Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[Darkstrike_11]

4.) Darkstrike_11, your Post 313 continually bugs me for the same reason.

Essentially, your first several points are written in the past-tense; as if you wrote them after you had already read. But the remainder of your points are in the present tense, as if you are commenting as you read. Tell me true: did you edit your first few points after you had already done some reading?

I literally hadn't realised that happened! Having read back my post though, you are right. point is, I did the majority of the post in present tense because I was writing my feelings on each post as I read them: hence why you can see my feelings about players change in real time, and hence why I was confused by your dayvig claim to start, then realised that it was srs.

I guess the first couple of posts I tried to give some more facts about what was actually happening, to be honest with you I hadn't realised that I had changed tense, but the post wasn't edited post-reading at all.

PJ, were you surprised at moz's flip?

[Shanba]

Vote Count:
4: nopointinactingup

(Cogito Ergo Sum, implosion, scotmany12, Meransiel)

1: Apokalyptica

(MrBuddyLee)

1: Cogito Ergo Sum

(Amrun)

1: MrBuddyLee

(petroleumjelly)

1: Amrun

(kunkstar7)
Not Voting:

Apokalyptica, Tuncali, Darkstrike_11, nopointinactingup

Deadline is Monday March 18 April, btw

Tuncali and nopointinactingup are in violation of activity guidelines and are being prodded

[scotmany12]

@MBL: Post #409 from Mer looks very sincere and towny to me. His whole tone about it. He could have focused mostly on him being the #2 suspect, but instead of that, he actually attempted to let people know where his thoughts are at. He logically explains why he would vote for you, even though I disagree with it.

I do have some questions for mer after rereading that post.

Mer: You said that you would probably vote for mbl had Moz turned up town. I'm pretty sure you explained why you didn't somewhere, but could you point that out to me? And if you didn't explain, then could you? Also, you said that you were pretty sure that there was at least one scum on his wagon. Is there anyone who was on the mozamis wagon that you think that applies to at the moment?

Also, could you elaborate on this:

I find scot's points on actingup to be fairly valid,

though his defensive stance on MBL does send quite a strange vibe...

I am not getting Amrun's attack on ces/mbl at all. It also feels like PJ is twisting quite a lot of what MBL has said, in order to support his point. I'm not viewing MBL as a hypocrite at all.

For those that have played with ces, does he normally not explain his votes like he has been doing in this game?

[Amrun]

kunkstar, you retracted your statement, so why have you not retracted your vote?

Merensial re-read post up soon... Been busy.

[petroleumjelly]

PJ, were you surprised at moz's flip?

Yes. And I still am. It makes literally no sense that a player with mozamis' background would "assume 2 scum" when his experience of being in two 3-man scum groups is completely contradictory to that assumption. Even though mozamis flipped Town, I am convinced this type of contradiction will lead to scum

far

more often than not.

MrBuddyLee, whether or not you are Town, I am disliking your language.

Unless you are going to call me scum (or suggest I can actually be scum at this point), please refrain from calling me "dishonest," etc. I am pretty obviously Town, and I want to find scum. And believe it or not, I have

not

liked your posts this game. Whether or not I am able to

express

my dislike well does not make me dishonest. You can say I am reading your posts "wrong" all you like, but your responses have all been adding an element of "bad intent" to my case on you. Overall, your posts leave a bad taste in my mouth. Usually, your posts seem more pointed and inquisitive; but this game, it seems like many of your posts ever-so-subtly paint other players in a bad light, for pretty much no good reason that I can see.

[petroleumjelly]

Mod: I am voting for MrBuddyLee, not Apokalypica.

[petroleumjelly]

Also, MrBuddyLee, it seems as though you only have 19 posts in the game you linked me too, so it is not very helpful. How about I instead ask for a game which you feel is representative of your scum play?

[Amrun]

No, it's actually nothing but common sense. If you are scum, thus, knowing who is innocent and who isn't, you don't go around accusing people of coaching "obvscums", especially since you KNOW said obscums are going to die and flip town.

Hence, I stand on my belief that Amrun is town. Do with that as you wish.

Okay. I have done a re-skim and an ISO of Merensial, and I think he's town.

The quoted post is one of the reasons I think so, because I don't see scum trying to clear someone as town in that fashion.


I thought this would be more complicated, since I had a scumread on him earlier in the day, but in the end, it was quite simple.

[MrBuddyLee]

I'd actually like to see your response to this, MBL. The only response that I see is you saying that it was 5 and not 3; that essentially sidesteps the main argument.

I believe I answered that question inside the first spoiler here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2929252

For those that have played with ces, does he normally not explain his votes like he has been doing in this game?

Correct. He will usually elaborate if you ask nicely.

please refrain from calling me "dishonest"

Ok. scot may or may not be town, but he used the word "twisted", so I'm not alone in my feeling that your posting's off. Somewhere between "dishonest", "twisted" and "careless" is where I feel your reading of this game falls. Guessing based on the way the last game was balanced, it's unlikely that a daykiller is scum in this game, so no, I don't think you're likely scum at all. I'm just frustrated at being misread and called all sorts of crap by mozamisTown, called a liar, sorry, flailing, FAIL, weak, pathetic, bullshit, and incorrectly accused of strawmanning by nopoint, and tired of being misread by Amrun, who has at least been polite about it. Being accused of hypocrisy by you, on what I consider a pretty bad misread by you, is the icing on the cake. You're probably not all scum. So it's frustrating, and yeah, I'll watch my tongue so it doesn't distract from the game anymore. It's just that words like "dimwit" were invented for a purpose, and it really felt like the situation called for it at the time.

Usually, your posts seem more pointed and inquisitive; but this game, it seems like many of your posts ever-so-subtly paint other players in a bad light, for pretty much no good reason that I can see.

I'm feeling pretty damned pointed and inquisitive. I've had to spend more time defending myself this game than in a usual game, mostly because of my "Magnetic was obvscum" stunt, which has added to noise in my posts. Hopefully it put a scum or two in a bad position (nopoint, Truant) but at least so far it's been a town honeypot. I've also been ad-hommed more than usual, and you should note, I didn't start that crap. As for questioning other players, there's a limited amount to go on right now, as the mozamis lynch kind of took us back to square one. I'm asking the best questions I can, and so are a few others, but I think to some extent it feels like we're all fumbling around in the dark right now.

@PJ: It's been a week since you asked me a question about my suspicions. It would be a refreshing breath of fresh air to have a discussion with you about suspects instead of being preached at about my playstyle. Problem is, you've shut me down when I've asked for your other suspects and you've even insinuated that me asking for other suspects is bad play and/or scummy. So I've been asking other people those questions and leaving you to do your thing. Ball's in your court.

[MrBuddyLee]

Also, MrBuddyLee, it seems as though you only have 19 posts in the game you linked me too, so it is not very helpful. How about I instead ask for a game which you feel is representative of your scum play?

I got nominated for a Scummy for best scum performance in this game--I forget whether I won or not: http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... 40&start=0

[kunkstar7]

kunkstar, you retracted your statement, so why have you not retracted your vote?

Merensial re-read post up soon... Been busy.

I retracted one portion of the post, that doesn't mean I retracted my entire scumread on you.

[Apokalyptika]

On Meransiel, I get an overall town feeling, but there are isolated chunks of scumminess (such as rolefishing moz's role in #45), averaging out to null.

[Amrun]

Okay, kunkstar. Explain it, then, because that was the only reason you gave and it was based on an outright falsehood, which you admitted.

[Shanba]

Oops, sorry PJ. Fixing!

[implosion]

School started today, so my activity might be somewhat low... still, jeez. This activity level is saddening. Fewer than 20 posts in the 2-3 days I've been gone. Meransiel and CES are within prodding range. IIRC, nopoint and tuncali were already prodded. At least there isn't too much to catch up on, I guess.

On pj's MBL case and MBL's defense - MBL's defense looks real to me. I still don't buy the case on him.

This game is still churning in my head, but I really don't have much else to add. The game has kind of stalled out since the mozamis kill...

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Activity would be higher if nopointscum were dead.

[MrBuddyLee]

CES, how do you differentiate nopointScum here from noPointLazytown? I mean, we just made that mistake with mozamis.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

There's an insistence and certainty to his play that I don't think matches up with lazy town.

[Amrun]

Still waiting on answer to my question to kunkstar.

[Apokalyptika]

Don't really have much to say at the moment, but Amrun makes a good point on kunkstar.

[kunkstar7]

My scumread on Amrun comes from this post. I haven't seen anything that says "town" to me from you otherwise. Furthermore your MrBuddyLee push based on the connections seems out of place. If you had made a connection to CES that was based off of CES's actions that are scummy, why did it merit a MBL vote rather than a CES vote? CES clearly would be the optimal route if you had conviction in your CES-MBL connection. But you somehow flip it to support a MBL lynch instead (note here that MBL is a more popular wagon, so I see it as trying to push the MBL wagon sneakily).

[Amrun]

It was precisely because MBL was the more popular wagon, though not for the reason you think.

At the time, I was thinking that I wanted to see a flip from one of them and it didn't matter which one.

But I was thinking about it afterwards and realized that was a rash decision and CES, being the scummier of the two, deserved my vote more. So I put it there instead.

But okay. Just wanted your reasons.

[scotmany12]

Hey Apokalyptika, who do you think is scum at the moment? Why aren't you voting for someone? This goes for Darkstrike as well.

[Amrun]

Fair question.

[petroleumjelly]

Busy, anti-prod post.