Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Ant_to_the_max]

So you just admitted that FF tried to clear you as town, but "outwitted" me because you are really scum?
And I think I am 100% town now to everyone =/

[Tragedy]

Outwitted you as in like outsmarted you in awesome speculahs.
=/

[Tragedy]

If I had to gamble onto whose scum, it'd possibly be Amrun/Exe/Haschel.

[Tragedy]

So you just admitted that FF tried to clear you as town, but "outwitted" me because you are really scum?
And I think I am 100% town now to everyone =/

And if you were seriously 100% town, you should be looking back at the Amrun shit wagon and look again.

[Tragedy]

Exe (3+1) - TS, Amrun, Ant
TS (1) - Tragedy

[Amrun]

I don't buy FF's "clearing" of Tragedy at all, but I understand that point.


Still don't understand Tragedy's posts at all no matter how hard I try.

[Setael]

Ditto that.

Ant mentioned he was a doublevoter, yes, YES? His doublevoting power can either be scum or town [But I don't think mallow is a troll to make Ant a doublevoter.. Or IS HE..], anyways. We shouldn't forget that Mafia had night-doublevoting powers, too.

Are you trying to say that ant may actually be scum? If that were the case the game would be over.

Tragedy's sudden attempt to try to appear to be scum hunting just looks suspicious. She's scum.

Why are so many players lurking? I've been V/LA - anyone else have an excuse?

[Tragedy]

Ditto that.

Ant mentioned he was a doublevoter, yes, YES? His doublevoting power can either be scum or town [But I don't think mallow is a troll to make Ant a doublevoter.. Or IS HE..], anyways. We shouldn't forget that Mafia had night-doublevoting powers, too.

Are you trying to say that ant may actually be scum? If that were the case the game would be over.

Tragedy's sudden attempt to try to appear to be scum hunting just looks suspicious. She's scum.

Why are so many players lurking? I've been V/LA - anyone else have an excuse?

It may be possible, but there's still a bigger chance he could possibly be town, but it's still possible he could be scum.
And no, I was looking not-so-deep under how the Amrun wagon got disbanded here.
And we've got lives..

[Ant_to_the_max]

AHHHHHHHHHHHH OK!

So in regards to Haschel Cedricson:

Going through his ISO from D1, there are a lot of posts that jump out as scummy to me. The wanting to rush Exe or anyone else as executioner/wagoning TS/weird pledge thing.

Don't know if it was sleeping on it, or giving it more time, but when you look at his later post though, I can actually see them in a more town light. Instead of seeing the rushing/pledge/most the other things he said, they actually seem to have more of a town twist on them now. And him being town actually works into my next thought:

First off, Exe, if you think you are confirmed town, you are delusional. In fact, a daykill ability seems perfect for scum, since they can lose their nightkill. Although when I said a VT should die, I was thinking of a normal mafia game, because then VTs left alive make it easier for scum to narrow down PRs. I'm not sure if the same concept applies in this game. Thoughts?

A public day-kill is almost NEVER a scum role.

Why?

Because in LyLo, I win for scum.

Obvious town-role is obvious.

You should be debating whether or not my claim was honest, NOT whether it'd be a scum role...because it wouldn't.

LOL you're going to kill me? Seriously?

Execute: Amrun It may be too late for that, but if so,

this game is over anyways.

GG scum.

So...balancing issues with this game. The scum have to have a power role in this game. I think we can all agree on that. But what would it be? As Umbrage pointed out, a killing role would seem to balance things out a bit. Also, if the mechanics works like Exe claimed then the scum team would be Exe and 2 of these (Tragedy, Twistedspoon, Setael) by PoE. I come to those three because scum would obviously not vote to elect someone before their partner could easily take out the townie during the day. So Exe, why the "this game is over anyways. GG scum part"?

Oh, and for it being OP in LyLo situations, today wasn't supposed to be a LyLo day.

On the different note about Charter. I won't lie. Tonight I got bored going through his ISO so I stopped mid way through. Lots of tunneling on townies though, but I will go through later and not half ass it

And we've got lives..

?

[Ant_to_the_max]

EBWP: IGNORE THAT ? @ TRAGEDY
I understand what she is saying there >___>;

[Amrun]

Well, what IS she saying?

We've got lives?

[Setael]

I'm suddenly worried about ant's alignment. Why wouldn't a scum have 2 votes during the day? Since they don't automatically get a NK, it'd actually make sense to give them a leg up during the day to help them get control of the executioner. If ant is scum though, there are only 2 scum. I suppose that's possible but if so they're likely PR heavy since we had a cop. (maybe one of them has a day kill as well. I really doubt exe would've done the "GG scum" post if he were scum though - especially where he mentioned in the same post that it was likely too late for the kill.

Also, I think maybe exe actually did intend to use his vig D1 and use the wrong wording. When he was informed of it he decided to pretend it was a gambit. Seems that scum would be more likely to not admit that than town.

[Amrun]

So you think both Ant and Exe are scum? Did I read that right?

[Ant_to_the_max]

Well, what IS she saying?

We've got lives?

Yes. As an answer to Set's question about activity.

And Set...would it help set your mind at ease if I told you I have a 0-4 town record? >_>
I'm throwing ideas out because we need to be right on this lynch.

[Amrun]

I like hearing your thoughts on things, Ant, as you're the executioner, so I ask you to keep going on that.

And okay, lives thing makes more sense now.

[mallowgeno]

Prodding HC and Charter

[Setael]

TS is lurking hard core, probably hoping we'll forget about him. He should definitely be today's lynch.

And no, I don't think exe and ant are both scum, but they're not cleared townies. I was assuming ant had to be town since he didn't end the day quickly, but there could be 2 scum. Or maybe he didn't want to risk arousing the suspicion if somehow we managed to pull off a scum execution tonight.

I know these scenarios are unlikely. I still think the most likely scum team is TS, charter and tragedy.

I know it's lining up lynches but I think we should kill someone tonight. I would have ant kill TS today and then vote me to kill either charter or tragedy tonight, regardless of how TS flips.

[Setael]

I'm rereading now that i have a little more time on my hands and because I'm on my phone I'll just post questions & observations as I go.

Unless I am mistaken, you guys vote for the player you want to GIVE killing power to >_>

This is right after SO and SV, who we now know were town, random voted. If ant were also town, I think he'd have said "we" instead of "you guys". It's also weird that he says "unless I am mistaken" when the previous post he'd said "Ummm do you know how this game is working?" which indicated he definitely knew how it worked and was confident he wasn't mistaken. I do think scum, at the beginning of the game, would have a lot better idea how the game worked, whether because of qt conversation or role pm info or just a bigger need to know motivation. They would also be a bit cautious about looking too obvious about having a better understanding of the game, and I'm definitely seeing that in these first Ant posts.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Just waking up.

Or I was just excited for my first theme game =/

[Setael]

I completely disagree with the logic for 4 scum. I am expecting 3 scum, therefore 6 votes. They already have a HUGE advantage in that they know exactly who they are picking, so one of their members always has at least 6 votes.

FF's "logic" for 4 scum was merely that because scum don't have control of the nk there may be more of them. How could exe so completely dismiss this idea unless he has inside info?

However, exe indicates here that he thinks scum can vote for themselves at night. Scum would be acutely aware that they cannot. So if exe is scum he intentionally planned to feign misunderstanding the setup. I guess there's a chance of that, but I'm not really feeling it's contrived.

In post 20 charter makes a fairly long content post about game mechanics and says:

Second, I like Exe.

Third, I'm pretty sure Axe is scum.

It is strange and scummy that he gives no reasons for these reads and instead opts to talk about how lynching should work. It's possible he named a scum buddy and a townie. Ant would more likely be the townie just based on charter messing up his name twice (he'd be more familiar with him if he were his buddy).

As for my day vote, I am toying between giving it to Tragedy under the premise of "Girls first" and for being awesome or give it to Final Fires for a gut feeling.

As of right now, I think Exe would be a better night vote choice instead of day.

People I would be willing to lynch; StrungOver, Shattered Viewpoint
Reasons; Just working with what I have so far. *shrugs*

Possible Ant-Tragedy connection. Also, weird that he gives no reason for a scum read on SO or SV. Says he's willing to lynch them but then totally shrugs off any responsibility for it.

At night I will vote for the same person that I vote for during the day, unless that person is the Executioner and they execute a townie.

Haschel's first post gives me town vibes. I think scum would be more agreeable to the plans that had been presented instead of starting the game going rogue and random voting the way he did. No caution = town tell.

Vezok pipes in that he doesn't like ant and FF and it's becoming clear how little people are discussing reads. Instead they're only talking about how voting & executing should work. Scum were likely among these as it's ideal for scum to avoid giving solid reads D1 so we can't make any connections and find their buddies once they flip.

TS' first post he does exactly that. Long post agreeing with plans and ideas. Never once makes a comment about reads. (the next two posts are umbrage and vezok stating scum reads. Definitely a pattern.)

Ok so then vezok says:

twistedspoon strikes me as someone who knows too much. Why would there be an investigative role or some type of doctor? How are you so certain of that?

First, vezok made a really good point here. TS' confidence in town PRs indicates the possibility that he knows the scum have PRs. Ant immediately accuses vezok of phishing for PRs which is totally off base and makes it likely that ant and TS are both scum, since it's a chainsaw. He totally ignores the quite valid point against TS and instead attacks vezok. (**It seems like ant has been very reluctant to consider TS being the execution today but maybe I'm rememberin wrong. Need to look back at that.**)

So then umbrage post 39 and vezok post 41 both misunderstand and accuse ant of sheeping/repeating vezok's attack of TS when he was actually directing his statement at vezok. It's awhile before any posts clarifying (did v or umb look back and see what was scummy?)

TS posts again without giving any reads and then exe says:

Everyone in their next post should include 1 or 2 people who they plan to kill if they receive executioner. This game let's the scum hide behind focusing on who they think is pro-town rather than stating who is scum, so I want scum reads NOW. If you claim it's too early for a read, I will add you to the top of my kill list.

Part of me feels like this is really pro-town and very unlikely to be posted by scum at this point. The other part thinks it's odd that exe didn't call out the specific players who weren't giving scum reads. Umbrae and vezok definitely had. TS and ant had not (ant gave no reasoning so his hardly count). It's possible this post was exe seeing his buddies avoid listing scum reads and, knowing it looked fishy, telling them to snap out of it.

Ok scratch that because exe's post 43 is fantastic and really unlikely to be bussing. I think he called a scum pair I'm TS and Ant way back here, even though he missed ant's chainsaw defense of TS. (vezok immediately agrees with exe's list). I feel like ant's activity dropped way off after this, probably to avoid so much suspicion - need to check on this.

Ok so then FF accuses vezok of phishing with his statement about TS and this is probably what started all of us thinking vezok was scum. This probably masked the TS-Ant connection and it really sucks that we took this wrong turn here. A second read through knowing vezok was town clears up a lot and makes both TS and Ant look really scummy.

That's all I have time for right now. I'm really concerned about ant now. I actually see no reason scum couldn't have one day double voter when they all have double votes at night. It actually make a lot more sense as a scum PR in this game since usually scum automatically gets NK control. I also no longer believe that ant scum would've quick lynched today since scum couldn't risk town killing a scum member tonight and then lynching any tomorrow. I think there's a good chance we voted a scum as dy executioner and now he's working to lead us toward agreeing on a townie to execute.

Surely whatever happens he will execute a townie, but he really wants it to look like town approved his kill so he's creating a kill list that surely has townies on it. He'll kill a townie today and hope we no lynch tonight. It's clear that if ant is scum, the scum likely don't have certain control over tonight's NK. (that or there are only 2 scum or some other reason ant didn't quick lynch.)

This is based on a reread of the first few pages plus ant's play today which I've found suspicious. I do, however, think those first few pages are key since they're before we got on the wrong track about vezok. Hopefully more later. At this point I think we should require ant to execute TS (his most likely scum buddy) and if he doesn't we NK him tonight.

[Tragedy]

When he meant the "Girls First" part, it was for random execution voting moment, wasn't it?

[Setael]

Wow, that was scummy tragedy. It's clear that you really don't want to be linked to ant. That's really the only comment you have?

I'm calling a TS-Tragedy-Ant scum team.

After that post, I'd be just as happy requiring Ant to day kill tragedy.

[Tragedy]

Wow, that was scummy tragedy. It's clear that you really don't want to be linked to ant. That's really the only comment you have?

I'm calling a TS-Tragedy-Ant scum team.

After that post, I'd be just as happy requiring Ant to day kill tragedy.

It's clear you didn't notice we started random voting people for executioners. In the BEGINNING. That was in the first page, Post #24.
If you're widely stupid enough, it was when we started our plans, but he never got to vote me anyways. Noobface.

[Twistedspoon]

TS is lurking hard core, probably hoping we'll forget about him. He should definitely be today's lynch.

excuse me, but my last post was after charter's and haschels
Why pick on me, although I do admit I haven't been here in a couple of days

anyways, I've been busy. Catching up now

This makes no sense

scum would really get rid of the idiots first [TS, Myself, Cough.

I'f I'm such an idiot (which I take as a complete ad hominem from tragedy) then why on eath did you vote for me last night phase?

explain

[Tragedy]

@TS: I prefer to expect you to become Night Executioner since I know you'd be trusting FF to the max [Or amIwrong], and wouldn't execute him.
Looks like we gave the Executioner to scum again...