The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Greymarble]

Well this is quite silly. RayFrost gets +10 misrep points. I was wrong about US/UT, yes. I fucked up. Not all my reads are perfect.

Not all of them are bad.

Hashing things out in the QT is fine. But what I wanted to see is what's getting hashed out in the QT. Here's a few examples:

My personal read is that YosFlavouredCayke is scum for, basically, stroking Pathetric; to me, it reads like grooming a potential ally, and town have no business doing that. AGar, on the other hand, feels that YosFlavouredCayke has been logical in the way that town are logical, and scum will miss logical steps as they try to push mislynches. I don't know what RayFrost thinks yet. I'm in the process of rereading, so we'll see how this gets resolved and get back to you lovely folk.

We're in agreement regarding Frogito Ergo Sum and Untrod Stranger in that they're null-leaning-scum. Iso reveals nothing impressive coming from Frogito Ergo Sum aside from early bandwagoning and whatnot. I dislike the early spectating behavior when it was Ether vs. singersigner as well as the weirdly-worded L-1 warning. AGar wants to vote, but I want to hold back until I've done this reread.

Final Destination was talking about Untrod Stranger, not YosFlavouredCayke. This is a terrible twist. In fact, here's the link to Final Destination's post, which conveniently quotes a post about Untrod Stranger. Note the full first paragraph there.

We're happy we got a wagon on BeaverWeasel (which we're now defecting) but uncomfortable with YosFlavouredCayke shooting down Final Destination's case against Frogito Ergo Sum.

AGar also expresses his displeasure at your response in post 377. You know my feelings on the matter, but here's his: Your response was not satisfactory, and instead looks and feels ugly as a backpedal.

Speaking from a group perspective: We're in much more agreement regarding town reads than scum reads right now. There's some disagreement about YosFlavouredCayke, and I don't think I'll last very long in the QuickTopic once I've pulled this particular stunt (see below). AGar still likes having Frogito Ergo Sum's collective neck in a knot. I don't think RayFrost has changed his stance on YosFlavouredCayke since Green Shirt Thursday, but I haven't heard him say anything about them since. Personally, I'm undecided(!) on who's scum because I have yet to do the player-by-player analyses that I've been meaning to do since last week. I'll spend a few hours on those before I go poof for the week.

I am unhappy to say that I am immensely displeased with the quality of logic shown in this posts. Llamarble would like to make it known from the quick topic that he's quite convinced that you're scum. I have not shut the door on an FES case, and still believe him to be scum, so endorse people voting for him as good posting. I would also like to say that Super Vanilla Townie has not contributed sufficeint verbiage to the thread to earn him six brownie points or the gold star, and his dayvig of Vi was uncalled for.

@Rayfrost: What you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you ever close to anything that could have been considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you zero town points, and may mod have mercy on your soul.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Is there a reason you're avoiding the question of why you thought Lord Fonzi was scum, there, Greymarble? Do I have to look for you in a dark alley and beat it out of you? I'm getting irritated that this is the

fifth

time I've had to ask, and this isn't the sort of thing you need to discuss in a QuickTopic; I'm asking for reasoning you made in the past, not for new reasoning.

If you want to know why I'm insisting on the answer to this question, I'll tell you now: You dropped a "I have a gut read on Lord Fonzi, lemme see why" before the whole mess with RayFrost, and then you called us scum for some BS slip. Only then did you say, "AHA! Lord Fonzi is scum via Balam-scum! Yes!" I'd like to know you weren't bullshitting with your initial "gut read" there.

As for 575, I don't know what else I can tell you. That's our logic, that's how we came to our conclusions, and we stand by them. Disagree with that logic all you want. We're not scum.

[Balam]

Well this is quite silly. RayFrost gets +10 misrep points. I was wrong about US/UT, yes. I fucked up. Not all my reads are perfect.

So it's

not

scummy to make mistakes? Huh. Who'd have thunk it.

Rest of it can be summarized.

Greymarble: "I want to see what you guys are thinking and talking about in the QT" *quotes posts that show this* "I don't like the logic, so you're still scum"

How does this invalidate the fact

we've posted our thoughts

, which is what you said we weren't doing? Key thing here is the fact you quote a few posts showing where we are.

GreyMarble: "RayFrost, you said a bunch of stuff that I'm going to insult you over rather than replying to."

Nice ad-hom.

[Greymarble]

No, you've posted that you have OPINIONS. Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one, and they're full of shit.

I want the logic behind the opinions. I probed for it, and the displayed logic was LAUGHABLE. For a QT that produces a whole lot of opinions, it sure seems short on reasoning.

As for RayFrost, I wasn't interested in debating meta then, I ain't now. The rest was just random insults and scumplaints.

SVT gave more reasons and logic in one post than you have all game.

Fonzi I honestly haven't figured out. I'd use the gut read cop out, but my first game on site after watching Nikanor lynch two scum using logic and nearly two town with gut, I swore never to use that cop out. And I haven't figured out what reads scum to me. When I do, I'll say.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Fonzi I honestly haven't figured out. I'd use the gut read cop out, but my first game on site after watching Nikanor lynch two scum using logic and nearly two town with gut, I swore never to use that cop out. And I haven't figured out what reads scum to me. When I do, I'll say.

Fair enough.

Unvote, Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu

I'll say, though, that you shouldn't ignore your gut. Yes, there will be times when your gut is wrong but your logic is right, but I've seen it go the other way around, too. Use everything that's there and come to a decision. I don't think you needed me to tell you that.

I want the logic behind the opinions. I probed for it, and the displayed logic was LAUGHABLE. For a QT that produces a whole lot of opinions, it sure seems short on reasoning.

:headdesk:

[Balam]

As for RayFrost, I wasn't interested in debating meta then, I ain't now. The rest was just random insults and scumplaints.

> I wasn't interested in debating meta.

That's why you brought up meta in the first (two) places, right?

> The rest was just random insults and scumplaints

Again, completely dismissing the post without even attempting to seem like you aren't. For the record, you are the one who's been insulting (It's been... three / four times now you've insulted my intelligence. I know at least twice). Dismissing things as "scumplaints" is a really, really,

really

easy way to avoid having to ever reply to anything. "ur scum so it's a scumplaint"

Fonzi I honestly haven't figured out. I'd use the gut read cop out, but my first game on site after watching Nikanor lynch two scum using logic and nearly two town with gut, I swore never to use that cop out. And I haven't figured out what reads scum to me. When I do, I'll say.

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Be back in a bit.

Copper votes are right up the Bretheran's alley. You may consider that name nominated as soon as the thread unlocks

Just going to leave this here.

Now going to cease to reply to the GreyMarble postings towards us because of the fact they clearly have their heads up their arses. Equinox happens to agree with me on this one.

[Greymarble]

Llamarble thinks DaSpot is town, and I happen to agree with him on this.

FOS:

Equinox for disagreeing with Llamarble's logic.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

FOS: Equinox for disagreeing with Llamarble's logic.

This is mind-numbingly stupid.

[GummyBear]

We apologize profusely for taking forever to post again. :/ Real life sucks.

YFC’s 413 is not good. You continue to insist that your obvtown read on Pathetric should’ve been agreed upon by everyone, which is nonsensical at best. Due to the simple fact that not everyone (I don’t remember how many it was, but I don’t think there were very many) agreed with that read, you should know that it’s clearly not obvious. As to your second point: You thought she was obvtown. What better reason is there for scum to kill someone?

YFC’s 418 confuses me further. She thought about possible motivations for the kill, but doesn’t understand that obvtownieness is the most basic of reasons to NK someone? It feels like she’s doing a little bit of pseudo-scumhunting to get people off her back for not scumhunting. (“Speaking of scumhunting…”)

I do like YFC’s posts on page 18, for the record.

Welcome to the game, SVT. Hope you’ve a ladder to get out of the hole BW dug for you.

Fez 450: How can UB be a strong townread for many players and an easy target at the same time? That’s a pretty blatant contradiction.

As to Lord Fonzi's 458 (as well as all future posts agreeing with him), I know that Singer addressed this already, but I am going to calmly point out that it really pisses me off when people accuse me of lurking on purpose, or to achieve an end. I believe that lurking on purpose is against the spirit of the game. I apologize that this semester has been far busier than I anticipated, but that does not excuse you from making what I consider to be an insult to my integrity as a player. I would like to make it clear that I appreciate your reasoning, and see the logic, but I can assure you, lurking will NEVER be a tell of any kind on me or any hydra I am part of.

UB’s 468 presents decentish points on Copper. However, I find Copperscum unlikely. Additionally, a vote which is essentially based on the fact that one post is too long? No bueno. However, the contribution from UB is much appreciated; it’s been a very long time coming.

Grey’ s 560 makes me want GreyICE to play in this hydra all the time. You’re a better player when you’re calm. Your case on Balam is unique and seems solid to me. I’ll have to look into their ISO to see if I agree, but the post itself is good.

Balam’s responses are measured and logical. My townread on them stays put. I definitely see Balam vs. Greymarble as town vs. town.

To be quite honest, reading the past 8 or so pages has changed my reads essentially NOT AT ALL. SVT needs to give us something of substance; what he’s put up so far is crap.

Our vote stays (

revote: SuperVanillaTownie

), and my scumreads are still BW, Fez, and YFC. Additionally, my townreads are still FD, Grey, and UB, but you can go ahead and add Balam and Copper to that.

Just as a note on the frequency of our V/LAs: we’ve had a lot of traveling happening lately. We apologize again for the inconvenience. At this point, however, our V/LAs should be non-existent from here on out.

[Lord Fonzi]

So...what? Are you going to explain why you were opposed to a beaver lynch at the moment you attacked me for voting for him

cause he was getting replaced and that was a terri-bad vote. AND YOU KNOW IT.

A scummy player who is getting replaced is still a scummy player. The case on them was not purely lurking from what I can make out.

That said, YosC, can you please give your read on Gummybear? Because to me, they're a scummy-looking lurker to whom your lack of attention is quite glaring. They pop up every so often to make a petrifyingly dull wall post, with little new insight, then defend themselves with misleading statements (ie the ISO thing. As we noted before, of course lurk, lurk, wall looks less bad in ISO than in context. All you have in the ISO is wall, wall, wall). If you're perpetually catching up, you're pretty much never going to be proactive.

I
<Note: the quoted refers to YosCayke>
ISO 6 and 7
With convincing arguments like "Let's ride this wagon and see where it goes." and "Voting for Ether here, seriously? Man, you guys are so scum.", YFC starts out scummy by voting for now obvtown FD.

Are you saying that FD is obvtown RIGHT NOW, or was 'obvtown by now' at the time of the quoted?

ISO 39
Defends FES hard again, this time without any reasons. "THE CASE AGAINST FES IS TERRIBLE" is about all they have to say. Many others did not agree.

What is scummy about this? Independence of thought is a protown sign.

(Equinox)

First off, Kcdaspot. I believe what Greymarble mentioned about Kcdaspot's nervous meta was also RayFrost's "secret meta tell" that he wouldn't tell me. However, he has recently indicated that danakillsu hasn't made appearances in their QuickTopic, and it's difficult to defer to people when they're not there. His posts defending BeaverWeasel are awful, awful like scum white-knighting and not town white-knighting.

Explain the difference.

As to Lord Fonzi's 458 (as well as all future posts agreeing with him), I know that Singer addressed this already, but I am going to calmly point out that it really pisses me off when people accuse me of lurking on purpose, or to achieve an end. I believe that lurking on purpose is against the spirit of the game. I apologize that this semester has been far busier than I anticipated, but that does not excuse you from making what I consider to be an insult to my integrity as a player. I would like to make it clear that I appreciate your reasoning, and see the logic, but I can assure you, lurking will NEVER be a tell of any kind on me or any hydra I am part of.

Feel insulted then. I honestly don't give a shit, you're a lurker, and the rest just reads like AtE. Trying to make out like we're personally insulting you for simply pointing out that you are playing in a manner that makes all the sense in the world for scum, but is of little use to town.

[Frogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote, vote: Spot

[Balam]

(AGar)

Ugh...

(Equinox)

First off, Kcdaspot. I believe what Greymarble mentioned about Kcdaspot's nervous meta was also RayFrost's "secret meta tell" that he wouldn't tell me. However, he has recently indicated that danakillsu hasn't made appearances in their QuickTopic, and it's difficult to defer to people when they're not there. His posts defending BeaverWeasel are awful, awful like scum white-knighting and not town white-knighting.

Explain the difference.

For my examples, player X is the "white-knight" and player Y is the "lynch-bait."

Town white-knighting generally finds Player X defending a town-read on Player Y, using logical cases, thoughtprocesses and generally a line of thinking that you can follow from point A to point B fluently without questioning where a certain point came from or how they jumped across a logical gap the size of Nevada.

Scum white-knighting is generally characterized by Player X providing a defense of Player Y that is generally weak in it's logical patterns, and the stretch from Point A to Point B is often filled with gaps and chasms, and one questions where they came up with such ideas.

Kcdaspot, operating solo at this point I've gathered, has pulled a strange "BW wasn't lurking!" card out of thin air here in an order to preserve the SVT slot. The argument to me rings similar to the "It's not OMGUS if you put a reason in there!" argument - it's a semantics argument. I'm tending to lean with a DSTKU-scum read here based on the fact that they are white-knighting a player via a strange twist of semantics and with the knowledge that DKU is generally absent from the hydra at this point in time.

---

Greymarble - First of all, how much contribution is Llamarble actually putting into said hydra right now? I see a whole lot of posting I can chalk up to GreyICE's attitude and demeanor.

Now to the meat:

Grey, you're pushing a meta read on a singular head of our hydra here for the start-point of your case. Ignoring how bullshit meta is in the first place, you're using a half-assed meta at that. Basing a read off of one game (I don't care the circumstances, and I'm pretty shocked it was addressed to begin with), without so much as providing a hint that you've at least got a basic grasp of the player's play as the opposite alignment, is looking like a weak start-point. You then attack us on our post-style. While it has been admittedly sub-par, you're attacking Equinox for providing all aspects available in her posting, and being overtly transparent. What gives with that?

Kid your logic is ok. You're probing at something you want more information on. Good. But you're now refusing to actually acknowledge the responses made and instead countering with what you think to be witty retorts and underhanded trolling. Bad.

If you have something real to pose a question with, bring it forth. Otherwise, you can kindly go back to being a good town player and scumhunting the real scum.

---

Re: FES - I'd like their head lopped off and piked if possible, but that's just me. The biggest issue I have at this point is their clinging to FD. They admit that FD is highly unlikely to be lynched, yet they provide no other avenues for appeal other than DS. Now, I'm all for putting DS on the block right now, but they very meekly avoid the fact that their main read isn't going anywhere so they should be actually providing something to either 1) churn more people in the direction or 2) provide a logical jump to another player. They've been sliding by here and there, never giving too much, but posting just enough to avoid any real lurking suspicion. They come in, give their two cents, cling to their FD vote and then slide by a few more days until they feel the need to post again. Even their attempts to bridge the gap on DS has been very wishy-washy at best, as if they don't really want to go that way unless it absolutely comes down to it. Essentially, they realize their main suspicion isn't going anywhere, but they aren't willing to do anything about it unless pressed hard or a deadline looming.

---

@MOD

Do we have a definitive deadline here? We're approaching 3 weeks on Day 2, and yet I feel like this could go on for a very long time until the entire thread becomes lurk-city without the presence of a deadline.

---

Agree with Lord Fonzi's last paragraph re: Gummybear. You have been lurking, you haven't been actively partaking in this game, and you have been spewing more AtE than anything else in this game. You really need to shape up if you actually aren't intentionally lurking and instead are just being shit on by real life. It happens, but you seem to be making 0 effort to reconcile the issues here.

---

In the interest of us not becoming three players spamming the thread with our own individual reads, I am going to take a few minor thoughts to our QT. I'll bring forth a post later tonight after Frosty and Equinox have checked in with their input as well. But there have been a few things pinging my radar, and I've been in real-life city since Sunday unfortunately.

[Greymarble]

Balam: Meta ain't the basis of my arguments. Or the starting point. Here's a meta case:

"[CENSORED] always vote hops without reasoning when he's town"
"[CENSORED] is vote hopping without reasoning"
"[CENSORED] is town!"

...

Yah. So that's nonsense and I don't consider them. Certain behavoiral tells I might consider, but I remember RobCapone from 1105 where he was called on lurking early day 1 on the basis he never lurks as town, and immediately started posting prolifically (something he 'doesn't do' as scum). Or Zang, who used the defense of 'I always lurk, it's a null tell!' to defend his lurking.

That's called EXPERIENCE. It's different from a meta argument. I have experience with kcdaspot, it allows me to read him better. It doesn't mean that I'll think he's town because he's not "lurking like he did when he's scum" or think he's scum becasue he's "not posting frequently."

What I said here was mostly a joke to poke at Frosty. The meat and potatoes of my case is that posts like "Agar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y, we're going to do B for now" aren't very helpful, and when done in excess allow you to justify virtually any position or vote switch with no shown logic in the thread.

Lets quote you for a second:

(Equinox)

FOS: Equinox for disagreeing with Llamarble's logic.

This is mind-numbingly stupid.

Why yes! Yes it is. So how good is this?

I don't see a problem. I didn't move off Frogito Ergo Sum because the desire for Frogito Ergo Sum's blood in the QuickTopic was pretty high, and I trust AGar's and RayFrost's judgment; I assume neither AGar nor RayFrost moved off because they suspected Frogito Ergo Sum more than GummyBear.

I don't think it's any better. In fact the case you've presented on FES is surprisingly weak, all things considered. Moving to daspot after RayFrost's meta flavored reasons not to vote for him is hardly any better.

And in fact I didn't even call you out on that! I accepted that there could be more going on than what it looked like, and that there was logic and reasoning there. Until...

Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT. As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate. This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.

So where are we now?

Tuesday, March 22nd:"

Kill the following: Frogito Ergo Sum, Super Vanilla Townie (but let InflatableParama have their fill first), GummyBear

Monday, March 28th:"

Unvote, Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu

DaSpot posts inbetween then are #47 in the ISO to the end at #58.

And your case is that they're white knighting SVT. Who is becoming a steadily less viable lynch (or at least a less easy one) if it looks like Pie and Parama are actually paying attention. You have to BURN town cred to get them lynched, and they can and will fight back tooth and nail.

I don't particularly buy the white knighting stuff, and I don't particularly buy that DaSpot is scum.

At the moment, I'm going to do a reread, because if nothing else I'd rather lynch a scummy non-contributor than a scummy contributor, but I don't think that you're the lynch.

P.S. Marble contributes logic and reads to the QT on a semi-irregular basis. He's posted twice. He'll either come in or he won't, but he'll have reasons. That's what I like about him and one of the reasons I hydraed with him - he doesn't play based on gut or feelings.

P.P.S. And I really need to give Fonzi that reread, yes.

[Greymarble]

*They're the lynch. Balls. Proofreading for dummies 101.

[Lord Fonzi]

To elaborate, NY111 provides an excellent example of our point.

Yos2, who was town, returned to posting the day after his freaking wedding, gave strong reads and tried to get the town to follow him as soon as he resumed playing.

Zoraster, who was scum, moaned about how unfair it was that people were attacking him while he had claimed V/LA, despite the fact that there was a significant case on him that was unrelated to his V/LA.

Also check out FishytheFish in txtmafia. Constantly behind, posts about being busy and lacking motivation, scum, floated all the way to LyLo because no-one except me was willing to call him on it. Or they found it suspicious, but prioritized their townfights with active players with whom they disagreed.

Here, sure, Gummy has declared a few V/LAs. There have also been very long periods of time when they haven't been v/la but haven't been posting either. You can't be V/LA for a whole month. What they have posted has been largely unoriginal, and the one strong position I can recall them taking, attacking YosCayke over their Ether read, was a bad one. We were kind of willing to let it go when it looked like they'd flaked, but every time it starts looking like that, they pop up, catch up, then disappear again. Which does make it look like they don't want to be replaced, but lack the desire or the time to get really stuck in, and we're not going to take their word for it that it's the latter. They might not even be consciously aware of the fact that they lack the motivation to play properly because they're surviving just fine without actually having to really contribute.

They've done the whole 'commenting on everything and making lists' thing to give the illusion of content, rather than concentrating on finding a scum and making the case against them, which is what I'd be doing if I were in the position they claim to be in. I'd expect town in their position to recognize that the criticism is fair, and try to mitigate it. Instead, they've used what I consider to be misleading, dishonest and underhanded tactics to try to undermine the case against them- which, let's face it, doesn't even have that many advocates. Most people seem to either be ignoring Gummy entirely, or going 'Yeah they need to post more' and leaving it at that.

__________________________________

@Balam: Your definition seems to be along the lines of 'If there's logic that's good and I agree with, then it's town. If I don't think the logic makes sense/disagree with it, it's scummy.'

Oh, and just to note, given that last bit of rampant opportunism, this head will definitely prefer a FES lynch to a spot one if it comes to that.

[Greymarble]

Mini 1105, Ellibereth was V/LA for 80% of the game and coasted to endgame, was town. Multiple Personality Mafia, finding a Mafuyu post or a Rena (Nacho/Haylen hydra) post was like finding a diamond egg, town. Brotherhood of the Wolf, StrangerCoug and GhostWriter both coasted into b. eing replaced day 3 for multiple V/LAs and prods, town

Saporovirus, Mini 1117, did the same. Scum. Llamarble lurk-coasted Multiple Personality Mafia. Scum. I was arguably the most active player in Brotherhood of the Wolf. Scum. Zang lurk coasted forever. Scum.

Gimme more meat than that, Fonzi. The last post was essentially an update on how her reads had changed based on the last few pages (they hadn't) and what occurred to make them that way. That's not badposting. I'd like a better case on SVT/BW (if nothing else because I don't see the scum that apparently everyone else sees) but in terms of doing an MoI or Vi content-free catchup wall, don't see it.

Oh and Equinox? That was meta.

[Lord Fonzi]

Did you miss the bad attack, lack of original opinions part? You replied to a post asserting from prior experience that town with V/LA issues will usually do their utmost to have as much impact as they can, whilst scum spend more time trying to excuse their lurking and attack anyone who points it out, with what reads to me as 'LOL YOU SAID ONLY SCUM LURK AND THAT'S NOT TRUE!'

It's not just the inactivity, though there's no way on God's Earth that's not scummy in itself (note your own list includes as many scum as town doing it, which indicates it's a scumtell). It's the way they've handled it. If you're not willing to put the posts of people who don't make many under greatly enhanced scrutiny, then lurking remains a great scum strategy, as someone who lurks is not likely to post nearly as many contentious things as someone who contributes an acceptable amount.

When you make excuses for lurkers, and newbie excuses for active players who are being attacked for questionable/illogical/opportunistic comments they make because they are posting, what's left? Attacking active players who actually aren't that scummy.

[GreyICE]

You're preaching to the choir on lurking being a scumtell. I've made that argument myself. And I just don't see it for Gummybear.

Doing a solid reread now.

[Balam]

(Equinox)

I'd love to strangle Greymarble right now if I could help it, but I'll just settle for rage.

Fine, I accept that my posts about Frogito Ergo Sum were poor. Though now that there's been an actual case, you just go, "lol it's weak," as I would expect from someone who has their heads stuck in a tunnel leading them straight off the Cliffs of Dover. Never mind that no such tunnel exists in real life, you just built one. When you're done rereading the thread, come back and tell me with a straight face that Frogito Ergo Sum weren't lurking the shit out of this game and that suspicion has fallen off because they've lurked themselves out of it.

Man, we should do this "lurking" thing, too, AGar. Clearly it's working.

Moving to daspot after RayFrost's meta flavored reasons not to vote for him is hardly any better.

Where the fuck were you when the teacher talked about consideration of new evidence? This line is made of pure stupid, and you know it. 0/10, don't do that again.

The same applies to your potshot about my change of stance between March 22 and March 28. Oh, so it's a crime now to change stances between 5 days and 11 posts of godawful scummy posting? Quick, we need to call the 2008 Scummies Steering Committee and take Vi's Paragon Scummy back! We can't have people changing stances mid-game, no, sir!

If you don't agree with my logic about DaSpotthatkillsu, fine, but FFS don't make such bone-headed theory arguments.

(Also, GreyICE thinking he's given

me

a lesson about metagaming was amusing, but I'll just take it without complaining.

Thank you

, you've made my world a better place.)

[Balam]

(Equinox)

Make that 2010, dunno why I thought 2008.

If we're going to lynch lurkers, we're lynching these guys:

Unvote, Vote: Frogito Ergo Sum

[Greymarble]

Oh I am DOWN with a FES lynch at this point after that last Fonzi post. Watch a quick 180.

If I can accuse ONE PERSON in this game of active lurking, it's FES.

Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:38 pm
Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:47 pm
Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:44 am
Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:30 am
Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:36 am

Is da bear any better? Perhaps not, but she seems to be trying to put some content in her posts, and Fonzi doesn't even seem to mention her. Just harass people on the FES wagon and me to vote bear. "FES is a bad wagon for day 2! Try some gummybear, lecture fucking GreyICE on fucking lurking being a scumtell." (HI I'M GREYICE I MIGHTA MADE THIS POINT ONCE OR TWICE)

Screw this.

I've put up with enough bullshittery voting from FES in [REDACTED ONGOING GAME] he gets his ass lynched out of this one.

REVOTE: FES

FUCK YOU FATE, /SHEEP

If he flips scum, I'm firing Fonzi out an airlock. And there'll be a real case behind it.

PEDIT: Ninjad by my goddamn scumread. QQ.

Unvote

[Lord Fonzi]

You're preaching to the choir on lurking being a scumtell. I've made that argument myself. And I just don't see it for Gummybear.

Doing a solid reread now.

If you've got specific post-based reasons to think this particular lurker is more likely than an average lurker to be scum, I'm willing to engage with that argument, because I think they're more likely than an average lurker to be scum, partly because of their posts, partly because people who have been fixating on BW/SVT whose posts, imho, were better, and who also looked to me more likely just to not have time/have figured out how to play together, and less likely to be lurking as a tactic. It is however possibly I've missed something decent from them because their walls cause my eyes to glaze over, therefore if you think you've seen towntells in their posts, feel free to share them.

To be honest, an actual debate centered on Gummy's play would be fine by me, because until you just now, people aren't even defending them. They're just completely f'in ignoring them, or saying 'Bad Gummybear!' without being willing to call them scummy or vote them.

[Greymarble]

Fonzi:

Reasons that FES is town and GummyBear is scum. Lurking will officially be ignored as a reason, that applies equally. GO.

GO

GO DAMMIT

[Copper]

So Final Destination has continued to act as we said we would no longer tolerate. Grand. It begs mention that Copper who made a similar ultimatum has not remarked on this.

I don't recall us making a similar ultimatum. We have no problem with FinalDestination.

---

daSpot's ultimatum that BeaverWeasel wasn't lurking is silly. It reads like a scumbag trying for easy town-credit by defending the undefendable. That being said, YossarianFlavouredCayke's idea that daSpot is scumbuddies with SVT is similarly silly. Have you ever seen a scumbuddy blatantly lie to defend a buddy like that? You don't defend such a failure of a slot with such vehemence unless you're absolutely sure you'll be vindicated by a townflip - say, if you're scum and they're not on your team.

---

1. Frogito Ergo Sum - Leaning town. Not seeing the case on them.

It is their petulant wagon-sitting. I have no personal experience with Shanba, but CogitoErgoSum is a player who knows how to move their vote around. The parked, useless vote on FinalDestination suggests a focus on personal defensibility over scumhunting.

---

Put Copper on your Willing to Lynch list and it's a deal.

Vote: Copper if we aren't already.

Which Unicorn was this? And what do you believe the single strongest scumtell on us to be?

---

Balam and Greymarble looks town on town. If I had to pick one as scum, it would be Balam, but I don't want to lynch either. There is also this:

First off, Kcdaspot. I believe what Greymarble mentioned about Kcdaspot's nervous meta was also RayFrost's "secret meta tell" that he wouldn't tell me. However, he has recently indicated that danakillsu hasn't made appearances in their QuickTopic, and it's difficult to defer to people when they're not there. His posts defending BeaverWeasel are awful, awful like scum white-knighting and not town white-knighting. On top of that, the slot has had a defensiveness in their posts for a while that have been irritating, and I believe now that it's because they've been nervous about the suspicion against them from YosFlavouredCayke.

This is a very strong point - though, this could be vanity in that we have just come to the same conclusion. A danakillsu scumflip all but clears Balam as town.

Greymarble's FoS on Balam for thinking dana is scum is beyond absurd. I think dana is likely scum as well. Is this similarly suspicious?

---

UB’s 468 presents decentish points on Copper. However, I find Copperscum unlikely. Additionally, a vote which is essentially based on the fact that one post is too long? No bueno. However, the contribution from UB is much appreciated; it’s been a very long time coming.

Which points on us were "decentish"?

---

Unvote, vote: Spot

A step in the right direction. But the fact you felt contended with just this is still unsettling. Congratulations, when poked and prodded enough you can begin to act vaguely pro-town. Why does it takes pokes and prods?

[Balam]

(Equinox)

PEDIT: Ninjad by my goddamn scumread. QQ.

Don't let me stop you!

I'm not going to wait for AGar for this. I'm not willing to lynch GummyBear at this point in time because they actually have a wider range of stances and reasons behind them, whereas Appleface has locked themselves onto a single pair without even mentioning anyone else except... let's see, Unicorn Brethren (town) and Super Vanilla Townie (bad lynch, worse than random). I probably shouldn't be accusing Greymarble of tunneling whilst these guys are still alive.

GummyBear has promised activity, and I intend to hold them to that. If they luuuuuurk and WALL again, they will die fiery deaths, but until then I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they do what they promised to do.