A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[popsofctown]

[quote="Pops']
The REAL sk is supposed to beat down the PR stuffed mafia AND kill bulletproof "townie" zdenek in 2 man endgame.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL

How does no killing as scum when you're down 234234 member make ANY SENSE AT ALL.

Perhaps it's not an SK, but another scum team that we haven't had any flips from yet, or perhaps there are other roles that successfully stopped the other kill, but whatever it is, since we have a role-blocker, there is no reason not to give this one more night.[/quote][/quote]
OH EXQUISITE.

AN ENTIRE OTHER SCUMTEAM FROM WHENCE COME NO FLIPS. A SCUMTEAM with at least FOUR players who feels SO THREATENED about an inability to lynch zdenek in endgame in spite of their TRUCKLOAD OF VOTES that they'd rather NO kill than let BULLETPROOF TOWNIE ZDENEK continue his most MASTERFUL reign of accurate scumhunting and tear them apart.

And why the heck as a townie do you want one more night? Are you serious? One more night? Have you read your role pm? No, not the one in your inbox. The one you're pretending to have, in the opening post somewhere. It says you win with the town, timestamp on your death notwithstanding. Leaving town zdenek alive one more night to get roleblocked does nothing but consume a probtown roleblock and leave us off track longer, since we have HORRIBLY GONE WRONG in thinking that the modified bulletproof lurking the thread could POSSIBLY BE SCUM OR THIRD PARTY. You can't even keep track of what you want to be faking, you're reading the game with 3-d glasses. Townzdenek wants to campaign for indefinite life so that he can improve the town's endgame headcount, or campaign for a specific person to die after his flip. Not trying to slip into mylo. In FACT, you should realize that you're town VI by now and be offering to make use of today's mechanic to get us more lynches. YOU AREN'T DOING THAT. YOU'RE BEGGING FOR AN ADDITIONAL NK. YOU'RE PRAYING TO PAGAN GODS THAT NEXUS HAS A COMA OVERNIGHT. YOU'RE ASKING FOR ANOTHER NIGHT SO YOUR SCUMBUDDY CAN SHOOT UNINHIBITED AND "PROVE" YOU TOWN.

[popsofctown]

@benmage. Every single Stark has had a power. Traditionally, one player, one night action. We know zdenek's night action is passive. scumzdenek is totally plausible if his partner has a neat power to try and use at the risk of losing the kill.

In any case, if it's not town, you lynch it. Townzdenek is so far gone. It's just a legend now. The legend of the bulletproof townie that is rewarded for lynching his mates.

[Twilight Sparkle]

Okay, hito's "massclaim is fantastic" makes me want a massclaim less. I'll claim if it means we DON'T massclaim. This is bollocks. We're not massclaiming just for teh lulz.

I'm not advocating it for the "lulz".

Let's review:

Pros of massclaiming: more information, can direct PRs
Cons of massclaim: tells scum who to kill/RB

We have too many floaty, kinda-confirmed types. Let's get the confirms on the table. That'll give us a glut of confirmed townies that the scum can't all shoot at once. We get to have a town voting bloc by day and directed PR's by night. What is the penalty of massclaiming here? Are you seriously suggesting that scum are pining for want of good nk targets right now?

-hito

[hasdgfas]

THANK YOU SCUMCOW, FOR YOUR STUNNING CONTRIBUTION TO THE GAME.

[Andrius]

HITO.
The confirmed towns know who each other are. There's no point in massclaiming for them to out themselves. They have a reason for not coming forward and being all "oh im masonz here we are for the lulz".

The "floaty kinda-confirmed"s are mostly GENUINE town, minus SCUMCOW.

Yeah, a town voting bloc by day. Until tonight where some of them are BONED. Oh, and did I mention the whole "challenge" thing going on today? where, if we find a scumbag, we have to give up a townie to actually lynch the fucker? Seriously, if we can net a scumbag guaranteed I'll step out and volunteer my neck for the 1:1. But the massclaim BEFOREHAND is sheer lunacy.

They're not at a lack of NKs. But that doesn't mean we need to give them a laundry list of who's what and who knows what.

popsofctown's wall on Zdenek makes me want Zdenek dead even more. lol

Cow, just stop posting. You've already proven that you're less useful than shotty here.

[Shadow1psc]

In what world do scum get a daykill Andrius?

[Thor665]

Turns out, Seteal was reading and responding too eh?

Um, yeah, except if you read even his posts he's admitting to a communication breakdown, so...eh?

What do you mean by "she tried a bit"?

Exactly that. Lack of brilliant scumhunting is not a scumtell unless you want to try to prove that the player in question is capable of brilliant scumhunting. All you've done is outline that Bunnylover isn't the optimal quality scumhunter you would like as a town member. So...the scumtell exactly is what?

This is the scummiest post you've made to date. You wrote something incorrectly which caused a miscommunication. Rather than recognizing it as a miscommunication, you insist on trying to cast suspicion on me for it.

First off, you're debating my use of misrep vs. miscommunication - I submit the important part is "mis" but keep on trucking with that.
Second off, I'VE CALLED YOU TOWNISH FROM THE QT! Stop

misrepping

miscommunicating what I said.

There was no "befuddled silence"
*snip*
they didn't answer the question.

Um...whut? No, seriously, please read this and tell me you issue with me calling it 'befuddled silence' when you admit no one even *tried* to answer the question.

Both his post and mine were caused by a misunderstanding that wasn't cleared up until after both of us posted. What I find especially scummy is that now that the misunderstanding was cleared up in QT, he still is trying to cast suspicion on me for it.

This is a good one for Shadow to notice, because even Setael is calling it 'mis'something.
Me being scummy now is still a 'mis'something but that appears to be par for the course this game.

K, I was faking, you didn't send the scum kill.

I don't understand the rest of your question.

1.
2. Why did you quote (and an abbreviated quote at that) my snarky response?
2a. Why do you think Ben hopped on that as a good lead, and quoted it as well - but wasn't quoting you and instead was trying to showcase it as also his own personal thoughts?

Oh. Someone said "hypothetical cop" so. :/

That were me, so...dorf.

So all DGB has is receiving messages?
Other people have also received messages that they say are in a different form than DGBs?
I'm not really sold much by that.

I want to know what Setael did in the wedding QT that was so townie.

He felt honest, without doing explicit quotes I think it might be hard to sum up properly, but here's a brief rundown (try to ignore it when Seteal comes in screaming that I'm trying to make a scum case on him"

Thor: I don't want to lynch A because...sentence trails off as Thor fails at finishing thought
I don't want to lynch B because of these reasons.
I do want to lynch Setael.

Setael: Oi! Why do you want to not lynch A because of not wanting to lynch B, total asinine belief system!?!

Thor: Clarifies belief system

Setael: Oi! You posted that in thread, it's a misrep of what you said earlier.

Thor: No it isn't. Explains belief systema nd points out trailing sentence.

Setael: Ah...um...I sort of misunderstood that but here's why I thought you said what you said (offers a not unreasonable take - though I'll mock it post game, but hey) @Everybody else - did any of you read it that way, or am I off base?
----------------------------------

Really it was that last post - didn't feel like scum caught doing a misrep. Didn't feel like scum focused on shafting someone pressuring him. Felt honest. Town tell. He's on the low end of my town tells for the day, but I'd rather lynch someone other than him methinks.

[Thor665]

In what world do scum get a daykill Andrius?

Yar.

[Faraday]

DAY 4 VOTECOUNT 2.

Setael (2) Benmage, Zdenek
Hasdgfas (1) Andrius
Andrius (1) Magua

Not voting (12) Shadow1psc, Twilight Sparkle, Setael, DrippingGoofball, Popsofctown, Hasdgfas, Danakillsu, Thor665, Locke Lamora, Nexus, LynchMePls, Bunnylover

*With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
*Deadline is here
*Point out mistakes you see and you shall be rewarded with love. Such love.

[Andrius]

THIS WORLD, SHADOW: Mini 943: Greek Mythology. Scum_Hades (Me) shot Town_Poseidon (LC) during the day. Its not THAT uncommon, dude.

[Thor665]

"Special (Once): You may send in the name of one person. That person will then vanish beneath the Underworld for the next day and night phase. The person can not be targeted by ANY powers or specials and will be unable to speak in thread until he/she returns. It will be stated that the person died in thread. You can not target yourself. "

Was that really a Dayvig? What am I missing?

[Andrius]

Functionally, yes. They died. I got the counter. They just came back later on.
If you want a full goddamn search than file it with Cersei and I'll get right on it.

[Thor665]

I'm just saying - if your example of scum getting a Dayvig isn't an example of scum getting a Dayvig...wtf, dude?
Is it really that "common" I've never seen it happen.

[Andrius]

That was just the first instance that popped in my head- a major personal victory for me. lol

[Shadow1psc]

I'm just saying - if your example of scum getting a Dayvig isn't an example of scum getting a Dayvig...wtf, dude?
Is it really that "common" I've never seen it happen.

Ditto this. "Not that uncommon" is not "Once, as a role sorta like, but not really something that kills someone during the day." If you're gonna make an outlandish reach, you may as well have your evidence to support the attack. I've never seen a scum dayvig. This was also d1, so that rules out something like inventor or anything with a gunsmith type ability passing out a one time use dayvig, or anything of that nature.

[LimMePls]

I played in a game where an SK had a dayvig (Mad World Time Travel Mafia in my wiki), but I've never seen scum team with one. Andrius' "it's not all that uncommon, look here at this exmaple... ok that's not really an example, but there are lots so just accept that as known and move on" is ridiculous.

[popsofctown]

What's everyones favorite book from this series?

[Magua]

Yeah, a town voting bloc by day. Until tonight where some of them are BONED. Oh, and did I mention the whole "challenge" thing going on today? where, if we find a scumbag, we have to give up a townie to actually lynch the fucker? Seriously, if we can net a scumbag guaranteed I'll step out and volunteer my neck for the 1:1.

Read my plan. We are definitively getting our choice of persons lynched, and in addition to that, we either get a second lynch or a confirmed scum.

Andrius, clarify for me your thoughts about hasdgfas as scum.
- Scum can have a dayvig power. I can agree with this. It's not unheard of, and there was one in Last Will II Mafia.
- Scum who has dayvig power will announce it in thread. Shakier on this one. I see little motivation for scum to do this. Reaching back to Last Will II Mafia, we kept the day vig in reserve for more use as a vengeful kill / emergency PR silencer.
- Scum who has dayvig power will announce it in thread and will then shoot a lurking scummember when several people suggested other targets.

I guess my main problem here is, if you have Hasdgfas-scum who has already claimed to be a dayvig, why does he shoot Xtoxm instead of Raivann or Zoraster?

[LimMePls]

I guess my main problem here is, if you have Hasdgfas-scum who has already claimed to be a dayvig, why does he shoot Xtoxm instead of Raivann or Zoraster?

This is what doesn't make sense with the Hascow-scum conspiracy. You can't argue that the shot was taken for town cred when Raivann or Zoraster shots would have yielded the exact same town cred, or close enough, and without losing a team mate. This makes Hascow-Stark so incredibly unlikely that it's not worth considering at this stage of the game, since there are much more promising/likely scum leads. Especially when the shot killed a team power role. I just don't see scum willingly losing two of their PRs (presumably the 1-shot day vig + neighborizer) for the very little extra "town-cred" that the Xtoxm kill would bring in over other perfectly viable shots.

[popsofctown]

Yeah, a town voting bloc by day. Until tonight where some of them are BONED. Oh, and did I mention the whole "challenge" thing going on today? where, if we find a scumbag, we have to give up a townie to actually lynch the fucker? Seriously, if we can net a scumbag guaranteed I'll step out and volunteer my neck for the 1:1.

Read my plan. We are definitively getting our choice of persons lynched, and in addition to that, we either get a second lynch or a confirmed scum.

Andrius, clarify for me your thoughts about hasdgfas as scum.
- Scum can have a dayvig power. I can agree with this. It's not unheard of, and there was one in Last Will II Mafia.
- Scum who has dayvig power will announce it in thread. Shakier on this one. I see little motivation for scum to do this. Reaching back to Last Will II Mafia, we kept the day vig in reserve for more use as a vengeful kill / emergency PR silencer.
- Scum who has dayvig power will announce it in thread and will then shoot a lurking scummember when several people suggested other targets.

I guess my main problem here is, if you have Hasdgfas-scum who has already claimed to be a dayvig, why does he shoot Xtoxm instead of Raivann or Zoraster?

for EPIC TOWN CRED

Everyone is ignoring my question.
You're all dodgy scumbags

[Twilight Sparkle]

Hang on, the jury is out on massclaiming. This pony personally thinks we should wait until tomorrow, but hito is trying to sway me on AIM toward it.

Anyway:

Town

LMP
Cow (the scum dayvig case is utterly ridiculous--if I had such a thankless posting restriction, I'd probably be coasting a bit as well)
Shadow
Locke
Benmage
Andrius
Nexus

I'd rather not elaborate on all these reads, but I can write a paragraph on why each of these people is very unlikely to be Stark, if someone pushes me.

Lol-obvSK

(both because of Nexus' roleblock and because of his horribad)
Zdenek

The Rest

(3/7 scum?)
Magua
danakillsu
popsofctown
Bunnylover
DGB
Thor
Setael

I made a big case on Thor in the wedding QT (although much of it hinged on his being Raivann's buddy), because some of his stances and contradictions this game, but now that it's almost certainly one scumteam, I'm worried the connections might not fit. So today I'm going to go into fullblown Wall Post Mode. My plan is to reread diddin/MoI/Xtoxm in search of connections, and then look at each of these seven players as objectively and in as much detail as possible. We will cast our vote for one of them afterward.

~Mina

[Twilight Sparkle]

pops: my favourite book is

A Storm of Swords

.

Now I have a question for you.

Who do you think is scum, other than Zdenek?

No, seriously.

Every single one of your opinions this game, since you've replaced in, can be summarized as:

1) OMG, Feysal is SOOOOOO obvtown!11!!! I'm telling you this after he was already lynched just so you can all marvel at my townie frustration and scumhunting prowess, even though I won't tell you WHY he was obvtown. You guys are all idiots for lynching him.

2) I haven't reread anything, but judging from the last page, Zdenek is TOTALLY lying about his role! Let me devote posts and posts to debunking his claim, because he's the SK!

3)

OKs although I am clearly not capable of conceding the last word on zdenek, the lynch hasn't been practical for a while, I've just been arguing. unvote, vote Nexus for now. I read all his really scummy stuff earlier, I can't remember what it was though. But 90% of what Magua says makes bunches of sense so I'm just gonna proxy my vote at him.

(Never mind that were it not for GreyICE's vitriolic interactions with MoI, that one quote alone would be enough to earn my vote--particularly considering that's your only suspect other than Zdenek you've mentioned all game, aside from hopping on the Raivann wagon after the wedding.)

The rest is all theory/set-up discussion.

At the time, I'd thought your arguments against Zdenek were extremely weak, but now that Zdenek is almost certainly the SK, props on nailing him. But, um, do you have any thoughts on who's

Mafia

?

Also, whatever happened to this:

This isn't my catchup post, my catchup post will have the puddle of text I'm keeping in notepad, and will come after I finish my reread. Which I need to finish in a week. Lovely.

So, where's your catch-up post? It doesn't even need to be a wall like Andrius'. At the very least, how about a list of reads on every player in the game?

Thor, why did you tell Andrius he "owed us better" for his catch-up post, but not comment on pops' slow start to the game?

~Mina

[Twilight Sparkle]

(That said, I agree with pops' arguments against Zdenek--and I meant to say "Zdenek's horribad reactions to the one death this morning" in my first post. But at this point, it's very off that he has lots and lots to say about a likely SK who's being roleblocked every night to death, but has provided no other suspects.)

~Mina

[Twilight Sparkle]

Okay, I can't quote the exact AIM log, but here is my case for massclaim in a nutshell: unless the scum are absolutely moronic, they'll be able to shoot PRs the next two nights. Our PRs are just too obvious. SO, with that being true, massclaim is basically "lets confirm a bunch of townies for free." What do scum get out of this? A slightly smarter RB, if they have one. What do we get? A giant confirmed bloc to start cutting through this game, and coordinated PR's. Who wants to tell me that bargain favors scum?

-hito

[Twilight Sparkle]

A counterpoint:

There was no Stark kill on N1 (unless they targeted chesskid for the lulz). Raivann flipped town. Unless the scum inexplicably tried to take out Zdenek, there is a doctor/protector role out there. As long as he's able to, scum are forced to make suboptimal kills and avoid targeting obvtown/confirmed players. I see no reason not to wait until D5 to massclaim (unless it's to give scum less time to plan).

But I'll save the rest of the bickering for AIM, because everyone hates schizophrenic hydras.

~Mina