Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[Erratus Apathos]

EA: Why are you ignoring Klaz who is pretty much doing next to nothing when it comes his reasoning? I see you mentioned this with Pro.

I'm not ignoring Klaz, I've been calling him scummy and even pushing for him to be vigged. And I am willing to vote that way.

UNVOTE: Twistedspoon
VOTE: Klazam

See?

[farside22]

Okay those not voting need to get their votes and reasoning out there. There is only 9 days till deadline. I also agree that if Javert has a shot he should take it soon. There should be a lynch and I believe a vig kill can also give information. Look at those who voted and why. See who stayed off wagon's. If Javert shot's mafia look at interactions between players.

I can't believe people are bypassing Klaz.

@Me=Weird: What do you think Pro hasn't answered to that still makes him scummy?

I'm a bit fuzzy on everything do to this cold I got.

[Prosaurus]

PS, I am not giving up the case. I just don't see any point in it.

I think you're scum, hopefully other people will too.

If there's no point in a case, you shouldn't have one...

[Juls]

Mod: Please prod ender

Also, I was thinking we give Javert a town-imposed deadline of midnight Wednesday (tomorrow) April 13 to give town 1 week to decide a lynch. If he hasn't decided by Wednesday, then he is probably fake-claiming and he can be our lynch. Does that sound good?

[Twistedspoon]

Also, I was thinking we give Javert a town-imposed deadline of midnight Wednesday (tomorrow) April 13 to give town 1 week to decide a lynch. If he hasn't decided by Wednesday, then he is probably fake-claiming and he can be our lynch. Does that sound good?

I'm cool with the deadline

although i still can't see him fakeclaiming this early. i thought it'd be too soon for scum to draw attention to themselves like this.

However it's still possible he could be a mafioso with a day kill

[Rhinox]

Mod: Please prod ender

Also, I was thinking we give Javert a town-imposed deadline of midnight Wednesday (tomorrow) April 13 to give town 1 week to decide a lynch. If he hasn't decided by Wednesday, then he is probably fake-claiming and he can be our lynch. Does that sound good?

I like the town imposed deadline. I don't think not being a vig automatically makes him scum, but the claim did pretty much ensure no one looked seriously in his direction all day. That is beneficial to javert-scum. The more he continues to lurk and stall when he claims to have claimed to enforce activity, the worse he looks IMO. I think the wednesday deadline is too generous TBH, I'd like to see a daykill or admission of gambit in his next post.

[farside22]

Mod: Please prod ender

Also, I was thinking we give Javert a town-imposed deadline of midnight Wednesday (tomorrow) April 13 to give town 1 week to decide a lynch. If he hasn't decided by Wednesday, then he is probably fake-claiming and he can be our lynch. Does that sound good?

I think if he shots any later then 7 days into deadline it would be scummy in my view. The lag in this game in very noticeable, plus look at the votes. It's really bad that there is no defining BW taking place at this time.

[Oso]

..
The lag in this game in very noticeable, plus look at the votes. It's really bad that there is no defining BW taking place at this time.

Apologies for my part in that. Didn't get a chance to post at all yesterday and the re-read I was going to do didn't take place in full. Activity will come up today, I promise.

I do see my my idea about a no-lynch got the about the type of reception I thought it would. Never held a lot of hope of it coming to be. For the record, it wasn't to protect the roles we already have showing, at least not directly.

In case he shoots before I make any more substantial posts, If Javert is taking thoughts from others on his target, I have no thoughts on who to kill but do hope that he leaves the two 1-shots alone for today and I'd take Prosaurus out of that as well. It's is mainly gut but this stood out to me while reading back some:

Should probably ask me that as well. EA and Ender defend each other and

gang up on me

. Then Rhinox defends them. I'd say that's scummy.

The bold, that screams to me newb town.

So no opinion on who you should shoot Javert, just a list of folks I hope you don't shoot today.

Will post again later with a vote or a reason(game reason, not real life reason) why I couldn't make one.

[Erratus Apathos]

I concur, vig already Javert.

FWIW I support vigging Klazam or Twistedspoon and am against vigging Ender, Prosaurus, MeWeird, NEvil, or farside (or me obv obv)

[Maxous]

@Maxous maybe you didn't see this: "I thought he acted scummier than the town feel, so I attacked him anyway."? With the claim however, it changed that.

Reading the context of your 'attack', your vote was the fourth vote on Ender. The bandwagon was picking up steam and if Ender claimed Vanilla Town he would probably be dead already.
I would more understand if you asked Ender to clarify some of his posts/opinions to make sure.

At the very least if I had a gut town feel but was'nt sure and did feel he had scummy actions, I might stay clear of defending the player for however long as see who attacks the player. Stay off his lynch, see who votes and gain information on who was willing to condemn the player to a lynch and go from there. (useful if your gut town feel was correct)
But the main issue I have is that you

contributed

to his bandwagon when there was a very real possibility that he was going to be lynched.

Not sure what to make of this.. I'm thinking about it.

if Javert does kill soon then should Ender and I say who we're going to investigate before the day ends?

No.
To add to Klazam's point the mafia could have a framer or a lawyer to mess with your results.

I can't believe people are bypassing Klaz.

Hmm he did have a weird vote on Prosaurus.

@Klazam: Was the entire reason for that vote rolefishing?

@Juls: Do you not beleive Javert's claim?

@Farside: Do you think it is possible Javert has a day vig power and be scum?

[Klazam]

Javert- hold off on vigging if your target is me. Let me make a few posts first. All right?


Everyone- I have been reading the game, but I'm having a hard time actually posting. If you all would prefer it, i can replace out.

My vote on PS is because I find PS scummy, along with his rolefishing, yes.

Right now, I'm really finding it difficult to read EA.

[Klazam]

Twistedspoon- I believe his claim, play pretty much matches up nicely with the claim.
Juls- Feels town
Oso- Feels town
Rhinox- Feels town
Necessary Evil- Null: hard to read, more quality posts than me, but less posts in total.
EA- Slightly scummy because I find his all-out attack of me a bit odd, can’t put my finger on it. (Yeah, right now, I would be calling for the vigging of myself, but at the beginning, I was EA’s first choice for vigging, even after I was absent for a couple days)
Prosaurus- Scum because of the way he posted. Yeah, that rolefishing is included.
Me=Weird- At first I thought he was scum, but now I’m not so sure so I’ll say null.
Maxous- Feels town
Farside- Feels town
Javert- I highly doubt that scum would have dayvigging powers. Once he vigs someone, he’s confirmed town IMO.
Ender- I believe the claim for now, but I recoginize in his shoes, a 1 shot cop would be a pretty good fakeclaim. More likely than TS to be mafia.


Ugh. See why i find it hard to play this game. I have townreads on way too many people. IF they all are correct, that would mean NE, EA, and PS is mafia...

[Oso]

Probably(maybe?) going to make several short/medium posts during the day as I re-read and have the slack time, (will stop short of spamming though).

FoS: farside22. Experience cuts against you here. I find it hard to believe you are really propounding the whole “it is antitown to point out an obvious breadcrumb and force a clarification.”

I think you know what you are getting here but I wanted to be sure. You have played with farside before I take it? I know she has been around MS for going on 4 years now but I have never personally played with her.

But it did ping this on another player.

..
No offense to ender but I seriously doubt he's capable of thinking that far ahead as

town or scum.

I agree that one player may know another player well enough to make a good estimation of their abilities. What gets me there is also what I think pinged Javert about farside.

@Rhinox, you have been around long enough to know better than that. You thinking works only if he is town (or 3rd party) and working by himself. He would be either true-claiming, and have no need to think that far ahead, or 3rd party in which he just picked a moderately rare claim (in my experience at least) that just happened to match another we have in the game. (Yes, I believe that one of Ender and TS is absolutely telling the truth. Plus a leaning, or just a hope maybe, that both are true).

The reason fails, at least in part, if ender is in fact scum because he would have had at least one other brain to call on pre-game if neil allowed the scum QT to be open before the day started. No way in hell to know exactly what was discussed pre-game until the game is over but it is not unreasonable to think there might have been a discussion on what types of fake-claims might stand a chance of squeaking by for at least a day.

So the bold part, actually the whole quote above, has no meaning. As town, he(ender) has no need to think that far ahead. As scum, he(ender) isn't relying solely on himself to think of things, although part of that relies on exactly what was discussed pre-game. Only if ender is 3rd party is any part (the part that has him not town and having to think solely on his own) of that reason valid.

You, Rhinox, are including in your thinking, a reason to help clear ender in your mind that really holds no validity....why?

[Twistedspoon]

If you all would prefer it, i can replace out.

nooo

<3 Klazam

[Rhinox]

@Oso: Like I've said before, ender is coming off as a VI this game. I don't mean it in the derogatory sense that it has come to mean around here recently, but in the literal town player who some people view as scummy but is town nonetheless. The reasons are there. EA has given a couple, and there are a couple more, but arguing why ender is town isn't going to help us lynch scum today.

As for my reason, it wasn't presented in a "this is why ender is town", but rather "this is why your conspiracy theory didn't make any sense". You said:

I would say I don't know what to think of that except I do. I think it smells. If scum, he only has to sell one innocent that can easily be killed later. He doesn't get caught in the confirming more townies than scum can kill loop

and I only gave you the short reason. The long reason is, if he is scum, even if he claims full sane cop, he's not confirming anybody. Scum already know who's not scum, and they can call their scum partners innocent.

[Maxous]

My vote on PS is because I find PS scummy, along with his rolefishing, yes.

What is scummy?
Looking through your posts all I found was

ooh, Another fisherman (PS). two scum so far here.

In your catch up post.

[Me=Weird]

PS, I am not giving up the case. I just don't see any point in it.

I think you're scum, hopefully other people will too.

If there's no point in a case, you shouldn't have one...

There's no point in continuing to respond. I've made my point. I doubt much is going to change.

I feel like I should be voting klazam, but Tuesdays are really busy for me. Will look into him tomorrow.

[Rhinox]

I think thier are scummy because I think they are mafia actions, no other reason.

*sigh* I was asking you WHY you think they are mafia actions...

@Maxous: When I asked you this way back when, I really was hoping for an answer.

[Necessary Evil]

V/LA until Saturday.

Duly Noted... Or something like that.

[Oso]

..
but arguing why ender is town isn't going to help us lynch scum today.
..

I agree to certain extent, what I am trying to do is weed out folks who think Ender (and I guess by association TS and Javert) are town or at least not lynch-worthy today for good reasons and those who are just making up reasons because they have knowledge of alignment.

I'm in a bit of weird spot at the moment gamewise. Our two best, high probability lynches based solely on play, are claimed. Ender and TS.

A close second(third?) to those two would be Me=Wierd except I disagree with some of what has been directed at him. His asking about Javert's shot ability is absolutely not what he has been accused of:Role Fishing. Javert had already claimed so it is "nails on chalkboard" type of irritating when I see that in a post by someone (generic someone here) who I have a town read on. But since I can see some of the reasons why scum would be interested in that info, I haven't given him a full pass.

The current subject of interest (Klazam) is starting to look like a default lynch. But that is because of a lack of participation (from where I sit) followed by promises to get involved and halfhearted attempts (it looks like) to get involved rather than anything scummy he has done. He has made one of the better posts of the game from what I can see.

..
From my POV, it would benefit scum quite a bit if they knew whether Javert was a one shot dayvig or not. I didnt see a valid town reason to ask that question. Now, M=W's explanation involving a doctor seems quite contrived. If there was a doctor, He would know as much as the scum did.

If Javert wasnt a one shot dayvig, scum would want to kill him. There is no way for the scum to know right now. Therefore they would kill him, just to be safe. A rational doctor would see this and protect him (sadly, by me mentioning it, it wont happen, i'm sure.). In this, i do not see a town benefit to knowing that information. If Javert outs that he is a one shot vig, boom, the possible PR pool just was reduced by one.

And that post is the primary reason why Me=Weird is still high on my suspect list. And I agree with many of the reads he gave in post before last. (Post 391)

I hate going back on reads and day-passes but at this point, I'm out of viable/lynchworthy suspects at the moment based solely on play, so I may have to which means I'm probably going to go back to a Me=Wierd vote. Haven't decided yet. Still a few timelines and cross references I want to make first.

[Maxous]

I think thier are scummy because I think they are mafia actions, no other reason.

*sigh* I was asking you WHY you think they are mafia actions...

@Maxous: When I asked you this way back when, I really was hoping for an answer.

Answer:

@Rhinox: I explained a lot of it in this post.
Along with EA trying to get Javert to shoot Klazam - Mafia tend to use lurking to put suspicion on players.

It's not evident from his earlier posting that he ever thought that Javert was town, and if he was really thinking that Javert was town then it doesn't make sense to vote for him.

Yeah, about this. The strong implication I got from Ender's post was that Javert is either scum or town being rude and Ender would be willing to vote for him for either reason.
It goes with that 'well if he is actually town it's alright to vote for him anyway' reasoning that mafia like to use to justify votes.

Post 270

I outlined earlier why I though Ender was mafia and since then the only post I can remember from him was his 'I think Prosaurus is scummy but I don't have a reason despite voting for him with a reason
.............
A one-way defence by town for another palyer, does happen.

2 way defending each-other, is a lot more suspicious

. This is combined with EA making excuses for Ender like 'he was frustrated by Javert' and the following quote

Yeah, he thought Javert was bluffing, AFTER HE TOLD JAVERT TO VIG HIM AND JAVERT REFUSED. That is a completely different circumstance that happened well after the point I'm talking about here.

This is just not true (along with the post below it.)
Why is EA explaining all this about Ender in the first place? There was no 'well Ender would have to answer that' from him.

Post 297

[ender241]

Alright, sorry everyone for being away.

Top 3 scum from everyone.

[Klazam]

Alright, sorry everyone for being away.

Top 3 scum from everyone.

PS, EA, NE

[Oso]

Alright, sorry everyone for being away.

Top 3 scum from everyone.

Sure, You first. I'll help with your list by putting the first one in there.

1)ender241
2)..
3)..

You can put the other two in there at your convenience.

For me;

Me=Weird
ender241
Twistedspoon

in roughly that order. <actual vote still pending though as stated in my last>

[Juls]

@Juls: Do you not beleive Javert's claim?

At the moment, I

don't disbelieve

it. I just think he needs to do it like NOW. And if he isn't willing to do so, then I am forced to assume it was a lie.

@Ender, I have asked you TWICE now, please respond: are you claiming that your "crumb" was an accident? In response to your question Scum List: 1) Me=Weird 2) Ender, 3) Maxous (to a lesser extent). See how you answer questions...

If Javert is taking opinions into consideration, I vote for Me=Weird.