Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[P.T. Barnum]

I had unexpected guests... tomorrow, I swear!

[pappums rat]

if any one has questions for me, please put them in a clearly visible sentence with spaces on either side of it so i can see that its a question and i will reply. i am not going to go wading through convoluted wall posts just to answer questions that will get me no closer to killing scum.

@mikemike...pappums lie is only part of the reason he has my vote. Are there people who are voting him simply based on his lie? Are you voting me based on that assumption?

what else are you voting me based on?

Gambiting isn't scummy when it's on D4 to protect a power role or to get known scum lynched. Done on D1 in order to get someone who (at the time) was a total null read is remarkably scummy.

lol. vm wasnt a 'total null read' for me, if you had read the thread you would have known that.

Mike: Nothing scummy outside the gambit? Pay attention.

like what?

[pappums rat]

also, people have seemingly been having a hard time making up their minds on whether they are voting me based on lal or whether there is something inherently scummy about gambiting. i have already discussed the proper context for lal, and gambiting in and of itself is null. i have never once said that i am more likely to be town based on this gambit. no one has given me any other reason for why they think im scum other than that i LIED and some hilarious bullshit about my angry 'fuck you' post.

[Voidedmafia]

First of all...a little reminder:

Why is pappums the best choice for a lynch?
- The

only indisputable fact we have in this game

is that pappums lied and deceived town. (scummy)
- Repeatedly ignoring accusations and question towards him. (scummy)
- Misrepping/overexagerrating to pad a weak case. (scummy)
- Ad-hom attacks in lieu of rational debate. (scummy)
- AtE with "moar votes plz." Maybe if he had said "pretty plz" he would be moar convincing?

Add to these his lack of contribution the last week+ and his coming unglued for IMO no good reason.

Good enough for you, Rat, as reasons?

The 2nd one has been REALLY outstanding. Even with IRL things you can still put up some semblance of a reply instead of just going "blah blah already replied" when we can see that you actually have done nearly nothing of the sort.

[neil1113]

Does anyone really disagree with the future possibility of a policy lynch on Andrew? I just don't seem him coming out pro-town... and I've given him chances.

(I'm not saying lynch Andrew right now, just throwing the possibility out there)

[Pine]

I strongly disagree with ANY lynches based solely on policy in a game this size. We don't have the people to spare. Even Andrew.

That said, if there IS a policy reason to add to someone's crimes against the Town, as with PR's case, that's fine.

[Rhinox]

Votecount 1.14

andrew94 (0) -
Pine (0) -
neil1113 (0) -
P.T. Barnum (0) -
Jahudo (0) -
Bub Bidderskins (0) -
mikemike778 (0) -
Idiotking (0) -
tarsonisocelot (0) -
Voidedmafia (0) -
Cecily (0) -
havingfitz (5) - mikemike778, pappums rat, Jahudo, Idiotking, Cecily
pappums rat (5) - Voidedmafia, havingfitz, andrew94, neil1113, Pine

not voting (3): Bub Bidderskins, P.T. Barnum, tarsonisocelot

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is

Sunday, April 3 at 9:00PM EST

.

[Pine]

Just over a week to go. Kinda wish Bub would finish catching up, and PTB and TO would make a decision.

Crap, I've been promising a wall, haven't I? Busy weekend, I'll try to get it up tonight.

[P.T. Barnum]

Pine:
1. Is Xalxe's replacement.
2. He claims there is "no protown reason" for pappum's gambit. Really, Pine? No pro-town reason? Maybe you disagree with it, but there still is a reason, that pappums and others (including myself) have argued: that it started discussion and helped give this game a focus.
3. His reaction to andrew in post 383 is way off. It's almost as if he intentionally overreacted in order to confirm his theory in post 364.
4. Pine is uncomfortably obsessed with LAL, as Jahudo pointed out.

andrew94:
1. In 303, he declares that "we have enough reactions to pappum's gambit". Except for his very recent posts on Pine, however, he focusses solely on pappums. Why would somebody want to shut down discussion on his only lynch target, unless that lynch wasn't convincing in the first place? I realize he defined progress as lynching pappums, but it's still strange to call for an end to discussion about pappums.
2. He slyly suggests that voided is scum in post 165, but does a complete 180 when pappums revealed his gambit. It makes it seem like he knew the alignments of both players beforehand.
3. He refuses to make sense of his posts when asked.

I like lynches on these two. I don't know which is more likely to get a wagon, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say andrew, just because Pine is still a fresh face. If there's interest in Pine I'll switch immediately.

Vote: andrew

Come deadline time, if we continue to limit our choices to fitz and pappums, I'll vote pappums, as I've already said. But I hope that can be avoided.

i have never said that i, in any way, was cleared from being scum. (i even said that previously in a post when people were saying that i was trying to clear myself). what i was doing in that post was trying to make people question whether scum was more likely to take the course of actions that i did or that fitz did

The two aren't exactly the same thing, but they're close. How many times couldn't you say, "which is more likely, a gambit or ___"?

[andrew94]

you are a fool and antitown, my wagon isnt happening and you know it. its definitely pappums today.
why are you voting me then?

[havingfitz]

@pappums again. Did someone say you thought you were cleared because of your lie? Also,

the only reason i am still in this one is because havingfitz is still alive.

So if I'm lynched you're going to replace out? That's nice...I assume you just want to stick around to make some assinine comment if I am today's lynch and then you'll bail (since I would no longer be in the game).

[P.T. Barnum]

why are you voting me then?

I'm voting you because you're scum, and you should die horribly. I'm hoping the town will see reason.

[pappums rat]

HEY VOIDEDMAFIA DONT FUCKING ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT FOR YOU.

I strongly disagree with ANY lynches based solely on policy in a game this size. We don't have the people to spare. Even Andrew.

That said, if there IS a policy reason to add to someone's crimes against the Town, as with PR's case, that's fine.

what 'crimes against the town' are you speaking of? btw my former question still stands: what was scummy outside of the gambit?

@pappums again. Did someone say you thought you were cleared because of your lie? Also,

the only reason i am still in this one is because havingfitz is still alive.

So if I'm lynched you're going to replace out? That's nice...I assume you just want to stick around to make some assinine comment if I am today's lynch and then you'll bail (since I would no longer be in the game).

1. people were alluding to such after cecily said i was basically cleared.
2. no i am not.

my question to you still stands.

top scumreads: havingfitz, neil, voidedmafia.

@ mod: do modkills end the day?

[Idiotking]

I've been terribly busy lately. I should be able to have time to make a substantial post tomorrow.

[neil1113]

top scumreads: havingfitz, neil, voidedmafia.

Lol wow. So basically the three people who have pushed the most for your lynch? Okay, cool. You're kind of like Fitz in a way.

[pappums rat]

lol dipshit i have already said why i had found them scummy BEFORE they voted me.

one thing that i did not explain completely is that your vote for me and blasting of havingfitz is basically the old 'hos scumbuddy vote townie' fallacy.

[mikemike778]

Does anyone really disagree with the future possibility of a policy lynch on Andrew? I just don't seem him coming out pro-town... and I've given him chances.

(I'm not saying lynch Andrew right now, just throwing the possibility out there)

Well if we were going to policy lynch, it should really be day 1.

Having said that I'm not a fan of them unless there's not much else to go on ... my instict still says Fitz and I'm going to back that - would probably only consider a switch to Andrew if it looked/looks like a majority on Fitz isn't going to happen.

[havingfitz]

I wouldn't support a pl on andrew at this point. IMO there are at least three stronger candidates for a lynch. He is playing the way he always plays (hence my initial pl question) but not now.

pappums...whatever your question is I have already answered it in my earlier posts and I believe at least one other owner has mentioned/quoted it. You might actually have to look.

[Rhinox]

@ mod: do modkills end the day?

If there were to be a modkill, the player being modkilled would become a neutral survivor and immediately lose (original role and alignment would of course be revealed), and the game will progress in a manner that is worst for the modkilled player's faction. If town player is modkilled, game goes to night. If mafia is modkilled, day continues. Etc, etc.

[neil1113]

lol dipshit i have already said why i had found them scummy BEFORE they voted me.

one thing that i did not explain completely is that your vote for me and blasting of havingfitz is basically the old 'hos scumbuddy vote townie' fallacy.

So ignoring your obvious failure of a defense to my accusation...

OMGUS anyone? It's not a FOS (what on earth is a HOS? Hall Of Shame?) and vote townie, considering well, I've already acknowledged I'd lynch him if thats where the town is going. I'm just not comfortable with it. It's called "choosing the scummier person and voting for them" and this my friend, is how you play Mafia. Which judging by your horrible defense, you don't know much about.

[neil1113]

Oh haha I forgot, there's also one VERY wrong thing about the "Lynch Scumbuddy and vote Townie" fallacy you accuse me of...

YOU ARE NOT TOWN. Or rather, you're Anti-Town. So Scum or not, you're playing to the scum win condition which to me, shows I have no desire to keep you in the game if you're going to keep going against the town like this. We can't win if you pull crap like this out. So town alignment or not, you're scum.

[neil1113]

And sorry for the triple post, I hit enter too soon. To clarify, so that nobody thinks I'm setting myself up to be justified if he comes up town, I DO BELIEVE he is scum aligned.

[Voidedmafia]

@pappums again. Did someone say you thought you were cleared because of your lie? Also,

the only reason i am still in this one is because havingfitz is still alive.

So if I'm lynched you're going to replace out? That's nice...I assume you just want to stick around to make some assinine comment if I am today's lynch and then you'll bail (since I would no longer be in the game).

I seriously thought there was some Foe Yay going on here. -_-. Don't ask why.

HEY VOIDEDMAFIA DONT FUCKING ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT ARE NOT FOR YOU.

Long answer: no way.
short answer: no.

Don't want me to? Too bad, you'll have to make me, and you can't do that.

I strongly disagree with ANY lynches based solely on policy in a game this size. We don't have the people to spare. Even Andrew.

That said, if there IS a policy reason to add to someone's crimes against the Town, as with PR's case, that's fine.

what 'crimes against the town' are you speaking of? btw my former question still stands: what was scummy outside of the gambit?

Lack of answering questions, lack of BOTHERING to look for questions and/or answers, increasingly belligerent and terse tone with everyone. Those are the most prominent in my mind.

top scumreads: havingfitz, neil, voidedmafia.

Why me, again? Especially pre-gambit, but I want to know post-gambit, too.

It's not a FOS (what on earth is a HOS? Hall Of Shame?)

HoS=Hand of Suspicion. Basically a step up from FoS.

pappums...whatever your question is I have already answered it in my earlier posts and I believe at least one other owner has mentioned/quoted it. You might actually have to look.

But...Rat doesn't like to look!

[Cecily]

Thanks for being unhelpful P.T. Barnum. Avoiding the two main targets at this point only makes you look like you're too scared or dumb to contribute something useful. Town would have something to contribute other than suggesting a PL at this point... My D2 play will most likely be looking at him.

Fitz, I didn't vote you immediately because I was otherwise occupied and had very little time to read through all of your walls. Given time to read carefully through I decided that you were scummier than neil. People are allowed to change their votes on here, are they not? And are you actually reading my posts? I told you where the contradiction wasn't. You still calling me on it makes me think that you're ignoring what I post and just going off of what you initially thought. If you're not even going to give up the time to understand what I'm saying there is absolutely no way anyone is going to change your mind. That is ignorant and seems very anti-town to me.

And I'm not going to get myself into this word flinging argument. I'm not sensitive, but cursing people out over the internet is stupid.

[P.T. Barnum]

Avoiding the two main targets at this point only makes you look like you're too scared or dumb to contribute something useful.

"Avoiding the two main targets"? I've dedicated several posts to the two main targets! Can you really not bother to read more than one post? Or are you covering for yourself if (and when, in my view) havingfitz comes up town?
The idea that we should be limited to either havingfitz or pappums as a lynch is scum-motivated stupidity of which you seem all too happy to be a part.