Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Furcolow]

notice my post above yours
notice how it completely refutes your point
make your post anyways

seems scummy

vote: PeregrineV

[Sotty7]

4th vote count of day 4

Furcolow - 1 -

The Fonz

Stephoscope - 1 -

bvoigt

The Fonz - 4 -

Beasts of the Sea, PeregrineV, Lowell, LynchMePls

bvoigt - 1 -

Stephoscope

EGL - 2 -

smargaret, Scott Brosius

Feysal - 1 -

ThAdmiral

PeregrineV - 1 -

Furcolow

Not voting - 3 -

Feysal, EGL, Sathoris

• With
  14
  alive, it takes
  8
  to lynch.
  
• Deadline for the end of Day four is Thursday 21st of April @ 11am CST
  
• Feysal
  is V/LA till Thursday

[PeregrineV]

@Fur- Which you posted while I was posting mine.
What point did I make? I think I asked you a question.
Suit yourself.

[Furcolow]

It comes up when you post that someone posted. You would have seen it; you should have EBWOP.

[smargaret]

I don't really have anything to say until Feysal comes in and answers my question.

[Stephoscope]

Can we please lynch bvoigt today?

[Furcolow]

Feysal - can you elaborate on why the EGL case is suddenly invalid?

I disagree with even having to ask this
It is just his opinion
EGL hammering/actively lurking is scummy

[Scott Brosius]

Can we please lynch bvoigt today?

Do you have opinions on anyone else?

I don't really have anything to say until Feysal comes in and answers my question.

This is a lame excuse not to provide content. No other opinions on others?

Having everyone tunneling on 5 different people is not helpful. We need wagons.

I like my vote where it is. Peregrine reads noob more than anything but the slot has been scummy. Are you an alt or complete newbie? I assume complete newbie wouldn't be allowed but you never know. Not really seeing the Fonz wagon.

[ThAdmiral]

What happened to the feysal wagon?

If people don't come back I'll join the fonz wagon. If it's good enough for BotS, Lowell and LMP...

[LimMePls]

Except that I haven't disregarded everything else. I've made clear my position on Feysal (townish) and EGL (scummy). I'm not going to throw four years of being an ardent Lynch All Liars advocate out the window because some other people have a town read on Furc, but I'm also clearly not using it as an excuse to avoid commenting on other issues. Also, if I'm attacked by something I don't think is fair or reasonable, of course I'm going to point it out.

So on Day four of a large theme game, other than your Furc pushing, you've commented on Feysal and EGL. But you're not hiding behind Furc. Yeah, ok...

[smargaret]

No, furc, we need to hear the answer to that. It's more than just his opinion.

Scott, trust me on this until feysal comes back?

[The Fonz]

No access until saturday.

[LimMePls]

Mod:

I will be V/LA rest of this week into Monday. I will check in as much as possible, but most of my available mafia time will probably be spent on my moderating duties.

[Beasts of the Sea]

I've been really sick. Sorry for absence. I'll be caught up tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

Ok, first total re-read completed.
Current suspicions on EGL mostly, but still some on Fonz. I'll go look those over separately.

@Scott- I've played elsewhere, new to this site.

[Furcolow]

@Mod

Can we get prods on EGL and Feysal?
I normally wouldn't ask after 5 days, but they are both needed for questioning. Thanks.

[ThAdmiral]

What he said ^^

[Sotty7]

@Mod

Can we get prods on EGL and Feysal?
I normally wouldn't ask after 5 days, but they are both needed for questioning. Thanks.

EGL was prodded on Tuesday but hasn't responded, I am now replacing him.

Feysal decalred V/LA until today. I will prod him at the end of the day if he hasn't posted.

[Stephoscope]

Do you have opinions on anyone else?

Like you, I'm not sure I understand the Fonz wagon. I remember losing to him once when he was scum, though, so I'm going to go back and see if anything seems to match. Stay tuned.

[Beasts of the Sea]

Things to note after the flip:

Artem (i.e. vp baltar) and gonnano were both on mothrax/jmj (i.e. fonz) day 1. It is therefore unlikely fonz was on the same team as them.

The last two votes on the bunnylover lynch were gonnano and then egl. It is therefore unlikely EGL was on the same team as gonnano.

I can see the logic behind the first two statements since jmj/mothrax was getting to the threshold of being a viable counter wagon; but the second comment I don't think is sound because it falls into the WIFOM category. I haven't really seen actual suspicion cast in other games based (especially D1) for end of the wagon relationships.

Yeah, this is a great point, apart from it being utterly untrue. I made my vote for Furc when there was only one vote on Gonnano, and six on smargaret. The idea that I pushed Furcolow 'to save Gonnano' does not jibe with even a cursory reading of the game.

You are over simplifying the situation by only looking at the snapshot of when you first voted Furcolow. Even when gonnano's wagon was building you did not comment on it other than saying you didn't think gonnano was scum. Then you kept pushing at Furcolow for other game related reasons as to build more of a case even though his previous play has nothing to do with the reasons you were currently voting Fucolow (he lied repeatedly). What was the point of bringing up hammer claimed cops and talking about ongoing games other than to smear him? And the point about others meta defending him is disingenuous as well because I read the "meta defending" as not look at these specific behaviors in comparison with other games but rather the overall playstyle, erratic behavior, and unpredictability and not the emulation of the same things from previous games.

Finally, note that Gon flipped goon, not scum watcher, so a buddy would have known he didn't have real results to save him. Do you really think a buddy of Gonnano's there wouldn't have realized that he was going down, hard?

You make an interesting point about gonnano not flipping his claimed role. Do you think one of his partners is a watcher and he claimed those results or was he going for complete BS in hopes he was correct in nobody visiting the people he claimed? To answer your question what would the scum buddy do at the point, knowing he was claiming something false? The partner could:

• Call him a liar and say he's lying about his role;
  
• Hammer him without the claimed results, knowing whatever results he made were either totally fake or actual results from another team member;
  
• Avoid the thread and see what happens; or,
  
• Stall a little bit, be wishy washy on whether or not his real or not and hope that people wouldn't want to hammer a claimed watcher.

What does the fake claim of gonnano's have to do with gonnano's partner(s) knowing he is going down hard? Gonnano was going down hard regardless of his claim being real or not, which is obvious by the fact that his claim did relatively nothing to deter his wagon.

Or, you know, blatantly obviously genuine scumhunting. When lots of people say 'Bvoight today, Gonnano tomorrow' there can be several things behind it. They can genuinely think they're scum and connected to each other. They can think they are both scum, but completely unconnected. And, in particular,

they can be Gonnano buddies who are claiming to think Gonnano is scum with links to Bvoight, but looking to use a Bvoight town flip as an excuse to stop bussing their buddy

. I was suspicious of people making these kind of statements because I had a town read on bvoight, therefore either the latter scenario or lining up lynches were both possible motivations for those making those kind of comments. I wanted to pin these players down.

You actually had a town read on both, so in that context where and how were you scumhunting with that line of questioning? The bolded is exactly what I believe you to have been doing. You were determining the public opinion of those two to figure out the best way to push it through. Maybe I have it backwards and you and bvoit are partners, but asking for the suspicion level of the pair when both of them are town (in your opinion) is scummy because you should have been advocating for them being town instead.

^^How do you know the size of the scum team? In other words:

If we can't decide, we could always just lynch PeregrineV and bring that scumteam to 1 person

How do you know this is true?

Why are you just now bringing this up? The discussion and assumption that the scum teams have four people has been going on since at least yesterday.

I actually just found a flaw in my own reasoning about Feysal. If you're interested, ask me about it.

I'm interested. Please explain.

[Stephoscope]

Do you have opinions on anyone else?

Like you, I'm not sure I understand the Fonz wagon. I remember losing to him once when he was scum, though, so I'm going to go back and see if anything seems to match. Stay tuned.

I have done this. I'm not seeing a lot in common. Fonz is obviously a very capable player in any game, but in the game where he was scum he stressed defensiveness-isn't-a-scumtell and pairs analysis, whereas in this one he's advocated Lynch All Liars.

I am not saying this comparison clears him by any means...more saying that I went looking for evidence, and didn't find much.

[Lowell]

RL crisis too sad to write here. Hopefully will be back in two days.

[bvoigt]

RL crisis too sad to write here. Hopefully will be back in two days.

Wish you well.

[Feysal]

Back from Rome, back from V/LA. As it turned out, even sporadic access was wishful thinking, I haven't read anything posted since last Saturday. I'll be reading and responding after I've slept some.

[smargaret]

No, Feysal, you need to talk about EGL and why you all of a sudden don't think he's a valid lynch.