Open 290 - Double Day (Game Over)

[Klazam]

Shush NS.
Shush your little mouth.

Nacho- you have to realize that you are stalling the game...

[Nachomamma8]

Anyways, grinding out the four reads.

Meransiel:
The thing that bothers me most about Meransiel is that the rest of his play makes absolutely no sense with his tunneling on Furc. He's reading like mafia who forgot to change their vote to sound convincing because he never really was that confident about it, didn't change when he started to doubt the read, and is communist and believes everyone needs their fair share of pressure.

And I am going to multipost this because I am playing marathon games. But I'm still posting!

[Twistedspoon]

meransiel is the easy target

next read

[Nachomamma8]

Meransiel is the scum.
Try again.

[Twistedspoon]

i'm not saying he isn't scum, i've said multiple times that I think he is

but he's certainly the obvious choice

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, then we'll burn that bridge when I have more time.

Vote: singersinger

[Klazam]

Why singer?

[Nobody Special]

Look for that answer in three more days.

[Furcolow]

when you say "tunneling on furc" you are indicating you find Meransiel to be scum and me to be town?

[Hiraki]

Right so Apoktolyptica is still my first choice.

PREZZURRR

[Stephoscope]

Vote Count

Meransiel - (4) bvoigt, Klazam, Twistedspoon, Furcolow
Nachomamma - (4) DrBokChoy, Apokalyptika, HackerHuck, Nobody Special
Apockalyptika- (3) Hiraki, Number58, Furcolow
Number58 - ConfidAnon
Furcolow - silverbullet999
ConfidAnon - singersigner
Hiraki - Pim
singersigner - nachomomma8

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
The current deadline is Monday, April 4th, 8PM EST.

Still working on replacements. I'll start pleading.

[singersigner]

Back; catching up; see you soon. <3

[Furcolow]

I'd like to see Confid/silver/singer/pim/nacho give reasoning for not being on the top wagons
Confid recently said he was "happy with his vote"
Nacho is "exploring other avenues" with singer, but wants to lynch Meransiel iirc unless he changed his mind
Singer apparently is the most inactive mafia player on the site when compared to the amount of games she is in
Silver has stopped tunneling on me, so I guess he might be ok to change his? idk

I'd like to see these people join the top 3 wagons
If we are wagonning outside of these top 3 I'd like to do it on Singer if she will not replace out

[singersigner]

Back; catching up; see you soon. <3

[Nachomamma8]

Why singer?

That was meant to be Prod: singer, but marathon weekend fucked me up a bit.

when you say "tunneling on furc" you are indicating you find Meransiel to be scum and me to be town?

For the moment, yes.

[Nachomamma8]

For the sake of completeness:

The general case against Meransiel has already been posted. Most of his posting just announce that he's here, and don't really push towards any protown goal. He also is willing to take mafia standpoints that sound good, but in no way reflect his play or how he's attempted to play.

That's a pretty good point. Plus, Number 58 is not here, so I guess we could always pressure him later.

Unvote

Vote: Furcolow

Okay, this is nice, but it was never followed up on. The only other mention of Number 58 that Meransiel makes is that he's "pretty much town" in his analysis post, but there's absolutely no reasoning as to how he reached this conclusion.

I was just pointing out the need to push people that don't post to post, and that said need can wait.

It can wait for how long, exactly? I haven't actually seen him make a push to make lurkers post all game.

his hmmmmmm also feels faked to me, because I feel as if IF he were town, he would actually vote without just unvoting. Simply unvoting feels like scum waiting to place a vote as opposed to actually fishing out suspicions which town should do.

That's a really weak point. A really ,

really

weak point.

not really
explain why you think so

Cause it is. A lot of people unvote and then sit on their votes, it is completely unrelated to their allignments. Also, this was the only point I had to debate because the others were good points, but it seemed a bit like you were trying to overmotivate and overexplain.

In short, I do believe the guy's kinda scummy, but I'm not getting town reads on you either.

Meransiel comes out looking terrible from this exchange. Acts like Furc's just provided terrible reasoning, is asks why, supports the initial point with weak reasoning and says that "every point thus far has been good except for the one you just made", and can't take a clear position between Furc and the unvoter even though he's voting Furc.For the sake of completeness:

The general case against Meransiel has already been posted. Most of his posting just announce that he's here, and don't really push towards any protown goal. He also is willing to take mafia standpoints that sound good, but in no way reflect his play or how he's attempted to play.

That's a pretty good point. Plus, Number 58 is not here, so I guess we could always pressure him later.

Unvote

Vote: Furcolow

Okay, this is nice, but it was never followed up on. The only other mention of Number 58 that Meransiel makes is that he's "pretty much town" in his analysis post, but there's absolutely no reasoning as to how he reached this conclusion.

I was just pointing out the need to push people that don't post to post, and that said need can wait.

It can wait for how long, exactly? I haven't actually seen him make a push to make lurkers post all game.

his hmmmmmm also feels faked to me, because I feel as if IF he were town, he would actually vote without just unvoting. Simply unvoting feels like scum waiting to place a vote as opposed to actually fishing out suspicions which town should do.

That's a really weak point. A really ,

really

weak point.

not really
explain why you think so

Cause it is. A lot of people unvote and then sit on their votes, it is completely unrelated to their allignments. Also, this was the only point I had to debate because the others were good points, but it seemed a bit like you were trying to overmotivate and overexplain.

In short, I do believe the guy's kinda scummy, but I'm not getting town reads on you either.

Meransiel comes out looking terrible from this exchange. Acts like Furc's just provided terrible reasoning, is asks why, supports the initial point with weak reasoning and says that "every point thus far has been good except for the one you just made", and can't take a clear position between Furc and the unvoter even though he's voting Furc.

Just surprised is all. I mean, everybody needs pressure, if a wagon is already half-started, why abandon it and go for someone new?

Not a bad strategy, no, just unexpected.

Put any questions, point to anything I've said and done that looked scummy, and I'll gladly answer.

This was his response to being questioned on his little "Me? I guess I could use some pressure... comment."
He's overreacting to being voted a lot. The "bring everything scummy you find against me and I'll gladly answer" seems to be caring far more about the wagon on him than whether scum's voting him or not. You'd think he'd be less OK with this wagon forming on him when it was formed by his PRIME suspect, but apparently not.

@silver's justification: Seems clean and to the point. While I'm not really sure it stands, it does make silver look pretty pro-town to me.

Now, the Confid case is something else. Insisting on voting somebody due to a role restriction that says NOTHING about alignment, and that I would see more likely applied to a town than a mafia, is stupid to say the least. And very anti-town.

@TS: I have already explained why that was NOT strawmanning. If you're too lazy to look it up, here and here. You jump too easily on wagons. As such, I'm getting a slight scum read on you.

@Hiraki and singersigner: I actually have a problem reading this two chaps. They both have a...way of posting, that I don't know whether I should attribute to personality or alignment. Hiraki is being overprotective of himself, immediately questioning everyone that shows even the sightliest suspicion of him. Short fuse, scumminess, I have no idea. Singer, at the other pole, seems very clean and logical in absolutely everything that he says, I I honestly can't tell if that's just him being himself or him posting very carefully to cover up slips.

My reads so far:

Twistedspoon - neutral, leaning town
Hiraki - town, leaning scum (yeah, I know it sounds weird)
Signer - town, leaning...I have no idea
silver - town
fur - neutral, leaning scum (yes, my suspicion of you has reduced)
confid - scum, leaning neutral
Nobody Special - I have no idea
bvoigt - town, leaning neutral
Number58 - pretty much town
Nacho - town
Pim - no idea
boberz - is he even playing?

Two things wrong with this post.
Reads are nothing without votes. He now finds confid scummier than Furc. Where is his vote?

The way he's treated me is also scummy. He's flopped between town, scum, useless, confused. He seems to just follow the grain on what people say about me.

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry, Twisted. Had to warm up my case-writing hands

[Furcolow]

I am curious as to where the votes on Confid went... they left the game with Singer apparently

[Apokalyptika]

Why are you still voting singer and not Meransiel, if he's so scummy?

[Furcolow]

Singer's RVS vote is better than about half the votes out there, actually

[Nachomamma8]

Why are you still voting singer and not Meransiel, if he's so scummy?

Haven't looked into singersinger yet. Waiting for her catchup post.

[Furcolow]

havent looked into singer, but you are voting singer, vote meransiel.

[Stephoscope]

pod person replaces DrBokchoy. Thanks!!

[Meransiel]

Hey, nacho, expected that.

'bout furc: Here, you're basically accusing me of lying. So I can't exactly contradict you, cause you will just say I'm lying again
'bout being overconcerned for being voted: I know I expressed it in a way that looks bad, but I was more curious of the reason he changed his vote than anything else.
'bout my reads on you and how they follow the crowd: Didn't say you're scum. Ever. Started out from town because I just forgot this is mountainous (lol), and then had nothing to say after I was reminded this is roleless. And you know what I said about you after I had nothing to say? Yeah, nothing.
'bout that list: Some of them were gut, and I couldn't just say that. Also, I wanted something to encompass everyone, and as such, I tried to encompass everyone. Didn't give a lot of reasoning for it because constructing cases on everyone isn't really helpful (or possible, or credible). Whatever

Aanyway...

unvote

, being that it was going nowhere anyway.

[Twistedspoon]

Sorry, Twisted. Had to warm up my case-writing hands

alright, as long as we hear the 3 other reads and conclusions



and welcome, pod person