Newbie 1087: Welcome To The Jungle (Game Over)

[toxictaipan]

Y'all need to get in here, 'cause I'm ready to rolllll.

[toxictaipan]

Twistedspoon replaces DarlaBlueEyes.

And all was good in the world again <3

lol. What was wrong with having DarlaBlueEyes in the game?

[toxictaipan]

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

o rly?

VOTE: RayFrost

[toxictaipan]

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

o rly?

VOTE: RayFrost

Second scum found.

Your chainsaw was premature, toictaipan. Foolish fool fell fairly into my trap.

Mhm, yeah. Sure.

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

o rly?

VOTE: RayFrost

You know more than Ray does?

What'chu gonna do about it even if I do?

[toxictaipan]

There's nothing to explain. I was acting silly. RayFrost was doing it, nobody cared. I do it and I have to explain myself? That doesn't make sense. And do you know what it means when things don't make sense?

Scum.

[toxictaipan]

RayFrost was doing it, nobody cared. I do it and I have to explain myself? That doesn't make sense.

Nice logical fallacy there; Tu Quoque I believe

and yes it does make sense
you showed knowledge of only something scum would have.

You say that like I was the only one.

My, my. Somebody's getting feisty over one vote. Frosty being the main wagon at the moment indicates that people obviously do care about his shenanigans.

The difference is no one asked him to explain his actions.

[toxictaipan]

Okay, time to get serious. I'm sorry for acting silly and being confusing. We're just wasting time with these shenanigans.

UNVOTE: RayFrost
VOTE: jindori
Dude's changed his vote a few times. If he's scum, we can clear a few names.

[toxictaipan]

Okay, time to get serious. I'm sorry for acting silly and being confusing. We're just wasting time with these shenanigans.

UNVOTE: RayFrost
VOTE: jindori
Dude's changed his vote a few times. If he's scum, we can clear a few names.

So you like playing shenanigans

but when the votes rain down on you, you get all serious and defensive.

Right so what do you think's a safer vote a person putting pressure on people with his vote or

a defensive player with a scummy smell.

I could say the same about you. All I did was mention your name

once

and you try to shift the blame back onto me instantly.

Underlining edit mine, by the way.

[toxictaipan]

There's nothing to explain. I was acting silly. RayFrost was doing it, nobody cared. I do it and I have to explain myself? That doesn't make sense. And do you know what it means when things don't make sense?

Were you being silly because RayFrost was? Also, if you don't like being asked why you do what you're doing, I expect you're not going to like this game. The other players in this game are trying to understand your motivations. Additionally, can you offer evidence for why it makes a person more likely to be scum if they don't make sense to you?

Not really

because

he was, but just because I felt like it, too. And no, I'm fine with them asking questions. That wasn't my point. All I was trying to say was that, yes, while RayFrost had some votes, he wasn't given the same amount of heat as me for being silly. I'll admit, I might have taken it a bit too far.

It was a silly mistake that I won't make again. Again, I apologize.

[toxictaipan]

You say that like I was the only one.

"well frosty did it too" *walks off*

yeah, that hardly stops you from being scum now does it?

Mudslinging = scumtell

Worth noting:

Misrepresentation = scumtell

Mudslinging is not what toxic did. He was making a rather good point (if inaccurate) of "he and I did the same things - how am I scummy when he isn't?" Mudslinging would be an attempt at trying to move the topic and suspicion towards me based off of it, which is what he didn't do it. So yeh. He didn't mudsling, and misrepresentation is a scumtell.

Choo-choo on teh spoon.

This is basically what I've been trying to say. I don't understand why when

I

do something, it's scummy, but when

someone else

does the

same thing

(albeit, I may have taken it a little further than RayFrost did), it's not as scummy. Now, before you say it, I know RayFrost had votes and all, but he wasn't put at L-1 and given the same amount of heat as me. I really hate to keep using RayFrost as an example, especially after he so kindly defended me, but he also posted non-public info that only a mafia-aligned player could know (see spoiler). However, I'm the one who showed a, "major implication," of having non-public knowledge. If my

actions

were really that scummy, then RayFrost should (have) be(en) under the same amount of pressure as me, as we did similar things. But because he was never pressured as hard as I was, I can only conclude that I was stuck as the RVS choice when two players were joking around and you had to pick one (fair enough), in which case all I can say is, "You're wasting your time."

Spoiler:

I fail to see how this:

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

o rly?

VOTE: RayFrost

Second scum found.

Your chainsaw was premature, toictaipan. Foolish fool fell fairly into my trap.

Mhm, yeah. Sure.

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

o rly?

VOTE: RayFrost

You know more than Ray does?

What'chu gonna do about it even if I do?

is scummier than this:

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

Also: KittyMo, jindori, and Xanatos are all town.

Discuss.

I don't really know what defense I have, or what you all want me to say. I haven't done anything wrong. I was joking around during the beginning of the game (the point of that being, I thought it would have been obvious I was joking, but apparently not), and you just have to accept that if I were really scum, I wouldn't have come out so willingly or easily provoked.

[toxictaipan]

I don't quite understand the syntax (word order) of what you just said. Could you try and make that a little bit more readable?

Also, by inspector I assume you mean cop?

This, please.

[toxictaipan]

It reads like new-ish town that's trying too hard to me. Not town in of itself, but town due to the fact I feel the effort behind it and the motivation behind it is sincere.

This is pretty much how I feel about it. It was a long recap of the game that wasn't really needed. I don't really get a scummy read from it, it just seems a little pointless, in my opinion.



I'm having trouble getting a good read on anyone, because even though we've talked a lot, we haven't made an amazing amount of progress. So far, my reads are as follows: KittyMo, town; Twistedspoon, leaning towards scum; RayFrost, null, but leaning towards town; Voidedmafia, town; Dekes, town; David Xanatos, null; ajolin, leaning towards scum on a gut feeling for some reason. His self-vote was really weird; jindori, town.

That being said:
UNVOTE: jindori
VOTE: Twistedspoon

I agree with David Xanatos. I don't like how he's dropped off the radar.

[toxictaipan]

And you're a hypocrite for doing it, by not advocating the same accusations (sans the tu quoque argument) against Ray in the process.

that's because my case isn't on ray, but toxic

why should i mention him when trying to justify my toxic vote?

hippocrazy

Oh, acting silly are we? You are now confirmed scum.

[toxictaipan]

You are now confirmed scum.

How confirmed?

He's not. That's my point. I'm trying to show him why his logic on why he thinks I'm scum doesn't really work so well.

[toxictaipan]

I really don't like how jindori put Twistedspoon at L-1 like that. It was just

asking

for someone to come in and hammer vote. Although I'll agree that I don't think ajolin is scum. I just don't get a strong scum feel off of his hammer for some reason. Something about it seems... off, I guess.

For now, I'll be voting for jindori.
VOTE: jindori

[toxictaipan]

I really don't like how jindori put Twistedspoon at L-1 like that. It was just

asking

for someone to come in and hammer vote. Although I'll agree that I don't think ajolin is scum. I just don't get a strong scum feel off of his hammer for some reason. Something about it seems... off, I guess.

For now, I'll be voting for jindori.
VOTE: jindori

What do you feel is the scum motivation behind putting twisted at l-1? A claim? Hoping for a premature and highly unlikely with almost no chance of happening hammer?

If it was the second one, why hasn't jindori immediately gone hard slam on ajolin here? The claim doesn't work since claiming is done when someone who isn't on your wagon says they want to vote you and ask for a claim, not when you're at l-1.

Well, if jindori and ajolin shouldn't be suspected as scum because their plays were too out in the open and obvious for scum, then, by the same token, you and me should be cleared for our joking around during the beginning of Day 1. So, if there's no scum motivation behind jindori's and ajolin's plays, and you and me are clear (I think you're town, anyway, regardless of the joking at the beginning of the game. And I obviously know I'm not scum, but you guys have to come to your own conclusions on that), that leaves only the following players as scum suspects (in no particular order):

1. KittyMo
   
2. Voidedmafia
   
3. David Xanatos

To be absolutely honest, I really don't suspect those players as scum right now. I believe Voidedmafia to be town-aligned. KittyMo, I'm more unsure of, but I also get a town vibe from her. I have a completely null read on David Xanatos. He hasn't really said much and it's just so hard for me to get a read on him. That being said, I think David needs to do a little more talking. It's going to get really suspicious really fast if he doesn't start posting more. I may change my vote to him later on if he continues his minimal posting habits.

I don't believe both of the scum are included in that list of players. In my opinion, someone here has made a risky scum play, and it payed off.

[toxictaipan]

The key thing was toxic was acting like he knew more. he seemed smug and like he had power not the way a new town should be acting. Thats why i veiw toxic as scum.

Yet it was quite obvious that he was acting under the premise of RVS, so why would that necessarily make him be scummier?

When asked do you know something more his response didn't seem townie to me. I mean yes there's a chance a joke but think. Would town make that sort of joke, the i know more than you sort. It seemed to be suggestive but not evident enough. It's pretty much worthless on it's on but add on the david vote a pattern seems to be drawn in my mind.

Okay, answer me this: Is it more likely for a scum player to yell, "OMG HEY GUYS, I'M SCUM!"

for absolutely no reason whatsoever

at the very start of the game

, or is it more likely for a townie to joke around during the RVS of the game?

Oh the lynch set up forgot about that wa noobish of me i did that when i had tunnel vision. Funny how your two top suspects came from that list through. Also it wasn't toxic agreeing with his point of view he used it as his reason to vote twisted with out supplying a reason of his own. That my friend is two diffrent things.

So... I'm not allowed to have the same reasoning as any other player in the game?

Well given that he was my main suspect yesterday, he may have done that in order to link himself with me and deflect some suspicion.

And since people seem to be complaining about me not throwing out a vote, I'll just leave this on my current top suspect. (Uni exam tomorrow, so sue me.)

Vote: Toxic.

Well i guess i gave enough reason to why i think toxic is scum. You can see them in my argument with voided

vote toxic.

I lol'd when I read this.

Well given that he was my main suspect yesterday, he may have done that in order to link himself with me and deflect some suspicion.

And since people seem to be complaining about me not throwing out a vote, I'll just leave this on my current top suspect. (Uni exam tomorrow, so sue me.)

Vote: Toxic.

"I'm not going to actually post content and will instead OMGUS on some dude I had suspicion of yesterday without giving a case or doing anything that even resembles an attempt at being able to contribute"

Yeah. Scum. Jinori's probable partner due to him laying out a case on toxic but waiting until david came in and gave a vote. Jinori, you shouldn't follow your scumbuddy around on votes, it makes you obvious. Individuality would've been a good idea to avoid being so obv-obv.

Guys. Jindori or David. Pick one, either one. They're both scum in the end.

*E-High Five*

[toxictaipan]

You know what the funny thing is, jindori? You've got a hang-up on Day 1, RVS joking around and you're using it as your main reason for voting someone on Day 2. Not to mention that you yourself were involved in RVS joking around at the beginning of the game, also. This just goes to show how little scum hunting you're actually trying to do.

RayFrost showed just as much information, if not more, than I did, and you're letting him go

completely

under the radar. Why are you stuck on me so badly? If my actions were truly that suspicious, then, logically, someone else who made the

same

actions I did should be under just as much suspicion, but I haven't seen RayFrost's name mentioned once. You're not being very consistent.

You're just pushing votes on me because I was a bigger bandwagon than RayFrost was and you think it will be easier to get other people on my case again. Why build a new wagon when you can just use the same one you did yesterday, right?

[toxictaipan]

You know what the funny thing is, jindori? You've got a hang-up on Day 1, RVS joking around and you're using it as your main reason for voting someone on Day 2. Not to mention that you yourself were involved in RVS joking around at the beginning of the game, also. This just goes to show how little scum hunting you're actually trying to do.

RayFrost showed just as much information, if not more, than I did, and you're letting him go

completely

under the radar. Why are you stuck on me so badly? If my actions were truly that suspicious, then, logically, someone else who made the

same

actions I did should be under just as much suspicion, but I haven't seen RayFrost's name mentioned once. You're not being very consistent.

You're just pushing votes on me because I was a bigger bandwagon than RayFrost was and you think it will be easier to get other people on my case again. Why build a new wagon when you can just use the same one you did yesterday, right?

No i am going back to day 1 because i thought we missed evidence there and guess what i pointed some new out there. Also if you remember i didn't let him go under the rader i questioned him. so your defense using rayfrost is null since i questioned both. The first time i actually voted for you no one was actually on you. I was actually the first person on you. You weren't the bigger wagon ray was your logic is flawed.

And people this is why twisted is scum.

Yeah, because y'all spent most of Day 1 grilling me on my joking around. Clearly you missed something there. What did you point out that was new?

I can't be bothered to go back in the thread and see if you questioned RayFrost or not. I'm not arguing that you didn't. I'm arguing that you're letting him go under the radar

now

. We did the same thing, so we're equally guilty! Why is RayFrost off the hook

now

if I'm still suspicious?

What? I wasn't the bigger wagon? You sure? I was put at L-1 and questioned during most of Day 1. I don't remember RayFrost being put at L-1. So how is my logic flawed again?




It's fun to watch scum squirm.

[toxictaipan]

You know what the funny thing is, jindori? You've got a hang-up on Day 1, RVS joking around and you're using it as your main reason for voting someone on Day 2. Not to mention that you yourself were involved in RVS joking around at the beginning of the game, also. This just goes to show how little scum hunting you're actually trying to do.

RayFrost showed just as much information, if not more, than I did, and you're letting him go

completely

under the radar. Why are you stuck on me so badly? If my actions were truly that suspicious, then, logically, someone else who made the

same

actions I did should be under just as much suspicion, but I haven't seen RayFrost's name mentioned once. You're not being very consistent.

You're just pushing votes on me because I was a bigger bandwagon than RayFrost was and you think it will be easier to get other people on my case again. Why build a new wagon when you can just use the same one you did yesterday, right?

No i am going back to day 1 because i thought we missed evidence there and guess what i pointed some new out there. Also if you remember i didn't let him go under the rader i questioned him. so your defense using rayfrost is null since i questioned both. The first time i actually voted for you no one was actually on you. I was actually the first person on you. You weren't the bigger wagon ray was your logic is flawed.

And people this is why twisted is scum.

Yeah, because y'all spent most of Day 1 grilling me on my joking around. Clearly you missed something there. What did you point out that was new?

I can't be bothered to go back in the thread and see if you questioned RayFrost or not. I'm not arguing that you didn't. I'm arguing that you're letting him go under the radar

now

. We did the same thing, so we're equally guilty! Why is RayFrost off the hook

now

if I'm still suspicious?

What? I wasn't the bigger wagon? You sure? I was put at L-1 and questioned during most of Day 1. I don't remember RayFrost being put at L-1. So how is my logic flawed again?




It's fun to watch scum squirm.

I grilled both you and frost on your joke so your point is null get that into you first kkk.
Rays off the hook because he started contributing greatly. While in my eyes you haven't.
Your logic is flawed cause i was the one to actually vote you first. I started your bandwagon so you can't blame me for hoping on it.

kkk. I briefly reviewed the whole thread, and I just don't see where you grilled RayFrost as much as you grilled me. Please link to any applicable quotes.

Fair enough, you can have the opinion that I haven't contributed greatly. However, I think I'm doing a fine job.

My logic isn't flawed. I'm not saying you're hopping on the bandwagon. I'm saying you're trying to get OTHER PEOPLE to hop on the bandwagon against me. BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM, AND THAT'S WHAT SCUM DO. THEY TRY TO START BANDWAGONS.

[toxictaipan]

No i am going back to day 1 because i thought we missed evidence there and guess what i pointed some new out there. Also if you remember i didn't let him go under the rader i questioned him. so your defense using rayfrost is null since i questioned both. The first time i actually voted for you no one was actually on you. I was actually the first person on you. You weren't the bigger wagon ray was your logic is flawed.

And people this is why twisted is scum.

Yeah, because y'all spent most of Day 1 grilling me on my joking around. Clearly you missed something there. What did you point out that was new?

I can't be bothered to go back in the thread and see if you questioned RayFrost or not. I'm not arguing that you didn't. I'm arguing that you're letting him go under the radar

now

. We did the same thing, so we're equally guilty! Why is RayFrost off the hook

now

if I'm still suspicious?

What? I wasn't the bigger wagon? You sure? I was put at L-1 and questioned during most of Day 1. I don't remember RayFrost being put at L-1. So how is my logic flawed again?




It's fun to watch scum squirm.

I grilled both you and frost on your joke so your point is null get that into you first kkk.
Rays off the hook because he started contributing greatly. While in my eyes you haven't.
Your logic is flawed cause i was the one to actually vote you first. I started your bandwagon so you can't blame me for hoping on it.

kkk. I briefly reviewed the whole thread, and I just don't see where you grilled RayFrost as much as you grilled me. Please link to any applicable quotes.

Fair enough, you can have the opinion that I haven't contributed greatly. However, I think I'm doing a fine job.

My logic isn't flawed. I'm not saying you're hopping on the bandwagon. I'm saying you're trying to get OTHER PEOPLE to hop on the bandwagon against me. BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM, AND THAT'S WHAT SCUM DO. THEY TRY TO START BANDWAGONS.

Actually town also start bandwagons logic flaw there. Your over emotional state to my comment doesn't seem town to me. Also in the beginning i vote hooped to apply pressure. To other people. You were just the most suspicious so i put most pressure on you. I said rayfrost contributed more but your doing OK. But your scum and your trying to bandwagon me is kinda a scummy thing to do for future refrence.

No. Town-aligned players don't usually start bandwagons. Town-aligned players provide solid reasoning for their votes and such. A bandwagon is completely different. A bandwagon is when you try to get people to vote for a player

without

providing sound reasoning. At least, that's the definition I use. After looking it up in the wiki, it seems this site uses a similar, but slightly different definition. It doesn't really negate my argument, either way, though.

I'm not in an over-emotional state. I am capable of using caps lock and remaining calm at the same time.

I never asked you why you vote hopped, who you vote-hopped to, or anything else like that. Awfully quick to post an explanation for something I didn't even ask about, huh? That's

totally

not suspicious or anything.

I like how when I accuse you of starting a bandwagon on me, you accuse me of starting a bandwagon on you. I'm not starting a bandwagon on you. I wouldn't need to even if I was scum. Every time you reply to something I say you dig your own grave deeper and deeper because you're not making any sense and you're dodging questions left and right.

Speaking of which....

Thanks for not linking to any of those posts I asked for. And, while we're on the subject, here are some other things I asked but never got answers to (please don't bother replying unless you are going to answer them):

Yeah, because y'all spent most of Day 1 grilling me on my joking around. Clearly you missed something there.

What did you point out that was new?

What? I wasn't the bigger wagon? You sure? I was put at L-1 and questioned during most of Day 1. I don't remember RayFrost being put at L-1. So how is my logic flawed again?

Here I asked how you figured I wasn't the bigger wagon during Day 1. This is what you replied with:

I grilled both you and frost on your joke so your point is null get that into you first kkk.
Rays off the hook because he started contributing greatly. While in my eyes you haven't.
Your logic is flawed cause i was the one to actually vote you first. I started your bandwagon so you can't blame me for hoping on it.

At that point of time in the discussion, I don't really remember asking you if you hopped on your own bandwagon or not. I asked you why you thought RayFrost was the bigger bandwagon (which he wasn't). You totally changed the subject when I proved you wrong. But I'll ask again just in case.

How was RayFrost a bigger bandwagon than I was during Day 1?

[toxictaipan]

Actually town also start bandwagons logic flaw there.

Your over emotional state to my comment doesn't seem town to me. Also in the beginning i vote hooped to apply pressure. To other people. You were just the most suspicious so i put most pressure on you. I said rayfrost contributed more but your doing OK.

But your scum and your trying to bandwagon me is kinda a scummy thing to do for future refrence.

"This ain't scummy when I do it, but ur scum for doing it"

LOL! I've been dealing with that since my first post.

When did i accuse you of starting a bandwagon on me i never did. Was that your intention, scum slip maybe????

Here in your very last post. It's the last sentence.

[toxictaipan]

lol your obv misqouting that on purpose it was clearly understanble when i put it in the right context and plus i am trying not to quote wall. Re read the thing it was a reply to that post of course it was reffering to that.

lol no. I'm not obviously misquoting something on purpose. I guess I can see where you're coming from, but your English made it really hard to understand at first. You can't blame me for that.

Being chummy with people and defending people you think is town is not a scumtell.

1. Townies defend people they think are town
2. Some players (like myself) actively choose to be "chummy" with players. I'm chummy all the time. With everyone I like.

I have to agree with ray on this point. But seriously i don't know how you could see toxic as town. Look he uses emotional posts to dodge some questions. Seriously I'm convinced his scum.

So... I accuse you of dodging questions, and then you accuse me of dodging questions? Didn't we

just

do this? How come every time I say something about you, you turn around say the same thing about me?

I'm not using emotional posts. I don't see how you can figure that. I used caps lock for like one line worth of text. I'd hardly call that emotional, but YMMV, I guess.


I don't know how you could see me as scum. Your case against me only has two or three "major" points, and they're rather poor ones at that.

1. You claim I displayed information only mafia could know during the beginning of the game. You refuse to accept the fact that I was joking. You continue to ignore other players who have made similar actions as myself, and thus should be just as likely considered as scum. You claim to have grilled the other players, but when I ask for references, I never get them.
2. You claim I used David as a tool to get my vote in on Twistedspoon. This is probably the best point you have. I'll admit, I didn't really give a good, thorough explanation for my vote, but I wrote what I meant. Am I not allowed to agree with other players in the game? If I do agree with them, do I have to write my own essay on why I agree with them, instead of just simply saying that I agree?
3. One line of text worth of caps lock is considered emotional and that's a good reason to lynch me. You claim I'm dodging questions, but I have seen no secondary attempt to get them answered. If you would point out any questions you feel I've left unanswered, I'd be glad to answer them for you.


And that's about all you've got. I'm sorry, but those just don't seem like good reasons for lynching someone. If you somehow manage to get me lynched, you're going to be really disappointed when I come back as town-aligned. You'll have absolutely nothing to go on to find the scum because you were too busy focusing on one player. You'll never catch scum who use poor reasoning for choosing to vote for me, because your

whole case

against me is illogical to begin with. You would just end up giving the scum a free lynch. You, in turn, look scummy (more scummy than you already look, that is), and would likely be lynched. If you're town, you would just be giving the scum

2

free lynches. Even if your efforts are sincere, they're poorly executed and counterproductive.

We, as a team, have done absolutely no scum hunting today because you've spent all your time pitching a poor case against the easiest target. I went with it because you made yourself look more guilty with each reply, and since I thought you were scum, that was okay. I thought we were getting somewhere. However, I'm not so sure now, and I feel like this whole thing may have been a

massive

waste of time, and that's not okay. That's not okay at all.

[toxictaipan]

So... I accuse you of dodging questions, and then you accuse me of dodging questions? Didn't we

just

do this? How come every time I say something about you, you turn around say the same thing about me?

Small correction here. I forgot that we determined you were trying to quote me instead of accuse me about the bandwagon thing. Sorry, my mistake.

The point still stands, however.

[toxictaipan]

Also, just to explain my reason for the caps lock earlier: That was just a form of emphasis. It seemed there was a miscommunication between me and jindori (one of many, apparently...). He seemed to think I was accusing him of jumping on a bandwagon against me. I was merely trying to get his attention and point out what I meant more clearly -- that he was the leader of the bandwagon and actively pitching a case against me in an attempt to get other players to vote for me.

[toxictaipan]

Well then if i had a case that doesn't really make it a band wagon on you from your definition (i Think a band wagon is just players voting one player.). It means i actually was putting a case down with reasons. Players who join with no reason are band wagoners. I thought you were scum through gut on the second day. When I found you voted twisted with out displaying a reason of your own.( It's considered scummy to vote someone with out displaying an reason of your own.) I thought yep his def scum and started tunneling from there.

No, you misunderstood me, but this time it's probably my fault. A bandwagon is when a player is presenting a case against a player

or

voting for a player in hopes of a lynch, but using poor logic. I didn't make that very clear in my post, I apologize.

If you're scum, in order to start a bandwagon, you have to present a case against a player by using poor logic, hoping that the other players will overlook the flaws in your logic and lynch your chosen town-aligned player. That's what you did. You had a single decent point and the rest of your case was a bunch of illogical stuff. That's why I accused you of starting a bandwagon -- you had a case, but it wasn't a

good

case.

Hopping on a bandwagon is similar. You simply vote for the player in question without providing a reason or by providing very poor reasons.

"Bandwagon," is a pretty general term and can be used differently, that's just how I chose to use it. To me, "bandwagon," represents poor logic. Scum use it to get other people to vote for a player, or to hop on the bandwagon, in other words. They try to get other people to hop on board with their poor logic.

The only other way I would use the term, "bandwagon," is when a bunch of people vote for a single player in order to apply pressure, but only when used

solely

to apply pressure. If there's any other actual reasoning behind the vote, it shouldn't be classified as a bandwagon. It's okay for town-aligned players to bandwagon in this sense.

[toxictaipan]

@toxic I see what you mean now but the thing is Town can hop on things that seem illogical as well look at twisted. Town don't have that much information. It's mafia job to make something seem scummy they have the advantage. Mafia actually win more games than they lose because they have information. So to a town player anything can be information.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Scum try to start a bandwagon with stuff that

sounds

good, but doesn't

actually

make that much sense. It's a trick.

[toxictaipan]

It's pretty convenient for the scum to just let the discussion die after jindori and I settled out conflict.

David, you need to get in here. I'm slightly less suspicious of jindori now, and I'm moving my attention away from him now. You don't want to be the one who I'm focused on. I don't like the way you and jindori lined up your votes.

ajolin, give me at least 3

good

reasons why I shouldn't vote for you because of your hammer vote on Twistedspoon.

[toxictaipan]

Toxic: Why should I. You're just one vote, and I already said why I did it. It was a gut reaction, as I said. I felt like there was enough evidence on him that I assumed people wouldn't mind if we had finally picked a lynch.

Why? Because you made a scummy move and I asked you to give me three good reasons why I should ignore that fact. At first I kind of agreed with RayFrost about it, but I've been thinking about it for a while and I'm not so sure. I also find it scummy that you're even the slightest bit reluctant to clear your name, regardless of the accusation against you. How suspicious would I be right now if I only defended myself one time saying, "It was only a joke"? I've had to do a lot more than that to prove myself. You don't get off quite so easy. I didn't.

I supposed it could have been a gut reaction, but hammer voting like that, without ever giving the lynched player a chance to role claim or post a defense is never good for the town. Given, this is a newbie game, but a player can't hide behind the "I didn't know any better" excuse forever. That's extremely too convenient for scum.

[toxictaipan]

ajolin, why are you ignoring me?

[toxictaipan]

VOTE: ajolin

No explanation necessary.

[toxictaipan]

ajolin is also my top suspect. Townies don't pull two quick hammers like that. They just don't.

ajolin, why do you think I'm scum? I'd like a good laugh right now.

[toxictaipan]

If you're trying to argue that lynching

two players (especially after you were told not to do it again when you did it the first time)

is in

any way

a pro-town play, then... I don't even know what to say. But

clearly

forcing lylo and making a town-aligned player look the most suspicious of the remaining players (assuming some freak outcome and you really are town-aligned) was a town-aligned player's best option.

You do realize that it's

your

fault if the town loses when you're lynched, right? You seem to not even care.

[toxictaipan]

Edit by way of post:

It should read, "If you're trying to argue that lynching

two players (especially after you were told not to do it again when you did it the first time)

before allowing them to role claim

is in any way a pro-town play, then... I don't even know what to say."

[toxictaipan]

GG guys.

ajolin, man, you really ruined the game. That was no fun.

[toxictaipan]

Just got done reading the mafia quicktopic. Interesting stuff.

RayFrost, you kept on saying I was about as transparent as I could get, but what other choice did I really have? I basically had to outright tell everyone I was a vanilla townie on Day 1 and spent two whole game days arguing over one of the stupidest reasons for a lynch I've ever seen. Oh, and speaking of which, see what I meant by giving RayFrost the same amount of pressure as me, guys? You totally picked the wrong target because you were stuck on arbitrary reasoning. If you were going to grill me, you should have at least grilled RayFrost, too. Maybe you'll listen next time...

RayFrost, I did end up trusting you, but you were about one of the only players making sense and playing pro-town. Again, I didn't really have a choice. ajolin pulled two quick-hammers like it was

nothing

. How could I

not

be suspicious of that? jindori soaked up a good amount of my suspicion, too. That guy wasn't making

any

sense. Once I realized what was going on, though, I backed off. Maybe I would have suspected you and Voidedmafia if the actual town players played like they were actually town. You guys were given a pretty thick blanket to hide under.

[toxictaipan]

Back-up mod here, with a bit of advice: 1) Never put a vote out as soon as the day starts in LYLO. You are just begging scum to quickhammer if you do. 2) Never give up. Even when it looks like all is lost and you are going to be lynched, keep pulling evidence and making cases. You never know when you might find something that will make people believe you are town.

And now, off I go to read so I can give personalized advice.

When you self-voted, I actually started writing a post that said...

From a town perspective, ajolin should unvote and toic should as well. Unless you are almost 100% certain the person you're voting is scum, voting early in lylo is a terrible, terrible idea. Don't do it. We should also mass claim [insert my mass claim post that I had here]

From a scum perspective:

Vote: Ajolin

GG

I realize that voting so quickly during lylo isn't the best thing to do, I was aware of that when I cast the vote, but ajolin seemed suspicious enough for me. I could see a noob-town pulling two quick hammers,

I guess

, but it just didn't feel right. I still don't understand how he can pull such a God awful player like that and not even care. Simply. Amazing.

Toxic, it doesn't matter why I think you're scum. I'm getting lynched this round no matter what, and the town will loose. GG Toxic.

"Townies don't pull two quick hammers like that. They just don't." WIFOM. Maybe town would do it because you would assume no scum would be dumb enough to double quickhammer. Maybe scum would do it for the same reason. Assuming somebody "just wouldn't do something" no matter what is flat out wrong. There's a lot of people who would never do something ever, and then they get put in a circumstance where it would be the best possible option. Never say "never."

It was also apparent to me by these two posts that ajolin didn't care about the game at all and was going to make no reasonable attempt to keep himself from getting lynched in the case that he was actually a town-aligned player. It was a really bad play, and it ruined the game.

I was starting to get suspicious of you, RayFrost, when you let ajolin off on his first quick-hammer, even though I kinda agreed with you at first. By the time ajolin hammered the second time, though, I figured that he was either the most arrogant scum I've ever seen or that the game was ruined fro town at that point, anyway.