Newbie 1087: Welcome To The Jungle (Game Over)

[RayFrost]

Oh, and it's "hypocrisy" -_-. I saw someoone put "Hippocracy", which is worse (We are NOT talking about Hippocrates or the Hippocratic Oath, people!)

Rayfrost does bring up a very good point, now that I look over the thread again, at least in regards to toxic's pressure, and because of said unnecessary pressure I will

vote Twistedspoon

. However, Twisted voted for toxic way back in ISO 7 (post 56), so your argument about voting is actually a little switched around, Ray. You've got the wrong information somehow.

Any defense, Twisted?

It's a minor point on the scale of things, tbh. The main point's more the fact he's been misrepresenting the reasoning toxic used as his method of being on the wagon rather than substantiating his claims with something that isn't inaccurate and the fact that he instantly goes "RAYFROST SCUMZ!!11one!1one!!!one!" upon my attacking him. Reads like a knee-jerk "omfg, must attack person attacking me to discredit him without actually eplaining why he's scum with anything remotely reasonable" reaction.

[Twistedspoon]

Something I remembered while I was here: there's still a difference between my lack of vote and your initial lack of vote on toxic aside from the fact I forgot to vote in contrast to your actively not voting. You don't have any people voting you (Aside from me). Toxic did.

I initially didn't vote toxic

he bacame scummier

then i did vote toxic

simples.

I still think toxic is scum and would be very pleased with his lynch today.

i still don't know why you claimed town unprovoked on l-4 though

[Voidedmafia]

I don't think that particular claim is to be taken seriously.

[Twistedspoon]

i take it very seriously

I'm playing to win, not let jokers get off the hook for being scummy by not being serious

[KittyMo]

I don't have time to make a real post today. I'll see you all tomorrow.

[ajolin]

I have to agree with Twistedspoon. Ray defends himself and Toxic despite ray being under minor pressure, especially because the death of one townie wouldn't make a big dent in their ability to win, but the death of a scum... I could see defending Toxic some what, L-1 on the first day is pretty harsh, and it was my bad for not counting up the votes. I'm reminded of an old poof I used to use in TTT and Werewolf, if I turn out to be town, kill so and so, because that's the guy on my wagon. Honestly I'm thinking we kill Ray to see if he's town, then we kill Twistedspoon for wagoning him, and, if neither are mafia, you can kill me as compensation. It's a risky play, but I used to use it all the time when I started, and it was a 50/50.

[Voidedmafia]

What if Ray ends up scum? or twisted?

Twisted: even so, I would've still taken that claim with a grain of salt, considering where it was in the game.

[ajolin]

If Ray is scum then we know why he was defending Toxic so much. If it's Twistedspoon then half of the mob is gone, so we only have to worry about finding one guy.

[ajolin]

I agree about the "I'm town." thing Voidedmafia. It was at an early stage, and he was most likely reaction fishing. That Twistedspoon take is seriously is surprising, but it doesn't make Ray feel more or less scummy to me.

[Tasky]

VOTECOUNT 1.5

toxictaipan (1/5): Twistedspoon
jindori (1/5): toxictaipan
David Xanatos (1/5): KittyMo
Twistedspoon (1/5): RayFrost
RayFrost (1/5): ajolin
ajolin (1/5): jindori

Not voting (3): Voidedmafia, David Xanatos, Dekes

Deadline is 29.04 at 06:00 CET

[Dekes]

Meh, totally forgot about this one. And now it's late.

Post will come tomorrow afternoonish. And I have things to say. Oh yes, just you wait!

[jindori]

Because the most likely to be scum from a town point of view would be ajolin or I, if twisted is scum. If ray is scum votes on toxic. So my sugestion would be to vote one of those two and it will clear more names. If one roles town vote the other. If both role town mafia has duped us.

so here's the paths in my eyes

twisted roles scum vote day 1/2 rayfrost roles scum day 1/2
vote ajolin or i day 2/3 vote toxic
vote ajolin day 3/4

Hopefully we have inspector to make it easier on us and to sort out whos scum or not. If we have docter it's going to be so much harder. If we have both then awsome.

I tried to keep this post as unbiased as possible but i know the twisted path is a little biased. I just hope we have inspector.

[Voidedmafia]

I don't quite understand the syntax (word order) of what you just said. Could you try and make that a little bit more readable?

Also, by inspector I assume you mean cop?

[toxictaipan]

I don't quite understand the syntax (word order) of what you just said. Could you try and make that a little bit more readable?

Also, by inspector I assume you mean cop?

This, please.

[jindori]

I don't quite understand the syntax (word order) of what you just said. Could you try and make that a little bit more readable?

Also, by inspector I assume you mean cop?

Aggh i am sorry it cut out most the spacing. But what i meant was if ray frost turns scum vote toxic.

If twisted roles scum vote ajolin or I. Because we both followed twisted votes so that makes us the most likely candiates. It doesn't really matter if you lynch me cause i win if town wins. An inspector will be able to help us out lots and find scum easier.

[ajolin]

We have a cop and a doc jindori.

[Voidedmafia]

How do you know we do? We could have only one or the other, or we could have both. It just depends on if we have a RB (roleblocker) or not.

[RayFrost]

I have to agree with Twistedspoon. Ray defends himself and Toxic despite ray being under minor pressure, especially because the death of one townie wouldn't make a big dent in their ability to win, but the death of a scum... I could see defending Toxic some what, L-1 on the first day is pretty harsh, and it was my bad for not counting up the votes. I'm reminded of an old poof I used to use in TTT and Werewolf, if I turn out to be town, kill so and so, because that's the guy on my wagon. Honestly I'm thinking we kill Ray to see if he's town, then we kill Twistedspoon for wagoning him, and, if neither are mafia, you can kill me as compensation. It's a risky play, but I used to use it all the time when I started, and it was a 50/50.

Yeeaahhhh. You're saying that I shouldn't defend myself (lolwut) and that I should let toxic get wagoned based upon craplogic (lolwut) because townies can die without making a dent in the ability to win. Only part of this statement is correct (the fact townies can die without having a large impact on their aility to win early on in the game). Even with this being true, you should not let someone you think is town get lynched. Simple.

Killing people "to see if they're town" and then assuming someone's scum based off of that is just bad play. Setting up lynches without considering context / the scumminess of the players is terrible town play and transparent scum play, so either way what you're doing is bad play. By the way, taking such risks, if we're all town and blindly follow it, leaves town in lylo with essentially no information.

[RayFrost]

How do you know we do? We could have only one or the other, or we could have both. It just depends on if we have a RB (roleblocker) or not.

Note: we could also have none of them. Read teh rules.

[RayFrost]

Because the most likely to be scum from a town point of view would be ajolin or I, if twisted is scum. If ray is scum votes on toxic. So my sugestion would be to vote one of those two and it will clear more names. If one roles town vote the other. If both role town mafia has duped us.

so here's the paths in my eyes

twisted roles scum vote day 1/2 rayfrost roles scum day 1/2
vote ajolin or i day 2/3 vote toxic
vote ajolin day 3/4

Hopefully we have inspector to make it easier on us and to sort out whos scum or not. If we have docter it's going to be so much harder. If we have both then awsome.

I tried to keep this post as unbiased as possible but i know the twisted path is a little biased. I just hope we have inspector.

I can

explain

translate this:

If twisted is scum ajolin/jindori are most likely to be scum, and if Ray is scum then toxic is most likely. Lynch one of these two to get cleared names and then lynch the most likely people to be connected as scum with these names = best play.

This is wrong. Just. Terribly. Wrong. I can't even begin to express how wrong it is. It's ridiculous. Your can't base connections off of a single interaction in a single day. Blindly setting up lynches like the lot of you are doing now is

TERRIBLE

play. You should not ever set in stone in your mind who is scum with who and what lynches should happen. This will only lead to bad things when scum can easily take advantage of your set in stone mentality to manipulate the lynches away from themselves without ever needing to do manipulation.

[ajolin]

Jindori: Go to the second post and read the spoiler at the bottom.

[ajolin]

Voidedmafia, my bad.

[Voidedmafia]

How do you know we do? We could have only one or the other, or we could have both. It just depends on if we have a RB (roleblocker) or not.

Note: we could also have none of them. Read teh rules.

Oh. I somehow forgot that you could have an RB without PRs -_-.

But the rest of what you said is spot-on. Think, if you will, what if the scum is NOT any one of the people you've just suggested we vote? They could very well agree with you, and then they could very easily get us to lylo without really even trying because you did the work for them.

[ajolin]

The point is that it's almost always a guaranteed scum kill if the scum doesn't expect it. You usually don't pull things like that unless you are afraid you'll get killed in the night, or as a last resort before getting lynched so people will get the scum. It's hard to do this first day and have it work, but discrediting the strategy entirely doesn't make sense. And Ray you say not to set roles and associations in stone, but as long as you don't announce them, nobody knows what they are to use them against you. In this case the mobs know who we think is affiliated with who, and what flips point to which players, but it's not like we will actually use this information at this very second. I'd like to point out that we have a good sized deadline and we don't actually have to lynch(it's a risk to lynch, but at the same time, you could loose a valuable player to night kills) Damn, this game is a lot easier with PMing.

[Voidedmafia]

That may very well be true, but just brazenly going to try and lynch people without that much of a firm base to work on would just play into the scum's hands. I suppose it would be hasty to discredit it so out of hand, but what he's suggest just will not work at this stage of the game.