Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[Oso]

..
@Oso: I can ask you the same. How did you get null read from TS, what changed your mind on him when you were willing to put him at L-1?

Um, I don't have a null read on him. He's is still firmly in my suspect list along with ender. Except for their claims.

Willing to give them both a night to see what they do with them. I would refer to this post, Those are still valid reasons for suspecting Twistedspoon in spite of the claim.

Ender I touched on again here.

..
Ender, because of the claim itself. I can see it as a great way to both avoid inadvertently having to sell more innocents than scum can kill and to help avoid a counter sometime after today. I know you(Rhinox) disagree with that but since we both seem to agree that lynching Ender is not the thing to do today, I'm not sure that matters.
..

Between those 2 posts, I mention 4 players:TS, Ender, M=W and Javert that I had some sort of read on. It was the rest of the player's that I put into the 'neutral/null' category because those are the only 4 players I have really looked at in depth. Something I plan on remedying later tonight, have plans for the rest of the day after I get my morning chores and such done. (Actually, the entire weekend has been busier than planned.)

[Oso]

Apologies, That first post link is wrong. I linked to Post-279

It should be to this post: Post-282

..
I don't have anything original in my reasoning for your vote. Players have pretty much picked over your play so far and caught everything. Some things that do stand out:

1)Your posting lacks coherence. You are all over the place. No follow ups, no prods, no real pokes at players.
2)Votes. Same as above. The only vote you placed where there was a tangible and defensible reason was the vote of Javert.
3)Your vote of NE. Bogus reason. NE maybe wasn't posting as much as others (he[NE] even indicates as much) but his posts generally have content in them. They aren't fluff posts and he isn't posting just to keep his name active in the thread.
4)We are 12 pages and 10 days into the game and you have done absolutely nothing other than just stay active. You haven't made an attack or case of your own. Hell, you haven't even tried to borrow a decent case and reword it. Pretty much active lurking and with your NE vote, I'll have to throw in with EA and add vote parking as well.
..

[Oso]

Triple Post. I want to get this out as a thinking point before I get busy today.

Yesterday I thought about this game quite a bit, and I have an idea I want to throw out.

Javert's shot followed by a no-lynch.

1)Get's us a flip and confirms that Javert has at least the ability to daykill.
2)Avoids outing any other roles. I found (I think) what looks to be a breadcrumb to yet another role (and no, I'm not going to point it out), we keep this up and we are going to have to have a mass-claim here on D1 simply because we seem to be hitting all PRs.
3)It allows our three claimed roles to go ahead and use those roles.
4)Downside, we lose the lynch and information we might get by purposely taking someone to a lynch but I believe that will be offset, in this game at least, by allowing what we have showing to go ahead. Normally, I wouldn't even consider a no-lynch D1. This game is turning out to be fairly unique in my experience.

[farside22]

Oso: The last time you mentioned TS you stated you had a null read here

Now there was a case you switch over I was wondering why it wasn't brought up and how it went from null to scum

[Oso]

Ok, I get what you are asking now.

A lot had happened in the game since I gave that read. When asked about it, that was the read I had on him. Basically null since he seemed to be acting pretty much the way I had seen him act before and he was town in that game.

The reasons I gave for him being scum later in the game, didn't happen in the game I played with him before. He was willing to make votes and cases (or at least try to, even if it was just glomming to something someone else said he could legitimately agree with). He wasn't exactly what I would call decisive in his play in that game but compared to his play in this game, he was.

Quick ISO him in the game that is in the post you linked above, you will see what I mean.

[Maxous]

Javert's shot followed by a no-lynch.

Well we could do an unoffical lynch, and have him shoot that person.
I think Ender and/or TS may have already been unoffically 'lynched' though.

But I'm going to have to disagree with worrying too much about the power roles. Just play as normal and lynch.
They are indeed useful, but over-reliance on PR's can cost you a game.(Like say, assuming the 2 claimed cops are legit it would be plausible to have a innocent appearing mafia etc.)

But thinking about it.. I guess we should give the cops a night to receive(or fake :p) a result, espically since they are both one-shot. Since that is the case I will

Unvote:Ender241

The comment from Me=Weird and Farside's vote on Klazam have been bugging me since my previous vote on Ender anyway.
Voting because he had a null-read on TS? The way Pro pointed out the softclaim and TS asked about the claim afterwards was different.

[farside22]

maxous I don't get a null read on someone who I did an ISO of and saw the rolefishing that Rhinox mentioned and Klaz was saying he found both MW and Pro scummy for role fishing. I don't see how he missed TS.

[Juls]

Can somebody give me a good reason why Twisted is scum? I think he's town to be honest.

Can you please clarify something for me, ender, are you seriously claiming that your "crumb" was an accident? I implied in a previous post that I think this is ridiculous, but you have not responded, so I guess I need to ask you point blank.

Honestly I can't see 2 one shot cops. I've never heard of it. Juls broken down the possibilities, but I wonder do you (Juls) have a view on any one of those possibilities between the two players?

I would guess the least likely is TS-Mafia/ender-town. And most probable is either TS-Town/Ender-Town or TS-Town/Ender-Mafia. The latter only because I can't get past ender saying his "crumb" was an accident.

EA: Why are you ignoring Klaz who is pretty much doing next to nothing when it comes his reasoning? I see you mentioned this with Pro.
I see Pro at least going thru what everyone is saying and replying the the case against him.
Klaz on the other hand I feel. His reason's for voting for Pro was for role fishing but he doesn't say anything about TS who was doing the same thing. I have to wonder when people leave out those who when you look at their post and doesn't comment on them.

I have seen EA blatantly ask for a Klazham vig and he was voting him at one point. So I don't think he is ignoring him.

@Me=Weird: Oso, seems to think your "answer" regarding the timeline is sufficient but I don't. Can you please explain your motivations for asking Javert if his role was one-shot prior to there being any indication of one-shot cops?
Secondly, I think your case on Prosaurus boils down to: You're a newb!
Thirdly, Can you please explain the point that Maxous brought up about the "I'd also had a gut town feel from his[ender] posts" when you had voted for him early on.

Unvote, Vote: Me=Weird

I am beginning to think more and more that ender/Me=Weird are scum. I am removing my vote from Max because he made a good catch about Me=Weird's inconsistency noted above, all the other points I note above about Me=Weird, and I can't shake this feeling that Me=Weird is scum.

[Necessary Evil]

@EA: I'm surprised that you were grilling Klazam over lurking after the last game the three of us were in (it's completed, so no worries). At least he posted that he was V/LA this time. Why are you attacking him over it now?

What are you talking about? Klazam didn't lurk in Mini 1133 at all. He had 59 posts which is pretty damn good considering he was only alive for roughly nine RL days. For comparison this game has been active for roughly eight RL days and he's made ten posts. Half of which are worthless saporovirusy fluff.

Well, I disagree with you about the other game and your standard for lurking is odd. But that's neither here nor there. I looked at his ISO and you do have a point about him. I was going to say that ten posts in eight days can hardly be described as lurking, but as you pointed out, a lot of those posts don't contribute much. I get the feeling that something is up with him, but I can't really put my finger on it yet. It was definitely odd to me that he was soft with TS before his claim.

@Rhinox: So you think ender is town based on his meta. How can we tell if he is scum?

No, I've mentioned nothing of meta. I don't believe I've ever played with ender before. The comments I made regarding him are based on play in this game only.

I see. If you have no prior history with him, how can you assume that he is an easy target for scum rather than scum himself? Are you finding any of his play scummy?

Javert's shot followed by a no-lynch.

1)Get's us a flip and confirms that Javert has at least the ability to daykill.
2)Avoids outing any other roles. I found (I think) what looks to be a breadcrumb to yet another role (and no, I'm not going to point it out), we keep this up and we are going to have to have a mass-claim here on D1 simply because we seem to be hitting all PRs.
3)It allows our three claimed roles to go ahead and use those roles.
4)Downside, we lose the lynch and information we might get by purposely taking someone to a lynch but I believe that will be offset, in this game at least, by allowing what we have showing to go ahead. Normally, I wouldn't even consider a no-lynch D1. This game is turning out to be fairly unique in my experience.

Oh, that's no fun. Besides, we lose the advantage behind having a vig if we don't lynch as well as kill. Also it allows the scum to hide very easily when no-lynch is the plan. How will Javert decide who to kill with no serious discussion?

I think one of Prosaurus and Me=Weird is scum. I don't think both of them are because of the way Me=Weird posted a big case against Prosaurus and seems to be pushing for his lynch. I'll look at them both and decided who to vote for later.

[Me=Weird]

@Maxous maybe you didn't see this: "I thought he acted scummier than the town feel, so I attacked him anyway."? With the claim however, it changed that.
Necessary evil is still a scum read, but more minor, and nobody else seems to think so.
@PS: I'm not going to go through and respond to every response. As for your questions, go look at the klazam post you were talking about in ISO, and look at the post directly before it. For the other one, maybe if you'd read her response to that, you'd know.

@Me=Weird: Oso, seems to think your "answer" regarding the timeline is sufficient but I don't. Can you please explain your motivations for asking Javert if his role was one-shot prior to there being any indication of one-shot cops?
Secondly, I think your case on Prosaurus boils down to: You're a newb!
Thirdly, Can you please explain the point that Maxous brought up about the "I'd also had a gut town feel from his[ender] posts" when you had voted for him early on.

1. Whether or not the cop was one-shot didn't matter to me. I think I've said this before.
2. No, newb scum. He's acting like newb scum, which I can say I've seen before.
3. See above.

[Juls]

Me=Weird
a. Your answer doesn't make sense about your feelings of ender. If you thought he was more town than the rest thought then why did you attack him? Why would you attack someone that you thought was town?
b. I am concerned with the 1-shot question to Javert, not ender, and why you felt the need to ask that question. The question is anti-town at best. and strange given no one-shots had claimed at that point.
c. The only thing you have said that may be interpreted as newb-scum about Pro is his pointing out of ender's "accident crumb" and even that could be a newb-town mistake. The rest is newb-null imo.

[Javert]

1.)

@Javert 309: 1. In addition, ender had done what I saw to be scummy, but I'd also had a gut town feel from his posts. I thought he acted scummier than the town feel, so I attacked him anyway. Plus, he seemed pretty eager to claim, the way a PR would.

… What? ender241 went out of his way to avoid claiming. That is rather the opposite of “seemed pretty eager to claim.” At best, ender241 was “eager to try to get out of claiming by vaguely suggesting he had a power role and hoping he would not have to clarify.”

2.)

Yesterday I thought about this game quite a bit, and I have an idea I want to throw out.

Javert's shot followed by a no-lynch.

Strongly opposed to this. The purpose of mafia is not to keep power roles alive, but ultimately to lynch scum.

Additionally, because this game starts with an odd numbers of players, and assuming there will be one nightkill each night (and assuming I die overnight – I am not about to suggest whether I will also be able to DayVig tomorrow), then if we do not lynch today my role is effectively useless (except to prove itself). However, if I use it today and sometime later in the game there is a missed kill, we will have gained a lynch.

[Prosaurus]

@PS: I'm not going to go through and respond to every response. As for your questions, go look at the klazam post you were talking about in ISO, and look at the post directly before it. For the other one, maybe if you'd read her response to that, you'd know.

So you're giving up your case?

[Juls]

@Javert - I am opposed to making any decisions about after you vig kill before you actually vig kill but I also think we will need time to make those decisions. So, I would like you to vig kill sooner rather than later. FYI, its 1 week and 3 days from deadline.

[Me=Weird]

Juls:
a. I

didn't

think he was town. I've said already that I felt his scummy actions overweighed the gut town feel. All that happened was the claim changed that.
b. I see that I probably shouldn't have asked that now, but at the time it felt like a good question because of the thought process I explained earlier. Plus, the last mini normal I was in had a 1-shot vig.

Javert:
At first he was reluctant, but later he was saying "do you want me to claim? I will if you want me to". Wouldn't PR's be reluctant at first to claim, but if it seems inevitable, more eager to claim as to avoid being accidentally lynched? In 212, when asked why he was so eager, he answered, instead of saying he wasn't.

PS, I am not giving up the case. I just don't see any point in it. I think you're scum, hopefully other people will too.

[Twistedspoon]

if Javert does kill soon then should Ender and I say who we're going to investigate before the day ends?

I'm partial to investigating Klazam or EA tonight

[Rhinox]

I think its about time we find out for sure if Javert is what he says he is. Ender and TS should be off limits. Anyone else fair game. Daykill go!

Still waiting...

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See my comment to TS above. There's a difference. HUGE difference.

Do you mean this comment?
I don't get it :/

no... this one.

---------------------

Triple Post. I want to get this out as a thinking point before I get busy today.

Yesterday I thought about this game quite a bit, and I have an idea I want to throw out.

Javert's shot followed by a no-lynch.

1)Get's us a flip and confirms that Javert has at least the ability to daykill.
2)Avoids outing any other roles. I found (I think) what looks to be a breadcrumb to yet another role (and no, I'm not going to point it out), we keep this up and we are going to have to have a mass-claim here on D1 simply because we seem to be hitting all PRs.
3)It allows our three claimed roles to go ahead and use those roles.
4)Downside, we lose the lynch and information we might get by purposely taking someone to a lynch but I believe that will be offset, in this game at least, by allowing what we have showing to go ahead. Normally, I wouldn't even consider a no-lynch D1. This game is turning out to be fairly unique in my experience.

no. If all the claimed roles are telling the truth, then scum probably have a RB and a GF. Do the math.

----------------------

Honestly I can't see 2 one shot cops. I've never heard of it. Juls broken down the possibilities, but I wonder do you (Juls) have a view on any one of those possibilities between the two players?

I would guess the least likely is TS-Mafia/ender-town. And most probable is either TS-Town/Ender-Town or TS-Town/Ender-Mafia. The latter only because I can't get past ender saying his "crumb" was an accident.

I'm actually leaning the other way around or both town.

---------------------

@Rhinox: So you think ender is town based on his meta. How can we tell if he is scum?

No, I've mentioned nothing of meta. I don't believe I've ever played with ender before. The comments I made regarding him are based on play in this game only.

I see. If you have no prior history with him, how can you assume that he is an easy target for scum rather than scum himself? Are you finding any of his play scummy?

What I was really getting at was a nicer way of calling ender VI-town. It doesn't take meta to be able to read whats going on within this game. No, I don't find ender's play scummy.

--------------------

@Javert - I am opposed to making any decisions about after you vig kill before you actually vig kill but I also think we will need time to make those decisions. So, I would like you to vig kill sooner rather than later. FYI, its 1 week and 3 days from deadline.

+1

[Klazam]

TS, you shouldn't say who you're investigating. If you do, scum will know who you're investigating, and plan nightkills based on that.

[Twistedspoon]

eh, that's why i was asking

[Klazam]

And i was answering.

[Twistedspoon]

cool

[neil1113]

You guys are making me proud! Keep up the activity!

Vote Count #1.6:
Day One

Prosaurus

(2): Klazam, Me=Weird

Twistedspoon

(1): Erratus Apathos

Necessary Evil

(1): Twistedspoon

Me=Weird

(1): Juls

Erratus Apathos

(1): Prosaurus

Klazam

(1): Farside22

ender241

(0):

Oso

(0):

Javert

(0):

Rhinox

(0):

Maxous

(0):

Juls

(0):

farside22

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

(6): Ender241, Oso, Javert, Rhinox, Necessary Evil, Maxous

V/LA

(0):

Prodding:

(0):

With

13

alive it takes

7

to lynch.
Deadline for Day One is 12:00am EST on 4/20/2011

[Juls]

Juls:
a. I

didn't

think he was town. I've said already that I felt his scummy actions overweighed the gut town feel. All that happened was the claim changed that.

Basically what I am getting from this is "my gut said he was town but everyone else thought he was scummy so I bandwagoned". I like my vote.

[Me=Weird]

Are you a moron, or have you never heard of having a gut town read on somebody who's done scummy things?

[Juls]

Are you a moron, or have you never heard of having a gut town read on somebody who's done scummy things?

Unnecessary, and doesn't help your case.