Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[Twistedspoon]

@TS: Again..why did you vote Neccessary Evil? Why is he mafia?

well it was mostly a pressure vote. Saying so would kinda defeat the purpose of it though. That and I haven't seen to much towness from him

town until proven scum or scum until proven town? Tough choice, but my vote vote before NE wasn't doing anything anyways (I think it was on Javert)

[Oso]

A bit later than I hoped for but I'm back (hopefully for a while).

@Klazam. How is M=W asking about Javert being a One-shot role-fishing? Javert had already claimed his role. Last I checked, asking someone about modifiers to their claim was perfectly acceptable and permitted in order to judge the validity of their claim.

Why assign a scum motivation to it? And why not include me as well. I asked several questions directed to Javert about his role as well.

And about Prosaurus, you will have to take my word on this pretty much but if I hadn't left the game to do some real life stuff, I'd have been asking about his(ender's) Post-130 myself.

Javert mentions it here. I mention it here. Juls mentioned it here. There may be more, those are the people I remember off the top of my head. Why no role-fishing accusations at us. Javert says it looks like a bad rolefish by Pro but dismisses it, I say it could be a soft claim and Juls asks for a full RC.

[Erratus Apathos]

No, Klazam is scummy. Guess what alignment stands to gain from not posting any content ever? Hint: it's not town!

So Klazam was not posting as a deliberate mafia ploy?
Despite lurking like that being something which brings a lot of negative attention onto a player.

A lot of negative attention? Really? I'm the only one that's attacked Klazam this entire game! How is that a lot of attention?

Lurking is an excellent mafia strategy. Towns that are willing to push lurker lynches are rare, so lurking is a lot safer than it has any right to be.

Tough choice, but my vote vote before NE wasn't doing anything anyways (I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

(I think it was on Javert)

Good lord people, he only has a vague idea where his own vote was. Could it be any more obvious that TS is scum?

[Twistedspoon]

well I can't be 100% certain can I? I'm only being honest about what I think
anyways, It was on javert, so there's no issue

I want to make a bigger post. Will try to do so later

[farside22]

@:Rhinox: Why is Ender an "easy target"?
And who are the scum that are speculating on his role?(in your opinion)

He just reads as that typical scummy looking townie in every game that is easy to attack and doesn't defend himself well. Easy for scum to go after. Low hanging fruit. My vote should tell you who I suspect for speculating.

In general, those were a couple weak questions IMO. Why did you ask them?

Why say this, then not follow up with Maxous questions to you?
Instead you go back to TS as scum. What reason do you believe TS is scum?

EA: Pro said I don't mind being vigged. You asked him why he stated this comment. Not hey vig, shoot me.
There is a difference in wording.
How do you know his attitude isn't fake? IE: You think one comment is fake, but not the other????


Klaz: I don't see anything but one on why you are voting Me=Weird
I also read your other games and ususually you have more information in your post on who you believe is scum and why

examples:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 62&start=0


http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 60&start=0

This latest post from you reads lazy scum.

Rhinox: Where is your town read of EA coming from?

[Klazam]

Interesting.

From my POV, it would benefit scum quite a bit if they knew whether Javert was a one shot dayvig or not. I didnt see a valid town reason to ask that question. Now, M=W's explanation involving a doctor seems quite contrived. If there was a doctor, He would know as much as the scum did.

If Javert wasnt a one shot dayvig, scum would want to kill him. There is no way for the scum to know right now. Therefore they would kill him, just to be safe. A rational doctor would see this and protect him (sadly, by me mentioning it, it wont happen, i'm sure.). In this, i do not see a town benefit to knowing that information. If Javert outs that he is a one shot vig, boom, the possible PR pool just was reduced by one.

This was my thought process when i made my vote.

Farside: I apologize for not putting more reasoning in my post, but i was pretty much very tired. It was reallly late for me.

Rhinox: I think i need to reread TS again, actually.

Oso: why specifically M=W and PS and not others? It's because of the way they fished, which i found scummy.

[Klazam]

@Jav: so why did you claim if you are a day-vig? why not keep it a secret so you could use it a later day when you have more information to make more accurate reads from?

I don't mind being Day Killed,

why might this be?

it was a reasonable enough question

nooo
that's rolefishing
what answer are you expecting? "I'm the cop"?

personally, no

however it may already be too late since you've already hinted that you're a PR :/

so you have one investigation eh? do you use it at night or day?

i can see a theme in this game, that everything is one-shot :/

I just looked at Klazam and he is posting elsewhere around MS for the past few days. He also said he was bad with day 1. I don't know if there is any truth to this and is worth looking into.

why not? Or would you rather I did it?

unless I missed something Javert specifically declined to say if his role was normal or one shot.

really? I'm sure he said it was one shot
or maybe I just thought that since a claimed vig will probably only get 1 shot :s

question: in theory might it be possible to have a daykill scum?

These are iso 11-17. I dont see anything scummy here. Asking whether the investigation is night or day, i think is a good question, unlike asking if he was one-shot. He asked Javert why his claim occurred at that time, which is a fair question.


That's all of substance i could find in these. Rhinox, would you mind explaining to me why you pointed out these posts?

[farside22]

Iso's continued:

Javert - first gut reaction is jerk.
This is my biggest problem with Javert

If you want to DayVig you should wait until we have pretty much confirmed scum.

I'll find out what he is tonight.

ender241, I hope you're getting around to explaining this.

Why the pressure for a claim? Wasn't the soft claim pretty self explanatory?
Now you have the unvote, while thinking. What were you expecting with this exercise?

Juls - As I said early and reread of Juls nothing really screams town. Plus there is the buddying I talked about with Rhinox which reminded me of our last game together.
There are post that say next to nothing of value (IE: Fluff)

As for prosaurus playing the newb card. Without discussing his ongoing games, I will just say that it is not a surprise for him to play the newb card, nor do I find it scummy. This is Pro's first non-newbie game. While I don't plan to allow him to get by on that without scum-hunting I'm not going to assume he is auto-scum based on it. It can be intimidating playing with experienced players as a very raw new player.

Talks about the way Me-Weird presents a case, which I don't get.
Most of my feel on Juls is meta/gut. It's also lack of content. She was one of few to make a case on someone else but it was weak.
null leaning scum


me=weird - + points to MW for breaking down the EA case.
This is in regards to TS statement of Ender hinting a PR:
Two things. 1. Why are you so against ender claiming/us finding stuff out about his role? 2. You're implying you would just take him at face value, ignoring possibilities of him being scum. Why are you so convinced of his towniness?
1. Did you read the light claim from ender why or what does a full claim gain the town (2) if he's scum fake claiming/hinting then he outs the real none of this happened soooo how is he scum?
I like your points on NE especially this:

First, he says he thinks the votes on ender are "ridiculous", but later on(when there's a wagon) he votes ender for including possibilities of javert being town, which as I have said multiple times, even though there are more possibilities of him being town, doesn't mean he is. The one where he's scum could still be more probable.

There is some back and forth between NE and MW that I need to read NE before I decide on a few things here:

And I see that the point is a stretch at best as the only thing NE stated was during the rVS stage here:

here
I found something in MW that I believe means he is town. I'm going to hold this one close to the chest.


NE: I don't' care for his vote or reasoning for voting ender. He does explain his reasoning to EA and further reasoning.
Do you think everyone on the Javert wagon is scum? One? more? My biggest complaint would be that I don't see many suspects for various reasons from him.
He thought Oso was scum and that changed. Now he has a list of 4 all of who was on Javert's wagon, but I don't see further reasons (except ender) for suspecting them.
Now he votes for TS.
meh read = null/uncertain
NE: Is your TS vote in conclusion with the Javert wagon. What about Pro?


Oso: I read him as town. This is gut feeling more then anything before I get into his post
I read his RVS as aggressive scum hunting early on, he has good points on why he believes ender is scum and gives good points on his belief in Javert's claim.
This all reads as intuition/reading the game and analyzing the game and players.
read: town

break time.
I took the day off do to lack of sleep. I should finish this today after a nap.

[Me=Weird]

Assuming these are directed at me.

1. Did you read the light claim from ender why or what does a full claim gain the town (2) if he's scum fake claiming/hinting then he outs the real none of this happened soooo how is he scum?

1. If you mean the "I'll find out what he is tonight", then yes. I still wanted a claim because it was possible he was scum and would claim something else. 2. Can you rephrase this? I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean.

[Klazam]

M=W: no comments?

[farside22]

Assuming these are directed at me.

1. Did you read the light claim from ender why or what does a full claim gain the town (2) if he's scum fake claiming/hinting then he outs the real none of this happened soooo how is he scum?

1. If you mean the "I'll find out what he is tonight", then yes. I still wanted a claim because it was possible he was scum and would claim something else. 2. Can you rephrase this? I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean.

1. I guess. I would assume either a cop claim with that comment or scum trying to out the real cop. I don't see anything else that fits.
2. I'm saying (badly) that if ender was scum fake claiming/hinting then wouldn't a real cop counter claim? I mean I saw it as ender either scum trying to out a cop or town that is the cop. Hinting alone I feel would have brought this out. I don't see it as ender scum at that point.

[Oso]

SCUM FOUND

Post-146:02 April 2005

..
Javert, is your day vig 1-shot?
..

Post-201:04 April 2011

Alright my role is.... One-shot cop.

Post-248:07 April 2011

..
Out of all the things in this game, you think what you perceive to be role-fishing to be the scummiest stuff in the game? Look, I can think of at least one reason for asking that off the top of my head. A doctor trying to figure out whether to protect a vig, which if not 1-shot, would be the best thing to do, or a 1-shot cop, when a 1-shot vig has already used his bullet.

Time line is WAY, WAY screwed up there.

When M=W asked Javert about being a 1-shot, ender hadn't claimed yet. That he tries to counter Klazam's role-fish accusation by using a "Helping a possible Doc decide between a 1-shot Cop and a used up Vig." scenario, well....that stinks.

Role clarification, trying to get the claimant(Javert) to contradict himself on role abilities, seeing if the claimant will balk at a full role reveal...those are all decent pro-town reasons to ask what M=W did.

That he justifies asking the question when called out on it by using evidence in the thread that wasn't there when he asked the question is not.

VOTE: Me=Weird

We've just been lied to folks. The "one reason off the top of my head" that M=E used to justify the question just doesn't hold water.

[Maxous]

well it was mostly a pressure vote. Saying so would kinda defeat the purpose of it though. That and I haven't seen to much towness from him

town until proven scum or scum until proven town? Tough choice, but my vote vote before NE wasn't doing anything anyways (I think it was on Javert)

Hmm well that does fit in with the pattern of thinking you have shown in this game.
I look forward to your longer post..


That is a very interesting case Oso has just presensted.
If Me=Weird flips mafia I will have to adjust my thinking a bit.

[Twistedspoon]

Right my thoughts from page 6 onwards; took me long enough :3

Javert's claim is easily provable. He already stated he would use this today.
Any doubts about this should be brought up if he "changes his mind".

When Javert first claimed I had assumed he would have used it by now. By the way he was swinging his claim around like a club I thought that he was going to use it soon. I guess it might just have been a ruse to stop lurkers lurking. Anyways, Javert, will you be vig'ing today still? If so, who are your scumreads?

Wow. I couldn't get on the site at all yesterday and now I'm greeted with a ton of new content. I'm getting caught up now.

then

UNVOTE: you're on now. As soon as your finished reading up, top scum please.

o rly? unvoting so soon? The slightest trace of NE and you unvoted, before any content of his too. Ah well, you've claimed cop, so i guess it doesn't matter too much.

ender241 voted Javert for not answering questions and Oso makes a compelling case for ender, but I don't think Oso is town and I'm not going to sheep his read whithout a strong town read on him.

What makes you think oso is not town (and therefore scum). You didn't really explain this and why you didn't include him in your contenders for your vote or top scum as Ender asked you to.

Oso, what i dislike is the fact that he says he is going to kill today. If you want to DayVig you should wait until we have pretty much confirmed scum.

I'll find out what he is tonight.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Necessary Evil stop lurking, start posting.

So are you a cop or scum?

And is there a reason why I should care about being Day Killed? I don't see one.

This post hit a bad note with me. If ender had accidently revealed his role prematurely, don't point it out for scum to find

claiming

now

means I get to actively enforce posting content.

Seems like a weak reason to claim vig so early; to stop a lurker lurking. :/
It's usually only millers that i see claiming as early as you did

Dayvig me then.

I don't understand why you posted this. to annoy javert, or do you not believe his claim?

4 strong reasons there why his claim is not false:

• No reason, that I can think of, for scum to claim just out of the blue like that, especially not a day role where we can see the result in-thread.
  
• He has committed himself in such a way that he can't really back out of it. So he's not bluffing about being able to kill. He can day kill.
  
• He has shut off his options. Rarely (I mean as in never) have I personally seen scum shut off their options as completely as that this early in the game.
• He never does mention vigging anyone who votes him.

From where I stand right now, Javert is exactly what he claims to be.

:goodposting:
It doesn't matter though really if his claim is false at this moment in time though, since he'll be making his kill before the end of the day

Hey Javert, you said you'd vig someone for 4 days without content?

Well Klazam has gone the entire game without content

, so you know what to do.

you want to vig klazam?
Wasn't he v/la

anyways, I don't like directing the vig. I can see scum doing that easily and with good reason to do so.

question: in theory might it be possible to have a daykill scum?

I've seen it in a theme game before.

so might it be possible to appear in a mini game? If so Javert might not be confirmed town even if he does vig kill today; especially if he doesn't get NK'd

Good game so far. Keep it up!

what the-
what is this supposed to mean?
We've had 2 PRs outed and no scum dead yet. We have no indication of how close we are to catching scum

Oh yeah, Twistedspoon is totally scum. Look at his posts between his Javert vote and his unvote. He doesn't attack Javert, he doesn't question Javert, he doesn't push the Javert wagon, he's doesn't do a single damn thing to Javert. He accomplished three things with his Javert vote, and those things were VOTE PARK, VOTE PARK, AND VOTE PARK. He was vote parking on Maxous earlier too, and he's already looking like he's vote parking on NE. I suggest we park a noose around Twistedscum's neck.

Why would I want to attack javert? Maxous was an RVs vote; better than voting for the mod like some of you guys thought it'd be clever to do
vote parking on NE? Sure, as long as someone doesn't outshine his scuminess in my eyes.

@ EA and ender are both town btw.

you know this how? Or does the unity my wagon provides confirm this for you?

anyways, I've run out of time for today :/
G'Night

[farside22]

@Oso: I had a bit different theory then you did with those comment from MW.

@Maxous: Any reason your not voting anyone currently? Or not pressuring anyone with your vote?

[Oso]

@Oso: I had a bit different theory then you did with those comment from MW.
..

I'd say go ahead with it but then I'd really like to hear what M=E has to say about it before anyone attacks/endorses/counters my last post.

But if you feel the need to, go ahead.

[farside22]

Pro - newb town - ugh so many things I want to say and put my IC hat on about.

First voting even anyone for any reason is good. It brings discussion and if someone hammers for no reason during the first few pages they are more likely scum.
Hence voting someone even during RVS is a good thing for info.
Pointing out a soft claim helps scum.
Seeing Javert respond to the same most makes me cringe if Javert is town as I see more scum motivation then town for pointing out the soft claim.
Also I have a question for you. Juls states you are in another game have you learned nothing on how to scum hunt or things that sound off/scummy or seen anything in this game that you see that feels or reads off?
Your 3rd point in your last point is a good start, it's more theory then anything but expand more.
Anyways reading Pro I read someone a bit lost.


Rhinox: The question you ask to TS about asking/specualing others roles. EA asked the same question as TS. Why point out TS and not EA?

- I think of Javert's comment about the questions in this game when reading Rhinox. He is very low under the radar, but when I see this and read TS I believe my first theory is wrong and I see more careful, planing and questioning from a town prospective

Actually, paying more attention to your iso, every post you've made from iso 11 to your current post iso 17, each and every one of those posts, the main topic of your post is speculating about someone's role.

Need to looks into this a bit

TS:
11. Ask why Javert claimed? I don't see this a problem with this question.
12. I pointed this out as well. I saw it as role fishing.
13. how is this role speculating?
14. is hypocritical, see iso post 12.
15. answering the question posed by ender
16. more role fishing exposer
17. and I see speculating.

unvote:
vote: TS

I still think EA is scummy. Klaz would be the person next on my list of scum. He's made some weak points in his read and view that do not add up to his past game behavior.
The points against TS far outweigh anything else. Role fishing, hypocrisy, more role fishing and floating by with no real case on anyone.

[farside22]

@Oso: I had a bit different theory then you did with those comment from MW.
..

I'd say go ahead with it but then I'd really like to hear what M=E has to say about it before anyone attacks/endorses/counters my last post.

But if you feel the need to, go ahead.

I would rather MW defend the case. My theory is more feeling/theory. I don't have an issue with him responding to it.

You should vote for TS in my view however.

[Me=Weird]

Klazam: If you were a doctor, would you protect a 1-shot vig who's used his kill and is just confirmed, or a 1-shot cop who's practically confirmed too, and has an investigation to make?
Oso, it's true that ender hadn't claimed, but…
Post-130:02 April 2011

…
I'll find out what he is tonight.
…

he had soft-claimed, and I made a correct assumption on what that meant if he weren't scum.

[Necessary Evil]

@EA: I'm surprised that you were grilling Klazam over lurking after the last game the three of us were in (it's completed, so no worries). At least he posted that he was V/LA this time. Why are you attacking him over it now?

@Rhinox: So you think ender is town based on his meta. How can we tell if he is scum?

@Maxous: PATIENCE! lets take care of obv scum twistedspoon first, then we can work out which one of {

Javert

, Oso, farside22, Me=Weird, Necessary Evil} were scum on the easy to wagon ender. EA and ender are both town btw.

Anybody on that list sticking out to you at the moment?

I'm here.

/end procrasination

I promise that i'm reading the game now, and will post ASAP

Heh. You come back right when we're thinking of day vigging you. Perfect timing?

@EA You seem to be defending Ender alot. Mind to post your main reasons you think he's town?

Based on the last game I played with Klazam, he has amazing timing for that sort of thing. You can't assume that he is scum because of it.

Thank you for proving my point for me. ender didn't think Javert was town when he voted for him (clearly) and made up the two town possibilities to cover his ass.

No no no. What I'm saying is that there is nothing to suggest that he made that up. The possibilities existed then, and he was probably aware of them, he just didn't think them likely. I don't see what makes you think he made them up.

It's not evident from his earlier posting that he ever thought that Javert was town, and if he was really thinking that Javert was town then it doesn't make sense to vote for him.

For the first point, my point was that Oso's case on ender was too thin and too dependant on EA being scum when the EA case was bad. That's a far cry from "he says he thinks the votes on ender are 'ridiculous'". The second point indicates that you're not understanding my case.

Really? I thought you used that word. Still, you were pretty critical of it all. Since I'm not understanding it, maybe you should clarify it for me?

After Oso voted for ender, ender posted about his theory that there were three possibilities regarding Javert (even though there is no indication that he was thinking that at all until that post). Then he votes me for "lurking" when I hadn't been absent long enough to be considered lurking by any reasonable standard. That looks to me like he was trying to find a vote so he would look more townish. Those two things together indicate a scummy overreaction to the pressure he was getting.

NE: I don't' care for his vote or reasoning for voting ender. He does explain his reasoning to EA and further reasoning.
Do you think everyone on the Javert wagon is scum? One? more? My biggest complaint would be that I don't see many suspects for various reasons from him.
He thought Oso was scum and that changed. Now he has a list of 4 all of who was on Javert's wagon, but I don't see further reasons (except ender) for suspecting them.
Now he votes for TS.
meh read = null/uncertain
NE: Is your TS vote in conclusion with the Javert wagon. What about Pro?

I wasn't suspecting you even though you voted for Javert because I thought that your reasoning was decent. ender stuck out from TS and Prosaurus at the time, but now TS is about as obvscum as you can get on day one. Prosaurus is still not really scumhunting, but overall TS is an order of magnitude worse.

[Maxous]

I guess that explanation from Me=Weird makes sense.

@Rhinox: I explained a lot of it in this post.
Along with EA trying to get Javert to shoot Klazam - Mafia tend to use lurking to put suspicion on players.

vote parking on NE? Sure, as long as someone doesn't outshine his scuminess in my eyes.

Scuminess? Where did this come from? You said it was mostly a pressure vote.

It's not evident from his earlier posting that he ever thought that Javert was town, and if he was really thinking that Javert was town then it doesn't make sense to vote for him.

Yeah, about this. The strong implication I got from Ender's post was that Javert is either scum or town being rude and Ender would be willing to vote for him for either reason.
It goes with that 'well if he is actually town it's alright to vote for him anyway' reasoning that mafia like to use to justify votes.

@Maxous: Any reason your not voting anyone currently? Or not pressuring anyone with your vote?

I'm unsure who to vote for at this stage.

[Oso]

Klazam: If you were a doctor, would you protect a 1-shot vig who's used his kill and is just confirmed, or a 1-shot cop who's practically confirmed too, and has an investigation to make?
Oso, it's true that ender hadn't claimed, but…
Post-130:02 April 2011

…
I'll find out what he is tonight.
…

he had soft-claimed, and I made a correct assumption on what that meant if he weren't scum.

Shit. Correct answer. As in it is the only answer that you could have given that points to town rather than scum, in my opinion.

UNVOTE: Me=Wierd

For those wondering, why so strong a post then an unvote?

I expected:
1)Denial. "I didn't do that." Followed by:
2)Counterattack. "You are mis-repping what I said. I said there was 'at least one' good reason, there are more. I just used that one."

Didn't happen. He did exactly what I said he did but that he countered the way he did without a lot of bluster makes me believe that is what he was thinking when he made the post. Soft-claim=Cop claim. Role clarification is what that was. That said:

@Javert, I agree with not claiming 1 or multi shot. Let scum have that cup of wine for the night

[Oso]

EBWOP: Forgot. @Farside, I'll take at look at TS. I haven't paid any attention to him so far this game.

[Juls]

Hi guys. I'm still not feeling very good but I did re-read from page 1 just to get my barrings again. Here are a few things I picked up on/ would like answered. I apologize if it is a bit disorganized:

@Rhinox

: In post 211 you ask prosaurus why he asked ender to claim. Why not ask me that question? In the post directly above I had told ender to claim.

@Me=Weird/Oso

: Oso, I thought your problem with Me=Weird's questioning Javert about being one-shot had to do with the fact that no one-shot had claimed yet. But then your reaction (post 271) to Me=Weird's answer doesn't support that. Can you explain what was wrong with the timeline if it wasn't the "one-shot" part because that's what I was seeing.

@Maxous

- I have already said this but Post 163 really bothers me and post 270 strikes me as the same. Lots of parroting going on from Max, not alot of individual thought.

@ender

- I am not liking post 212 where you say:

as i accidently claimed earlier and i thought it would be easier than people having speculations

Nothing about that claim was by accident. Really. I mean come on. That was a claim that was MEANT to be seen. I was kinda good with you until you said it was an "accident"

@TS

: Post 217 where he votes NE is scummy as hell. It was immediately after Me=Weird had voted NE and what's worse is that TS had posted since the last NE post with not a mention of NE. It's not the only time he has bandwagoned. Also, post 263 is a waste of my time. Never have I seen so many words without anything being said.

@farside

: In post 226 you say

ender claims one-shot cop. I've been in enough games that I rarely see a game without a cop and no counter claim, unless scum have a cop role which is more rare and usually in non normal games.

I think it would be epically stupid for a cop to cc ender on D1.
In post 257,

There are post that say next to nothing of value (IE: Fluff) Juls wrote:
As for prosaurus playing the newb card. Without discussing his ongoing games, I will just say that it is not a surprise for him to play the newb card, nor do I find it scummy. This is Pro's first non-newbie game. While I don't plan to allow him to get by on that without scum-hunting I'm not going to assume he is auto-scum based on it. It can be intimidating playing with experienced players as a very raw new player.

This post was in direct response to 2 previous posts which one person said pro was scum and the other said pro was town. I was weighing in on the debate. It's not rocket science. I was trying to make people go read his games without actually discussing his games to see that this is not a new trend with him.

My scum-reads right now are TS and Max. I have some hate going on for ender right now though with that "accident" comment. And something isn't right for me with M=W still. But I would rather pursue something more tangible.

Unvote, Vote TS

[Oso]

..

@Me=Weird/Oso

: Oso, I thought your problem with Me=Weird's questioning Javert about being one-shot had to do with the fact that no one-shot had claimed yet. But then your reaction (post 271) to Me=Weird's answer doesn't support that. Can you explain what was wrong with the timeline if it wasn't the "one-shot" part because that's what I was seeing.
..

Yes, deliberate on my part. M=W's posting did have a glaring contradiction in it from what I could see. Seemed like he was using things in the thread to justify something that happened before those things. But we do have Ender's soft-claim in there.

As I indicated(sort of) in my last post, I was more interested really in how he defended (his tone) rather than what he said in his defense, if that makes any sense.

He didn't react to my post or my vote of him in the way I would have expected to scum to act. The contradiction is there but he simply explained why it wasn't really a contradiction without getting overly-defensive.

The only real problem I have with it is that he specifically used "1-Shot Cop". That piece of information wasn't available to him when he asked Javert the question. But I can stretch that, without too much trouble, to being a player thinking a soft-claim is a cop claim and having that thinking confirmed. "1-Shot Cop" replaces "Cop" in his thinking.