Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:32 am

Post by h3ll0 »

alnkpa wrote:H3llo, do you agree with Fatso that one of the three mentioned by him (which includes you) might be scum? Who? Why?
I don't agree with what Fatso said. It is also possible that both scums are amongst the three of us, or that none of us are scum. I find it difficult to agree with Fatso, especially since he doesn't/can't back up this point with example. And that what he said is based on real life mafia, which is much too different for him to draw a parallel to.
Antihero wrote:
As I cannot really find a justification for one, no.

Carry on, please.
Is it unjustified to ask for a deadline extension, considering that two players were inactive for almost 2 weeks and that they weren't prodded in a timely manner? And that one of the player is still MIA, while the one who did responded to the prod asked if he should be replaced?
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:24 am

Post by Bulvious »

Fatso, if it isn't untrue then it isn't helpful and it isn't founded upon anything. Your experience on forums is practically null, your lacking of examples also doesn't help.

Now, since you're saying it's "Possible" then fine. It IS POSSIBLE one of us is scum, or maybe even two of us. But it's also POSSIBLE that none of us are scum and that the other 6 players in the game might be the scum instead. And that's why the statement means something other than the levy more weight on the argument that you have no stance in. To me, that is scummy - more scummy than three people arguing, that is.
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:44 am

Post by Zdenek »

Fatso wrote: You have said some things that, in my mind, are untrue or mistakes. I don't have time to go back and quote, but for instance, saying that h3llo was "obviously buddying" to Bulvious. I don't think this was the case at all. He was possibly buddying, not obviously buddying.
To me the buddying was obvious.
Alnkpa wrote: Zdenek, would you like to defense against Fatso's arguments? How?
Which one? If you mean the one that there is likely to be one scum in an argument between three people, then all I have to say is that his claim is ridiculous.
h3ll0 wrote: By declaring who is townie, they can avoid making cases on the said player. And when the said player is mislynched, they can just jump and mudsling on the players who made the case. This is good enough motivation, in my opinion.
Do you think that is what Bulvious was doing?
h3ll0 wrote: Either you are not paying attention to the game (1) to realise that no real development occurred between Bulvious question and your question (in other words, no one particularly scummy popped up), or that you are asking questions just for the sake of doing so(2). (1) means that you are playing badly, (2) means that you are active lurking. Which is it?
You are being obtuse. The two questions were different: I was actually advocating for a lurker lynch.
h3ll0 wrote: You mean to say that it is townish behaviour to be careless? This is bullshit. Both town and mafia can and will make mistakes. Lynchking making a mistake does not make him any more town then any other player.
I am not accusing LynchKing of making a mistake, I am just just saying that he said something that could be interpreted as scummy, and I suspect that scum would have avoided saying it. Could I be wrong about him? Of course. He's essentially posted nothing, but if it came down to lynching him or BS, I'd prefer BS.
h3ll0 wrote: Seriously? Am I suppose to stay quiet while you make your "case" on me?
No, but if you were town, you'd keep scum hunting, but instead you've given that up.

I still want more h3ll0 votes.
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:08 am

Post by sarahfish89 »

Bulvious wrote:Yet ANOTHER post lacking ANY scumhunting. You're AWFUL town - if you are town. You NEVER have time to post anything and you NEVER find anything scummy of note.
Hmm, your're right, well I am going to ask for a replacement for me.

I'm a sorry to the town and the rest of the players for not being active enough or finding anything scummy. Bulvious is right, that I am being very anti-town so I shall ask for a replacement (and no, I'm not just doing this because Bulvious post that) RL is stopping me from being active. Good luck to my replacement and to the town. I will be lurking, watching games and getting tips. But I will only join a game until I'm sure I can be active.

Mod, please can you find a replacement for me, thank you.
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:41 am

Post by Fatso »

alnkpa wrote:Seeing this conversation almost came to a halt, I'd like to pose some questions in order to let it stay alive.
Fatso, do you really think that you can project from a real world game of mafia to this board? In which way?
H3llo, do you agree with Fatso that one of the three mentioned by him (which includes you) might be scum? Who? Why?
Zdenek, would you like to defense against Fatso's arguments? How?
Not really sure what your question to me means here.
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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:42 am

Post by Fatso »

Unvote
"Don't shuffle that deck, it's stacked!"

-Fatso
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:43 am

Post by Antihero »

h3ll0 wrote:Is it unjustified to ask for a deadline extension, considering that two players were inactive for almost 2 weeks and that they weren't prodded in a timely manner? And that one of the player is still MIA, while the one who did responded to the prod asked if he should be replaced?
I was away at the time of lynchking's absense, so I didn't get to prod him; but he's asked for replacement anyway.

BS hasn't even picked up her reminder; if she fails to do so for another 24 hours, she will be replaced.

lynchking and sarahfish have requested replacement; hopefully I will get someone to fill those soon.

Also, I'll think I will be extending the deadline by a couple days.
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:28 am

Post by chkflip »

I'm the
miller
new lynchking, KING OF LYNCHES... or something like that. My interpretation of the last few pages as I can; I'm at uni right now.
"Fuck you. I opened up my heart to you and you stabbed it a thousand times." - Gamma, to me, right before confessing to being the town vig and murdering my scum partner N1.
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:32 am

Post by Antihero »

chkflip replaces lynchking, obviously. Welcome him.
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:36 am

Post by chkflip »

WELCOME ME WITH
GIFTS
QUESTIONS.

No, seriously, it'll help me. And you.
"Fuck you. I opened up my heart to you and you stabbed it a thousand times." - Gamma, to me, right before confessing to being the town vig and murdering my scum partner N1.
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:17 am

Post by startransmission »

Bulvious wrote:After March 28th, we've been discussing policy lynching, BS, and Sarahfish's experience.

What information has that garnered for us?
Are we any closer to finding scum because of it? Seemed like more of a delay to me.
Player's opinions on policy lynches is pertinent. It hasn't become such a source of conversation that it detracts from anything else. BS was a player that warranted some pressure. There are plenty of inactive players in this game, my vote was on her randomly at first, but after her vla was over it made sense to keep my vote on her in hopes of pressure. Other players felt that she was the scummier of the lurkers and pressured her as well. It's all moot now, but again, none of that detracted from the game. The fact that it resulted in nothing is circumstantial.

As for SF. I laid out why I was suspicious of her. I questioned her. I wanted to see how she reacted to see if my hunch was correct. To see if she made a slip or was legit. My feeling coming away from that interaction is that I cautiously consider her to be town. That's important, if a wagon were to be developed against her I would not jump on it for the reasons that players currently hold against her. I would argue that my interaction with SF was informative, and may have repercussions later in the game.

Bulvious wrote:I don't really care what you'd RATHER I do. Perhaps I'd RATHER you not assume I was excluding myself from those three or so days where we accomplished nothing. I was as guilty as others. My accusation was as much of a splash of water in the face of my own daze as I hope it was for you. And I find it awfully difficult to believe you TRULY think I haven't begun scum-hunting.
I understand. I just disagree that we accomplished nothing, and I bristled at your accusation that I was keeping discussion off topic. Again, what topic was I preventing players from discussing?
Bulvious wrote:
Why are you asking this question to h3llo? It seems more of an observation than it is a question with the intent of garnering information. The worthlessness of the question is bolstered by the fact that you follow your question with your own opinion. It's a leading question.
Actually, I asked two questions, I never gave my own opinion. Perhaps the second question was a tad on the biased side - but I'm no journalist, either.
It wasn't the question itself or the fact that it came off as rhetorical. It was that you directed it at h3llo, and it was leading. The response from h3llo didn't go a long way to assuage the suspicion of buddying/partnership.
Bulvious wrote:BS is a dead fish now, and lingering around the pond watching her float and prodding it with a stick isn't going to make the clock stop until the fish decides to move again - which to me means we should move on.
While the pressure on her was not the distraction you make it out to be, and was in fact appropriate, at this point you're right.
Bulvious wrote:Accusing you and Fatso? When did I say that? I asked if it COULD be so. I was asking what h3ll0 thought about it, and I find it odd that you try to invalidate my questions merely because they might not have the best answers in regards to you.
As I've said, the question was leading. It implied that Fatso and I are in cahoots to prevent town from useful discourse. You directly ask the leading question to h3llo, who agrees without question. Again, the appearance of a partnership grows.
Bulvious wrote:Needless to say, I find it VERY interesting how upset you seemed to get when my focal point changed to him from BS. You didn't even argue the credibility of anything I said. You just seemed to question my intent rather than fact.
Who you have your attention on is not what upsets me, as I hope I've made clear.
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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:12 pm

Post by startransmission »

Zdenek wrote:
ST wrote: Either you're not paying attention to what I'm saying or you're making a clumsy attempt to feign aggressiveness.
Then why don't you tell me what you are saying, because you said:
ST wrote: I have some questions to ask tomorrow.
and then you didn't say anything about things that happened prior to your previous post.
I say I'm going to ask questions the next day, and you attack me for not asking them immediately. The keyword in my post was
tomorrow
. And when tomorrow came, I asked my questions. I didn't really have anything further to add on what happened prior to that post, as prior to that post most of what was going on I was engaged in directly.
Zdenek wrote:Anyway, it is doubtful that we'll be lynching the IC today.
Not without a case, which you haven't got. Your accusations are false and hypocritical.
Zdenek wrote:
Alnkpa wrote: I twice asked you to clarify the following:
Zdenek wrote: Startransmission is scum for active lurking.
Twice I got no answer. Anything to say to that?
I've always thought that active lurking is a pretty good reason to vote someone. What more do you want, an essay about why active lurking is scummy, a wall quoting startransmission's posts that show him not contributing? I can do both, but I fail to see the point. You can go look at his ISO and judge for yourself.
The problem here is that I have not been active lurking. And if I were guilty of that, you would be guiltier. I'd invite any players who feel you may have a point to do what you suggest. ISO both of us, and compare post count and post content. I know I beat you in the former, and believe I beat you in the latter as well. The value of my posts are fine to question, but not contributing? I have questioned and engaged far more than you have.
Zdenek wrote:
Alnkpa wrote: I fully agree with about active lurking being a scumtell. Nevertheless you could have outlined his lurking in one or two sentences.
Ok. I dislike when people say that they have many comments or questions and then fail to provide them. I dislike when people feel the need to say that they will post later, and then when they do, they barely contribute to the game. Startransmission has done these things.
Either you're terribly ignorant, trying to get a rise out of me, or a liar.
Zdenek wrote:I wanted to pursue a lynch other than one of the two lurkers before the end of the day, so that takes LynchKing and Banana Stickers off the table for the time being.
So I'm not one of the two lurkers now?
Zdenek wrote:I think Fatso is probably town because of his chattiness.
Alignment has nothing to do with chattiness, but I'm fine with it giving you a good gut feeling.
Zdenek wrote:Sarahfish has done some scummy things and came under pressure for them.
Hrm. And where has that pressure come from? Who has been engaging and questioning her?
Zdenek wrote:It's true that she's not scum hunting, but that could just be a sign of her newness.


An important thing to ascertain, don't you think? But according to you me trying to do so is not contributing, and according to Bulvious it's me trying to keep things off topic.
Zdenek wrote: I don't think that pushing startransmission's lynch will be fruitful.
Because you don't think I'm scum? Because you have no case? Because my lynch wouldn't be informative? If you have a case on me, my IC status won't mean anything.
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:17 pm

Post by startransmission »

Sorry about the chain posting, have to catch up from the weekend. Welcome chkflp, I look forward to your opinions.
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:28 pm

Post by Antihero »

Vote Count #7


Banana Stickers - 1 (startransmission)
Fatso - 1 (alnkpa)
h3ll0 - 1 (Zdenek)
chkflip - 1 (sarahfish89)
sarahfish89 - 2 (h3ll0, Bulvious)

Not Voting: Banana Stickers, chkflip, Fatso

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Deadline is April 12th.
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:43 pm

Post by Fatso »

chkflip, you like to cross things out, don't you?
alnkpa, do you still find me scummy (I know I've asked this before)? If so, why? Because there's really no reason voting for me if you don't have a case.
"Don't shuffle that deck, it's stacked!"

-Fatso
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:49 pm

Post by Fatso »

Also, can someone explain to me why people don't think it's possible to use experience from many, many, many, games in the real world online?
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:31 pm

Post by Bulvious »

You're in a crowd of people and you notice someone falls over dead. You call it out to everyone and point it out. Of course, you don't KNOW they're dead so you try your first aid and what have you, everything is done, yet people linger because you continue to give your attention to it, and because they feel it's worth their attention.

It's less of a "We prevented..." and more of a "We didn't...."

We didn't PREVENT progress. We did not progress. And I still don't think the pressure on BS was rewarding what-so-ever. We accomplished finding out it was moot in recent days - but that's it.
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:39 pm

Post by Fatso »

Why are the people who say we focused too long on pressuring BS still focusing on it?
"Don't shuffle that deck, it's stacked!"

-Fatso
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:53 pm

Post by startransmission »

Bulvious wrote:We didn't PREVENT progress. We did not progress. And I still don't think the pressure on BS was rewarding what-so-ever. We accomplished finding out it was moot in recent days - but that's it.
I won't argue that the BS pressure didn't wind up pretty much worthless, but it was still worth doing. And BS wasn't my focus, SF was. My vote was on BS already from the RVS so it was natural to leave it there- all things considered. I don't think town spent oodles of time and effort on her, people merely voiced their concerns. A vote was cast, that's not without it's value.
Fatso wrote:Also, can someone explain to me why people don't think it's possible to use experience from many, many, many, games in the real world online?
I've never actually played in RL, so I can't say how any similarities/differences there are. They
are
different, so despite what RL experience you have you should temper it with the knowledge that things may be a touch different here. Hell, online mafia is a different sack of kittens from site to site, let alone RL and online. But yeah, I'm sure your experience won't be without its benefits.
Fatso wrote:Why are the people who say we focused too long on pressuring BS still focusing on it?
Nobody is focusing on BS right now.
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:33 pm

Post by Antihero »

Workdawg replaces sarahfish89. Welcome him!
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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:49 pm

Post by Workdawg »

Hello all. I've been catching up. I saw the call for a replacement in the newbie queue and PM'd our glorious mod, then started reading. I at about page 3 right now, so I'm getting there.

I'll give you all a quick intro I suppose in the mean time.
startransmission wrote: 1. What's your Mafia experience?
2. What's your favorite band?
3. What role/alignment do you prefer?
4. Do you find it harder finding scum, or convincing other people that you've found scum (the latter assuming you correctly identified someone as scum)?
1. This is my second game ever... first one was Newbie 1052 where it came down to LYLO with me stuck between two SE players, I picked wrong and town lost :(
2. I'm really digging Rise Against lately, though my tastes are quite broad. I recently went and saw Crash Anthem (formerly Skywynd) in concert (local band here in MN) and they rock pretty hard too.
3. I was VT in my only other game, so I can't really comment on what I prefer. I think a power role would be pretty cool though, at least having a little bit of insider knowledge (after N1 anyway).
4. If you happen to read 1052 for meta, you'll see that I was TERRIBAD at finding scum :( I got incorrect reads on everyone, lol. I learned A LOT in that game and I feel like I know what to look for now, but I guess we'll see. When I did find someone I thought was scummy, I managed to make sound arguments for them though, so there is that.

Hmm, what else. I'm usually pretty active. I have a desk job where I tend to get busy in waves. So there will be days when I post multiple times per day, but then days where I only post at night... but I should be able to post at least once a day in most cases.

Also, I tend to post walls, sorry in advance.
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:03 pm

Post by Fatso »

Well, well, well. A fellow Minnesotan.
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:11 pm

Post by Workdawg »

Haha, I just noticed that while catching up. (Page 5 now)

F'in mosquitos...

Where ya from, Fatso? I'm in a suburb of the cities.
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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:00 pm

Post by Fatso »

About an hour north-eastish of the cities. A place nobody's ever heard of.
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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:47 pm

Post by Workdawg »

Woah.... my head's spinning from reading all that... I'm going to have to reread it to really gather my thoughts together. It's hard keeping who is who straight in the first few pages when I have to read them all at once rather than as they are posted. My initial thoughts are this though...

sarahfish (my slot) - you can thank me for taking over at any time, I accept donations via Paypal if you are so inclined... lol. Her posts were incredibly hard to understand and she didn't help out at much at all. I aim to fix that ASAP!

My initial feelings on Fatso are that he's newb town, through and through. He made the newbie move of "conforming" I guess and giving in to the will of everyone else. He was questioned over it, but I think he held up pretty well. That whole confusion about what post Fatso was referring to, WTFIDONTEVENKNOW.

Zdenek is a player that I'm a bit suspicious of. All of his posts are very "succinct" as he put it. It gives an air of aggression or stuck-up-ness to his posts, I feel. Certainly not a scum-tell by any means, it just kind of rubs me the wrong way.

There rest of my mind is just a giant cluster right now.

A couple closing remarks

UNVOTE:

About lynching a lurker (active or not), I tend to agree with this policy, but ONLY if there isn't a consensus otherwise. If it comes down to it, lynching a lurker is better than a no-lynch simply because an even number of players is usually a bad place for town to be, IMO.

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