Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[Friend]

Hm. The claim is interesting but I'm willing to believe it for now.

vote: Exe

I think it might better serve us to move on to someone equally obv-scum.

[KageLord]

I'll post new reads Saturday afternoon MDT at the latest, but MagnaofIllusion makes a good point against KageLord.

... Which point? That I was being stupid? Because I think we can all agree on that, but that's not really a point against me as far as being town or scum goes.

Believable claim to me.

ABR remains my top scumread. And since I realized that I haven't done this yet:

VOTE: ABR

[AlmasterGM]

Top Three Scumreads:

1) LLD

Her first post, as I stated in my last post, is very problematic. It's all either irrelevant and/wrong. The remainder her posts during the day are very blippy. There's not much content coming from LLD, and the content that does come is not very warranted. Given this, it's hard to forgive LLD for her first major post, as it's really the only one she has.

2) Hrezs

Working from recent to past … right off the bat, why is he randomly claiming Security Officer out of the blue? More importantly, why is he claiming Security Officer WHEN HE DIDN'T EVEN USE IT and thus has no valuable information? Hrezs isn't straight out of the newbie queue, and this move is too much of a fail to be town. He's given himself away as a NK target without any benefit for the town. It's especially hilarious seeing as he said, "I'd prefer not to claim" the day before. His prior post are not golden, either. The early ones are all IIoA (example: by the time we get to ISO #7, he's still talking about psudovotes). He then spends the rest of the day getting into this dumb argument with MoI that never goes anywhere … before throwing an unwarranted vote on DGB. This guy isn't town.

3) KageLord. I explained in my previous post why I did not like his early posts. His later posts have not improved. He spends quite a few posts today stating unjustified scumreads (for example, he names Exe and Friend despite having only quoted one of their posts each the entire game, and MoI despite having cited NONE o his posts) and providing lots of useless setup speculation on the lack of a NK. This is not town behavior because 1) town justify reads and 2) town don't care why the kill didn't happen in an open setup like this one.

Vote: KageLord

I've seen a few suspicions on Exe … can someone explain that to me? I'm not seeing it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: Kublai Klan

I've read his posts again and yes, they seem to be scummy to me too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I believe the claim until there's evidence to prove the contrary. Hrezs you should use your RB on someone the town chooses.

[ThAdmiral]

@ abr: are you voting me because I didn't do what you told me to?

You're on a power trip.

What makes you believe this?

My response is that abr has been bossing people around like he owns the place from almost the very beginning of the game.

Vote: Kublai Klan

I've read his posts again and yes, they seem to be scummy to me too.

Anything in particular? Or is it too uncool to give reasons for votes these days?

[Exe]

Alright, so the suspicions on me don't surprise me in the slightest. DGB called me out pretty strongly shortly before she died, and it's pretty easy for scum to just hop on the suspicions of a dead townie.
However, DGB's case on me was weak at best, which I stated more than enough times D1, so I'd say a few of the people on me are prob-scum.

Toog, for example, who didn't post ANY suspicion on me at the "end of the day" even though he posted right after DGB's case, reads as opportunistic scum.
Coupled with the fact that he hasn't made any real case, I'm not even inclined to take the vote seriously.

In other news, would've slapped a vote on Hresz, but I'd say let the claimed power role live in the off chance he's actually telling the truth.
CKD continues to half-ass his way through the game. Active lurking like a pro there.
Friend has been getting scummier and scummier. His vote on DGB was extremely weak, as I've said before, and I get an attitude of losing interest in scumhunting from him. Probscum.

Kagelord's night action speculation is hella-bad. There's so many reasons why we might not have a night kill, and trying to guess is just making noise. Big

FoS

on that one.

Also, why has Kise still not posted content? He had the entire night phase to catch up.

Anyways, top scum-reads are: Kage, Toog, CKD, Friend, in no particular order because with the number of scum I'm pretty confident all 4 of them are scum.
And I'd say

Vote: Kagelord

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hm. The claim is interesting but I'm willing to believe it for now.

vote: Exe

I think it might better serve us to move on to someone equally obv-scum.

Why is the claim "interesting"?

If you have a problem with the claim, why aren't you questioning it, instead of blindly accepting it?

@AGM: I'm sorry you didn't see any content from me in the first day. Got caught up in one too many games. I am however, confident today that

FRIEND IS SCUM

.

Ooh look! Fancy colors! But seriously, my next post will contain a case on Friend.

[StrangerCoug]

Here's my reads on everybody on the DrippingGoofball wagon except herself and me:

Albert B. Rampage:

Again, weaker scum read than yesterday, but still a likely buddy of Toogeloo if he's scum since he quelched discussion of him on Day 1. His Day 2 posts are pretty short, but I consider that a null tell since I don't think you have to be verbose to be pro-town.

Nachomamma8:

Not likely scum.

Kublai Khan:

His posts post-bandwagon look OK in ISO, but I have problems with his early game. What I hate the most about his play is his push on Wraith for being against breaking the game. ReaperCharlie is not an idiot and neither are his reviewers. You want to know why it's better to play in the spirit of the game? Because we probably have to. To give a different setup for simplicity's sake, it's kind of hard to break a 9:3 mountainous, isn't it?

His attack on Bunnylover is barely any better. That he attacks Bunnylover for thinking all votes are lynch votes and stating BL has never heard of pressure votes is weak. You vote someone outside of RVS, you had better be willing for that person to die.

Plum:

Town.

Bunnylover:

Town.

camn:

Leaning scum on her right now. She slumps on the DrippingGoofball wagon with no clear reason given, and I get an IIoA impression from her ISO.

Friend:

I see very little effort out of him. He thinks his suspects are scummy for... what, exactly?

Hrezs:

Not noteworthy except for the clam.

KageLord:

Scummy. To answer his question, MagnaofIllusion makes a good point about him speculating about the nightkills. I also don't see any strong cases out of him.

Exe:

He's cleaned his act up enough for me to consider him townie.

Magua:

Leaning town.

MagnaofIllusion:

Town.

VOTE: Friend

Major HoS: Kublai Khan

[KageLord]

My thoughts in italics.

Friend ISO:

2-3: Calls for lynch of Wraith and says ThAdmiral is scum.

Not sure if his playstyle is to fake being sure about everything (a la Fate). Not sure if he was at all serious. Null.

5: Says he would strike Wraith at this point if anyone (for the game-breaking comment).

Might be his actual (in my opinion very flawed) belief or testing the waters for a Wraith quicklynch. Very minor scum vibe.

7: Says Toog acted impulsively with quickstrike and thus null tell. Calls out CKD/Hrezs/me for jumping on the quickstrike. Votes me for leaving an out for if Toog flips town in my vote post. Says he still suspects Wraith because he has done nothing but chide Toog for quickstrike.

Most believable so far as a Toog-scumbuddy. As we find out later, Toog was not acting impulsively, but we'll get to that later. The rest of this post basically tries to make it out that anyone attacking Toog is scummy (major chainsaw defense tell if either flips scum), thereby also implying that Toog is town or at least not of the same faction as his attackers, who should be focused on first.

10: After Toog has revealed he wasn't acting impulsively, Friend says it was still null-tell because even though it was anti-town and stupid that's not necessarily scummy.

Continues defense of Toog while still trying to avoid saying he has a real town read on him. I don't see why Friend-town would maintain a vote due to me jumping on Toog's anti-town(!) action. Apparently it is scummy to attack someone that is hurting town.

12: Jumps on Hrezs vote wagon with no reason.

Mmkay.

14: Says Toog had CLEAR anti-town motivation, but not necessarily scum. Says he feels he is defending Toog too much because he doesn't have a town read on him.

This screams scum to me now that I am reading him in ISO. Definitely moves Friend up to #2 and Toog to #3 on my suspect list.

23: Responds to ThAdmiral's case on him by saying he agrees with ABR's defense of him.

lolololol I didn't notice this before, but it just makes the ABR/Friend/Toog/? scumteam too perfect.

37-39: Says he's for a Hrezs or Baby Spice lynch. Says BunnyLover and KK both came out of their exchange horribly. Earlier said he could see it as scum v. scum.

So basically he would be okay with 2 lynches (Hrezs and BS) and there are heavy hints that he might be okay with 3 others (Exe, Bunny, and KK).

Someone had better give me a cookie if there is an ABR/Friend/Toog/? scumteam.

Either going to look at Toog or Exe next, but I would be very happy with either an ABR or Friend lynch at this point.

[Toogeloo]

I saw Kise browsing the forum earlier, so I am a little disappointed he hasn't popped in to say hello.


Exe seems to be flailing a bit, too worried about his own appearance. He tries to debunk me even though I more or less simulposted with DGB that his post against her screamed scum.

KageLord also does look a bit bad with the Night Action speculation, but I will be honest and I thought the same thing as well, he just opened his mouth and said it. I think it's more likely Kage looked dumb, and some people may be trying to take advantage of it. I don't see the scum motivation behind it in a multi-scum team game when you have low numbers to begin with. He's today's Hrezs in my opinion. I think that the people who pushed for Hrezs yesterday and are pushing on Kage today might be worth comparing to the strikes against DGB yesterday. The most opportunistic for all 3 is more than likely scum.

[Kise]

Didn't mean to snub you guys. I was on my phone earlier, checking the phase status of another.

Haven't read past where I was last night... but reading over the past page, I will say that Hrez was likely given that as a fakeclaim. I can't think of any other reason why the mod would not confirm the number of Security Officers, other than to give scum an outing. But I'd rather leave him to be a NK choice than strike him.

From all I've read so far, Kublai has been behaving differently than I'm used to seeing from him. Not sure why he would dick around like this if not to throw everyone off, or at least throw off a particular group/person.

9 more non-towns exist (including the random Inner Circle Citizen) so I'm lazily in favor of picking 2-3 suspicious characters and lining them up behind the guillotine. UT was so obvscum. Boo @ LLD for kissing the DSK's booty.

I'm off Monday, so tomorrow night I won't have a problem staying up reading page 15-->. I've played my heart out in other ongoing games so I'll respect that this is next in line to get my attention.

[Kise]

Didn't mean to snub you guys. I was on my phone earlier, checking the phase status of another

GAME

.

[Kise]

I am a (the?) security officer. Wiki says there are multiple but when running the simulation I would only see one at times.
Did not use a night action as I am limited use.

1) The simulation never confirms that a security officer is even a definite Citizen role.
2) When is the last time you read the Metropolis: Revisited wiki?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'll post new reads Saturday afternoon MDT at the latest, but MagnaofIllusion makes a good point against KageLord.

... Which point? That I was being stupid? Because I think we can all agree on that, but that's not really a point against me as far as being town or scum goes.

Believable claim to me.

ABR remains my top scumread. And since I realized that I haven't done this yet:

VOTE: ABR

multiple people just demostrated suspicion toward you (with and without votes) but you comment just on this, why?

Exe, Kagelord, MOI…scum…scum and scum…your thoughts on those ABR?...also you can throw in Nacho for good measure.

Oooh, ABR?!?

I've seen a few suspicions on Exe … can someone explain that to me? I'm not seeing it.

Mainly his opportunistic play yesterday...which continues today....curious, you think his play as been town? any particular reason?

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai Khan:

His posts post-bandwagon look OK in ISO, but I have problems with his early game. What I hate the most about his play is his push on Wraith for being against breaking the game. ReaperCharlie is not an idiot and neither are his reviewers. You want to know why it's better to play in the spirit of the game? Because we probably have to. To give a different setup for simplicity's sake, it's kind of hard to break a 9:3 mountainous, isn't it?

I don't see what's wrong with my push against Wraith. You can make the tired "playing games is fun!" argument, and many people have. But Wraith's "I'd prefer not to break the game, guys" just sounds so... whiny. To list a preference in Mafia is to say "I'd rather do this, but whatever you want guys". It's like he's a weather-vane, ready to point in whatever direction the majority of town wants.

So, why is my dislike of Wraith worse than anyone else?

His attack on Bunnylover is barely any better. That he attacks Bunnylover for thinking all votes are lynch votes and stating BL has never heard of pressure votes is weak. You vote someone outside of RVS, you had better be willing for that person to die.

WTF is with the rash of people who are quick to say shit like "I don't like his posts" but aren't actually following it up with why or try to ask me any questions for clarification? Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage, Kise, and now you StrangerCoug.. There's even a couple of votes on me from people testing the water to see if a wagon is possible.

[StrangerCoug]

Kublai Khan:

His posts post-bandwagon look OK in ISO, but I have problems with his early game. What I hate the most about his play is his push on Wraith for being against breaking the game. ReaperCharlie is not an idiot and neither are his reviewers. You want to know why it's better to play in the spirit of the game? Because we probably have to. To give a different setup for simplicity's sake, it's kind of hard to break a 9:3 mountainous, isn't it?

I don't see what's wrong with my push against Wraith. You can make the tired "playing games is fun!" argument, and many people have. But Wraith's "I'd prefer not to break the game, guys" just sounds so... whiny. To list a preference in Mafia is to say "I'd rather do this, but whatever you want guys". It's like he's a weather-vane, ready to point in whatever direction the majority of town wants.

So, why is my dislike of Wraith worse than anyone else?

I dislike the Wraith wagon in general. There are people I don't address; however, I wanted to focus on the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon since I think I'll be able to get more information about that than about the ABR/Toog pairing.

I also disagree about what is meant by "preference" as I don't think the "whatever you want" part applies per se. For example, before the DGB pile-up, I said I wanted one of the people I suspect are buddies dead; however, I also said lynching Hrezs is fine. Did I have a preference? Obviously. Was I fine with drawing a random name out of a hat and then lynching that person? No, and nobody in this game ever was.

His attack on Bunnylover is barely any better. That he attacks Bunnylover for thinking all votes are lynch votes and stating BL has never heard of pressure votes is weak. You vote someone outside of RVS, you had better be willing for that person to die.

WTF is with the rash of people who are quick to say shit like "I don't like his posts" but aren't actually following it up with why or try to ask me any questions for clarification? Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage, Kise, and now you StrangerCoug.. There's even a couple of votes on me from people testing the water to see if a wagon is possible.

I stated why.

[Kublai Khan]

I dislike the Wraith wagon in general. There are people I don't address; however, I wanted to focus on the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon since I think I'll be able to get more information about that than about the ABR/Toog pairing.

Actually, about that.. In your Albert B. Rampage/Toogeloo pairing conclusion, which of the two do you think is more likely to be scum?

I also disagree about what is meant by "preference" as I don't think the "whatever you want" part applies per se. For example, before the DGB pile-up, I said I wanted one of the people I suspect are buddies dead; however, I also said lynching Hrezs is fine. Did I have a preference? Obviously. Was I fine with drawing a random name out of a hat and then lynching that person? No, and nobody in this game ever was.

Eh.. You know better than that, StrangerCoug. I thought his preference in context was scummy, you're arguing that preference as a hard rule isn't a good scum-tell.

WTF is with the rash of people who are quick to say shit like "I don't like his posts" but aren't actually following it up with why or try to ask me any questions for clarification? Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage, Kise, and now you StrangerCoug.. There's even a couple of votes on me from people testing the water to see if a wagon is possible.

I stated why.

Sorry, the quoted part showed that you were making declarative statements about my motivations without bothering to address me first. It's like standing in a room and listening to people talk about you as if you aren't there.

[StrangerCoug]

I dislike the Wraith wagon in general. There are people I don't address; however, I wanted to focus on the people on the DrippingGoofball wagon since I think I'll be able to get more information about that than about the ABR/Toog pairing.

Actually, about that.. In your Albert B. Rampage/Toogeloo pairing conclusion, which of the two do you think is more likely to be scum?

I'm more inclined to go after ABR.

I also disagree about what is meant by "preference" as I don't think the "whatever you want" part applies per se. For example, before the DGB pile-up, I said I wanted one of the people I suspect are buddies dead; however, I also said lynching Hrezs is fine. Did I have a preference? Obviously. Was I fine with drawing a random name out of a hat and then lynching that person? No, and nobody in this game ever was.

Eh.. You know better than that, StrangerCoug. I thought his preference in context was scummy, you're arguing that preference as a hard rule isn't a good scum-tell.

Not true. I was arguing with the semantics of your statement, not that having a preference for something is a tell.

[Exe]

Exe seems to be flailing a bit, too worried about his own appearance. He tries to debunk me even though I more or less simulposted with DGB that his post against her screamed scum.

Lol, right. One post saying "Yeah, Exe is scum," is really top notch content and totally NOT bandwagoning on DGB's reads. /sarcasm Try again.
Also, can you actually back up any of these claims? You say I am "worried about my appearance." I call bullshit. I specifically say that the suspicions AREN'T surprising, and the ONLY reason I am even remotely concerned with the votes on me is because it's a REALLY safe place for scum to hide.

Stop just claiming things and somehow imagining that they are true.

Oh and btw, where's your strike today? I thought you had some awesome super-pro-town reason for striking randomly.
So if we were supposed to believe that somehow it WASN'T anti-town D1, then why has that changed D2? Could it be that you are absolutely full of shit? I'd say so.

[Toogeloo]

I've already explained my reasoning for my first post strike on Day 1. Those with reading impairments should just iso me to find it again.


You are concerned with your appearance because you are in full defense mode. You are trying to parry the attacks coming at you without actually scum hunting anyone else. You are trying to say your wagon looks bad, which is just a terrible defense overall. DGB summed up a pretty good case against you before her demise which I support, she saw the same things I did in your opportunistic post, and your defense against it was something along the lines of "lolmisreadingme."

[Kublai Khan]

I also disagree about what is meant by "preference" as I don't think the "whatever you want" part applies per se. For example, before the DGB pile-up, I said I wanted one of the people I suspect are buddies dead; however, I also said lynching Hrezs is fine. Did I have a preference? Obviously. Was I fine with drawing a random name out of a hat and then lynching that person? No, and nobody in this game ever was.

Eh.. You know better than that, StrangerCoug. I thought his preference in context was scummy, you're arguing that preference as a hard rule isn't a good scum-tell.

Not true. I was arguing with the semantics of your statement, not that having a preference for something is a tell.

Well if you're arguing semantics, then you're also wrong. Your described actions were a compromise. You were willing to lynch ABR/Toog, but compromised and settled for someone else who you didn't have any strong town feeling for. Your action resulted in a specific action towards a specific goal (Vote -> Strike -> Lynch)

What Wraith did was state a preference, without putting any strength or weigh behind it. Not the same.

That all said, I feel dumb arguing against Wraith because A) he's not in the game anymore and B) he's role slot isn't at the top of my scum list right now.

Can we focus on KageLord instead?

[Exe]

I've already explained my reasoning for my first post strike on Day 1.

And now it's Day 2, and your Day 2 actions have CHANGED. I asked WHY. Don't dodge the question.

You are trying to parry the attacks coming at you without actually scum hunting anyone else.

Bullshit.

In other news, would've slapped a vote on Hresz, but I'd say let the claimed power role live in the off chance he's actually telling the truth.
CKD continues to half-ass his way through the game. Active lurking like a pro there.
Friend has been getting scummier and scummier. His vote on DGB was extremely weak, as I've said before, and I get an attitude of losing interest in scumhunting from him. Probscum.

Kagelord's night action speculation is hella-bad. There's so many reasons why we might not have a night kill, and trying to guess is just making noise. Big FoS on that one.

Also, why has Kise still not posted content? He had the entire night phase to catch up.

Anyways, top scum-reads are: Kage, Toog, CKD, Friend, in no particular order because with the number of scum I'm pretty confident all 4 of them are scum.
And I'd say Vote: Kagelord

Where the fuck is that "full defense" mode?
You're seriously making shit up.

Oh and:

You are trying to say your wagon looks bad, which is just a terrible defense overall

It's NOT a defense. Don't try to manipulate my words. It's SCUMHUNTING. This is a multi-scum game, I am not in the least suggesting that a bad wagon means I must be town. In other words, I am not "defending" myself, I am attacking you.

DGB summed up a pretty good case against you before her demise which I support, she saw the same things I did in your opportunistic post, and your defense against it was something along the lines of "lolmisreadingme."

So you admit to sheeping. Got it.

[StrangerCoug]

Well if you're arguing semantics, then you're also wrong. Your described actions were a compromise. You were willing to lynch ABR/Toog, but compromised and settled for someone else who you didn't have any strong town feeling for. Your action resulted in a specific action towards a specific goal (Vote -> Strike -> Lynch)

What Wraith did was state a preference, without putting any strength or weigh behind it. Not the same.

OK, this makes better sense.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I feel like Friend is slipping through the cracks.

Unvote, vote Friend