Beasts of the Sea wrote:Furcolow wrote:this wagon has had the amount of opposition I would expect from the 3 man team if Fonz is Gonnano's ally and is distancing
I'm going to keep my vote here, and hope that the 3 man team gets knocked down to 2 here and the Fonz is outted associatively through not wanting to place his vote on Gonnano even if he doesn't really believe the claim in his #1792
It's of note that Fonz is taking over the town and pushing them against me/protecting Gonnano, though so I could argue both sides of the coin.
With gonnano's flip I think Furcolow hit the nail on the head (bolded emphasis mine).
Yeah, this is a great point, apart from it being utterly untrue. I made my vote for Furc when there was only one vote on Gonnano, and six on smargaret. The idea that I pushed Furcolow 'to save Gonnano' does not jibe with even a cursory reading of the game. Considering that no-one new joined the Furc wagon after I did, it would also be a stretch to suggest that I 'took over the town.' When the gonanno wagon sprung up, I continued to push Furc because not one iota of my reason for voting him had gone- people who lie about their roles, and especially people who get caught out lying rather than coming clean, are overwhelmingly often scum, therefore they must be lynched as a policy. It's a strange world in which 'Fonz did not change his behaviour in reaction to a Gonnano wagon springing up' is an associative tell with Gonnano.
Before the Gonnano wagon came along, I stated that I found Gonnano scummy early on, but that overall I found the case on him to be somewhat overblown relative to say, DavidParker, who had done pretty much everything bad Gonnano did AND lied about his role.
Can I at least ask people this: if ThAd turns out to be scum, will people at least very strongly consider killing DP for 'clearing' him, then retracting it later when the danger had gone?
As for the claim, I've seen too many dumbass quicklynches in my recent town games to risk another one here, given that Gonnano claimed power. I mean, were you really expecting me to vote a claimed PR before he'd even given results, based mostly on flavor when we've seen just how effective trying to outguess the mod has been so far? Plus, people's reactions to claims are some of the best evidence you can get. I was in no mood to cut the day short before as many people as possible had commented. Finally, note that Gon flipped goon, not scum watcher, so a buddy would have known he didn't have real results to save him. Do you really think a buddy of Gonnano's there wouldn't have realized that he was going down, hard?
Beasts wrote:The Fonz wrote:To those advocating 'Bvoight and Gonnano' as suspects- would the alignment of either influence your view of the other? IE, do you think their interactions look scumbuddyish, or do you think each is a top suspect independent of the other?
Personally, Gonnano doesn't look that scummy. But Bvoight doesn't look scummy at all to me.
Fishing for relationships on people you don't find scummy? This is clearly trying to determine how to maneuver to benefit his and gonnano's team in the event that it heads that direction (collateral damage?).
Or, you know, blatantly obviously genuine scumhunting. When lots of people say 'Bvoight today, Gonnano tomorrow' there can be several things behind it. They can genuinely think they're scum and connected to each other. They can think they are both scum, but completely unconnected. And, in particular, they can be Gonnano buddies who are claiming to think Gonnano is scum with links to Bvoight, but looking to use a Bvoight town flip as an excuse to stop bussing their buddy. I was suspicious of people making these kind of statements because I had a town read on bvoight, therefore either the latter scenario or lining up lynches were both possible motivations for those making those kind of comments. I wanted to pin these players down.
Then, 1737 - 1739, his three posts are all just really slandering Furcolow based on past games, and the third comment is just trying to add icing on the cake to cement it as a legitimate alternative to the gonnano wagon.
This is disingenuous. People were meta defending Furcolow. I was pointing out that, of all the VI behaviour I have seen from him in the past (played two games with him, and read another as meta during one of those), I have never seen him lie about his role as town. I am quite happy to defend Furc when I think, in spite of his VI nature, he looks town. I was doing it during my early catchup posts, before he lied about his role, and I did it in Mafia in Mendo when Furc made his 'assuming scum have daytalk' townslip. The point I am making is that Furc is particularly antitown and scummy in this game, even for him. If we don't lynch him here, it's difficult to imagine what he could actually do that would lead anyone to ever vote him.
BoTS wrote:
Mothrax also advocates for his desire to see gonnano's flip above all else with no other commentary about the player slot otherwise, and this comment shortly after having declared confusion over Amrun/PI still being alive. Then mothrax said in the interest of deadlines he would be voting Amrun/PI...
Well, that comment was pretty thorough. More to the point, though, 'Is lurking, and not getting heat for it' is good town reasoning, I use it a lot. Generally, when there are multiple people committing a particular scummy act, and other players focus on some of them to the exclusion of others, that is an associative tell. It's the exact same reasoning Lowell used to kick off the Gonnano wagon yesterday.
ThAdmiral wrote:Feysel certainly did not provide all that much.
He has hardly voted
this entire game
.
Feysal's ISO 28 imho contained as much content as anything anyone else did all day.
Furcolow wrote:wow, two wagons i LOVE
glad this game is back open
fonz REPLACED JMJ. Remember that wagon on d1? I can't believe it died!
[/b]
You mean, a wagon on a player that was largely based on the fact that he wasn't posting much, then he got replaced? Yeah, why on Earth would that ever die.
