Newbie 1087: Welcome To The Jungle (Game Over)

[RayFrost]

1. What good plays did certain players make?
2. What mistakes did they make?
3. Were you right about who the scum were?
4. Were you right about who the power roles were?
5. Do you think they should've lynched quicker or waited longer before they decided to lynch people?
6. How did different scum players act from one another?
(Note: These games are on the quicker side of newbie games -- ours tend to last about 18-20 pages on average.)

1. The winning team - they won. That was an extremely good play.
2. The losing team - they lost. Big mistake.
3. I have O.P. hax. Of course I was right.
4. Read #3
5. Who cares? It's the amount of information gleaned that matters - short days but a lot of information are better than long days that stall that game and provide no extra info, etc.
6. In case it wasn't already obvious, I haven't actually read the games. I dunno.

[RayFrost]

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

[RayFrost]

Also: KittyMo, jindori, and Xanatos are all town.

Discuss.

[RayFrost]

Vote ray frost

Even through i am town there is no way of knowing whos town first day with out bieng mafia. You probally through your buddy in there.

Good job with the distancing, partner. See? The pre-game talk is already helping you out.

[RayFrost]

Shhhh. Don't point this out to the mod, or I might be modkilled. Just trust me on my gambit here: they'll think we're town from this conversation for realz.

[RayFrost]

Rayfrost mafia and/or messing around discuss.

Statement of the obvious is obvious statement and this sentence is redundantly repeating itself. Discuss.

[RayFrost]

Rayfrost mafia and/or messing around discuss.

Statement of the obvious is obvious statement and this sentence is redundantly repeating itself. RayFrost is a genius. Discuss.

Your awesome!!!!!!!

[RayFrost]

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

o rly?

VOTE: RayFrost

Second scum found.

Your chainsaw was premature, toictaipan. Foolish fool fell fairly into my trap.

[RayFrost]

Ohey, jindori's following my genius plan of getting toxic lynched for my totally pro-town motives of wanting to kill off all the people that suspect me. Cuz I'm town.

[RayFrost]

I'm inclined to vote RayFrost purely on the basis of that posted image.. -.-

And so you fall right into line with my Xanatos gambit.

[RayFrost]

Unvote, Vote: Jindori

KittyMo is so freaking town that you must be scum for suspecting her. /logical fallacies ahoy!

Alternatively: KittyMo's a sparkly, glittering, cute little kitty. Why would you ever want to kill her? SCUM!

[RayFrost]

And so you fall right into line with my Xanatos gambit.

oh noes, another tvtroper :0

Alternatively: KittyMo's a sparkly, glittering, cute little kitty. Why would you ever want to kill her? SCUM!

Emotional blackmail eh? I like this wagon already

lolwut

Cuz I'm town.

lsdfkjmfkcvl;
*rage*

no need to claim on L-4 Compadré

well, not as town anyways

VOTE: Frost

...

"I'm town" is a roleclaim now? Geezus, the site meta's going downhill. Town != Townie = VT. Town = ALIGNMENT, Townie = ROLE. LEARN TEH DIFFERENCE AND YOU TOO CAN BE AS COOL AS ME.

[RayFrost]

Vote: tylerjarvis

Scum.

o rly?

VOTE: RayFrost

You know more than Ray does?

I just don't think scum would be stupid enough to say 'no, I know he's not scum'
However, I admit that's a wifom reason

therefore I approve of the toxic wagon. However, I'm still cool with the frost one for now (cool, frost geddit? xp)

anyways, you might want to explain yourself, toxic

This post is saying "I disagree with the reason you find this person scummy but I approve of his wagon... I'm gonna stick with this bigger one for now, though" - Nice Keeping Your Options Open, Scum.

[RayFrost]

You say that like I was the only one.

"well frosty did it too" *walks off*

yeah, that hardly stops you from being scum now does it?

Mudslinging = scumtell

Mudslinging = scumtell indeed. That's why you're scum. Well part of why. The other part is the mafia role PM sitting in your PM box. That's a pretty big scumtell too.

Here's how you're mudslinging:

You're going to great lengths to point out how toxic is scummy but are maintaining a vote on me while fueling the wagon on him when you're vote on me is essentially a vote based upon what is no reasoning whatsoever that could possibly be considered in any way serious (unless "lol emotional blackmail" is srs bznz, in which case you've got much to learn). Keeping a Serious-RV (a serious vote with RV-level lulzreasons) on someone when you're going to rather mentionable lengths to call someone else scum = mudslinging.

So yeah, twistedspoon is scum not town. Toxic and xanatos are probably town, kittymo is still

sparkly kitten, x aligned IC.

[RayFrost]

This post is saying "I disagree with the reason you find this person scummy but I approve of his wagon... I'm gonna stick with this bigger one for now, though" - Nice Keeping Your Options Open, Scum.

how Am i keeping my options open?

my vote

is

on toxic, whose wagon i approved of

Vote came after the post. Attempt to nullify my point = failure. Moving on.

[RayFrost]

'cuz I'm town' has no weight in a game of mafia

there was no reason to tell us that you're town so early unless you're paranoid scum

on a new topic, what is your opinion on toxic?

True.

Actually, there was and is. Aside from the fact I'm town, ofc. There's also the this thing called reaction fishing. Learn it. Live it. LOVE IT.

Prob-town because you're prob-scum and the fact the wagon shot through full steam ahead choo-choo with no resistance before me based upon relatively spurious reasoning.

[RayFrost]

anyways, there's nothing wrong with saying that i find 2 players scummy, but one more scummy than the other

if that's keeping my options open then why not?

So you find me legitimately scummy based upon my joking posts that happen to also be attempts to fish for reactions from those that can't read humor over the internet. Cool. Great reasons, truly astounding, etc.

[RayFrost]

You say that like I was the only one.

"well frosty did it too" *walks off*

yeah, that hardly stops you from being scum now does it?

Mudslinging = scumtell

Worth noting:

Misrepresentation = scumtell

Mudslinging is not what toxic did. He was making a rather good point (if inaccurate) of "he and I did the same things - how am I scummy when he isn't?" Mudslinging would be an attempt at trying to move the topic and suspicion towards me based off of it, which is what he didn't do it. So yeh. He didn't mudsling, and misrepresentation is a scumtell.

Choo-choo on teh spoon.

[RayFrost]

Eh? Could've sworn I had voted....

Let's amend that now.

Vote: TwistedSpoon

[RayFrost]

i like how your last 4 posts have been calling for my wagon yet you don't even vote me yourself

Hypocrisy there for you

you clearly want

other townies

to lynch me so you can keep your hands clean after my lynch becuase you know I'll be flipping town, scum

Fixed your spelling on hypocrisy for personal sanity.

Saying I think you're scum isn't necessarily equivalent to calling for your wagon. The difference? I'm not demanding other people vote you. I'm explaining why I was voting you (though I forgot my vote...)

notrly - my point about you was not just the whole you aren't voting him schpiel. Nice misrep there. You're getting more subtly with it, though.

lol. Bolded. Scumslip in your own attempt at calling me scum based upon still a complete lack of real reasoning.

[RayFrost]

UNVOTE,VOTE:RayFrost

, RayFrost has been making a large amount of accusations t'ward other people based on the fact that they suspect him or toxic. I still believe that toxic is scummy, but the way Ray's been posting lately...

Wrong. My accusations toward

one person

were regarding the method in which he suspected people. Not who he suspected. If he suspected billy bob joe teh scum de la scum but was doing it in the same way he is now, I'd believe he was scum as well. How people try to reason out their suspicion is a major thing as it is a very good indicator of motivation solidity of reads, sincerity of reads, etc. You're lack of really saying how I'm scummy is cute. Have a cookie.

[RayFrost]

It's cool, bro. You just haven't mastered the art of making jokes yet. Merely follow my lead, and you too can become a jokemeister. First rule in joking is make it

really

obvious. Like saying someone's town in the rvs. In newbie games, this is particularly effective for getting reads (not just a joke... reaction fishing) s the newbies tend to take you seriously and so you can get reads based upon their reactions. Your reaction was completely null, not scummy as people are putting it. I think the amount of suspicion peope are putting on you is more based upon the fact you were posting in response to them and I wasn't - I could have gotten pressure based upon whether I was able to post, this is an unknown. The fact of the matter is, what you did is not scummy. The fact you are being attacked over it and went completely undefended is evidence of the lack of

any skill at this game at all] town-motivation of at least one of those attacking you. As a result, I find myself believing twistedspoon (the misrepresenter of things and user of ad hom) to be scum. I find the votes on me cute, though.

[RayFrost]

i like how your last 4 posts have been calling for my wagon yet you don't even vote me yourself

Hippocracy there for you

you clearly want other townies to lynch me so you can keep your hands clean after my lynch becuase you know I'll be flipping town, scum

Something I remembered while I was here: there's still a difference between my lack of vote and your initial lack of vote on toxic aside from the fact I forgot to vote in contrast to your actively not voting. You don't have any people voting you (Aside from me). Toxic did.

[RayFrost]

ajolin's reasoning isn't misrep. It's just cute. "something's off about rayfrost's posts..." is just the right amount of cryptic not really able to substantiate my claim but wanting to put this vote down post that just brings the newbie scummer (scummer as in mafiascum member) smell wafting to my nose. Null read so far.

[RayFrost]

Oh, and it's "hypocrisy" -_-. I saw someoone put "Hippocracy", which is worse (We are NOT talking about Hippocrates or the Hippocratic Oath, people!)

Rayfrost does bring up a very good point, now that I look over the thread again, at least in regards to toxic's pressure, and because of said unnecessary pressure I will

vote Twistedspoon

. However, Twisted voted for toxic way back in ISO 7 (post 56), so your argument about voting is actually a little switched around, Ray. You've got the wrong information somehow.

Any defense, Twisted?

It's a minor point on the scale of things, tbh. The main point's more the fact he's been misrepresenting the reasoning toxic used as his method of being on the wagon rather than substantiating his claims with something that isn't inaccurate and the fact that he instantly goes "RAYFROST SCUMZ!!11one!1one!!!one!" upon my attacking him. Reads like a knee-jerk "omfg, must attack person attacking me to discredit him without actually eplaining why he's scum with anything remotely reasonable" reaction.

[RayFrost]

I have to agree with Twistedspoon. Ray defends himself and Toxic despite ray being under minor pressure, especially because the death of one townie wouldn't make a big dent in their ability to win, but the death of a scum... I could see defending Toxic some what, L-1 on the first day is pretty harsh, and it was my bad for not counting up the votes. I'm reminded of an old poof I used to use in TTT and Werewolf, if I turn out to be town, kill so and so, because that's the guy on my wagon. Honestly I'm thinking we kill Ray to see if he's town, then we kill Twistedspoon for wagoning him, and, if neither are mafia, you can kill me as compensation. It's a risky play, but I used to use it all the time when I started, and it was a 50/50.

Yeeaahhhh. You're saying that I shouldn't defend myself (lolwut) and that I should let toxic get wagoned based upon craplogic (lolwut) because townies can die without making a dent in the ability to win. Only part of this statement is correct (the fact townies can die without having a large impact on their aility to win early on in the game). Even with this being true, you should not let someone you think is town get lynched. Simple.

Killing people "to see if they're town" and then assuming someone's scum based off of that is just bad play. Setting up lynches without considering context / the scumminess of the players is terrible town play and transparent scum play, so either way what you're doing is bad play. By the way, taking such risks, if we're all town and blindly follow it, leaves town in lylo with essentially no information.

[RayFrost]

How do you know we do? We could have only one or the other, or we could have both. It just depends on if we have a RB (roleblocker) or not.

Note: we could also have none of them. Read teh rules.

[RayFrost]

Because the most likely to be scum from a town point of view would be ajolin or I, if twisted is scum. If ray is scum votes on toxic. So my sugestion would be to vote one of those two and it will clear more names. If one roles town vote the other. If both role town mafia has duped us.

so here's the paths in my eyes

twisted roles scum vote day 1/2 rayfrost roles scum day 1/2
vote ajolin or i day 2/3 vote toxic
vote ajolin day 3/4

Hopefully we have inspector to make it easier on us and to sort out whos scum or not. If we have docter it's going to be so much harder. If we have both then awsome.

I tried to keep this post as unbiased as possible but i know the twisted path is a little biased. I just hope we have inspector.

I can

explain

translate this:

If twisted is scum ajolin/jindori are most likely to be scum, and if Ray is scum then toxic is most likely. Lynch one of these two to get cleared names and then lynch the most likely people to be connected as scum with these names = best play.

This is wrong. Just. Terribly. Wrong. I can't even begin to express how wrong it is. It's ridiculous. Your can't base connections off of a single interaction in a single day. Blindly setting up lynches like the lot of you are doing now is

TERRIBLE

play. You should not ever set in stone in your mind who is scum with who and what lynches should happen. This will only lead to bad things when scum can easily take advantage of your set in stone mentality to manipulate the lynches away from themselves without ever needing to do manipulation.

[RayFrost]

The point is that it's almost always a guaranteed scum kill if the scum doesn't expect it. You usually don't pull things like that unless you are afraid you'll get killed in the night, or as a last resort before getting lynched so people will get the scum. It's hard to do this first day and have it work, but discrediting the strategy entirely doesn't make sense. And Ray you say not to set roles and associations in stone, but as long as you don't announce them, nobody knows what they are to use them against you. In this case the mobs know who we think is affiliated with who, and what flips point to which players, but it's not like we will actually use this information at this very second. I'd like to point out that we have a good sized deadline and we don't actually have to lynch(it's a risk to lynch, but at the same time, you could loose a valuable player to night kills) Damn, this game is a lot easier with PMing.

I discredit the strategy entirely due to the fact that you are saying you are so completely certain about this based purely on D1 play. This is way,

way

too confident. It's too early to apply a "these two people must have at least one scum between them, lyncheth thy scum" ideology. It may work in some instances, but it certainly doesn't work in this situation.

PMing makes the game less intersting, imo, but opinions and irrelevance etc.

[RayFrost]

You can vote yourself, ajolin. It's almost never a good idea to do so. Aside from that, I'd like it if dekes explained how my evidence for spoon-scum is just a bunch of "NO U!" when I explicitly laid out my case before twisted even really said anything about me.

[RayFrost]

Aside from twisted, I haven't gotten any good scumtells yet. I feel that ajolin's newbie, but haven't gotten anything else off of him. I feel toxic's slightly townish, jindori's null, voided's null, and Xanatos hasn't posted enough to get a read on.

[RayFrost]

I forgot to include you guys. Happens sometime.

Slightly town but it's better to get reactions from people by going "omfg, obv town" and the like.

In all seriousness, though... omfg obv town = Kitty and yourself at the moment.

The fact that I have no other

scum reads

is not equivalent to having zero other reads or indicative of tunneling. It's indicative of the fact that I haven't really gotten enough posting to read some/most of the players in this game.

[RayFrost]

Yep you can kill yourself. @ Everyone my computer broke down so i'm using my courses computer, hopefully i will be able to fix it myself by thursday. Shouldn't effect gameplay to much.

Hay jindori.

DayVig: Jindori

Claim or die!!!!11one!

[RayFrost]

As for your accusation, I'm simply focusing on dissuading Ajol and anyone else of that course of action. I tend to focus on one subject at a time, but please don't take it like I'm not trying to scumhunt.

Get your vote off, Ajolin. You're not helping anyone.

Hold up, hold up.

What "course of action" are you trying to dissuade?

[RayFrost]

What are your reads so far? Seems to me that you haven't really had any original reasoning for any of the ones you've stated.

[RayFrost]

I forgot to include you guys. Happens sometime.

Slightly town but it's better to get reactions from people by going "omfg, obv town" and the like.

In all seriousness, though... omfg obv town = Kitty and yourself at the moment.

The fact that I have no other

scum reads

is not equivalent to having zero other reads or indicative of tunneling. It's indicative of the fact that I haven't really gotten enough posting to read some/most of the players in this game.

Dekes. How is your point that I

have no other reads

reinforced by my stating

I have town reads

? Srsly.

Voided, reply to my question.

[RayFrost]

As for your accusation, I'm simply focusing on dissuading Ajol and anyone else of that course of action. I tend to focus on one subject at a time, but please don't take it like I'm not trying to scumhunt.

Get your vote off, Ajolin. You're not helping anyone.

Hold up, hold up.

What "course of action" are you trying to dissuade?

[RayFrost]

It reads like new-ish town that's trying too hard to me. Not town in of itself, but town due to the fact I feel the effort behind it and the motivation behind it is sincere.

[RayFrost]

Just as a minor point, I am still here and following, I'm just one to lurk while I try and get a feel for people.. my first game on this site, which doesn't help as I don't have any meta...

I must say though, I am feeling Town from Voided, it's mostly gut but I can't personally see anything that would mark him down as probably scum.. bewildered town perhaps.

Any scum reads? Any other town reads? What's your opinion on the myriad of cases laid out? Any posts that you feel are worth mentioning for emphasizing any of your reads?

[RayFrost]

If you can't see Voided's post from reading the thread, you either need your eyes checked or you aren't reading the thread.

Please perform the necessary actions to rectify either.

[RayFrost]

I can attest to jindori being a VI regardless of alignment. His stunt here was freaking stupid, but it's null on read. Also: NO DISCUSSING ONGOING GAMES. I pull the dayvig joke on people all the time.

Ajolin saying "I know I'm going to regret this but LOLQUICKHAMMER!" is really,

really

scummy to me.

[RayFrost]

What I want to know is why you lynched someone you'd already said you felt was townish in comparison to the other person (me). You just came in without any real reasoning and went HAMMAH.

[RayFrost]

I assume you mean D2, mod?

TP: please don't do game-content in bah post (like the claim thing) in the future.

I really,

really

don't like ajolin's hammer, but I feel that it's more of a not-used-to-site-meta / newbie issue than a scumtell. From my understanding, ajolin's hammering is the norm for where he comes from. Ajolin: in the future, it's kosher to wait for a claim before hammering. Doing otherwise is bad play unless the person is 100% confirmed scum (example: if twistedspoon got an investigation on scum).

Going into today, I really dislike david at this point. He's provided a minimal level of content, he hasn't really taken any stances on the players in this game, and he's generally been active lurking. His posts contain the information of his mostly null stances without the backing of analyses. I'd like it if you, David, provided a list of your top two scum reads

with reasoning

.

Vote: David Xanatos

[RayFrost]

Ray, you do have a point that it could be just newbtown and all, but look at what he's said after the hammer. It's pretty obvious that his main reason for doing it was pretty much for his own lulz. No one in their right mind should be THAT hopeful for their lynch, unless they're just desperate to get out of it, and Ajolin was in no such position when he hammered.

Vote: Ajolin

, and I hope you'll do better with your explanation this time.

Kitty: Well, looks like the threat of you being the NK is over for now. Mind giving us those reads Dekes asked for?

Jindori, anyone else: You, too. Top two scumspects.

As for me, my top 2 were Ajol and Jin, like I said yesterday, with Ajol being #1 and getting my vote.

Tell me. What is the

scum motivation behind both his action and him admitting his reasons honestly regarding it

? If you can't answer this, I am unable to approve of your vote.

:approval:

:approval: (my scumspects are david and xanatos)

[RayFrost]

*sigh* I hate it when I misread things.

Correction: Hopeful for the NK.

Ray: Getting rid of an active town decreases the likelihood of said town turning their eyes on him. The fact that Twisted flipped cop just sweetens the deal.

...

Then again...beyond that, I can't really think of why because that would also draw the eye of nearly every other player in the game, or at least more than one. I just think that the hammer was way to oppurtunistic and devoid of any form of prior thinking (disregarding later defense, just think of when he actually voted) to be townish in any way.

Can you point to how he's "hopeful for the NK" and how that would be a scumtell if he was? If he can be NK'd, he's town.

If he wanted to get rid of an active town, wouldn't he have made sure he at least had some semblance of reasoning rather than going "HERPDERPLOLHAMMER" in order to have a modicum of not-sacrificial play? I really don't see it coming from scum.

Precisely my point: it's too conspicuous. The opportunism is counteracted by the fact it's an attention getter. It would be an opportunity if he could've one it without much suspicion. The lack of prior thinking reads more town than scum to me. Think about it this way: scum plan their moves ahead of time and try to avoid suspicion. Town improvise and to an extent don't want to be suspected but are on the whole more busy searching for scum. Town won't have plans and setups on d1: the lack of premeditated hammering just doesn't seem like the caution scum would put in their game, especially new-scum.

[RayFrost]

I really don't like how jindori put Twistedspoon at L-1 like that. It was just

asking

for someone to come in and hammer vote. Although I'll agree that I don't think ajolin is scum. I just don't get a strong scum feel off of his hammer for some reason. Something about it seems... off, I guess.

For now, I'll be voting for jindori.
VOTE: jindori

What do you feel is the scum motivation behind putting twisted at l-1? A claim? Hoping for a premature and highly unlikely with almost no chance of happening hammer?

If it was the second one, why hasn't jindori immediately gone hard slam on ajolin here? The claim doesn't work since claiming is done when someone who isn't on your wagon says they want to vote you and ask for a claim, not when you're at l-1.

[RayFrost]

@Toxic if you really didn't like me putting at l-1 why didn't you unvote him. I noticed you were online when i did it. You could of unvoted. It really was bad that he was cop and i didn't expect that. But we can still recover.

Jindori, who do you think is scum? Why? I WANT SUSPICIONS AND LOGIC DAMMIT.

[RayFrost]

I'm not sure that I have a concrete top 2, but the major things bugging me right now are Jindori's active lurking toward the end of the day and David's lurkiness and seeming to forget about Toxic once the lynch no longer looked viable. But, I think Jindori's entrance post will be very telling.

ajolin: In the future, if you don't feel good about hammering, then don't hammer. In some cases, gut/intuition can see what logic cannot.

I'll go ahead and re-VOTE: David Xanatos for now.

Now that jindori's posted, opinion pl0x.

What's your feeling about voided here? Do you feel his attack on ajolin is sincere? If you had to decide to lynch someone right now who would it be and why? You were rather sadly lacking in anything really resembling suspicions D1 and I don't like that. I mean, you got some, but it was marginal. Your whole hiding of information D1 stuff doesn't seem viable to me: town should value the spread of information more than dying or giving the information specifically to scum. Scum being influenced by a single player's suspicions seems unlikely, so I don't get why you felt you had a great pull on what the NK would be.

[RayFrost]

Also I think we should look at which player got killed Dekes. What does this tell you, it says that scum was trying to set me up. My active lurking near the end of day 2 was because my computer broke down and bieng watched by a teacher is nerve racking. You can notice how my posting pattern changed when I said my comp broke down as well.

Anyway i think i will give a reading on Voided. I don't really trust voided that much. Voided just seems to be going for low hanging fruit (aka ajolin and I). Also he pushed the case on twisted the hardest, yet is outraged when twisted is voted off. Saying that twisted is almost certain scum and then claiming to want to keep him in longer. If he was certin scum why have hesitations about twisted being voted. Also another fact dekes brought up this. Look who died, by killing dekes you would of gained the most out of everyone. Suspicion is cast on me it's impossible for dekes to bring up the case again. It's just a win win for you.

NK analysis is a load of WIFOM. It's just as easily possible that scum decided to kill dekes to frame voided, who dekes suspected rather heavily. It's not really a great argument.

Being outraged at a premature hammer isn't really suspect, imo. Your arguing that voided should be completely satisfied with a lynch of the cop that happened without a claim, before twisted could reply to most of the case(s) against him, and with rather lacking quantities of content from both you and david. You should analyze for yourself ust how terrible your logic here.

[RayFrost]

Actually Jin, you only have one vote, and I know I won't be voting for you with the info I have now. Sure the l-1 was kind of a large slip-up, but I find Toxic and Voided more suspicious right now.

Citation needed.

Alternative saying: Reasoning. Now.

[RayFrost]

Scum being sacrificial is the epitome of bad play. 1 for 1 favors town. Sacrificial play is not logical.

True and true. That makes it a null tell, which means your case is based upon a bunch of null tells.

FoS: VoidedMafia

:goodlogic: is lacking, don't like that

[RayFrost]

At this point, I think voided's just barking up the wrong tree. Whether he's scum or not remains to be seen.

Voided, do you have any scum reads aside from ajolin? Assume ajolin is town: who do you suspect most?

[RayFrost]

I can potentially see jindori being scum making a gambit due to his experiences with me in [redacted - ongoing] + this game where he's seen me be balls to the wall(s) awesome with gambits and the like.

I just don't really see ajolin as scum being that feasibl. There's a certain limit to my willingness to suspend disbelief, and it stops with scum hammering omeone before a claim based upon terrible reasoning that is honestly put forth. He didn't even try to hide what he was doing.

[RayFrost]

Well given that he was my main suspect yesterday, he may have done that in order to link himself with me and deflect some suspicion.

And since people seem to be complaining about me not throwing out a vote, I'll just leave this on my current top suspect. (Uni exam tomorrow, so sue me.)

Vote: Toxic.

"I'm not going to actually post content and will instead OMGUS on some dude I had suspicion of yesterday without giving a case or doing anything that even resembles an attempt at being able to contribute"

Yeah. Scum. Jinori's probable partner due to him laying out a case on toxic but waiting until david came in and gave a vote. Jinori, you shouldn't follow your scumbuddy around on votes, it makes you obvious. Individuality would've been a good idea to avoid being so obv-obv.

Guys. Jindori or David. Pick one, either one. They're both scum in the end.

[RayFrost]

Lol. Not how it works. We lynch scum, we don't go "this guy flipped town, so you're scum for thinking he's scum and convincing us on the matter" - and that's assuming you even flip town.

Your post is as useful as your previous one except less so. At least there you actually voted (only useful thing in that post aside from the fact it reveals you're scum so we can lynch you).

Provide reads, content, reasoning. Making short lined posts with absolutely nothing at all content-wise is not pro-town. At least

try

to avoid seeming like mafia. Geezus. Game's aren't fun when scum is obv.

[RayFrost]

Considered that, as I've stated a couple times now, I have an exam tomorrow? I can provide you with a copy of the damned timetable should you be that pedantic. Would rather pass the exam that rise to your, rather poor, attempts to draw my attention. I've already provided my reasons for suspicion on Toxic in D1, no need to rehash it for those who can't be arsed reading.

You're still here, aren't you? I know you've got an exam tomorrow, but if you really have the time to make the three pretty much worthless posts you've made so far + catch up in the thread, you could have easily spent that amount of time instead posting once with content.

Don't bother replying to this post. Study. Pass your test. I'm not trying to make you spend your study time posting: I'm trying to make you actually post content when you

do

post, because if in the unlikely event you are town, content is of the utmost importance with posting.

In fact, content's important when you're scum, too. Just not as much.

[RayFrost]

Actually town also start bandwagons logic flaw there.

Your over emotional state to my comment doesn't seem town to me. Also in the beginning i vote hooped to apply pressure. To other people. You were just the most suspicious so i put most pressure on you. I said rayfrost contributed more but your doing OK.

But your scum and your trying to bandwagon me is kinda a scummy thing to do for future refrence.

"This ain't scummy when I do it, but ur scum for doing it"

[RayFrost]

So you decided to quote toxic below your response to the quote above but forgot to put in the quote tags or reply to the "quote" in question. Yeeeaaahhhh.... Either that or you were saying what he said at the end of your post as an attempt at sarcastic point-making and failed on a slightly above humanly possible levels.

[RayFrost]

Toxic is town. Jindori and David are the mafia. Everybody else is town because of this. GG.

[RayFrost]

Okay, reading it over again, I realize you're english is just absolutely terrible which leads to my misreading what you are saying. Lern2EnglishPl0x.

Jin's not as certain as scum as he was earlier guys.

[RayFrost]

Being chummy with people and defending people you think is town is not a scumtell.

1. Townies defend people they think are town
2. Some players (like myself) actively choose to be "chummy" with players. I'm chummy all the time. With everyone I like.

[RayFrost]

It's his d1 play that really feels like town to me. I feel the push on him from then was poorly logic'd, and the players in question who did it that are alive are actually rather scummy, imo. As a result, I don't think he's scum. Emotional plays are very, very commonly used even though they are bad, both in and out of newbie games, by town and scum. I think that's a null thing unless it's in tandem with bad pushes and stances and other things.

That said, I'm starting to doubt my jindori distaste here. I'm especially not liking voidedmafia's recent posts re: the toxic situation. It really reads like he's sheeping me but trying to lead the lynch to jindori over david. Voided: explain whether you think both are scum and why you disagree / agree with me on the matter. What do you think are particularly good points by toxic in the debate? o you have any opinions that

aren't

already being stated by me? Seriously.

[RayFrost]

Ajolin: how's that finding scum part of things going? Who do you think to be scum? Why? Got any people you feel are suspect but you aren't sure about?

[RayFrost]

Ajolin: how's that finding scum part of things going? Who do you think to be scum? Why? Got any people you feel are suspect but you aren't sure about?

Requoting.

DRK's :goodposting: so I think he's solidly town here.

I don't buy the concept that D would choose to avoid that considering it gave ajolin a rather townish read D1, so pulling the "lynch meh then ray" stunt is trying to copy the same effect, afaik.

[RayFrost]

Ray, not to good. This recent fight distracted me a little bit, go over Toxic's and Jin's points. Honestly, Jin still seems a bit funny to me. The hammer setup seems a bit off, with his reasoning being flimsy considering he didn't say all of why he did it. If there's anybody that seems scummy but I'm not sure about right now it would be Voided. His vote is somewhat stable, but his accusations are everywhere.

You shared a view with me and did some good posting. That earns you an

unvote

.

Summary of this post and jindori's next post:

"You agree with me about something I have yet to say, so you aren't going to attack me, and you'll support me, so I'll be changing my focus to the person you say you have slight suspicion of in order to avoid seeming like my vote is just gong to easy targets."

Unvote, vote: jindori

I'm willing to give DX a bye for now, considering he's been busy.

[RayFrost]

Ohshit. L-1,

unvote

nthx

[RayFrost]

You can still reply to my post.

[RayFrost]

You can still reply to my post.

lol i could but then what is the point to replying to a statement. It's your view on things.

"I can't actually come up with are buttal, so I'm going to say it's your opinion and hope people don't call me out on the lack of any form of defense"

[RayFrost]

Jindori's post is almost completely "NOOOOOO, DO NOT SUSPECT AN AJOLIN / JINDORI TEAM!!!!1!1!one!" with an added "ur wrong ray" and thinly veiled OMGUS on DRK.

I fail to see why indori would go through

so much effort

to disprove the speculation about who his scumbudy is save for the fact ajolin is his scumbuddy.

He suddenly states suspicion of the DRK player slot when his previous postings had minimal mentions of kittymo / DRK. Notice how this coincides with DRK listing the scum read on jindori.

Also in response to rays earlier post about me going to easier targets. I think i went to one of the hardest targets toxic. Then ajolin because that one post seemed scummy. I actually gave him time to respond to my post to put up a defense,

before i decided if i should vote him because he was a easy target

. Lol hopefully this was enough to anwser all your question. Also hopefully scum rushed onto my wagon like i planned. Anymore question and i be willing to anwser them.

Toxic was only a hard target after I defended him d2 and he started his :goodposting: (also on d2). You went after him D1 when the wagon on him had that new axle grease smell. Easy target.

Ajolin is/was an easy target, and mildly suspecting him an then dropping that suspicion is hardly much of any kind of real scumhunting in that regard. Bolded = scumslip.

KILL IT WITH FIRE.

Jindori, claim. Now. I have every intention of hammering you.

[RayFrost]

Thank you for admitting to being scum, ajolin. You've made it easier on all of us.

[RayFrost]

<3

Srsly tho, if you're town, I'll be freaking shocked. You shouldn't be pulling quickhammers like that. We take it slow-ish on MS for a

reason

.

[RayFrost]

But So far this game I've been having fun. That's what any game is about. I don't care if I get lynched as long it was a good ride. I will tell you now though, so I can go on record, that I am vanilla town.

Having fun is the key point of the game, yes, but being good at a game and improving helps make it fun for everyone, yes?

another tip: you shouldn't be claiming prematurely. You've confirmed yourself as not-doc if we have a doc in the setup and you actually

are

town, which is harmful to the town and helpful to scum.

[RayFrost]

Voided=Raging. Rage over a game=lulz.

The anger is actually rather low on VM's part... you should see some of the rageposts here.

Seriously, though, the game is a game but should be taken with a modicum of seriousness if only for the purpose of providing an enjoyable time for

everyone

. Playing badly on purpose minimizes the enjoyment of players and probably indicates that this game isn't for you: you lack the interest necessary to take it as a game but also strive to make the game enjoyable for everybody. Mafia is a communal effort as both trying to win and having fun requires the players in the game to participate towards these goals.

[RayFrost]

I'd like a mass claim.

Here's how it works: we each choose our largest suspect, and the person with the most suspicion (3/5 in this case) has to claim first. That person then chooses who claims next, and that person chooses next, etc.

Ajolin is my top suspect here.

[RayFrost]

I find ajolin's suspicion of toic here to be beyond ridiculous into the realm of "... wut?"

I just can't make sense of his play, but I don't have any real scum reads aside from him (other than DX), which means I'm stuck with two people I think are scum. I'm willing to gamble on ajolin scum here, as the odds seem in my favor.

Vote: Ajolin

[RayFrost]

GG guys.

Voided, that last post was unnecessarily offensive. Ajolin's a newbie, he's learning.

It's appropriate to gloat, but being rude to other players in the way you were with that post is highly, highly frowned upon. Don't. Do it. Again.

And here's the mafia qt for those of you that want to see my brilliance. /lolsarcasm

[RayFrost]

I also included in the QT some commentary that I knew would be seen post-game by some of you. Please take what I said into account for future games.

For TS: although you were correct in reading m as scum, your reasoning behind it was terrible. Please try to avoid getting OMGUS-vision.

The toxic wagon was based off of spurious reasoning, and it was very, very easy for me-scum to get townie points from cutting it off. Try to avoid giving people town points based upon breaking down such terribad wagons. They're terribad, so both scum and town will defuse them if they choose to do so.

[RayFrost]

By the by, this is an image representation of my jungle mafioso self:

[RayFrost]

told you ray was scum ¬_¬

then you guys hammered the cop before I could claim

For TS: although you were correct in reading m as scum, your reasoning behind it was terrible. Please try to avoid getting OMGUS-vision.

It wasn't omgus

it was

'cuz I'm town'

etc.

You do realize that the "cuz I'm town" comment was 1) a joke and 2) not even a role claim... I hope. Cuz yeah. It was a deliberate joke. A rather obvious one I might add.

[RayFrost]

Ohey, jindori's following my genius plan of getting toxic lynched for

my totally pro-town motives of wanting to kill off all the people that suspect me.

Cuz I'm town.

Should've been the hint.

[RayFrost]

eh

my methods of scumhunting are unothodox but effective

they work but they aren't official tells

hopefully next time I won't get hammered page 5 as cop and we can have a real challenge

It's not really "effective" to think someone is scum for making a joke like that. I've done it as scum and town. I do it deliberately as both alignments. I like my RVS to be full of fun. That said, I can't really say anything else about your play as you

did

get roflhammered.

By the by, you'd have died n1 if you didn't get lynched because of your irrational but still heavy suspicion of me, so yar.

Still would've saved dekes from the boom, though.

[RayFrost]

When you self-voted, I actually started writing a post that said...

From a town perspective, ajolin should unvote and toic should as well. Unless you are almost 100% certain the person you're voting is scum, voting early in lylo is a terrible, terrible idea. Don't do it. We should also mass claim [insert my mass claim post that I had here]

From a scum perspective:

Vote: Ajolin

GG

[RayFrost]

The initial letting him off was actually proper on my part, as it was a sincere mistake as per not knowing proper play.