Open 300 - Mafia on Midol (Town Wins!)

[Thor665]

Deleted. Carry On.

[Thor665]

I apologize for the above - I went to respond to a post and somehow the machine sucked me out of the text box so when I hit enter it submitted. Apologies.

You're essentially giving him a pass for play that benefits a scum wincon because VIs do it here. That's weaksauce, bro.

I don't see his play as intrinsically scummy advantage though, and don't believe you've proved otherwise. We both agree the trap play was suboptimal. We simply disagree on whether it was scum or town motivated. I'll give you a slight nod for the 'hypocrisy' tell but I'm not sure I buy it as legitimate hypocrisy from a scum motivation as opposed to simply a slight gray area for responding to reads. I know I've been town and have entered into that gray area before and though I believe it's pro town to avoid it I don't see it as slam dunk scum evidence.

Sudo: I'm not thrilled at all by his play so far, and I really hate his parking of a useless vote at this point. But repeatedly insisting that "Hey, there's nothing worth commenting on here" doesn't seem like it would benefit scum at all, to me. It's basically passing up any bait at a mislynch. If we see a scum-flip from one of the people more involved in those earlier scenarios, then yeah - there's potentially something up there - but since I have a townread on Zito, everyone else does on DH/Nacho, and the Crazy and Troll "incidents" were really not worth commenting on (Troll makes that same post every game... I don't know why people get up in arms about it), I don't see an issue with that, which seems to be the main issue with people.

This is all good posting here.
I'll agree I can see a lack of desire to comment on stuff as not a solid scum tell (though I do think it's better than what else we've seen thus far). I will add that the lack of any active attempts to generate discussion reads that she finds worthwhile is more worrisome. Sometimes I am not enthused by the current conversation - the only times I've lurked through them though instead of starting up something new was predominantly when I was scum.

[Punkin]

the game is zzzz

Xine

literally

fell asleep twice while reading it last night.

I owe this game some love.

[LlamaFluff]

@Sudo - Current read on DH/Nacho slot. Go.
@Socio - You too.

[Oman]

Who is Punkin btw?

[Crazy]

Who is Punkin btw?

Punkin is a Xine and Ythill hydra.

[Crazy]

Crazy's unvote of DH is super interesting. It makes me think of Crazyscum DH-town (jumping off a wagon like that is an easy way to build major towncred)

What should I have done if I was town and didn't believe in the DH wagon?

The way you did it - the 'on the wagon, off the wagon' deal was exceedingly awkward, and using the "too scummy to be scum" argument doesn't bite with me. Nothing you've said has gelled with me at all about DH being potentially town, it seems like weakly constructed excuses to keep him alive.

So is your case on me being scum dependent on DH also being scum? I mean, I hear you say "Crazy is scum because he defended DH" and when I asked why you just implied that it's because we're scum-partners.

You've since just awkwardly bounced about trying to find a wagon with the most traction, attacking someone then retracting it quickly thereafter. Tell me what you're gaining from this, because I don't see anything. At all.

It's how I'm trying to scum-hunt; my suspicions aren't solid yet and I'm applying pressure to different people to try to figure out their alignment. And I left the DH and Sudo wagons WHEN they started to gain momentum, so I'm not sure what you're saying.

[Crazy]

Someone has less posts than I do?
/catchinguplatertonightafterdinner

Why did you choose to talk about puppy training in General Discussion instead of keeping your promise to post after dinner in this game?

[singersigner]

There are now three more people who are teeechnically over prod due-time. I didn't think this would be a difficult activity level to keep up with for you guys. Please don't make me be a mean mod. Mod <3s you.

[LlamaFluff]

48 hours on the weekend can be difficult...

Also im out of town late thursday to late saturday at the earliest. Sunday is a much better bet.

[Thor665]

@Oman - You've previously indicated them both Crazy and Sudo aare good lynches. Any reason you're not on the bigger of the two wagons?

[Fate]

Nikanor hates being scum.

That's two down.

Crazy is town btw.

AGar still pushin the DH slot is LULZ

[Punkin]

Okay... spent some time cuddling with the game and discussing between heads. We've opted to figure activity levels into our analysis and are caught up through current.

Top three scum, in order are: Nacho, Sudo, and NS. Three players are tied for fourth: Zorb, Plum, and Chk.

Bob, AGar, PZ, SP, Fate and Llama are town somewhere between lean and obv. The rest are at null.

The activity level here is abysmal, and some that

are

posting seem to think this game is about talking. It's about voting. Early vote movement = scum lynches.

UNVOTE: Chk
VOTE: Crazy

Mod: not to be a nag but could we please get at least one VC per day?

[singersigner]

Mod: not to be a nag but could we please get at least one VC per day?

Nagnagnagnagnag. GOSH.

I

have

been posting one votecount/24-ish hour time period...
But seeing as I'm a

liiiiittle

bit late with this one because activity has been a

liiiiittle

bit slow...*hint*hint*

Votecount 1.4

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Punkin (1): Nobody Special
Cyberbob (0):
AGar (2): Zorblag, Crazy
Nachomamma8 (4): Papa Zito, Plum, SocioPath, chkflip
Oman (0):
Papa Zito (0):
SocioPath (0):
Sudo_Nym (5): LlamaFluff, Cyberbob, Thor665, Fate, Cogito Ergo Sum
Zorblag (0):
Thor665 (0):
Plum (0):
Fate (0):
chkflip (1): Nachomamma8
Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Llamafluff (0):
Nikanor (0):
Crazy (4): Nikanor, AGar, Oman, Punkin
Nobody Special (1): chkflip

Not voting (1): Sudo_Nym

Deadline is April 21st, 2011 at 7pm PST.

[Cyberbob]

I don't really get nachomamma's chkflip vote, i mean i think his posts are pretty dumb but scummy dumb? i dunno. i'm really really bad at sorting between dumb scum and dumb town though so yeah. i agree that the DH "case" was pretty scummy though if that's where you're coming from

agar... hm. bad gut vibes, i don't like his dismissal of the case against sudo. sorry but i literally simply just cannot accept that thing about there being nothing decent to comment on; nor do i buy his incredibly WIFOM argument that essentially boils down to saying "he's TOO obviously scummy to be scum why would scum ever be so scummy it just doesn't add up". bad bad bad dumb dumb dumb... scum? too early to say for sure but i'll say he's definitely on that side of the line right now

can someone remind me again why the Crazy votes at this point? there was that one thing I voted him for at the start but that can't be all that's going on there surely

[Crazy]

Punkin, if I'm not in your top 6 scum reads, then why did you just vote for me?

UNVOTE: AGar
VOTE: Nobody Special

He's with Nikanor in the "promised to provide content but never did" group. And he's posted 38 times on site since his last post here.

[SocioPath]

@Socio - You too.

The slot is still scum for now.
Hence why my vote was never removed after he rage quit.
Its a crazy concept I know, to actually not forget where my votes are like some

people

slots have been trying to apply to me this game.

[AGar]

I'll try and cut down on the quote walls in the future. Sorry for this one.

Also,

@Mod: I'll be V/LA from Friday 4/15 - Sunday 4/17.

---

You're essentially giving him a pass for play that benefits a scum wincon because VIs do it here. That's weaksauce, bro.

I don't see his play as intrinsically scummy advantage though, and don't believe you've proved otherwise. We both agree the trap play was suboptimal. We simply disagree on whether it was scum or town motivated. I'll give you a slight nod for the 'hypocrisy' tell but I'm not sure I buy it as legitimate hypocrisy from a scum motivation as opposed to simply a slight gray area for responding to reads. I know I've been town and have entered into that gray area before and though I believe it's pro town to avoid it I don't see it as slam dunk scum evidence.

Was DH's trap going to fully and 100% propel a mislynch? Probably not. But by design, it was more likely to catch a town player poking and prodding than an opportunistic scum player, especially among this crowd of players. The fact that he "believed" otherwise, to me, doesn't translate a town mindset.

Sudo: I'm not thrilled at all by his play so far, and I really hate his parking of a useless vote at this point. But repeatedly insisting that "Hey, there's nothing worth commenting on here" doesn't seem like it would benefit scum at all, to me. It's basically passing up any bait at a mislynch. If we see a scum-flip from one of the people more involved in those earlier scenarios, then yeah - there's potentially something up there - but since I have a townread on Zito, everyone else does on DH/Nacho, and the Crazy and Troll "incidents" were really not worth commenting on (Troll makes that same post every game... I don't know why people get up in arms about it), I don't see an issue with that, which seems to be the main issue with people.

This is all good posting here.
I'll agree I can see a lack of desire to comment on stuff as not a solid scum tell (though I do think it's better than what else we've seen thus far). I will add that the lack of any active attempts to generate discussion reads that she finds worthwhile is more worrisome. Sometimes I am not enthused by the current conversation - the only times I've lurked through them though instead of starting up something new was predominantly when I was scum.

I get that people are pretty much looking for something to go on here, and on the surface, just sliding by makes for a great icebreaker. But once you scratch away at the outer shell, Sudo isn't really actively pushing

anything

. I don't think that's an optimal town play, but by the same token, other than being unreadable, it's not an optimal play as scum, to me. If he keeps this up, then yes, I'll be all for piking his head, but as of right now, I see no need to jump on someone who only saw minimal interest in the DH wagon.

---

The way you did it - the 'on the wagon, off the wagon' deal was exceedingly awkward, and using the "too scummy to be scum" argument doesn't bite with me. Nothing you've said has gelled with me at all about DH being potentially town, it seems like weakly constructed excuses to keep him alive.

So is your case on me being scum dependent on DH also being scum? I mean, I hear you say "Crazy is scum because he defended DH" and when I asked why you just implied that it's because we're scum-partners.

Since when did scum only defend their partners? Scum can also defend town players, and oft do to gain town cred (like Oman mentioned). Your defense of DH was awkward and looked like you didn't really believe it (ergo DHscum) or didn't have a true way to defend him, but knew he was town.

You've since just awkwardly bounced about trying to find a wagon with the most traction, attacking someone then retracting it quickly thereafter. Tell me what you're gaining from this, because I don't see anything. At all.

It's how I'm trying to scum-hunt; my suspicions aren't solid yet and I'm applying pressure to different people to try to figure out their alignment. And I left the DH and Sudo wagons WHEN they started to gain momentum, so I'm not sure what you're saying.

Actually the DH wagon had pretty much sputtered out for a time when you unvoted. SP, Chk and I came in and added our votes afterwords, but those three votes weren't "a-comin" when you unvoted.
Sudo's wagon has literally picked up 1 vote since you unvoted. Again, not picking up momentum there, chief.

You're "applying pressure" is throwing a vote behind a wagon on a whim, hoping it sticks, and then if not, bouncing to another. There's no pressure behind your votes because they hold no meaning whatsoever. What did you gain from your vote on Sudo? Your vote on me? Do you expect to gain anything about NS's alignment for lurker-voting?

---

agar... hm. bad gut vibes, i don't like his dismissal of the case against sudo. sorry but i literally simply just cannot accept that thing about there being nothing decent to comment on; nor do i buy his incredibly WIFOM argument that essentially boils down to saying "he's TOO obviously scummy to be scum why would scum ever be so scummy it just doesn't add up". bad bad bad dumb dumb dumb... scum? too early to say for sure but i'll say he's definitely on that side of the line right now

I'm not saying he's too scummy to be scum, especially considering I even said I don't like his play so far. I'm saying his play that everyone is attacking doesn't benefit a scum wincon in any way. Mislynches are the fuel of a scum win. Yeah, scum can win if the town no-lynches every day and scum runs free every night, but that will likely never happen. So mislynches are better than scumlynches, but bussing a partner still builds some kind of credibility. The only benefit to pushing nothing in itself is being unreadable, which is definitely possible, but other than that, not pushing any lynches is detrimental to the scumgame. Especially when scum need 5 mislynches out of the gate to win.

Also, Crazy vote is for awkward defense of the DH-slot, and now simply wagon hopping without real purpose. Claims to be generating "pressure" but votes seem to be exceedingly casual and hold no meaning, like he's waiting for something to take off.

---

@Sudo

Where do you stand, honestly? Suspicions, thoughts, something? I'd love a vote, but doubt we'll see that, so just give us something to work with?

This game needs a massive round of prods or something similar, lots of players to hear from. PZ, Plum, Troll... Plenty of input to be had.

[Crazy]

@AGar, my vote on you did serve a purpose as in letting people know where I stand as well as adding more weight to my questions towards you. What did you expect me to do, go all "OMG LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH??" I never had a case for lynching you; I just was suspicious of you so I voted you and questioned you. Is that wrong? Or would you prefer me to hold onto my vote until I'm ready for a lynch like Sudo is doing?

And you're really flip-flopping with your reasons of suspecting me. I mean, make up your mind, did I unvote DH because I was trying to save him from a lynch or did I unvote him because the wagon didn't have enough "traction?"

Ugh, this is frustrating. I don't want a quote war, because it gives the lurker-scum more excuses to lurk.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Oman, though - if I

was

town and thought DH was town, what

should

I have done in that scenario?

[Nobody Special]

I will post real, actual content late tonight (if not earlier).

And Crazy, shame on you for stalking me. I am Modding two games and reading Mafia is not the same as posting fluff in nonMafia games. You should know this.

[Punkin]

- if I

was

town and thought DH was town, what

should

I have done in that scenario?

This is someone who assumes themselves to NOT be town
I stand by our vote
(though the original reason for the vote is in my "other head" right now)

BTW: Troll, Sudo, !!!!
we pre-inned together to play together, remember??? C'mon guys

[Crazy]

Punkin, you know I'm not

that

stupid.

NS, 30-some posts on other parts of the site is

a lot

, no matter how you slice it. And isn't the general priority order Modding > Playing Mafia > Playing Mish-Mash?

[chkflip]

UNVOTE: Nobody Special
VOTE: Crazy

You're scum.

[Crazy]

I believe that you believe that, chk. You're playing the opposite of your scum meta, so that's a good sign.

@NS - Can you explain your earlier Punkin vote when you post later?

@Socio - Why do you think scum-DH would claim Vanilla Townie right before he rage-quit? Who else are you suspicious of?

@Sudo - Don't make me regret calling you town. Do you have

any

suspects yet? And have you exhibited your same strategy here in any past games?

@AGar - What do you think of Oman?

[Fate]

This Crazy wagon is built on sand and full of horsecrap.

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