Open 291 Frenenemies (+ other guy) - Game over: Wolves win!

[ToastyToast]

also, now that you are L-1, are you willing to claim? If mason, now would be the time to save yourself. Having confirmed town can help a lot right now.

[Furcolow]

unvote

for now
i'm not liking a replacement coming in and dictating things
calm down toast

[ToastyToast]

is it wrong for me to be involved?

[Furcolow]

1) You can't even spell my name
2) Your reads are just sheeping Crazy's
3) You are not voting "guaranteed scum"

[ToastyToast]

1) You aren't memorable enough in this game to complain
2) I respect him for being active, and added my own input; this is not sheeping, its agreeing.
3) no one is guaranteed scum

[Glass]

yay, past 1 and i cant sleep.

Anyways...

I'm essentially taking a risk--looking for mafia in the presence of wolves. In other words, I see why he thinks we should go after the second mafia--in order to reduce NK's.

Llama is purposely skewing the numbers, and crazy already explained this. But for him to continue to insist that a mafia lynch is better is ridiculous. read on:

If we lynch mafia, that means that there is 1 NK. Correct. This leaves us with a 4-2 spread. What llama fails to mention is that this is a mylo position and thus another no lynch and NK is inevitable. So either way there are going to be 2 NKs. If we have a mafia and a wolf dead there is not only a chance of a cross-kill, but we can also make relations of who is mafia and who is wolf much easier when we are at 3-1-1.

The odds of there being any number of masons is identical in both situations as there are 2 NKs in both situations.

Some examples: For whatever reason, you LOVED DRK. saying hi when he arrived, among other things
That is not my entire argument but definately added scumpoints

Great, let's hear the entire argument. Why hold back?
I greeted him as he came in, just as I did with other replacements.

Welcome signer and llama.

I seem to have forgotten you. Does that make you sad?

You say you genuinely thought DRK was town, but why?

He seemed town throughout his posts. You came in after he flipped scum, but read his iso and tell me it does not look town. I could ask you why you think crazy is town; It is pretty obv, but if you had to find a irrefutable town thing that he did you would be hardpressed because there are no things that only townies do in a multi-party scum game. chk was an exception because he did something that only a townie (and now that I think about it, a mafia (since mafia HAS to hit wolf today)) would do in that position.

But, look at the llama lynch. It was you and furculow. Not the towniest players.

wtf? Furc never voted for llama IIRC.

Also, I will claim when I am L-1 and there is intent to hammer thx.

[Furcolow]

1) hypocritical
2) Your input reflected his
3) you are now claiming you did not guarantee a werewolf flip on LF?

4) You are now backtracking

[ToastyToast]

No answers to RQS. I understand that this may be a matter of theory, but I for one love RQS because its great for reaction-fishing. I actually find it more useful than RVS

Your case on Krazy:
93 you use an obvious joke to make krazy look bad—he’s not stupid
Quaroath pointed out the problem with this in 110
Your post about saying things without content has no content in it; Quaroath backed off, but now he’s dead. Earliest challenge to Glass taken out.
You also say Krazy contributed nothing to the game. In reality, he started the RQS (Giving the biggest contribution that far into the game); he also later gave a TON of reads

You were against Crazy’s reasons for the vote, but left the option open to vote Krazy. This came off as being opportunistic. Krazy’s wagon hadn’t been solidified yet—you just had to wait and set a trap. The trap is post 148. You say there are 3 possibilities, which is a false dilemma of sorts. “You are one of these: A, B, or C.” How was Krazy supposed to respond to that?
Oh, there was this 191 and 194—those should have given you enough doubt to unvote.

Then, BLAM, suddenly onto the Krazy wagon; you should have been able to tell that Krazy was joking (its how he plays); not to mention the fact that wizrak had plenty of reasons to get a vote on him

Oh, and since I’m reading through the game

FURCLOW: 176—now THAT’S sheeping

188: so you prefer someone who has a terrible case against them AND the person he’s voting for. Does that make much sense? Nope. And it turns out the person you have a town read on is scum.

Around post 192 is where Crazy’s argument begins

After Krazy’s 194 post, you conveniently add bad points that manage to be passed on by town. Really? Speculating based on the lack of an emoticon? WTF
Also, he had a problem with those posts precisely because you attacked him. He didn’t expect you to use his humor against him.

Did you see DRK’s first post?Very opportunistic scum to vote Krazy immediately. Not town--surprised no one caught it, especially since he wasn't even done reading

And that sums it up
Now, why did I consider you town before pointing it out? Because reading through a game, the most active people tend to be more appealing. You contributed to discussions, and a quick look would show that you were contemplating your decisions. However, I now see such contempation as artificial.

</3 Toast

[ToastyToast]

But, look at the llama lynch. It was you and furculow. Not the towniest players.

wtf? Furc never voted for llama IIRC.

accident, I mean SSS. point still stands

[ToastyToast]

ugh quote fail

[ThAdmiral]

vote count

Crazy
tclawren
singersigner
Glass - 3 (Crazy, LlamaFluff, ToastyToast)
smashbro_of_the_SSS - 1 (tclawren)
LlamaFluff - 2 (smashbro_of_the_SSS, Glass)
ToastyToast
Furculow

Not voting - singersigner, Furculow

Glass is - 2

[Furcolow]

vote: Glass

baaa

[Glass]

>Completely ignore that I refuted all your points
>Still think that a maf lynch is better
>Continue to vote for "maybe maf" instead of "obv wolf"

Now what I find humorous is even though I will have completely refuted your reasons for voting me and I have already refuted furc's reasons for voting me, he will not mention them at all even though that is his ENTIRE CASE ON ME, where he continues to ignore my defense. You would think that after >50 posts you would have a bit more crazy?

Anyways... Time to refute some more arguments it seems.

No answers to RQS. I understand that this may be a matter of theory, but I for one love RQS because its great for reaction-fishing. I actually find it more useful than RVS

first point you bring up in the post and it is not an attack.

93 you use an obvious joke to make krazy look bad

No I didn't. I simply explained to him that wagoning is town.

Quaroath pointed out the problem with this in 110

And I respond with 115. Saying: "You were attacked for this" without looking at my defense is really a problem. Go and refute my defense there if you want this to be a point.

Your post about saying things without content has no content in it; Quaroath backed off, but now he’s dead. Earliest challenge to Glass taken out.

Wait, so you are saying that I killed quaroath for challenging me at the very beginning of the game over crazy who has been tunneling me hard since near-end day 1?

You also say Krazy contributed nothing to the game. In reality, he started the RQS(Giving the biggest contribution that far into the game)

PFffffftttttttt. The RQS did nothing to stimulate conversation and just made that portion of the game's post artificially more cluttered.

he also

later

gave a TON of reads

-points to bolded part-

You were against Crazy’s reasons for the vote, but left the option open to vote Krazy. This came off as being opportunistic. Krazy’s wagon hadn’t been solidified yet—you just had to wait and set a trap. The trap is post 148. You say there are 3 possibilities, which is a false dilemma of sorts. “You are one of these: A, B, or C.” How was Krazy supposed to respond to that?

Ok, so me NOT voting for krazy is opportunistic? False dilemma is such a false term too, a dilemma is a decision between two negative choices, which is not the case at all. I expected krazy to ignore it, I in no way grabbed krazy by the scruff of his neck saying: YOU HAVE TO RESPOND TO THIS!!!

Oh, there was this 191 and 194—those should have given you enough doubt to unvote.

Very much like post 405 and this post, huh?

so you prefer someone who has a terrible case against them AND the person he’s voting for. Does that make much sense? Nope. And it turns out the person you have a town read on is scum.

It does make sense because there are TWO SCUM GROUPS. And the person I "have" a town read on is scum, so I must be scum.

After Krazy’s 194 post, you conveniently add bad points that manage to be passed on by town. Really? Speculating based on the lack of an emoticon?

It is a valid point.

Very opportunistic scum to vote Krazy immediately.

Did you not just say a moment ago I was being opportunistic for NOT voting krazy?

accident, I mean SSS. point still stands

Awful point, look at my wagon. Furc and llama. Not the towniest players, huh?

SOB, I actually have stuff to do today. Llama case will be in the afternoon.

[ToastyToast]

Furcolow's vote is odd (lol sheeping)

Your defenses are accurate for SOME of my argument, primarily the last point your defense to the points on RQS are based on theory. Bottom line is, I find people who don't answer questions for the sake of "oh, they don't tell us anything" to be scummy. Your not the only one who did this, I'm just pointing out that it adds scum points on you from my perspective.

Your read on park/DRK was OFF, calling him town was OFF--he did nothing to make him stand out as such. KRAZY did more to make himself town.

Quaroath lynch would make sense--he wasn't the main person against your argument, but likely would have hopped right onto your wagon, especially if he saw Crazy get NK'd instead

[Furcolow]

you can't disprove a gut case on you glass, sorry
i feel like you are scum
there's nothing you can refute about how I feel

[Glass]

Ok, let's see if I got this all:

Crazy is voting me because he didn't like my reasoning for voting krazy.
Llama is voting me because he is scum trying to save his own ass.
Toast is voting me because ???
Furc is voting me because of gut + sheeping.

5 points goes to anyone who can determine why toast is voting me.

Now, onto my llama case:

First thing is the most obvious and the biggest scumtell:

Llama has voted me and let his other reads rot for no explained reason. Clearly only a wolf would be looking for a single scum when the rest of us (minus mafia) should be looking for 3 scum. This alone should be getting him lynched.

He expressed the desire to lynch furc because he was "lurking" when it was pretty obv he wasn't aware he was in the game.

I am completely fine lynching a scummy lurker. Furc is getting close to that point because I know he is active elsewhere.

He has not responded as to how furc was scummy when he had zero posts.

I got Glass voting me for something I really am not too sure on. It seems that when I hammered I asked people to stop talking which IS the correct thing to do.

^Here he is insinuating that I am voting him for because he asked people to stop talking when he hammered, which I never mentioned. That was SSS in fact.

Please explain crazy's case on me

He did just blast apart what you had said though with regards to giving reads, and you just sat there and looked unphased

That is NOT crazy's case, and llama really should know better than to actually understand someone's case before sheeping them.

Llama continues to insist that a mafia lynch is better than a wolf lynch, when that is clearly not the case. Crazy (and recently I) have shown this. Since it has been explained so many times I am not going to bother to explain it again here.

Llama's biggest suspect was park/zordiark, but when DRK replaced in llama had nothing to say about him; he kept his vote on (until the gambit) but did not try and sway anyone else to vote DRK and pretty much ignored him.

[Glass]

EBWOP:
That is NOT crazy's case, and llama really should know better than to actually understand someone's case before sheeping them.

I meant:

That is NOT crazy's case, and llama really should know better sheep someone without knowing their case.

[Glass]

OMFG

That is NOT crazy's case, and llama really should know better than to sheep someone without knowing their case.
Ok, I got it right that time (hopefully)

[Crazy]

Is Llama a likely werewolf due to his insistence that we go mafia-hunting today?

I don't think it makes him any more likely to be a werewolf than mafia personally.

Llama has voted me and let his other reads rot for no explained reason. Clearly only a wolf would be looking for a single scum when the rest of us (minus mafia) should be looking for 3 scum. This alone should be getting him lynched.

Yeah...

(I do agree that Llama's restatement of my case could have been better, though. I'd like to hear his defense on that.)

[ToastyToast]

I am voting you (glass) because of your case on krazy and your subtle support of DRK.

I don't care what we lynch, but I think you are both scum. HOWEVER, taking out the possibility for 2 kills in one night sounds great, so I'm naturally voting the person I think is most likely to be mafia.

The way I see it, llama wants mafia dead so the wolves don't have to worry about cross kills.

[ToastyToast]

I want to hear from the people who haven't said anything since I got here.

Do you think we should be aiming for mafia? werewolf? Do you not care?

[Glass]

@Crazy
When I first read your post I thought you were agreeing with the quotes crazy (I thought I was going crazy). Upon reading it a second time I noticed that it appears you are trying to show some sort of contradiction in these quotes. I kind of see where you are coming from, so I will clear things up:

quote 1: I say that llama is not more likely to be a werewolf because of his insistence to hunt mafia.
quote 2: Llama is a wolf because he is ONLY trying to hunt mafia.

There is a big difference crazy; in quote 1 llama had yet to do any scumhunting today and him thinking that it is advisable to hunt for mafia was excusable before actual logic was laid out in front of him. If he believed his own logic I can understand him trying to hunt mafia more than the wolves, but to simply ignore that other scum are out there completely is just absurd.

I don't care what we lynch, but I think you are both scum. HOWEVER, taking out the possibility for 2 kills in one night sounds great, so I'm naturally voting the person I think is most likely to be mafia.

DID YOU SERIOUSLY NOT READ MY POST WHERE I EXPLAINED HOW LYNCHING A WOLF IS MUCH BETTER? DID YOU ALSO IGNORE WHERE CRAZY DID THE SAME THING?

[ToastyToast]

Glass, I want to hear from everyone. That was the point.

[ToastyToast]

If it makes you feel better, I'll

Unvote:Glass

until I do.

[Glass]

Glass, I want to hear from everyone. That was the point.

If that was the point you would have had it in your original post. I highly doubt you made up you post completely forgetting your whole point.