Amrun is probably not scum. TS almost definitely is. The lame posts about me possibly bussing Amrun are scumtastic.

[Setael]

TS, Tragedy and charter is the scum team.

[Tragedy]

TS, Tragedy and charter is the scum team.

Since when did you get a conclusion of 3 scums in a 13 player game? >_>

[Haschel Cedricson]

TS, Tragedy and charter is the scum team.

Except if Amrun is town then the scumteam needs to have two of you, TS, and Exe.

[Amrun]

Setael:

I realized that I should have given the town more time to weigh in, despite people calling for day end.

I did NOT consider the idea that scum was voting for me because I really thought vezok was scum.

In hindsight, I feel quite silly, but what do you want me to say? I thought if I got the nightkill, most of town voted for me because scum wouldn't vote me to kill their scumbuddy.

Obviously, I was wrong.

[Setael]

TS, Tragedy and charter is the scum team.

Since when did you get a conclusion of 3 scums in a 13 player game? >_>

Terrible attempt to cast suspicion on me, Tragedy. Flail! Haschel just said this:

I'm assuming we have three scum, because if we had four then the game would be over.

Did you not bother to read his post? Or did you just not feel the need to bring it up until someone named your whole scum team?

TS, Tragedy and charter is the scum team.

Except if Amrun is town then the scumteam needs to have two of you, TS, and Exe.

How do you figure? If only one of them are scum then FF got 5 votes N1 (i.e. Setael - 1; Amrun - 1; Ant - 2, Exe -1) to Amrun's 7 (6 scum votes + Umbrage).

[Haschel Cedricson]

How do you figure? If only one of them are scum then FF got 5 votes N1 (i.e. Setael - 1; Amrun - 1; Ant - 2, Exe -1) to Amrun's 7 (6 scum votes + Umbrage).

You're right; when making my calcs for that paragraph I forgot that if Amrun is town then I needed to account for two extra scum votes from the people who didn't vote for FF.

[Twistedspoon]

So annoyed you weren't killed yesterday.

So don't care about your annoyance.

So Amrun is probably not scum. TS almost definitely is. The lame posts about me possibly bussing Amrun are scumtastic.

but they're not though are they?
this bus/distancing looks so rehearsed

and if that's the only reasons have have against me, an obsevation

anyways, anyone familiar with Occham's razor.

If so would you not mind if i applied it to the case of FF's death?

[Setael]

Vote for day kill: TS

Your posts are seriously scummy. Trying so hard to please the town, and to cast subtle suspicion on me with ridiculous reasons. Did you read my post? If you did, it would make sense to you why I now realize that amrun is almost definitely not scum. I would tell you to reread my D1 as I'm sure it's obvious I wasn't bussing, but you're scum so you already know that. It is very likely one of those who claimed to vote FF N1 was scum. I know it's not me and I don't think it's exe so that leaves you. That combined with how slimy all your posts have been today and you're my choice for today's kill.

I'll ISO if I get time - probably won't be until tomorrow.