Newbie 1087: Welcome To The Jungle (Game Over)

KittyMo · Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:05 pm

@@ Tasky: Bolded orange is very hard on my eyes and I would prefer if you used a different color. Of course you don't have to listen to me, but I would love you forever if you did!

Newbies, I'm writing this for you!

Hi all! I'm KittyMo and I'm your IC (this title means, in essence, that I'm your role model & guide for learning to play the particular flavor of mafia played on MafiaScum.) If you've played any kind of mafia before, I guarantee we play it a little bit differently than you're accustomed to. As part of being an IC, I

will not lie to you about typical or proper play, game theory, etc. in order to suit my personal win condition

. ICing is more important than my Role PM's win condition! There are several other experienced players here (RayFrost, Dekes, DarlaBlueEyes) that you can learn from, but they are not bound to the same contract that I am.

Having patience, asking questions (please, ask me!), thinking critically, and learning from your mistakes and the mistakes of others are crucial qualities for mafia. Additionally, having a background in psychology will help you a ton.

But, the best way I know of for learning how to play, is to read! Get acquainted with the wiki (which is a bit outdated in many cases, but still a good tool to start off with.) Spending some time looking at all the links in this section will be good use of your time.

Another awesome thing to read is

Mafia games!

How will you know how real scum act if you haven't seen them in action?

Take these 2 newbie games for instance. Scumhunt along with the town.
Game #1 and Game #2.
I'd love it if you'd post your answers to the following questions after reading one or both of those games, but I'm not requiring you to.

1. What good plays did certain players make?
2. What mistakes did they make?
3. Were you right about who the scum were?
4. Were you right about who the power roles were?
5. Do you think they should've lynched quicker or waited longer before they decided to lynch people?
6. How did different scum players act from one another?
(Note: These games are on the quicker side of newbie games -- ours tend to last about 18-20 pages on average.)

If you don't have the time or patience to read through at least one of those games and skim the wiki, I doubt you'll have the time or patience for playing this game!

I don't want to bombard you with too much information immediately, so this is your introduction. I'm looking forward to this game, and I hope you all are as well.

KittyMo · Post Post #6 (isolation #1) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:07 pm

Oh, and before you forget, add this game to your bookmarks at the bottom of the page. It's much easier to check games from your bookmarks than to remember what number of game you signed up for. =)

KittyMo · Post Post #75 (isolation #2) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:54 pm

jindori wrote:
Unvote vote

Kittymo
because voting for rayfrost or toxic is confusing. So better off with a rand.

Finding your own path is good, young Padawan. But, why is it confusing? Is there a particular reason it's difficult to form a stance on them?

Twistedspoon wrote:
RayFrost wrote: Alternatively: KittyMo's a sparkly, glittering, cute little kitty. Why would you ever want to kill her? SCUM!
Emotional blackmail eh? I like this wagon already

RayFrost wrote:Cuz I'm town.
lsdfkjmfkcvl;
*rage*

...Is all of this serious? If so, could you please elaborate on your second...err, statement.

Dekes wrote:
Unvote; Vote: toxic

That's how you do it, folks.

Making unneccessarily vague posts is the key to victory? I'm not quite so sure about that.

toxic wrote:There's nothing to explain. I was acting silly. RayFrost was doing it, nobody cared. I do it and I have to explain myself? That doesn't make sense. And do you know what it means when things don't make sense?

Were you being silly because RayFrost was? Also, if you don't like being asked why you do what you're doing, I expect you're not going to like this game. The other players in this game are trying to understand your motivations. Additionally, can you offer evidence for why it makes a person more likely to be scum if they don't make sense to you?

ajolin wrote:
Actually, I'm fairly sure Tu Quoque Is more of a "You are a hypocrite, so anything you say is automatically wrong." He was saying that because RayFrost was doing it without consequence that he could do it as well. Similar logical fallacies, but not exactly the same. I would also like to point out that this is getting a bit into "srz bzns" as Dekes had said, and it's the first day in a newbie game. All that said...

UNVOTE, VOTE:Toxic

If you're concerned about getting into "srz bzns" and defending Toxic, can you explain the thought process behind voting him? You seem to be fence sitting.

David Xanatos wrote: Personally leaning towards Toxic but not comfortable with casting a L-1 vote.. still here and watching proceedings..

vote David Xanatos

Is there a reason you can't be voting/pressuring someone else? What are your thoughts on the "proceedings" thus far? How sure are you, exactly, of Toxic's guilt?

KittyMo · Post Post #78 (isolation #3) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:26 pm

David Xanatos wrote:Kitty > Casting my vote wouldn't be simple pressure, it would leave him open (if my/our suspicions are misplaced) to a hammer vote. It's far too early to be confident enough in my suspicions to bring it to L-1.

I asked (or meant to ask) why you're not pressuring anyone else if you think he's being adequately pressured currently.

David Xanatos wrote:Exactly? 76.34% at time of writing. If I must cast though, then I will, but as I said, I am not one for leaving it open to a hammer..

I'm surprised how certain you are. Can you explain the top 3 scummy things he's done?

KittyMo · Post Post #115 (isolation #4) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:23 am

Twistedspoon wrote: there was no reason to tell us that you're town so early unless you're paranoid scum

This is a lie, because if you really believed that you would be voting him and not asking him apathetic questions and voting someone else.

Twisted wrote: ray's just annoying me, that's all.

It's bad play to attack players because they annoy you. I understand that if players annoy you, it's more difficult to read them, but there's no reason to be making such silly statements as you're making.

David: Toxic is at L-3 currently. Is there a reason you're not voting him?

Spoiler: The Toxic Case - @David

I flatly disagree with the Toxic-Ray connection, but I'd like to know why Ray thinks Toxic is town. (Also, Ray, please never use that color of green in my sight again.

)

Voided: What's wrong with rushing into a vote? You can always just vote & find out what it brings out afterward.

+ Is there a specific question you can ask the people voting Twisted as to why he's scummy? It's hard for anyone to help you to understand if you just say you "kinda understand."

KittyMo · Post Post #117 (isolation #5) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:53 am

Twistedspoon wrote:
KittyMo wrote:
Twistedspoon wrote: there was no reason to tell us that you're town so early unless you're paranoid scum
This is a lie, because if you really believed that you would be voting him and not asking him apathetic questions and voting someone else.
something is a lie because I don't believe it myself?
That's interesting logic.

Okay, I don't understand your response to this at all. If telling a lie is defined as the deliberate act of deviating from the truth in speech, then how could you be lying if you stated something you believed to be true?

Twistedspoon wrote:I find toxic scummier at the moment. That's all
KittyMo wrote: It's bad play to attack players because they annoy you. I understand that if players annoy you, it's more difficult to read them, but there's no reason to be making such silly statements as you're making.
my statements aren't silly

'my logic doesn't revolve around 'cuz I'm town' as another player's does

My point is that saying things like

Spoiler: see here

is silly because the only logical explanation for what you are saying is that you are joking around a lot, in which case, why does it annoy you that

he

is joking around a lot?

I apologize in advance if it appears that I've misrepped you; I'm fairly confused.

KittyMo · Post Post #129 (isolation #6) » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:29 am

I don't have time to make a real post today. I'll see you all tomorrow.

KittyMo · Post Post #169 (isolation #7) » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:08 pm

In my experience, the less talk there is in thread about power roles before lylo, the easier it is for power roles to stay hidden, which is very important to the well-being of the town. I strongly advise the curtailing of discussion about power roles.

Dekes wrote:- KittyMo: Quick question. Why do you put things into spoiler tags that are a) obviously relevant to your post and b) include your own responses instead of simple rehashings of old things? It's really irritating.

I don't mean to seem irritating or repetetive at all. I try to group long quoted sections into spoiler tags so that my posts are more easily readable. I try to speak concisely, and therefore don't appreciate it when people skim my posts.

ajolin

~ Socially acceptable self-votes as a discussion-starting tactic typically occur within the first couple of pages. Otherwise, they appear from scum that feels they've been completely outted (but only in specific situations where it will aid their team to curb town discussion) or to prevent a deadline no lynch. From what I can tell, your vote doesn't fit any of these situations. Can you elaborate on why you're self-voting?

Twistedspoon, if you could respond to my last content post that would be greatly helpful.

I'm going to agree with Dekes that nothing Voidedmafia has done thus far has been particularly pro-town.

Please read and respond to the spoiler section below, Voided.

Spoiler: Voidedmafia Questioning

Ray, you should really work on some of those null reads.

KittyMo · Post Post #213 (isolation #8) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:28 pm

I haven't had much of a chance to post today, so I'm here with a few passing thoughts. Like Twisted, I probably won't be around much Thursday, either. I'll try to get more regular posts in. =)

As your IC, I would like to make sure that newbies are taking into account when reading experienced players the fact that we know how to act pro-town and thus tend to be better at being seen as town as either alignment. This is not to say that experienced players must be looked upon with the utmost scrutiny at all times, but it's just something to keep in mind throughout your career.

Voided, I'm a bit confused how you seemed so confused and unsure of how to act during your first few posts, but have recently changed in style a lot. When did you feel like you gained reigns on this game? How much mafia have you played in the past?

ajolin wrote:I wanted to know if it you could kill yourself.

I still don't quite understand this. If you wanted to know, why didn't you just ask? Did you think that self-voting would automatically kill you, and if so, why would you actually test that?

toxic wrote: You are now confirmed scum.

How confirmed?

KittyMo · Post Post #235 (isolation #9) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:13 pm

ajolin, it is extremely anti-town to hammer someone without allowing them to claim their role. If he turns out to be a power role, the entire town is going to be very frustrated. A quickhammer like that in non-newbie games is completely socially unacceptable and will get you vigged or very high on the lynch list. Never do that again.

Actually, here is a post made in one of my completed games by a respected site member that outlines, basically, how claiming and power roles typically work on this site.

Zorblag wrote: I'm going to start with some rules of thumb that I like a lot for the current newbie setup. There are no absolute rules in mafia and others might disagree about some of them (and I'm happy to discuss them so long as we don't detract from the game itself by doing it) but I'm a fairly traditional/conservative player (you'll see a contrast of Albert B. Rampage and myself so far as that goes) and find these to be useful.

1. Townies without power roles should not lie about their role except in very specific situations (which are unlikely to come up in newbie games.) Lying to save yourself from a lynch as a vanilla townie is much more likely to hurt the town than to help in the long run.

2. Townies without power roles should generally not claim to be vanilla townies. This makes it easier for the scum to figure out who the power roles are if there are any. Assuming that townies are following rule 1 they should avoid making claims other than simply being a pro-town role unless there is some strategy that the Town is using (e.g. massclaim at LyLo) or they be about to be lynched anyhow and keeping their non-power role status no longer makes it easier for the scum to find power roles.

3. If you suspect someone else of having a power role you shouldn't out them. Support them if you see a way to do it that doesn't out them and watch carefully to see if there are reasons to reassess your belief. Leave the claim of the power role to them unless you think that they will be lynched while they are away and wouldn't be able to make the claim them self.

4. If you do have a power role you should keep it hidden for now. Do not let yourself get lynched without revealing it but there is no reason to advertise it at the start in the setups that we could be in. If the scum know who have the power roles now they have the power to lynch or role block powers during the night and negate their usefulness.

5. If you're town don't self hammer. This kills a pro town role and hurts the towns chances in the long run. It's much better to try to defend yourself or at the very least force the other players to place the last vote. There are exceptions when a deadline is involved but in general don't think that you're doing the town any favors by self hammering.

Addressing this first in the case that Tasky pops in.

KittyMo · Post Post #241 (isolation #10) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:21 pm

Dekes wrote:KittyMo, reads before the lynch scene, please. Just in case, you might suffer the IC fate.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is a good idea, because I feel that my reads may heavily affect night actions tonight. I don't think the benefit of this outweighs the reality that living players really do not listen to the reads of dead players, IC or good scumhunter or not, plus it may create a lot of WIFOM. What are your thoughts on this?

KittyMo · Post Post #251 (isolation #11) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:43 pm

I've made a list of thoughts for tomorrow that aren't really reads. I will have updated reads post-flips if I'm alive in the morning. I've seen too many scum quicktopics based on end-of-day recently, particularly Newbie ones.

- Not lynching RayFrost based on the cases presented on him thus far. They're pretty frivolous.
- Not auto-lynching ajolin. Pressuring him is acceptable, yes, but I've been doing a lot of newbie modding recently, and though my sample size is a bit small, I've been surprised that 100% of non-lylo quickhammers have been from newbie town.
- Getting David to put a/some vote(s) out and get out of his comfort zone.
- Not lynching based on typical Vote Count Analysis. In my last modded game, the scum team perfectly won, despite neither of them being on a lynching bandwagon until Lylo. Take your wagon analysis on an individual, case-by-case basis.
- If Toxic flips town, don't be demoralized. Want to lynch scum that much more. Read the thread a few times over, think of something someone else hasn't. Don't be bored of this game and don't let it die, town. That's one of the biggest mistakes towns fall prey to, I think.

Have a good night, everyone.

KittyMo · Post Post #263 (isolation #12) » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:45 am

I'm not sure that I have a concrete top 2, but the major things bugging me right now are Jindori's active lurking toward the end of the day and David's lurkiness and seeming to forget about Toxic once the lynch no longer looked viable. But, I think Jindori's entrance post will be very telling.

ajolin: In the future, if you don't feel good about hammering, then don't hammer. In some cases, gut/intuition can see what logic cannot.

I'll go ahead and re-VOTE: David Xanatos for now.

KittyMo · Post Post #299 (isolation #13) » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:10 pm

ajolin, it's against the rules to communicate with other players outside of this thread unless it's with your scumbuddy during the night phase.

I'm going to hold off on posting until the Mod pops in. But, stop doing that.

KittyMo · Post Post #351 (isolation #14) » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:30 pm

I'm so, so, sorry, but I have to replace out immediately due to a family problem. PMing the mod with the name of a potential replacement.

Have a good game, and catch some scum for me.

I likely won't be on site for a long time. I'll miss you.

<3,

KittyMo