LynchMePls wrote:
So on Day four of a large theme game, other than your Furc pushing, you've commented on Feysal and EGL. But you're not hiding behind Furc. Yeah, ok...
I really don't understand what you're pushing here. I've commented on as many different players today as anyone alive.
Stephoscope wrote:Scott Brosius wrote:
Do you have opinions on anyone else?
Like you, I'm not sure I understand the Fonz wagon. I remember losing to him once when he was scum, though, so I'm going to go back and see if anything seems to match. Stay tuned.
OH HAI "I don't really find Fonz scummy, but I'll look for an excuse to jump the wagon if it gets close to lynch."
Beasts of the Sea wrote:.
The Fonz wrote:Yeah, this is a great point, apart from it being utterly untrue. I made my vote for Furc when there was only one vote on Gonnano, and six on smargaret. The idea that I pushed Furcolow 'to save Gonnano' does not jibe with even a cursory reading of the game.
You are over simplifying the situation by only looking at the snapshot of when you first voted Furcolow. Even when gonnano's wagon was building you did not comment on it other than saying you didn't think gonnano was scum.
No, I'm not. You contended that I was pushing Furc to save Gonnano. I was using the exact same arguments to push Furc when Gonnano was at threat as when Smargaret was at threat. The Gonnano wagon was available when I voted Furc first, but I preferred the Furcwagon. To my mind, when you accuse someone of 'pushing X to save Y' it implies that saving Y is the major motivation behind your push of X. And that doesn't make any sense since I was pushing Furc with the exact same line of reasoning I was before Gonnano was in danger.
Incidentally, I never said I didn't think Gonnano was scum. I had a neutral-ish, mildly scummy read on him, but thought others were much scummier and that the case on him was overblown. I said I thought Bvoight was explicitly town.
BOTS wrote:Then you kept pushing at Furcolow for other game related reasons as to build more of a case even though his previous play has nothing to do with the reasons you were currently voting Fucolow (he lied repeatedly). What was the point of bringing up hammer claimed cops and talking about ongoing games other than to smear him?
To point out that I am well aware of Furc's rep for idiocy and erratic play, and that that wasn't why I was voting him: specifically, that I felt his play in this game was specifically scummy even taking into account my meta knowledge of him, because a) Despite all the stupid things I'd seen him do, lying as town wasn't one of them and b) his lies in this game seemed particularly survival-orientated and therefore scummy: claiming BP has obvious motive for scum wanting to avoid potential rival scum's nightkills, and claiming doctor when caught out seems designed to avoid getting lynched, and c) he didn't change his claim spontaneously, as you might expect someone just being erratic to do; he changed it in response to being caught in a lie, which is what you'd expect scum to do.
And the point about others meta defending him is disingenuous as well because I read the "meta defending" as not look at these specific behaviors in comparison with other games but rather the overall playstyle, erratic behavior, and unpredictability and not the emulation of the same things from previous games.
It's not disengenuous at all. Specific VIs have specific ways of being VIish. Early ABR lied about his role as town all the time. MafiaSSK lurks like a mofo and doesn't give content. Other VIs omgus constantly or sheep all the time. You can't throw a generic 'VI' blanket over someone and therefore allow them to do anything antitown they want.
BOTS wrote:The Fonz wrote:Finally, note that Gon flipped goon, not scum watcher, so a buddy would have known he didn't have real results to save him. Do you really think a buddy of Gonnano's there wouldn't have realized that he was going down, hard?
You make an interesting point about gonnano not flipping his claimed role. Do you think one of his partners is a watcher and he claimed those results or was he going for complete BS in hopes he was correct in nobody visiting the people he claimed?
The former is only really possible if LMP is his partner and decided that he was going down despite the claim so he might as well get some town cred. If the scum had actual watching results and LMP wasn't his partner, he wouldn't have got caught out on his claim.
To answer your question what would the scum buddy do at the point, knowing he was claiming something false? The partner could:
- Call him a liar and say he's lying about his role;
- Hammer him without the claimed results, knowing whatever results he made were either totally fake or actual results from another team member;
- Avoid the thread and see what happens; or,
- Stall a little bit, be wishy washy on whether or not his real or not and hope that people wouldn't want to hammer a claimed watcher.
What does the fake claim of gonnano's have to do with gonnano's partner(s) knowing he is going down hard?
Claiming BS results and hoping no-one counterclaims them is incredibly risky relative to claiming actual watching results.
BOTS wrote:Gonnano was going down hard regardless of his claim being real or not, which is obvious by the fact that his claim did relatively nothing to deter his wagon.
If you really believe this, then why do you think it was scummy
[quote="BOTS"}
The Fonz wrote:Or, you know, blatantly obviously genuine scumhunting. When lots of people say 'Bvoight today, Gonnano tomorrow' there can be several things behind it. They can genuinely think they're scum and connected to each other. They can think they are both scum, but completely unconnected. And, in particular,
they can be Gonnano buddies who are claiming to think Gonnano is scum with links to Bvoight, but looking to use a Bvoight town flip as an excuse to stop bussing their buddy
. I was suspicious of people making these kind of statements because I had a town read on bvoight, therefore either the latter scenario or lining up lynches were both possible motivations for those making those kind of comments. I wanted to pin these players down.
You actually had a town read on both, so in that context where and how were you scumhunting with that line of questioning? The bolded is exactly what I believe you to have been doing. You were determining the public opinion of those two to figure out the best way to push it through. Maybe I have it backwards and you and bvoit are partners, but asking for the suspicion level of the pair when both of them are town (in your opinion) is scummy because you should have been advocating for them being town instead. [/quote]
I didn't claim a town read on both. The more town of the two imho (Bvoight) was the one people were trying to lynch first. The bolded doesn't even make sense. You think I'm scum with Gonnano, and was trying to use the 'Well bvoight was town so now I don' suspect Gonnano no more' kind of argument argument when I made quite clear I THOUGHT BVOIGHT WAS TOWN IN THE FIRST PLACE, and therefore never bought into any kind of 'Bvoight and Gonnano' theory?
Also, it never hurts to ask people to put their reasoning behind 'X, then Y' statements out in the open. It's easier as you put it to 'advocate for someone being town' when you know what the case people are trying to make on them is.
