Twilight Sparkle wrote:What the hell is with your attitude?
I got town vibes from your immediately claiming VT, but you're acting more like trapped irritated scum than like town who knows the game is in the bag even if he gets lynched.
Asking your hydra to provide scum reads...I don't see any attitude there at all. WHy do you take it as rude/mean? Because I said you were outsourcing your vote...you were. I honestly don't get the annoyance at that.
I did have 'tude towards Andrius, but he'd had 'tude towards me as well so I sort of feel it's justified or at least along equal levels.
I'm perhaps annoyed because I've been getting scum vibes and dealing with 'confirm bias no case' from three masons for the better part of two days? I had a brilliant read and it was just wuss slapped back into my face - though I'm not attempting to be short that is perhaps what is giving you that vibe from me.
Your slot is a rather close second, iff you must know. All the ponies posting this game has seemed like it's about disagreeing with people, which is game related, but
sometimes you need to see someone no one else sees and make a case and be a townie
. I don't need a burden of proficiency fallacy to see something's wrong.
Okay, no. You are not going to get away with this.
Never mind that we made a case on Raivann (although lots of people suspected him), mini-cases on MoI and Thor, and called people like Magua on aspects of their play. (This isn't me trying to say, "Look how townie we are for scumhunting!" It's proving that you're talking out of your ass.)
My suspicion of your slot is a sort of protownness-per-word thing anyhow, so I don't see a problem with using a large, partial sample as long as it wasn't extracted with any bias. Which I don't see any, I stopped reading Day 2 because of LMP posting, not you.
I bet the silver dollar the ice cream machine gave me yesterday though, you disagree.
No one had looked sideways at Zdenek until we wrote that novel that spearheaded a wagon on him. How is that not "seeing something no one else sees and making a case"? Whether or not you agree with that case or think it was town-motivated, the simple fact that you missed something so ginormous means that you're either twisting the facts to prove a point, or you actually cheated and never really read the thread all that closely after replacing in.
I didn't cheat. Day 3 I said, "Day 2 is painful, I'm not reading any more of this." I was expecting hostile encouragement to plough forward, but it never came, so I never read that day. I make no claim to have read that day whatsoever.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt for about two minutes. Maybe you're just having trouble expressing yourself. So try it again. Why don't you give specific examples of quotes from Twilight Sparkle that you think were just us disagreeing with people rather than giving our own observations? Why don't you see what no one else sees in our play, be a townie, and make a case on us?
Technically, right now.
The entirety of iso seven consists of disagreeing and agreeing with other posters. Including disagreeing with MoI. As if that gets anyone anywhere.
Post 8 is nagging mikujin to play differently. You don't wait for him to do something scummy and then build a case when it happens even though you claim it's in your meta book, but instead you try to agitate into saying something stupid and put him on the defensive.
Post 16, TS devotes plenty of energy to telling MoI to change his posting style. MoI is like, old as the hills. Not gonna happen. But playstyle criticisms have a convenient characteristic of being abstract from the game itself, and as such make good "aggressive" posting material for scum no matter what.
I could keep going, but I don't have time. But that's the sort of thing I object too. Maybe asking questions is a playstyle difference, but my gut doesn't feel well about your slot's approach to the game.
pops, do you have your notes from catching up? The ones you said you were making in your first post of the game?
Spoiler: uneditted notes
post 301: Locke Lamora votes Mikujin for being scummy. I find the vote scummy because it's not going to lead anywhere, there's not much a defense of overapologizing for absence is going to do. It's something to note for later and mark against him, but day 1 is about getting to the bottom to things. He's neither using his vote to get mikujin lynched, because it's obviously weak on its own, nor using his vote to get information, because IMO that kind of point is indefensible. I think it's fakehunting.
DGB in general: I don't buy the "BREAK THE POST RESTRICTION" nonsense. It's patently obvious that no matter the severity of the penalty, it's not going to happen. DGB didn't think it through. Which makes me think I need to move it from the "DGB doing crazy stuff" pile to the "DGB pretending to do crazy stuff to fit her own meta" pile.
MagnaofIllusion wrote:This is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately [REDACTED] is not going to end before today ends to demonstrate why. Using a claimed Dayvig as a second lynch is going to result in a rushed Vig and a rushed deadline vote. When that happened Day 1 in Clash a Town Bulletproof got lynched at deadline over Scum.
Magua wrote:
MoI wrote:This is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately [REDACTED] is not going to end before today ends to demonstrate why. Using a claimed Dayvig as a second lynch is going to result in a rushed Vig and a rushed deadline vote. When that happened Day 1 in Clash a Town Bulletproof got lynched at deadline over Scum.
There were 9 scum in Clash of Kings. Shooting one would be nice, but hasdgfas simply shooting one does not help us *nearly* as much as seeing who wanted that person shot. Hasdgfas shooting town without any input is pretty much a complete waste of his ability and opportunity -- shooting town after being directed to gives us the information about who was on the "wagon".
I swear by my mother's grave, officer, I've never seen this discussion in my entire life!
DGB wrote:Feysal is town
This is so fail, and I don't know why this site still accepts play like this as the norm. Identifying obvtowns just gets them shot, and has no other benefit. Do you call them town to keep them from getting lynched? Why the heck can't you wait until they're on the chopping block then?
Page 38 is lulzy.
Ghostlin's attack on Bunnylover for demanding a nameclaim from LL makes me think that Ghostlin was hampered from following BL's train of thought by some modconfirmed info suggesting LL is town. Nameclaim was 100% legit, LL can't get lynch immunity for having a Lannister name pre-getting-namecopped, and then claim a different name later if he is namecopped as something different. That'd be having his cake and eating it too.
post 1059 is goodposting.
Never said there was much of them, though.
What are your reads? Why don't you sort players into Town, Neutral, and Scum, at the very least? Also, do you still suspect Nexus? I mean, since you said you'd found scummy stuff from her, although you couldn't remember what? Do you still want to lynch DGB for no other reason than to see if she's telling the truth about her hypocop?
See, exact kind of thing I'm talking about. These aggressive questions. If I'm scummy for not having presented any of these things, present it in a declarative sentence and put a vote with it. If I'm not, lose the edge when you're asking about them. You behave like you don't yet have the evidence to know I'm not on your team, but are ready to behave as such already, which could only be revealed to you by pm. It occurs to me again that this could be a playstyle thing, particularly after the reread you sparked revealed Mina's name at the bottom of the majority of several posts I'd lumped with the same avatar, but a meta read is gonna wait until you're in lynch crosshairs, it's a lot of work.
My reads atm are that zdenek is scum. You're a far away second, third and fourth are yonder still and you won't hear about them. I see no value in discussing townreads, or even scumreads that are rather low on the agenda because they just improve nightkills. If someone has a healthy wagon on them, I'll tell you everything you want to know about them, until then it's just telling scum who's mislynch fodder and who isn't. The only explanation I've heard for revealing townreads thus far in my mafia career is that you can "force scum to shoot your townreads", which sounds as ludicrous as telling your opponent where your Battleship is so he'll be forced to sink it in five straight pegs.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Apparently while I was writing Asteroids, this game became a marathon. You'll have to give me time to catch up.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Benmage wrote:Wasn't MoI very intrigued about overkill?
Who was it that suggested LMP could've been scum who sent the NK in?
Me.
"I value knowledge, logic, and deceit. I love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At my best, I am brilliant and progressive. At my worst, I am treacherous and cold."
Magua wrote:shot someone else who didn't die which should've been your first post today if true, or shot no one which *also* should've been your first post today if true
I'm not sure either of these statements are true. Why should I claim these things if it helps the scum to know the answers and doesn't help us?
Why would it help them but not us? Scum already know whether or not they shot xvart. Scum already know they didn't shoot Magna. We all know there's still the unexplained N1 diddin kill.
I don't see the "secret information" you're afraid of having scum have here.
Occam's Razor - LMP is simply the scum sending in the kills
"I value knowledge, logic, and deceit. I love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At my best, I am brilliant and progressive. At my worst, I am treacherous and cold."
@MOD – was the lack of specific kill flavor intentional?
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
caught up. looks like massclaim. Can i have last claim? I seem to be in good enough graces atm, id prefer everyone elses full reveal before mine
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
have all the actives posted their full night history?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Am I just imagining that Bunnylover asked about LMP sending the kill as well?
Shadow: do you have any abilities aside from table shuffling that it would help the town for you to claim?
pops: were you responsible for modconfirming yourself to DGB and Benmage? Preview edit: Never mind, you can wait on claiming it.
Magua: Setael still hasn't claimed. And LMP hasn't fullclaimed.
See, exact kind of thing I'm talking about. These aggressive questions. If I'm scummy for not having presented any of these things, present it in a declarative sentence and put a vote with it. If I'm not, lose the edge when you're asking about them. You behave like you don't yet have the evidence to know I'm not on your team, but are ready to behave as such already, which could only be revealed to you by pm. It occurs to me again that this could be a playstyle thing, particularly after the reread you sparked revealed Mina's name at the bottom of the majority of several posts I'd lumped with the same avatar, but a meta read is gonna wait until you're in lynch crosshairs, it's a lot of work.
I'm not going to get into a huge back-and-forth, since you've just been confirmed town, but I disagree with your suggested approach. When I'm town, I like to ask lots and lots of aggressive questions and pressure people on every single detail of their posts. If they're town, it'll shine through when I see more of their thought processes; if they're scum, they're more likely to slip up when forced to explain themselves.
However, I'm not so good at reaching the right conclusions with the information I draw, so I'm constantly analyzing and reevaluating. I don't see the game in black and white. I can't just go, "X has committed one minor scumtell, so I'm going to vote him and proceed to push his lynch." (Were I alone, the Zdenek case probably would have been a lot more indecisive and less of a formal case, for example.) I find it much more fruitful to force my suspect to justify himself and poke at everything that's out of place until it snowballs into something more.
Also, why didn't I make a declarative statement and vote you? Because although you were in my suspect pool, I wasn't actually all that convinced you were scum. One aspect of your play was scummy, but given GreyICE's interactions with MoI, you were less likely Stark. Hell, while I was writing that post, I realized you were almost certainly not a Stark based on your play. But I wanted to put some pressure on you and draw more content from your slot.
Oh, and I disagree with the philosophy that you should keep most of your reads hidden, because if your one top scum read is wrong, you give the town no information, but I'll leave that for another thread.
</theory rant>
(And also, if you only read the first half of the game, your suspicions make sense, because our play sucked donkey balls on D1 and part one of D2. :/)
I'm going to bed now. I don't even know if I should post my case on Thor (Benmage and Shadow have seen it) or do any connections analysis, simply because the game is so broken wide open. Good news: suspect pool has been narrowed to Thor, Setael, Zdenek, and maybe dana and Magua (since I strongly believe there's a SK).
By the way, something in favour of Setael being scum: MoI said that some of my interactions with Mikujin looked like "soft distancing." It's a classic move to link players to your scumbuddies before a flip (because if Miku flips scum, I look bad, but if I flip town, the distancing accusation evaporates).
~Mina
Twilight Sparkle is a majestic pony union of hitogoroshi, Mina, and Sotty7.
Strike that, Setael hasn't claimed. So, yeah. I'd prefer pops to claim now anyways, but that's just me. I'm impatient.
LMP claimed 1-shot vig D3. He hasn't nameclaimed, but considering that fakeclaims are given to scum, I don't think we'd learn anything based off of his name claim anyways.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Asking your hydra to provide scum reads...I don't see any attitude there at all. WHy do you take it as rude/mean? Because I said you were outsourcing your vote...you were. I honestly don't get the annoyance at that.
