Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

[Zdenek]

I fully agree with about active lurking being a scumtell. Nevertheless you could have outlined his lurking in one or two sentences.

Ok. I dislike when people say that they have many comments or questions and then fail to provide them. I dislike when people feel the need to say that they will post later, and then when they do, they barely contribute to the game. Startransmission has done these things.

Run me through that process.

I wanted to pursue a lynch other than one of the two lurkers before the end of the day, so that takes LynchKing and Banana Stickers off the table for the time being.

I think Fatso is probably town because of his chattiness. I've explained why I think that you're probably town. So I don't want to lynch either of you today.

Sarahfish has done some scummy things and came under pressure for them. It's true that she's not scum hunting, but that could just be a sign of her newness. Also looking at her early and pointless evaluation of everyone, I am not seeing a scum motivation in it. If she was scum, I think she would have started working towards pushing a mislynch there. So my gut says town for now.

I think that Alnkpa's questions are genuine and that he is actually trying to determine people's alignments. So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for today too.

I don't think that pushing startransmission's lynch will be fruitful.

That leaves h3ll0, and he's scummy to boot.

Additionally, Zdenek, the first 'misrepresentation' you quoted isn't true at all. What h3ll0 said there seemed quite accurate.

Quote where I said that LynchKing was pro-town.

[Fatso]

Oh and Fatso, could you please rephrase

I was wondering if you had a response to this (I'm not asking for one, I was just wondering if you had one.):

Further, I am now a little concerned by your last posts that hadn't much content. Your arguing with Bulvious seemed over-the-top to me, especially as you were disputing over some dates which seemed rather unimportant to me. Could you explain why you had to clarify your date of posts more than one site?

That whole argument was very weird, and maybe it did get a bit over the top, but I think that's understandable seeing as neither of us had half an idea what the other was talking about. It finally got sorted out with a conversation between me and h3llo (that should be rather easy to find, but let me know if I should quote it). I believe Bulvious made the same mistake h3llo did (correct me if I'm wrong, Bulv).
Oh, and I was trying to clarify dates because we both thought the other was talking about a different post. If you go back and read the thing through, it might make more sense than it does here.

[Fatso]

I think Fatso is probably town because of his chattiness.

Actually, studies have shown that people talk more when they're lying.

[Fatso]

Fatso wrote:

Also, did you make the same mistake as h3llo a while back? Just want to make sure that's cleared up now.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

I was referring to this:

*Facepalm*

I read it as:

Um, Bulvious.(1)

and my posts weren't even in reference to you there...(2)

Where I though part (1) was your answer to sarahfish89.

Excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall.

[Fatso]

I know, I know, I just posted four times, but I think it's easier than creating a HUGE wallstripe post.

Unvote, Vote: sarahfish89

I might change back to BS if it comes to a policy lynch, but I was just thinking, and sarah really hasn't said anything useful the whole game. Seems the scummiest of all to me at the moment.

[Bulvious]

Perhaps h3ll0 uses 'pro-town' incorrectly but you DID say he was leaning town.

Additionally, you did not state why h3ll0 was scummy, not REALLY anyway.

Yes, I made the same 'mistake' though I'd hardly consider it a mistake. When someone asks a question and you post immediately after with an appropriate answer and lacking specification - expect to be misunderstood. You appear to be having some miscomm problems - which isn't very good in Mafia.

[Antihero]

Vote Count #6

Banana Stickers - 1 (startransmission)
Fatso - 1 (alnkpa)
h3ll0 - 1 (Zdenek)
lynchking - 1 (sarahfish89)
sarahfish89 - 3 (h3ll0, Bulvious, Fatso)

Not Voting: Banana Stickers, lynchking

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Deadline is April 12th.

[Fatso]

Perhaps h3ll0 uses 'pro-town' incorrectly but you DID say he was leaning town.

Additionally, you did not state why h3ll0 was scummy, not REALLY anyway.

Yes, I made the same 'mistake' though I'd hardly consider it a mistake. When someone asks a question and you post immediately after with an appropriate answer and lacking specification - expect to be misunderstood. You appear to be having some miscomm problems - which isn't very good in Mafia.

This isn't directed at me, right?
@Antihero: Has Banana Stickers been prodded?

[Antihero]

Oh, wow, BS hasn't even posted since I left.

Yeah, it's time to prod.

EDIT: I see the V/LA, and will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that "Sunday" means today. She will be getting a "quasi-prod" today and an official one in 72 hours.

[Fatso]

Thanks.

[h3ll0]

I think that he's town because early on he agreed that you were probably town. This is a town-tell because it's a sacrifice for scum to say that they think that someone is town; it means that it will be harder for them to push their lynch. The only things that I haven't liked from him, I've recently pointed out.

I think the reverse is more true. It is easier for scums to declare who they feel is town, as they know who is town.

The question was different. The first one was what would you do if you had to hammer early. Whereas mine was about actually lynching a lurker at the end of the day.

And what difference does that make? People who answered the first question will answer your question in the same exact manner.

I never said pro-town. Misrep. 1.

You said that he has leaning town. How can one be leaning town if his actions are not pro-town in the slightest way?

I am not fence-sitting, but I know from experience that it probably won't happen. Misrep 2.

"Fence-sitting" was probably a bad choice of word. Lack of action is more like the correct phase. But your reply is valid in either case.

[h3ll0]

@mod: Could we have a deadline extension?

[Antihero]

@mod: Could we have a deadline extension?

As I cannot really find a justification for one, no.

Carry on, please.

[Zdenek]

I think the reverse is more true. It is easier for scums to declare who they feel is town, as they know who is town.

Their possession of that knowledge does not give them any motivation to do it.

And what difference does that make? People who answered the first question will answer your question in the same exact manner.

How was I supposed to predict that? There is no reason to think that someone's willingness to lynch a lurker early in the game implies that they still would be later on.

You said that he has leaning town. How can one be leaning town if his actions are not pro-town in the slightest way?

The fact that I think he is town has to do with the fact that he was being careless, not because he did anything pro-town at all. I'm not saying that it is a strong town-tell.

h3ll0 is arguing for the sake of arguing. More rope here.

[Fatso]

I find when there's a large-ish argument (my definition being three people or more for arguing for at least three days), at least one person in the argument tends to be scum, leading me to believe that h3llo, Bulvious, or Zdenek, is scum (they seem to be the ones with the most involvement in the argument I'm referring too (if it hasn't become evident to you what argument that is *cough*lynchking&BS*cough* then read the thread).
The question is, which one? I don't think it's two, I'm thinking the other scum might be one of our two resident lurkers or sarahfish (most likely the latter). I currently have no good reads on any of the three: h3llo has made some good points that would suggest town(I like his first point in #185 especially), but he's perhaps also buddied a bit, which might suggest scum, but could also just be agreement. Bulvious hasn't had anything that I would consider really convincingly town, but he has done some fair scumhunting. This goes either way for me, as good scum will try to look like their scum hunting, and I've known some people who do this really well. Zdenek has said some untrue things and made a few mistakes, but he sort of comes across to me as actually trying to defend himself for the good of the town. I need to reread once I have some homework out of the way.
I think one of these three is scum, but I'm not sure which, so I'm keeping my vote on sarahfish right now. Thoughts?

[Zdenek]

h3llo has made some good points that would suggest town(I like his first point in #185 especially)

Why does having the knowledge that someone is town, give scum motivation to call someone town?

Zdenek has said some untrue things and made a few mistakes

What?

[Fatso]

I only have a minute here, then I have to go, so I'll answer the last question first, and get to the first one later:
You have said some things that, in my mind, are untrue or mistakes. I don't have time to go back and quote, but for instance, saying that h3llo was "obviously buddying" to Bulvious. I don't think this was the case at all. He was

possibly

buddying, not obviously buddying.

[sarahfish89]

Computer asses? That's an odd way to put it, but ok.
I'd like to see people's thoughts in general on Bulvious (not if you've recently posted them of course). Not that I think he's scum, but (and maybe I'm just hallucinogenic) it seems to me that quite a few people have labeled him town from the start (sort of a general feeling here, maybe I'm completely wrong). The only reason I say this is because I always get suspicious of anyone who's labeled town without having claimed cop or something.

Woop, spelling mistake.
From what I can see, I think Bulvious is leaning town since they are doing a good job of getting people involved and has been scum hunting a lot.

I think Fatso is probably town because of his chattiness.

Scum can be quite chatty but it's hard to up an act when posting and scum hunting so scum usually don't post a lot.

Yet another post without any scumhunting from Sarah. I look forward you hunting a bit in the very near future.

I'm sorry, but I wont be able to post much today, will look and point out anything I see scummy.

[Bulvious]

Yet ANOTHER post lacking ANY scumhunting. You're AWFUL town - if you are town. You NEVER have time to post anything and you NEVER find anything scummy of note.


Fatso, as far as your observation saying one of the three of us is scum - isn't that untrue as well? Give me a few examples where this has happened. From MY experience you're just making something up in order to appeal to people.

Still, I don't know if it'd be Zdenek or h3ll0 who would be the scum IF you were accurate. But that's not really assuming much. That's more like saying "Which one appears more scummy out of the three." While I can SEE why scum would want to spark arguments - they wouldn't do it in a way that included themselves. I'd probably put my vote on h3ll0 if I were to choose one out of the three of us. He's sort of made himself to appear my friend - something scum would want to do in a three way conversation. This might appeal to my ethos and pit me against Zdenek, 2v1. But as it is, that's just sort of a moot observation in my book.

[Fatso]

Yet ANOTHER post lacking ANY scumhunting. You're AWFUL town - if you are town. You NEVER have time to post anything and you NEVER find anything scummy of note.


Fatso, as far as your observation saying one of the three of us is scum - isn't that untrue as well? Give me a few examples where this has happened. From MY experience you're just making something up in order to appeal to people.

Still, I don't know if it'd be Zdenek or h3ll0 who would be the scum IF you were accurate. But that's not really assuming much. That's more like saying "Which one appears more scummy out of the three." While I can SEE why scum would want to spark arguments - they wouldn't do it in a way that included themselves. I'd probably put my vote on h3ll0 if I were to choose one out of the three of us. He's sort of made himself to appear my friend - something scum would want to do in a three way conversation. This might appeal to my ethos and pit me against Zdenek, 2v1. But as it is, that's just sort of a moot observation in my book.

I can't really give examples. This is sort of one of my general rules of play in the real world. If you disagree, that's fine, I'm just trying to use my past experience to the town's advantage. I should note that I do think it's possible that I'm wrong in this case, seeing as the people I normally play with do play differently.

[startransmission]

Reading up on this and another game, will post shortly.

[Fatso]

And I mean,

very

differently.

[Fatso]

And also (directed at Bulvious), how can you say that's an observation? I wasn't saying the three of you were scummy, THAT would be an observation. I was saying one of you was probably scum. And how can you say it's untrue? The only way you could say that knowingly is if you were lying scum. Also, if I was trying to make something up to appeal to people, don't you think I would choose something that didn't potentially attack three people?

[alnkpa]

Seeing this conversation almost came to a halt, I'd like to pose some questions in order to let it stay alive.
Fatso, do you really think that you can project from a real world game of mafia to this board? In which way?
H3llo, do you agree with Fatso that one of the three mentioned by him (which includes you) might be scum? Who? Why?
Zdenek, would you like to defense against Fatso's arguments? How?

[h3ll0]

Their possession of that knowledge does not give them any motivation to do it.

By declaring who is townie, they can avoid making cases on the said player. And when the said player is mislynched, they can just jump and mudsling on the players who made the case. This is good enough motivation, in my opinion.

How was I supposed to predict that? There is no reason to think that someone's willingness to lynch a lurker early in the game implies that they still would be later on.

Either you are not paying attention to the game (1) to realise that no real development occurred between Bulvious question and your question (in other words, no one particularly scummy popped up), or that you are asking questions just for the sake of doing so(2). (1) means that you are playing badly, (2) means that you are active lurking. Which is it?

The fact that I think he is town has to do with the fact that he was being careless, not because he did anything pro-town at all. I'm not saying that it is a strong town-tell.

You mean to say that it is townish behaviour to be careless? This is bullshit. Both town and mafia can and will make mistakes. Lynchking making a mistake does not make him any more town then any other player.

h3ll0 is arguing for the sake of arguing. More rope here.

Seriously? Am I suppose to stay quiet while you make your "case" on me?