Open 300 - Mafia on Midol (Town Wins!)

[LlamaFluff]

;_;

Obviously town people only in this alliance. That DH wagon was on probably town since its early stages. You actually never made the turnaround on the people who look really bad on it, so you dont get the townpoints from it. Simple really. Sudo vote is ok, but it took way to long to come around and it seems to be unrelated to what got kicked up.

Sudo or Socio, lets pick one and take it to the bank.

@Fate - You play a way that disrupts the more calm town dominating playstyles from what I have seen. So while you have good play for most people, your style actually can damage players (town or not) who dont think like you. Ultra-aggro is hard for me to play with because there never is a break to really stop and get in a few questions at key times because action is continually being pushed, forcing me to play on the fly, which unless I have similar reads to what you are pushing, is a pain.

[Fate]

Just because I push a wagon for information further than most people doesn't mean I didn't eventually make the correct: "Ok DH is obvtown, time to reassess" conclusion.

But fine.

Have your lil "Alliance" without me.

JUST WAIT TILL SPYREX GETS HERE.

[LlamaFluff]

I cant wait for Spy to get here. He is in the alliance already.

You pushed the wagon and then fell off it, but your reaction really didnt seem based on that information that you got off it is my problem.

[Cyberbob]

I pressured the hell out of DH, he got a wagon on him, plenty of reactions were gained. If SpyreX replaces him that's an unintended beautiful consequence

no you were and are being a huge twat with an overly inflated opinion of yourself

your ~sick pressure bro~ consisted of just being a shit. like that's all you were doing. anyone can get a rise out of anyone by simply being a shit.

You act like I sit here and post nonsense like a VI and have shit for reads, and can't even put a comprehensible sentence together.

i didn't say you were stupid or bad at mafia i just said you were being an unfun shit. which you were. pushing someone to the point at which they literally replace out is not in the spirit of the game regardless of your alignment or wincon or that of the other player. stop throwing sand at the other kids, go sit in the timeout zone.

[Fate]

If you can ISO me and show me MULTIPLE sand throwings, aka me calling DH a shit player, a bad posted, a worthless fuck, ETC. then I'd be inclined to take my punishment.

I never resorted to insulting his intelligence or his character. Once, and only once I believe, I said he was one of the weaker players on the player list, which is a harsh truth given his reads.

Besides that I was actually challenging his play, calling him out on the things he did and how they were anti-town and subpar, and pushing him "as scum" for it.

But enough banter. Time for sleep.

[Cyberbob]

Yeah...go back to the newbie queue. You make a great D1 lynch

Dissonance eh? Oh so tthis is the "fling buzzwords at people voting me" defense. LOl

@Thor: I pick on the little guys because I'm a bully and an asshole. They're weak and not fit for this game, so I kill them.


*SHRUG*

^Hider Claim?

"ZOMG ROLEFISHING VOTE: FATE"


"HAH! NOooooooooooooooo I was WAITING for someone to jump on me for that! IT WAS A GAMBIT TO CATCH OPPORTUNISTIC SUCM BECAUSE ONLY SCUM WOULD PUSH SUCH WEAKTELLS LIKE THAT IN A GAME OF THIS CALIBER. TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLL"

^You'd wagon the hell out of me in that situation, right?

SO WHY NOT.

DEMONHYBRID. Its the same damn thing.

did you want your punishment short and sharp or long and drawn out

[AGar]

@AGar - please describe for me the type of player you believe DH is. To be specific would you call him more gut or detail oriented and do you think he plays more emotionally or logically?

I don't do meta. You're aware of this. Why are you fishing for a meta-read from me, might I ask?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Crazy

I don't buy into the "OMG DH freaked and replaced = obvtown" stance, so I'm not going to drop my suspicion there. But Crazy has been really trying to push himself against that DH wagon in a bizarre way. I don't like trying to debunk the wagon because the player is "too weird" to be scum. Bullshit. Find a real reason. And "intentionally" dropping a scumtell isn't good enough. You pushed weak reasoning against the wagon, but also decided then to not utilize your vote at all. Even now you're weakly nibbling around trying to find a wagon to get behind without doing anything yourself.

DH laid a shit trap that looked like scum trying to bait a god damned mislynch. He was wagonned because of it. He cracked under pressure and replaced out. What's telling about that at all? What's to say he's not scum freaking out about getting busted? Seriously, why is everyone just flipping "Yep, he's totes town," for that... Last I checked extreme emotion outbursts weren't a town-tell, and if they are I'll just freak out like that next time I get run up.

[AGar]

EBWOP:

Apparently I'm wrong. I didn't check the VC and didn't see Crazy's vote on Sudo. Still, you simply sheeped to another wagon, saying you wanted to look around first.

[Thor665]

@AGar - please describe for me the type of player you believe DH is. To be specific would you call him more gut or detail oriented and do you think he plays more emotionally or logically?

I don't do meta. You're aware of this. Why are you fishing for a meta-read from me, might I ask?

Well, there's meta and than there's playstyle, which is part of meta but also a distinct flavor. Basically you were pushing a "poor logic, dawg" case on a player that I would not be surprised to see poor logic come from if he was town, which really invalidates the whole case you're making. I wanted you to justify the case push, really.

I don't buy into the "OMG DH freaked and replaced = obvtown" stance, so I'm not going to drop my suspicion there.

Any reaction to my DH townread as stated that had nothing to do with his replace out?

DH laid a Smurf trap that looked like scum trying to bait a god damned mislynch. He was wagonned because of it. He cracked under pressure and replaced out. What's telling about that at all? What's to say he's not scum freaking out about getting busted? Seriously, why is everyone just flipping "Yep, he's totes town," for that... Last I checked extreme emotion outbursts weren't a town-tell, and if they are I'll just freak out like that next time I get run up.

Really, I would say the clarity of the town energy from his trap was the earnestness of it. It's really quite simple;

1. He was scum who was laying a very obvious and very weak trap and thought town would fall for it and allow him to wagon.
2. He was town who laid a very obvious trap and honestly thought it could catch scum.

Your "tell" of him being scum is equally applicable to both scenarios, and thus begs the question of why you draw conclusion 1 over conclusion 2. I, personally, look at his reaction to being "caught" and feel like he really believes in his tell and is offended no one else sees the logic. He focused on trying to explain the logic of the tell loudly and proudly, and made himself a vast center of attention by declaring other people wrong and having play that was...unoptimal for a scum. His replace out adds to the read, but the town energy seems pretty clear to me prior to that. Then pretty much he gets real world offended at Fate and somewhere in there other people start piling on the wagon as though it has teeth. What am I missing?

[Punkin]

If only one of our heads lurk, will y'all lynch half of us?

Hrm... Thor makes my eyes glaze over. Gut says town but whatever. As much as I agree with Sudo being in the hotseat, failing to place the L-1 vote is hardly valid as a scumtell, and aggressively pursuing that stance could lean to looser claims. Also, I don't like boiling DH down to the subject of the TARP!, because it isn't that simple.

A lot of what remains on this page is people calling Fate a bully. Yeah. We all know Fate can be abrasive. Unless any more of you have thin enough skins to rage-quit over it, we can probably save the intervention for Forum 62. I have seen enough e-peens today.

This Sudo wagon seems to have run its course. Any more takers?

Mod: can we get a VC pretty please?

[Cyberbob]

This Sudo wagon seems to have run its course.

lmao

[Punkin]

Forgot something:

@Llama:

Mind explaining your SP read? I don't get it.

@bob:

What did I miss a vote or something? Seems like it's been stalled @ L-4 for half the day.

[Cyberbob]

it's okay for a wagon not to do much in the course of just over 24 hours fyi

[Punkin]

Not in my world it isn't. At this point I'm just waiting for a vote count.

Any preference for who we do next?

[SocioPath]

socio is scummy because
-he agrees with sudo on the thing that sudo is scummy for

Sudo was called out for stupid shit that half of everyone else in the game is/was doing.
Guess people thought Sudo was the easiest target for that sort of thing.

You act like I sit here and post nonsense like a VI and have shit for reads, and can't even put a comprehensible sentence together.

i didn't say you were stupid or bad at mafia i just said you were being an unfun shit. which you were. pushing someone to the point at which they literally replace out is not in the spirit of the game regardless of your alignment or wincon or that of the other player. stop throwing sand at the other kids, go sit in the timeout zone.

Before I go, fuck you, Fate, for calling me a weak player.

3. That was the dumbest point anyone has ever made in the history of mafia.

Just because DH pulls a StarBuck 'everything is a personal attack against me so FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU ALL' doesn't mean the people that got him there are to blame at all.
I almost think I pushed him over the edge more, despite no attacks of the personal game playing nature towards him.
And I am fine with this.

LF has had enough exposure towards me, coupled with his alliance of people that haven't or minimal at best, seems that his push towards me is either to gauge reactions from those people, or has more shady motives.

Also I don't see the DH love because he claimed after demanding to be replaced.

Although if Spy replaces him that is fine, because I can read him like a book.

[Thor665]

As much as I agree with Sudo being in the hotseat, failing to place the L-1 vote is hardly valid as a scumtell, and aggressively pursuing that stance could lean to looser claims.

That's not the scumtell I'm advancing, though it's perhaps a symptom of the scumtell I'm advancing.
The case is aggressive active lurk and avoidance of opinions tendered - of which lack of being willing to put out a vote is one of the multiple instances I've noted. If you think that's my case and don't like it, but agree with Sudo being in the hotseat - why do you support Sudo being in the hotseat?

[AGar]

@AGar - please describe for me the type of player you believe DH is. To be specific would you call him more gut or detail oriented and do you think he plays more emotionally or logically?

I don't do meta. You're aware of this. Why are you fishing for a meta-read from me, might I ask?

Well, there's meta and than there's playstyle, which is part of meta but also a distinct flavor. Basically you were pushing a "poor logic, dawg" case on a player that I would not be surprised to see poor logic come from if he was town, which really invalidates the whole case you're making. I wanted you to justify the case push, really.

He used shit-tastic logic knowingly. I fail to see a town-motivation for that.

I don't buy into the "OMG DH freaked and replaced = obvtown" stance, so I'm not going to drop my suspicion there.

Any reaction to my DH townread as stated that had nothing to do with his replace out?

I'm aware of it, I disagree with it, but you at least have something to back it up with other than an emotional outburst.

DH laid a Smurf trap that looked like scum trying to bait a god damned mislynch. He was wagonned because of it. He cracked under pressure and replaced out. What's telling about that at all? What's to say he's not scum freaking out about getting busted? Seriously, why is everyone just flipping "Yep, he's totes town," for that... Last I checked extreme emotion outbursts weren't a town-tell, and if they are I'll just freak out like that next time I get run up.

Really, I would say the clarity of the town energy from his trap was the earnestness of it. It's really quite simple;

1. He was scum who was laying a very obvious and very weak trap and thought town would fall for it and allow him to wagon.
2. He was town who laid a very obvious trap and honestly thought it could catch scum.

Your "tell" of him being scum is equally applicable to both scenarios, and thus begs the question of why you draw conclusion 1 over conclusion 2. I, personally, look at his reaction to being "caught" and feel like he really believes in his tell and is offended no one else sees the logic. He focused on trying to explain the logic of the tell loudly and proudly, and made himself a vast center of attention by declaring other people wrong and having play that was...unoptimal for a scum. His replace out adds to the read, but the town energy seems pretty clear to me prior to that. Then pretty much he gets real world offended at Fate and somewhere in there other people start piling on the wagon as though it has teeth. What am I missing?

I jumped to 1 because I fail to see how anyone who isn't a VI could honestly believe they caught scum on that trap, and then his continued press on PZ as "obvscum" from there-on-out reeked of him desperately trying to push a funny lynch through. Just because one plays a bad scum game, does not make them not scum. His whole play just read as really really off to me.

[Thor665]

He used Smurf-tastic logic knowingly. I fail to see a town-motivation for that.

And yet there are many players like [insert name of your VI of choice] that are town statistically as often as "good" players. But I get the feeling we're either hitting (or soon will be) a brick wall in this vein.

What's your read on Sudo and Socio?

[Punkin]

@Thor:

I didn't think that was the entirety of your points against Sudo. Rather, it was one of two places that I didn't like your stances. I already stated my problems with Sudo.

AGar seems oddly focused right now. Maybe he just feels weird because he hasn't recognized me? Keeping my eye on him fer sure.

Xine left some notes, including points against Llama and AGar and a cite demonstrating that Sudo and Thor are not scum together. I think it's even more clear that DH and Thor are not scum together, but I'm not really that interested in links before we have info. Xine also noted Fate's #214 as a scumslip, which is lulzy; she's never played with him, obv.

[Crazy]

@AGar, if you still think DH is scum, then why did you change your vote?

Why does defending DH make me scum? Even if you disagree with me, why does it make me

scum?

If you want to know why I say DH is obvtown, here:

1. His weird "trap" thing reads more like ambitious town than opportunistic scum. Scum would normally find less controversial reasons to suspect someone, as well as be far less likely to openly put themselves in the spotlight that early.
2. An emotional outburst is indeed a town-tell. Town are more likely to get frustrated when they are wagoned than scum are. That doesn't mean you should do it, but it is still a town-tell.
3. While he was being tunneled, his focus was on pointing out scum.
4. And the clincher for me, he claimed VT after he already requested replacement, which would mean if he was scum he ruined any chance for his replacement to fake-claim a power role.

And to be honest, your vote on the DH wagon was the most suspicious IMO. It was just a big quote wall with random retorts thrown in. So really, at first glance it might

look

like something resembling a case, but it really wasn't. Plus that weird comment where you said I was "distancing" DH - too much certainty regarding associative tells this early in the game doesn't sit right with me. And I totally don't understand why you left the DH wagon if you still believe he is scum.

As for Sudo_Nym, his stubbornness of sticking to his unorthodox philosophy in this case is giving me a town vibe. Usually when people tell you to scum-hunt,

you do it

! The fact that he's

not

doing that makes me think he actually believes what he's saying. And though I disagree with him

now

, I've actually argued a similar point in a game a while ago, Explosiva Mafia (I was town).

So UNVOTE: Sudo_Nym
VOTE: AGar

And

FoS: Lurkers

for the win.

[singersigner]

Votecount 1.3

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Punkin (1): Nobody Special
Cyberbob (0):
AGar (2): Zorblag, Crazy
NachoMamma8 (5): Papa Zito, Plum, Cogito Ergo Sum, SocioPath, chkflip
Oman (0):
Papa Zito (0):
SocioPath (1): NachoMamma8
Sudo_Nym (5): LlamaFluff, Cyberbob, Thor665, Fate, Punkin
Zorblag (0):
Thor665 (0):
Plum (0):
Fate (0):
chkflip (0):
Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Llamafluff (0):
Nikanor (0):
Crazy (2): Nikanor, AGar
Nobody Special (0):

Not voting (2): Oman, Sudo_Nym

Nachomamma8 replaces DemonHybrid. Welcome him with open arms and unsheathed knives!

Deadline is April 21st, 2011 at 7pm PST.

[Crazy]

@Mod - note that I just changed my vote

And lol at Sudo being the only active player that hasn't voted yet. Now

that's

devotion!

Should be fixed now.

[Punkin]

Was that a vote count? I think it was.

UNVOTE: Sudo
VOTE: Crazy

[Crazy]

Ookie dokie. I'll assume you have good reasons that you'll explain later.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

*hops*

Unvote, vote: Sudo