Open 291 Frenenemies (+ other guy) - Game over: Wolves win!

[ToastyToast]

@singer: because I don't want you to be scum. You are the closest to town of my scumreads, but I didn't like wizrak's play and expect you to be playing more. Idk, maybe your just overloaded.

[Furcolow]

I don't want mason claims
Singer defending Glass is still reading hilarious after we have the speculation gone

[singersigner]

I'm...not...defending Glass?

[Furcolow]

did you or did you not say: "I don’t like Glass either

but

Toasty’s making a huuuuuge stretch to hop on his wagon. "

[singersigner]

I did. But that in no way means I'm defending him.

In context it reads that while I would normally approve of a vote on Glass, I disapprove of the way Toast went about it and am calling him out on it.

[ThAdmiral]

vote count

Crazy
tclawren
singersigner

Glass - 5 (Crazy, LlamaFluff, Furculow, tclawren, Glass)

smashbro_of_the_SSS
LlamaFluff - 1 (ToastyToast)
ToastyToast
Furculow

Not voting - singersigner, smashbro_of_the_SSS

Glass was indeed a

Werewolf

It is now night 2

[ThAdmiral]

Crazy has been shot. He was a

Mason

singersigner has been eaten. She was a

Backup Mason

Unlucky

It is now day 3. With 5 alive it is 3 to lynch.

[Furcolow]

mason killed ✔
backup mason killed ✔
mason claim worthless, and unprovable ✔
Furcolow is a townie? ✔

[LlamaFluff]

Mason claim not worthless and unprovable. Im about 95% sure SSS is the play here (works as partners easily to both players) but am going to read to be sure. Also see, worse case scenario, exact reason why mafia lynch was better.

[Crazy]

Both of you rotten mason-killing scum need to DIE!!!

BAH.

[LlamaFluff]

joins the wizrak wagon in post 93, barely mentioning him in that post aside from the vote. Even in his next couple posts, he doesn't explain the vote.

You do realize that most of your votes and suspects this game have been people with a wagon on them already? This seems kind of suspicious to me.

Pretty nice connection here, when he is catching up day two, he throws his wieght towards a few other people, but takes a very light stance towards Glass. He says he doesnt explain a vote, and that he is wagoning, but thats just suspicious and he leaves him alone. No questions but a rhetorical one.

At the same time though, we get stuff like

Alright, so. First off,

I have a gut read on Glass as scum

(either werewolf or mafia) but I need to look over the thread again before I come up with a case on him. Also the same for singer, will have to work on building a case for her.

Yeah, I have a scum read on Glass.

To be honest, I could be behind either lynch right now.

He continually keeps coming back to a vote on me, while is always has Glass as scummy, but never ends up acting on it. I see him as basically a perfect partner to SSS at this point with his connections.

Reversing the interaction, there is a little bit of the same treatment returned early

My attention is very drawn onto SSS, but I am going to UNVOTE: until some shit gets sorted out regarding the 4 needed replacements.

Glass of course just goes back to not paying attention to SSS until the point where its me vs Glass when we get

You are a suspect of mine. You don't have a wagon on you. But my votes have mostly been on people with wagons. The reason for that is because I believe town will get more from pressuring one person than spreading the votes over many people.

Find it similar to what SSS said about Glass? "You are scummy, but I do not want to vote you".

Interactions between DRK and SSS? None. Nada. Zilch.

SSS works as a partner to either of the two players, and is the lynch

Vote SSS

[tclawren]

First things first:

1. I want the mason to claim. We are practically in mylo. We need the info.

2.

Be very, very careful with your votes

. The worse that can happen right now is a quicklynch.

Still in the process of rereading stuff.

I'm leaning with Llama being a maf and Toasty being a wolf right now.

[LlamaFluff]

1. I want the mason to claim. We are practically in mylo. We need the info.

No. No mason claim yet. Mason claims tomorrow if they are alive. Mason only claims today if they are about to get lynched. Mason claims today and we are guarenteed to have no confirmed players alive tomorrow. Please people lets stop claiming "not mason"

2.

Be very, very careful with your votes

. The worse that can happen right now is a quicklynch.

This I agree with, but a quicklynch doesnt result in an auto-loss. One vote out will not kill us here, and im pretty sure that SSS is flipping some sort of scum, probably wolf.

[ToastyToast]

Having a mason claim means having one confirmed townie. Furucolow, you say it can't be provable, but it is given that if scum claims it can be easily countered.

Llama, your points on SSS are a little streched out for me to acutally believe. Besides, it was your OWN SCUMMY ACTS that made myself skeptical about a glass lynch. Pointing out skepticism like that, if meant to be a point, must point to all. AND he said he would get on either lynch. Could be opportunistic scum or someone who thinks they have both scum.

Not voting yet because, as tclaw says, we need to be careful with votes. I only have one solid scum read on ya'all, that being tclaw. I plan to do an ISO on furuclow first (yeah, i know I keep speeling your name wrong) and then I will look if there is any reason to believe SSS suspicions.

My issue with llama is that I find it hard to believe that he's scum with Glass. On the other hand, I was convinced that he was werewolf because of his want to search for mafia instead. If I don't think there is enough evidence in the first 2, I'll ISO llama (again)

G'night folks

[LlamaFluff]

Ugh.... and the final person claims "not mason" meaning my vote is in the wrong spot

unvote

[ToastyToast]

mason killed ✔
backup mason killed ✔
mason claim worthless, and unprovable ✔
Furcolow is a townie? ✔

Why do you feel the need to call yourself a townie? We should be able to prove that with your posts
Unless there is a connection between dead masons and this post, this doesn't make sense.

[LlamaFluff]

Time for "bust the game open" stage, yes im going to claim for the mason, but everyone else has claimed not mason and knowing this should help us out.

Mason is SSS, everyone else is out
I am vanilla
Furc is the last vanilla (for reason of not getting a role, this is much more likely to happen to VT since scum/mason would have asked mod what was up)
tcl is mafia
Toast is wolf (Crazy was right here)

Game set match.

[ToastyToast]

Those are bad assumptions.
1)Wait for him to say it
2)or you aren't
3)Reading into a mistake is not good; ANYONE WOULD HAVE TO ASK THE MOD WHAT WAS UP; if mason, mafia, VT didn't get a role, they wouldn't know what they were, would they? *facepalm*
4-5) Actually prove that, and where did Crazy call me wolf?

Also...

Both of you rotten mason-killing scum need to DIE!!!
BAH.

was written after your post and furuclows post--thats who he thinks is scum

[LlamaFluff]

Those are bad assumptions.
1)Wait for him to say it
2)or you aren't
3)Reading into a mistake is not good; ANYONE WOULD HAVE TO ASK THE MOD WHAT WAS UP; if mason, mafia, VT didn't get a role, they wouldn't know what they were, would they? *facepalm*
4-5) Actually prove that, and where did Crazy call me wolf?

Also...

Both of you rotten mason-killing scum need to DIE!!!
BAH.

was written after your post and furuclows post--thats who he thinks is scum

1) Process of elimination said masons were in the ones that died, you and SSS since start of day two. Pay attention. aah claimed not mason, I am not mason, you claimed not mason, tcl claimed not mason.
2) I am. My role says I am.
3) That is not the only reason. He also not scum with Glass due to the sheep onto him when I could have been easily voted. aaah was also very interested in glass early, so furc-wolf is doubly out. This just leaves mafia, who through DRK posts say that aah is probably not mafia. If furc is scum its mafia, the chance of that is almost zero though. At this point all I have to do is ID the VT and I vote for scum regardless.
4) Crazy spend a good deal amount of time saying chck was scum.

Only question for me is if you're [Glass] mafia or werewolf, and if you're a werewolf, who your partner is. Chk/Toast is my best guess atm.

Later he says the only reason the pairing isnt cemented is that he wasnt killed N1. So yeah, he was into you-Glass as a pair if Glass was wolf. Glass flips wolf, Crazy dies. If we are going to play the NK-wifom card, you are doubly scum off more then just interactions. Tcl gets scum by process of elimination. I cant see it possibly being anybody BUT him at this point for reasons I have already said.

Oh also thats called a "bah" post. It is a go team post that anyone can make, and has no game related content in it, having content results in modkilling, blacklisting, etc. Nice stretch to draw attention off of you though.

[ToastyToast]

And using sheeping for defending someone is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've heard since being on this side.
Also, picking scum based off "process of elimination?" Thats BS that no one should actually listen to.

And Crazy got killed by mafia, not wolf. So I don't understand your speculation there.
I know what a "bah" post is, but you speaking for a dead player is odd. Especially given that last post, where he said BAH. Crazy subtly said his last thoughts in that post.

I really hate when people feel they have to announce to the world that they are town. If you are, I should be able to tell from your posts. But I can't. I also do not see scum in the posts of SSS and tclaw, both of whom didn't find it necessary to soft-claim.

Llama and furuclow are scum.

[ToastyToast]

EBWOP: side=website

[LlamaFluff]

And using sheeping for defending someone is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've heard since being on this side.

Interactions between two players can both show that they are scum together, or NOT scum together. In this case, the way that Furc reacted to Glass being ran up was not how a partner to Glass would have reacted. He ignored the case on me by instead pushing on Glass when a bus would not have been necessary. I do not think they are scum together because of the sheep vote that Furc put on Glass. It was a weak vote that he probably wouldnt get much town credit for (like you arent giving him) and got his partner lynched, lose-lose situation.

Also, picking scum based off "process of elimination?" Thats BS that no one should actually listen to.

It works perfectly in open setups like this. We know the mason (SSS) is not scum. I know im town, so there are three players left, one town, one wolf, and one vanilla. If I can call the vanilla correctly (Furc), then I can say that for sure the other two players are scum. We ALWAYS use process of elimination in this game, its just rare it catches scum flat out instead of catches a "one of these two" situation. Pretend for a minute that you are actually vanilla - you have a 67% chance of lynching scum if you throw a dart. If you call one player town correctly, its a 100% scum shot. You not realizing this probably means you are scum because you never had this train of thought, as scum has one other scum and two vanilla to ID.

I know what a "bah" post is, but you speaking for a dead player is odd. Especially given that last post, where he said BAH. Crazy subtly said his last thoughts in that post.

You are right, Crazy was telling me and Furc who are town to go lynch the scum that havent posted (you and tcl). See, I can be dense about reading way too much into a bah post too. I have played with Crazy before, he wouldnt do anything that is cheating, which this would be if it was intentional. Again you overlook the fact that anything that Crazy wanted to say, he could have posted the mason talk and had his living partner/backup post it today.

I really hate when people feel they have to announce to the world that they are town. If you are, I should be able to tell from your posts. But I can't. I also do not see scum in the posts of SSS and tclaw, both of whom didn't find it necessary to soft-claim.

SSS is not scum, that was proven by everyone else claiming not-mason. tcla gets the scum read based on what I said previously, about him going way to far into detail about his slight town read on DRK, and that he is the odd man out on giving people reads, defaulting him to scum.

Llama and furuclow are scum.

This is going to be great. Me-Furc town vs you-tcl scum. Lets do this.

Vote Toast

You are the wolf.

[LlamaFluff]

You want reasons you say?

Well you got them, I will stick with the Toast-Glass interactions to start and do chck-Glass later

Glass: Don't understand this wagon. Consists of a counter from Crazy based on "lack of evidence" for llama, then llama quickly hops on it, with others following.

This is the catchup post into the game, immediately Toast takes a shot at the entire Glass wagon, zeroing in on Crazy who is the town leader at this stage, and me who is the other person being attacked. The rest of the wagon is just ignored. The wagon gets explained to him, so we get this

Hmm good points. I'll have to ISO glass tonight.

So he goes look at Glass because the points against him are now good moving Glass to who knows where on his scumlist. We really never see any resolution for this ISO search though, he just drops it in hopes of it being forgotten about

Because I think llama is obvwolf and would rather have him lynched than glass?

Perfect way to keep suspicion on Glass but not vote him. Because I am the "better lynch" given the setup, it gives Toast the perfect reason to actively ignore Glass for as long as I am in the game, while still being able to distance and call him scum as much as he wants.

He does eventually vote Glass though, with quite a conditional to remove his vote

Glass has also failed to establish a good defense for himself.

So as soon as Glass starts shaping up, he can jump right back off him. In the meantime though he seems to go and make a lot of posts that really dont apply to the current gamestate. He also goes at takes a few shots at Furc in the meantime, preemptive case? So Glass gets to L-1, and Toast decides to unvote him so no one will hammer.

Instead of going back to Glass though, he again abandons the case and throws the vote on me, dropping back on the "wolf lynch is better" rhetoric, which is very interesting given that he is probably wolf with Glass. It was a way to look like he was doing what the other people wanted more (wolf lynch) while guarenteeing that his partner would be safe.

By the way, what changed between

Twilight phase last thoughts: Llama is likely town--scum wouldn't banter that much.

and

My issue with llama is that I find it hard to believe that he's scum with Glass. On the other hand, I was convinced that he was werewolf because of his want to search for mafia instead.

and

Llama and furuclow are scum.

You just slowly kept changing your opinion on me as I started calling you scum it seems.

[tclawren]

Just saying that I am here. BUT, I will not be doing anything until SSS posts at least once.

And just to make sure: @Furc: Are you just a regular townie? Your post wasn't as clear as the rest of ours regarding this. thanks. Regardless, could you tell us your reads? thanks.

[ToastyToast]

And using sheeping for defending someone is perhaps one of the dumbest things I've heard since being on this side.

Interactions between two players can both show that they are scum together, or NOT scum together. In this case, the way that Furc reacted to Glass being ran up was not how a partner to Glass would have reacted. He ignored the case on me by instead pushing on Glass when a bus would not have been necessary. I do not think they are scum together because of the sheep vote that Furc put on Glass. It was a weak vote that he probably wouldnt get much town credit for (like you arent giving him) and got his partner lynched, lose-lose situation.

So baaa sheep is less scummy than actually building up a case, ISO'ing, and being willing to look at a case you don't necessarily understand? I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. He was just like "WHEEE THIS ONE LOOKS GOOD!" I actually put time into my vote. And I was right.

Also, picking scum based off "process of elimination?" Thats BS that no one should actually listen to.

It works perfectly in open setups like this. We know the mason (SSS) is not scum. I know im town, so there are three players left, one town, one wolf, and one vanilla. If I can call the vanilla correctly (Furc), then I can say that for sure the other two players are scum. We ALWAYS use process of elimination in this game, its just rare it catches scum flat out instead of catches a "one of these two" situation. Pretend for a minute that you are actually vanilla - you have a 67% chance of lynching scum if you throw a dart. If you call one player town correctly, its a 100% scum shot. You not realizing this probably means you are scum because you never had this train of thought, as scum has one other scum and two vanilla to ID.

Your calling the vanilla incorrectly, your assuming mason would immediately claim he was a mason. Pretend for a minute that you are actually vanilla. If you call one player town incorrectly, YOUR FUCKED. Besides, by your logic, with process of elimination. I think SSS and tclaw are town. That makes you and furculow the obvious choices. Process of elimination is a useful tool, but it needs to be paired up with something more.

I know what a "bah" post is, but you speaking for a dead player is odd. Especially given that last post, where he said BAH. Crazy subtly said his last thoughts in that post.

You are right, Crazy was telling me and Furc who are town to go lynch the scum that havent posted (you and tcl). See, I can be dense about reading way too much into a bah post too. I have played with Crazy before, he wouldnt do anything that is cheating, which this would be if it was intentional. Again you overlook the fact that anything that Crazy wanted to say, he could have posted the mason talk and had his living partner/backup post it today.

Except that makes less sense; again, I pointed it out because your speaking for Crazy was odd. So I was like, where the hell did he say that?

I really hate when people feel they have to announce to the world that they are town. If you are, I should be able to tell from your posts. But I can't. I also do not see scum in the posts of SSS and tclaw, both of whom didn't find it necessary to soft-claim.

SSS is not scum, that was proven by everyone else claiming not-mason. tcla gets the scum read based on what I said previously, about him going way to far into detail about his slight town read on DRK, and that he is the odd man out on giving people reads, defaulting him to scum.

Did fur claim non-mason? Nope, he just said it was unprovable. And I think SSS is the mason, but you seem content in automatically confirming it so before anything happens.

This is going to be great. Me-Furc

town

scum vs you-tcl-SSS

scum

Town. Lets do this.

FTFY

Vote Toast

You are the wolf.

Vote: Llama

You are scum, make too many assumptions, use Crazy for backup when not much is actually there, still seem to be looking for wolf over mafia, and are too keen on auto-agreeing with other players. DIESCUMDIE