Newbie 1067 - Game over - Town Win!

[jasonT1981]

Day 2 vote count 2

Dysorder 1- Kdcaspot
Kdcaspot 1 - Nacho
Les 1 - inspiratieloos

Not voting

Mist
Dysorder
Les
PeRrY

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch

Nacho has picked up his prod but has not responded, replacement will now be looked for.

[jasonT1981]

Uncle Pain replaces Nacho, thank you.

[Uncle Pain]

Ok guys, let’s get some fresh air into the game.

I’ve skimmed through the 17 pages (quite a long Day 1 if you ask me) and must say that my opinion is mainly directed against Kcdaspot.

As much as I don’t like Hazard’s attitude about lynching Les Guilelesser (I prefer ignoring lunatic townies over lynching them), Hazard didn’t strike me particularly scummy the whole day. The fact that he didn’t defend himself in the end was rather a newbie tell than a scum tell in my picture. I don’t understand why he was lynched. And so my attention is caught by the ones on his bandwagon: Kcdaspot, inspiratieloos, dysorder, PeRrY-_-, Les Guilelesser.

Kcdaspot, who started the bandwagon, voted him because of vote hopping and because of Hazard’s statement that lynching Les Guilelesser would help town.

Taken for itself, I wouldn’t have thought much about it. I don’t find this case waterproof but well, it was okay for pressurizing. Still, THREE people stepped in and acknowledged the same reasoning. And then Les Guilelesser finally hammered him. Erm?!

VOTE: Kcdaspot
You were very eager to get Hazard with a Glove lynched. Considering the weak case, I don’t like this at all.

FoS: Les Guilelesser

Putting the language barrier aside, your actions are strange and don’t help town very much; the latest rolefishing attempt is just the icing. Plus I can’t get rid of the feeling that Kcdaspot tries to protect you, displaying you as a crazy character who is truly innocent. This outright stinks of friendliness. If I had two votes, the second would be on you.

[inspiratieloos]

Should have threatened those two ages ago...

Mist: null-town, overall she has been playing a pro-town game, with some random things that were scummy, apparently she is known to always do that. She stated that she would never hammer Hazard even though at that point she could have easily defended it if she hammered him near deadline. The paranoid part of me notes that she could have been coaching scumbuddy Les to hammer Hazard, with the way he followed her 'joke reasoning' exactly. (with her facepalming while reading it)

Dysorder: null-town, he isn't doing much scumhunting, but there isn't really any scum play on his part. On the other hand that isn't really necessary with all the distractions by others.

Les: prob-scum He has been playing almost completely passively for most of D1, then he hammers Hazard especially since Mist and I were joking around about how idiotic that would be. There is not a single thought process I can think of leading to a town player to do something like that in the same situation. Les's stupidity is a lie, lynch all liars.

Kcda: null/null-scum, my gut says town, but he did lead a bandwagon on a townie and Zach got NK'd. Also he has now said that he wants to vote Les twice and both times he isn't doing it. Scumbuddy? I should probably put him more in my scum-list, but I have that gut feeling that he's town...

Perry: null-town, he actually posted some reads, that would've been useful D1. He is a bit annoying with the constant excuses, but when he does posts something else it's usually decent. noob-town I think.

Nacho: He read town to me, but now he is inactive, I'll see what the replacement does.

Apart from Les I don't have any very good scum-reads, apart from Nacho I don't have any good town-reads, most people could go either way.

[inspiratieloos]

EBWOP: Welcome Uncle Pain. Hopefully we'll get some new things to go on now.

I took a look at your account, is this your first game in a while?

[Uncle Pain]

Yes, I began playing in 2008 and stopped in 2009 due to too little time. I’ve just recently thought about restarting… and I thought that participating in a newbie game would be a good start.

[Mist7676]

Are you IC status? Also I'll be doing my reads in a while let me go through some facts buzzing around in my head.

[jasonT1981]

Yes, UC is an IC

[Mist7676]

Kay just checking

[Kcdaspot]

how was it weak?

he had no response, none.

and it was a very valid argument..

meh.

how do you feel about dysorder?

[dysorder]

Sorry about my non-showing guys, I've been checking in and reading but haven't had much time to post up much of anything.

Reads... I'll give it a shot. Excuse the brevity of them.

Nacho/the new Uncle Pain: Uncle, sorry to say, but I had a scum read on your former player. His vote hopping and avoidance of latter D1 discussion about it set off my (albeit new) scum sense. D2, and fresh off my inquisitive post regarding Kcda, he fires off a vote directly to Kcda without much of a point or reasoning behind it either. Not to mention he just promptly disappears, but that is a discussion for another day, another time. Maybe you might change my mind, sir Pain.

Kcdaspot: Rightly or wrongly, I still feel a town read here. He did have some valid points revolving around Hazard, and you really can't do much else when your subject of vote is barely playing or contributing in any way/shape/form. I'd still like for him to actually respond to a bit of my posts. Thinking about his actions in the last few hours of D1, though. Did an awful lot of posting back then, something I need to go over later.

Inspiratieloos: Fairly town, has been playing the game well and pretty clean. Maybe that's to throw us off the trail, but so far, town.

Perry: Well, not that there's been much to work with, but I'm still gut feeling town on him. He's done his best given his limited posting abilities, I guess, and whilst not helpful to town to have such restrictions, is still looking fairly town.

Mist: Null-town/crazy. Sorry kiddo, but you kinda do give off the crazy vibe. I'm taking other peoples' word that this is your play/posting style. Seems town one minute, and then puts up something slight scum the next. Possibly could be pulling off a good scum game, not sure.

Les: Christ, where to begin. The style just keeps giving different tells... One minute he seems to be a victim of language barriers and play styles, and the next he just looks obvious scum. I'd say null at the moment because there hasn't been much action from him in D2, bar posting updated reads based on a couple of sentences from Mist.

[Uncle Pain]

Mist7676: Please don’t expect too much from me, this is my first time being IC. The things I

can

mention though:
• If we have a doctor: stay low. It serves no pro-town purpose to out yourself. Play the usual townie game, don’t get lynched, think wisely about who to protect (imagine who you would kill if you were mafia).
• If we have a cop: if you can clear/accuse someone today, go forward and do it – this is valuable information. If you can’t, stay low.
• In any case: my experience tells me that Day 2 should be carried out a bit more carefully than Day 1, i.e. the choice who to lynch should be (more) well-founded. If we mislynch today, Day 3 will be LYLO (=Lynch-or-lose), the decisive point for town, meaning that then we either lynch scum or we lose immediately – something the town should obviously avoid as much as possible.

Kcdaspot: Your point was indeed valid and I found it okay to put pressure on Hazard with a Glove. But in my book, it was no clear scum tell, so the fact that the bandwagon gained a lot of momentum should have made you think about the consequences. Especially later, you gave me the impression that you approved of the lynch regardless of the actual scumminess of Hazard with a Glove. And this in turn looks damn scummy to me.
My feeling about dysorder are a mixed bag. He accused my predecessor Nachomamma8 of vote hopping although he only switch his vote once (from Les Guilelesser to Kcdaspot in #202) and even gave a reason for this, so this case is somewhat flawed. dysorder himself switched his vote, too (from Les Guilelesser to Hazard with a Glove in #305), which basically means he suspected Les Guilelesser all the time but under the time pressure he decided to go for the deadline bandwagon… how convenient. On the other hand, dysorder also wrote some good posts and I rank him quite high on the eager-to-hunt-scum list.

dysorder: You don’t have to apologize for suspecting my predecessor, this is your choice and yours alone and suspicions are the basis for getting reads. As far as I saw his posts, he is quite busy with other games (Marathon especially) and probably dropped out here because it became too much for him. Not the nicest thing to do but I wouldn’t read anything into that.

I’ll provide you with a more detailled analysis by tomorrow morning, today will be very busy for me.

[dysorder]

Pain: Nope. Nacho went from me at first (which I'll be fair and place on a RVS pile, it was his first vote) to Hazard in #62, to Les at #89, to Perry at #102 and to Kcdaspot, finally, at #202.

The sudden unvoting of Les at L-1 could be viewed either way; maybe he was trying to save his buddy, or maybe he did feel there was more info to be given out from Les. Personally, I don't think much more actually changed with Les. I think he might have acted even more strange, but there were some fair town vibes coming off at that stage, but Nacho never really pursued that. Just pulled out a couple of quotes and said "here, Les is town, let's move on" at #158.

You may be right about his playing elsewhere, but unfortunately I can only go off what I see here.

[inspiratieloos]

kcda: The original case was weak, the thing that made it credible was Hazards response when he was already at L-1

[jasonT1981]

Les has asked for a replacement. I am currently have one lined up just awaiting confirmation from him.

[jasonT1981]

GMan replaces Les

[GMan]

Hello guys! I'll be spending the evening/tomorrow morning catching up. I'll try to stagger my catchup posts in a "stream of consciousness" by posting my thoughts as I go along before giving a run down of my reads. Bare with me!

[GMan]

Page 2

Nacho accuses dysorder for scum coasting but I don't buy it. Too early. Would feel an IC would be more understanding of a newbie finding his feet.

There's a line between newbiness and scumminess. Mist crosses this by suggesting a Cop claim. Any newb can read the rules and be smart enough to realise there may not be a cop. This is rolefishing. Buddying to Nacho is also present in her post.

As much as I didn't buy Nacho's suspicion of dysorder I don't like his reaction. I really don't like it when someone seems to be giving too many excuses. Now he's acting guarded.

Mist goes from wanting to follow Nacho to voting him because he has a cool head, i.e. experienced. Kcda overreacts to this, saying people are thirsty for IC blood when they were really jsut pointing out Nacho isn't auto-town.

Page 3

Mist proposes a policy lynch of an IC because he's an IC. What? And Perry AGREES? Next breath, inspira wants to go for a SE. Here's an idea guys: LYNCH SCUM NOT EXPERIENCE.

Getting the feeling Mist's desire for a cop claim is simply newbiness.

dysorder gives some reads, but there's not much good content there.

Why is everyone unvoting? Town is lazy. Pressure people!

Kcda says: "I'm saving reads until page 5." What? If you have reads share them. There is no townie motivation to wait at this point. Translation: "I need more time to make up some reads". He is intentionally witholding.

Perry avoids giving any content again. His play so far: Give no opinions, say as little as possible.

Page 4

Mist is a little trigger happy with her desire to lynch Les.

Perry stalls.

Page 5

dysorder says Les is more concerned with role reveals than death. To me, this is a town tell. Scum are afraid of death, not town. He questions Mist on her turnaround. I don't like how he points out how the wagon is flawed and then hops on it himself.

Perry stalls some more.

Perry posts content but he sits on the fence about Les.

[GMan]

Page 6

Entire page is filled of psots trying to understand Les.

Mist is too eager for a shrot day.

I like Nacho's efforts to look elsewhere while everyone else is focused on Les.

Page 7

Perry avoids giving his opinion. Except for saying that he'd vote Les, despite not wanting to. Who DO you want to vote for, buddy?

More excuses from Perry. No opinions.

Kcda wants someone else to hang today. Sets up a day 2 lynch of Les. This is scummy.

Don't like inspira's "If I were scum I'd do x and y."

Kcda changes his mind of Les once it seems the wagon is losing steam.

Dysorder reads too much into Nacho. Calling for caution to a wagon on newb/crazy is town is not a bad thing.

Page 8

Perry prefers WIFOM over opinions.

Perry finally gives opinions on a few players, but nothing too cutting. Spends another psot defending himself.

Page 9

Nacho changes his mind a lot.

kcda seizes on Hazard's desire to policy lynch.

Perry says only 1/3 of his posts are comptuer-related excuses. When did that become an acceptable margin?

[GMan]

Page 11

Dysorder's case on Nacho is weak imo.

Page 12

Kcda still pushing that Hazard lynch.

Perry accuses Hazard for lack of content. That's rich. Goes on to say he has no opinions.

Page 13

Kcda has stopped scum-hunting and is fully focused on pushing a deadline lynch of Hazard. Dysorder and perry hop on rather easily.

Page 14

What? Kcda finds Les's hammer scummy? This coming from the same guy who was desperate to see him lynched and asked for a hammer?

Page 15

kcda changes his mind on Les again.

[GMan]

If you were wondering why my notes on the last half dozen pages weren't as detailed it's because I was keeping up with the thread a little as I told Jason I'd be a stand-by replacement.

Anyway, reads.

Nacho/Uncle - leaning town. Don't see the vote hopping case. Looks like legitimate pressuring tactics to me.

Mist - leaning scum. Don't like how she played early on.

Inspira - town. Seems a voice of reason, actions appear to be town-motivated.

kcda - scum. Pushes mislynch after setting up a possible day 2 mislynch. More on this.

Dysorder - leaning slightly scum. Early play was spotty and contradictary in places. Seems to be getting more confident though I don't see his Nacho case. Undecided if he's legit scum hunting.

Perry - null. Hate his play. Fluff, fluff, promises of non-fluff, fluff. But I'm undecided between coasting/active lurking scum and lost townie

[Mist7676]

Welcome GMan!
Your predecsor was scum in my eyes so let us see how you do.

Welcome Uncle Pain.
Your predecsor was also scum in my eyes so let us see how you do.

I'm thinking in my opinion why would both scum replace out? Maybe because they knew town was catching on to them or they both just didn't want to play anymore. I think it is the latter.

Perry makes another excuse 'what a surprise!'

Dysorder has been doing pretty good and sits high on my town list. He seems newbish and is maybe trying his best. I cant see him pulling a tactic of making kcd look scum.

Zach dying is really weird and KCD's lynch subject being town is weirder. He could possibly be scum but Nacho (being an experianced IC) could have set this all up somehow. We cant just be playing right in scum's hands.

pushes misslynch after setting up a possible day 2 mislynch

where did KCD set up a day 2 mislynch?

Les was a crazy newbie that was leaning scum for me. He outted who he thought was the doctor. If he was really town he would have kept it to himself.

Inspire is the most town person I can see here. His actions are pro-town and everything he does has been helping the town. There is only that small detail of waiting for L-1 on Les to hammer. He might not have wanted the town to see him as jumping on the BW.

Seeing those summaries of the days u have tipped Les's scale GMan.

I'm sending Nacho's scale to the middle so I can see how his replacment does.
Reads:

Les/GMan - 50/50
Nacho/Uncle - 50/50
Dysorder - 10/90
Inspire - 20/80
KCD - 20/80
Perry - 40/60

[GMan]

Here's why I think kcda is scum.

1) His refusal to give reads until page five. The guy was restricting his scum-hunting as a strategy.

2) His approach to Les. He goes straight from his newbie read of him to suspicion. In his #113 post he felt strongly about Les' newbiness yet by #120 he's almost willing to put him at L-1. He's going with the flow. Acting like he's slowly changing his mind when it's already made up.

However, the wagon on Les starts to slow. All of a sudden, kcda is doubting himself and is going back to his prob-town read. Bu before his post is done he makes sure he sets up a day 2 lynch of Les, just in case.

3) The pushing of Hazard's lynch. It was a weak case to lynch somebody over and it was an easy wagon the town should be ashamed of. I don't know why kcda waits 3 pages from when Hazard made the comment about policy lynching Les to attack him for it. What happened between these two incidents? Well, it started before Hazard's post but continued after; kcda's growing desire to put Les at L-1.

The guy appears to steadily be more and more confident about putting Les at L-1 but steadily backs off and once again says Les' post style may be town and that he'd be a better day 2 lynch. Then he goes tooth and nail after Hazard for saying Les' removal may be beneficial to town even if he is so himself since it removes a distraction. Yep. Same guy who's trying to set up that day 2 lynch of Les despite mysteriously finding him town again.

And he begins to make good on it. Casting suspicion on Les for hammering Hazard. A hammer that was called for by kcda. A hammer that came after a Hazard post that explicitly stated no content was forthcoming. Come on man. You can't call for a hammer and then call that hammer scummy after the guy refuses to put up any kind of a fight.

VOTE: kcdaspot

[GMan]

Mist - here is the post where I feel kcda is setting up Les' day 2 lynch. It's like he's already taken note of Hazard's post and now needs to appear to back down from Les naturally so he can attack Hazard and find a reason to push a Les wagon the next day.

[jasonT1981]

Day 2 vote count 3

Kdcaspot 2 - Uncle Pain, GMan
Dysorder 1- Kdcaspot
GMan 1 - inspiratieloos

Not voting

Mist
Dysorder
PeRrY

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch