Newbie 1067 - Game over - Town Win!

[PeRrY-_-]

Welcome GMan!

Perry makes another excuse 'what a surprise!'

actually i put my reads >.>

[Mist7676]

Yes but still u made an excuse. If you cant do it then just dont post. It makes u look like u r trying to push it off.

[PeRrY-_-]

all right, i will

[inspiratieloos]

^^^ *facepalm*

Mist: I don't think Nacho would replace out just because he is losing he is supposed to give us the good example (not that being replaced is a good thing in any case), Les might. Les is also a newb and it is pretty clear that this is not the right game for him (if he was indeed VI and not playacting scum). I'd be looking at the newbie queue if I were you. If he is just a sore loser he would be getting into a new game in not to much time I think. If he was town I hope he did the smart thing and decided to quit.

Welcome GMan, it looks like you spent >3 hours catching up and posting useful content, respect. You do put me for a problem though. I truly think that Les and thus you are scum, but you can hardly be expected to defend yourself from whatever logic Les was using...
You do make some valid points about kcda. I can now see what Mist meant at the start, I have a hard time finding games in which he is town, especially where he is asked for reads...

[GMan]

In Mist's defense, claiming cop used to be a kind of a game breaking strategy in newbie games (see wiki). However, it's the reason the newbie setup is what it is today and aims to prevent that from happening (since following the cop isn't the best way to learn mafia), and should be obvious from the semi-open setup that asking for a cop claim is a very bad idea.

1) There are now roleblockers. Out the real cop? He gets blocked.
2) There may be no cop. You open the door for scum to fake claim if they think there's a good chance there is no cop.

[GMan]

And of course, the other possibility is a cop with no doctor and the scum will no there can't be a cop AND doc unless there is a roleblocker. If someone claims cop and they don't have one - dead cop. We just gave up our cop.

Cop should only claim if they have game-changing info.

[Uncle Pain]

Welcome GMan! After your posts I feel a bit over-IC’ed but this is only good.
I will now do my own analysis; I felt quite ill this morning and have slept very long to help the cure but here I am now.

[Uncle Pain]

GODDAMN STUPID ME, I just closed my browser accidentally and lost my large post. I hate myself.

[Kcdaspot]

i actually at the time of his exit didn't like a les lynch.

[GMan]

i actually at the time of his exit didn't like a les lynch.

Your full read on Les at his exit please.

[Kcdaspot]

newb null town

I can't really comment on most of his work...

but this post is a simple exemplar why i think he's more newb than anything.

"

Good-night? ah! no; the hour is ill. Which severs those it should unite...

" Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822)

Town is losing game! One I wish I never played, Oh, what a mess!

"this sucks" -- null noob

But anyway I would like to share with you the lessons I learnt:

1. Some players being Town unfortunately do not act pro-town.

you see him learning

I cannot understand the minds of dead souls and speak on their behalf, of course, but ... I think Hazard ought to have been more active not to lead town people to miss-lynch.

hindsight is always 20/20

2. Other players, like me (Les) are unfortunately over active. So when Inspira points a finger in blame at me he is right from the point of view of simple logic, but... he is committing the same mistake for the second time (first he voted for Hazard, now he is voting for Les). So, Inspira, If I am lynched you will have the three other fingers pointing back at yourself

<< very town - scumhunting when the pressures on and putting some logic behind it. he doesn't explicitly say "X is scum" here but he draws people's attention to alleged legitimate scummy behavior

3. Following the development of the game mafs look like love me a lot. So they will not kill me till the very end. And that is bad for the town. I wish I had been killed by mafs so that IC Zacharios could go on with this game.

i'm not sure how to read this.. he recognizes himself as a VI...

4. Good news! Doc and Cop are alive! I think they should play now in a more active way.
5. If Hazard had been turned out to be scum I would have voted Lady Mist (for the reasons I had given before the end of D1).,
6. Love you all
Les

just a few of the tilltale signs as to why I, to my knowledge, never voted him... at least on D1.

[Kcdaspot]

im bolded by the way.. his ISO is FULL of this. though he runs into rough patches...

reread tomorrow.. i've been kind of busy as of late... i said this before -- i work at a large grocer as bread stocker for a vendor. the 1st is coming, so I expect to be swamped.

also school giving me migraines.

[GMan]

There's an inconsistency with that.

He made that post, and then you said this:

I getting close to thinking les is scum again...

How did you first read that post, and what caused you to change your mind.

[GMan]

@mod: Fix quote tags please? Quotes around the quote author should suffice

[Uncle Pain]

Regarding my promised thoughts, here a small memory recap from what I gathered yesterday but lost due to my stupidity.

• Mist7676: At first I found her a bit confusing due to her Nachomamma8 vote reasoning but in retrospect I think she had a point to question him. She didn’t jump on the Hazard with a Glove bandwagon, I find that slightly townie. All in all leaning towards town.
  
• dysorder: He has some helpful posts and seems to watch closely for scum but he quickly hopped on the bandwagon when it was convenient. Half-half.
  
• inspiratieloos: Sensible posts, I’d like to say he’s probably town… if it weren’t for some oddities. Like saying Les Guilelesser is 90% scum but that’s not enough to hammer him. Or like rating Kcdaspot the second-towniest but still he
  “might be convinced to vote Kcda if it becomes necessary to get a lynch”
  . Very unsure.
  
• Les Guilelesser: Confusing guy, buddies up with Mist7676, thinks he knows the role distribution at Day 1, pronounces inspiratieloos as the doctor… At least GMan succeeds in fixing the behavioural issues of his predecessor still Les Guilelesser’s play was too anti-town to put the issue aside. Scum.
  
• Kcdaspot: Voting to put pressure on someone? Good. Voting to put pressure on someone but then accepting the bandwagon’s fate as if the lynch was justified although the reasoning was weak? Bad. Scum.
  
• PeRrY-_-: Doesn’t contribute much to the discussion and then, after a lot happened, he just joins the Hazard with a Glove bandwagon, conveniently referring to dysorder. If I were to vote unhelpful players, he’d be on the top of my list but unhelpfulness isn’t
  necessarily
  scummy. Slightly towards scum.
  
• Nachomamma8 (to let you know what I think about his play so far): Has some funny turns in his way of thinking. Asks serious questions from the beginning and uses his vote as an active means to get people to talk. Leaning towards town.

[Uncle Pain]

Now on to some questions, getting some motion into the discussion…

GMan: What’s your stance on Les Guilelesser? How has he helped town so far and why should we believe he (and thus you, too) is town?

inspiratieloos: How, if at all, has GMan changed your mind about your vote?

PeRrY-_-: Who do you think are the scum buddies? Why them and not others? Your brief post on your reads doesn’t give much indication there.

dysorder: What do you think about the reason of Kcdaspot’s vote on you?

Mist7676: Is your suspicion towards GMan and me still current? If yes, can you somehow prove your point with posts? If no, who would it be now?

Kcdaspot: Do you think it’s a coincidence that Mist7676’s current top suspects (GMan and me) are both voting you?

[inspiratieloos]

My vote stands for now, GMan has a lot to make up for.

When did I say that Les is 90% scum, I'm pretty sure I never did because I don't use percentages (they're confusing imo), I also never said it isn't enough to hammer him afaik. Are you sure that isn't from someone else? What I meant: If the choice becomes lynch kcda or no lynch, I choose to lynch kcda, while if the choice becomes lynch Nacho/no lynch I think I'd have gone for no lynch. My opinions had changed at that point and he was 4th in the list, but lynches on Perry, Mist or Les weren't feasible at that point (deadline was <30hours when I said that).

I think those are good questions, I have some comments about some of them but I'll wait with that until the others have responded.

[jasonT1981]

Day 2 vote count 4

Kdcaspot 2 - Uncle Pain, GMan
Dysorder 1- Kdcaspot
GMan 1 - inspiratieloos

Not voting

Mist
Dysorder
PeRrY

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch with a deadline at 12th April at 3.15pm EST

[Uncle Pain]

inspiratieloos: Regarding the Les Guilelesser hammer, you said that in #155. I interpreted the hesitation (asking others about it, “I really shouldn't do this”) as a sign that you would falter if the L-1 situation arose.

I haven’t been in the situation yet but I’m not opposed to No Lynch on Day 1. The Numbers, Part 1 say that an odd number of players favours Mafia while an even number favours town. No Lynch on Day 1 may have looked like an insensible townie death but also could have gotten the town into a better winning chance. As a conclusion, I’m not sure that the time-pressured bandwagon was really necessary.

[GMan]

GMan: What’s your stance on Les Guilelesser? How has he helped town so far and why should we believe he (and thus you, too) is town?

Looked like a guy who was clearly out of his depth to me. First, there was the language barrier and second, I don't think he really understood the game at all. At points he seemed to think it was some kind of roleplaying game. I suppose at some level it is, but he seemed to take it a bit further.

I cannot answer for his play though. It's easy for me to see he was just a massive noob now knowing his alignment as town. Before I replaced in and was keeping up with the last few pages, I probably had him on my scummy list too.

All I can answer for is my own play. I don't expect anyone to unvote or lay off me now. I just have to let my scum hunting speak for itself.

[Kcdaspot]

okay so reading over all of what les has said... it's very scummy if each post is taken bit by bit.

but taken as a whole in context... i'll have to say, with a small remark on how les needs to calm down a but and think his posts through (HEY MIST SOUND FAMILIAR? WINKWINKNUDGENUDGE), I will ultimately say the he is indeed town.

This. everytime les posted in singular scum vibes came off but when i ISO him he seemed town.

answer your question GMan?

i know it's weird but...

[dysorder]

Uncle Pain: My response to kcdaspot's vote is in #348, where I disproved his only two reasons for voting me, aside from the whole OMGUS angle. He hasn't been bothered to retort to anything I had to say, which after thinking about it seems very strange. Not sure he even actually cares about the vote on me, to be honest. Only one other mention of me and that was asking you what you thought of me.

Maybe I've overlooked his play and misread...

[jasonT1981]

PeRrY and Mist have both been prodded. Few hours before the 72 hours, but I will be asleep when the 72 hours is up

[Mist7676]

Sorry I haven't been posting. Homework fucks my schedule up. On Uncle's question,

Seeing as how you guys have been posting you seem really protown.

GMan - 20/80
Uncle - 30/70

Les scummy is still messing with me. Being an IC status you can still just be a good scum.

Reading KCD's question: are you suggesting me and him are scum parteners?

My scummy meter has ran over to inspire and kcd.

Inspire - 50/50
KCD - 50/50

Inspire because of the not voting Les till hammer buisness. And not voting KCD unless he can get others voting him also.

KCD - because of the zach and hazard business. Of course that can't be only reason. Also protecting
Es than voting. I'm not willing to vote any of them yet until scuminess goes up.

V/LA for the rest of the day. I'm going out of town again.

[inspiratieloos]

LOL...

I said that 11 pages ago, basically everyone has pointed to it at some point. You did it yourself in your earlier reads. Uncle gets to do it because he replaced and is pointing out everyone's scummy/stupid actions. But for you to suddenly call me scummy for

that

makes no sense. You've got to have something more Mist... (50/50 means slightly scummy and 30/70 means null right?)

Hopefully Perry posts some content.