A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[popsofctown]

Zdenek, can you tell us if you're Mafia or the SK, please? And who your buddy is, on the "off chance" that you have one?

Because you really, really suck at scum. No, seriously. You are godawful at this. I hate myself for having switched to Feysal on D2 right now.

Actually, thank you so much for that. "Off chance." It was really sweet of you.

VOTE: ZdenekI've been doing a lot of rereading and discussing behind the scenes over the past few days, but I haven't got a chance to put a big post together.

However, I did a scenario. I'd

It really doesn't matter if there are one or two Mafia remaining...

as long as we take out the other scum tomorrow

.

And not only is the fifth scum is certainly Zdenek, but the sixth one (if there is one) is LynchMePls. (Disclaimer: LMP is last on my list of ISOs.) In fact, I'd almost be willing to call Zdenek and LMP as the Starks, and Locke as the SK based on tha.

Locke? LMP? Both of you seem to be arguing that danakillsu is Stark--the former as Magua's buddy (do you think Magua was bussing diddin and Setael, out of curiosity?), the latter as Zdenek's. But do you think that dana's interactions with Setael

Also, LMP, why are you voting Zdenek if
(After Magua's recent posts, I'm pretty convinced that he's not Stark. That said, I

An open letter to the Serial Killer:

Dear psychopathic bastard,

We greatly appreciate your help in taking out. Then you decided to be. Bastard. So much for letting you win in endgame.

Now let's take a look at things.

We lynch Zdenek and he flips town.

1)

Conclusion: if Zdenek flips town, you should be aiming for scum

Spoiler: Spoilers for this post

Twilight Sparkle is probably not Stark, and also probably right about Zdenek. God, I feel so dirty.

Which head is this? I want to know. I promise not to laugh

Spoiler: Spoiler

outside of spoiler tags

[Locke Lamora]

I can actually relate to that Locke, the problem is there's confirmed towns running around who are going to take a very methodical direction to pegging the final scum. Logically, we had it narrowed down to very few choices and I wasn't one of them, nor even close. I'm not anywhere near confirmed, but I'm a little farther up on the scale ahead of people like Setael, suspected SKs, and people with nothing to show for actions so far, in what looks like a power heavy game.

Are you explaining why we shouldn't lynch you here? Why?

I'll wait for TS to actually finish their question before I answer it

Before we do anything, I think we should do a complete list of every role, both flipped and claimed, and make sure we consider it carefully. I remember several people in the dead thread pointing out that Macavitar's fakeclaim made no sense alongside the Kingsguard mechanic in ACoK, but no-one in-thread bothered to look back and fully consider the implications.

[Benmage]

Uh right. I meant to do things last night, but passed out. Ill be here after work later tonight for sure.

[Benmage]

Uhmmm why he's L-1...unvote someone.

[Benmage]

Nvm, I handled it. Going to work. I'll bbl, enjoy.

[Eddard Stark]

Hand of The King

The hand sat in his chambers. Honestly he had so much work to do. Tommen was but a boy and the realm depended on him.

A Lannister guard walked in. 'Sir it appears Zdenek is about to be lynched, have you anything to say?'

Benmage looked up. 'Oh yes, that's not happening. 'Here' he said handing them a piece of parchment. 'He can now not be lynched today'

ZDENEK is now immune from being lynched for today. Should he reach majority you will default to no lynch.

[/mech]

[Eddard Stark]

Magua (1) - Danakillsu

Zdenek (

Lynch Immune

) (5) - Magua, popsofctown, hasdgfas, LynchMePls, Twilight Sparkle

Locke Lamora (1) Zdenek

Not voting (3) Benmage, Locke Lamora, Shadow1psc

*10 players remain, 6 to lynch someone.
*Checking if anyone needs a prod
*Don't drink and post. You may embarass yourself.
*Deadline here

[popsofctown]

facepalm

[hasdgfas]

unvote

[Shadow1psc]

Well then.

[hasdgfas]

*points at Benmage*
*ponders*

LYNCHING ORDER:

Benmage - Hand of the King
DrippingGoofball
Bunnylover
Danakillsu
Hasdgfas
Shadow1psc
popsofctown
Locke Lamora
LynchMePls
Twilight Sparkle
Magua
Zdenek


Setael

[Twilight Sparkle]

unvote

and to think, you all mocked me when I said we should throw governor away, even if it goes to conf. town

-hito

[Twilight Sparkle]

I'm supposed to leave for work right now, but I cannot keep myself from posting this first. I think you've just destroyed my morale for this game.

On D1, Benmage called us scum because we called you town but didn't raise you. hito explained it somewhat more diplomatically, but here's the honest truth of why I didn't.

I outright said in the QT, "I would rather that scum was hand than a town Benmage." Because I think you have the potential to utterly cripple town in ways that your standard mislynch fodder VI cannot. But even I never expected something as bad as this.

You are pathologically arrogant in a way that makes your Mafia play toxic. I use the word pathological because if this is not just an Internet persona but how you are in real life, then you are genuinely sick and need the help of a counsellor. Even if you don't have the slightest clue of what's going on, you would rather have a tiny scrap of power in a forum game than help your faction. Once you come to a decision in your mind, even if it's based on incomplete information or the wrong conclusion (which it usually is, because you are not as logical or bright as you think you are), you refuse to reevaluate and listen to explanations of why your decision might be suboptimal. Because that would mean not being the most powerful player in town.

And that's exactly why you used your power. Hey, remember that you had Zdenek as one of your top scum suspects? Nothing changed since then. But you are a pathetic little boy who wants to be the one calling the shots, and you were all sulky that you might die without getting a chance to govern someone and show you mean business. And furthermore, it had to be someone who EVERYONE wanted to lynch, so you could feel REALLY powerful.

I will give you that you can look very town, and that being confident and arrogant at the very least gets people to listen to you. And towns do often need someone to fill that niche...but only when that player has good scumhunting skills, intelligence, rationality, objectivity, and strategy.

And furthermore, you will not once apologize for what you have just done, because you are an odious human being. You will just go, "Man, I had [Insert Scum Player you mentioned something negative about on D3] pegged." You have never admitted you were in the wrong when you pulled shit like this in game after game.

And chances are that you have just singlehandedly lost the game for the town right now. You lost it when you decided to singlehandedly ask multiple people to claim their roles on D3 (ignoring a single reason for why you shouldn't), you lost it when you decided to out all the confirmed townies to the scum just to force a massclaim (rather than try to refute the reasons why we SHOULDN'T have one, or maybe think there was something you were missing), you lost it when you told the scum which confirmed townie was going to be protected just because you thought you were SOOOOOOO much more valuable to the town than DGB. But this is the last straw.

I don't have blacklists. But from now on, I will actively avoid games you are in, because I'm sick of your antics.

Zdenek was fucking obvscum by his reactions today. His only arguments in his defence were "I said something negative about three scum," and "Hey, you shouldn't be lynching me, but a SK, just in case there's a second Mafia." Did you see his fucking horrible reaction to Magua's posts? "Oh, I agree with him. Oh, I can't agree with him, because that rules me out as scum? Never mind, then." His posts have been completely wooden, and lack all conviction. He hasn't done any scumhunting whatsoever today. There is not a single player in this game who is even as close to as sure a bet as scum as Zdenek would have been.

Furthermore, by process of elimination, HE FUCKING HAD TO BE STARK. WITHOUT A DOUBT. Every other player in the game (with the exception of LMP, who is still much more unlikely) was cleared. I even did the analysis in the QT to work out if we could afford to lynch Mafia today if there were two survivors. It didn't make a difference, because we'd have the same number of lynches if we had two NKs tonight instead of one (due to the odd-even rule).

But you didn't actually notice all that, because you aren't that good a Mafia player. Or maybe you might have been a good Mafia player had you been willing to stop, read, and listen to the arguments of the people around you. Or maybe you did notice that, but it's exactly as I'd suspected: you don't care if town wins; you just want to be able to say you used your power once this game.

For the record, the fact that I'm posting this confirms me, because I know how stupid and blinded by your own cognitive biases you are. Right now you will be utterly convinced that I'm scum and push our lynch, because I SAID YOU'RE A TERRIBLE WORTHLESS EXCUSE FOR A MAFIA PLAYER, AND ONLY SCUM WOULD SAY YOU HAVE THE BRAIN OF A LUMP OF COAL, FOR HAHA, YOU ARE THE SMARTEST PLAYER IN THE GAME, AND CONFIRMED TOWN, SO YOUR JUDGMENT IS INFALLIBLE. In fact, you probably won't even believe it, but you're a bully who hates it when someone says he's wrong.

But town has lost anyway because of your ego, so I really don't care anymore. This is so unforgivable, and I've seen you pull these stunts in so many games that I'm not going to hold back. You have lost a game that town was almost certainly going to win. I desperately hoping this is a fucking wake-up call to you on why you should dramatically change the way you play Mafia. But you're too sick to change.

And I stand by everything written here, so this is 100% Mina, written without the input of hito or Sotty. Fuck, now I'm late for work.

[popsofctown]

I enjoyed that post

[Magua]

I asking because I'm wondering about a connection. Your rationale for clearing Dana is partly based on there not being any scum goons. This seems like a strange attitude to take, based on what we know about this setup and the previous setup. This partially concerns me because I think it's always dangerous to make an assumption that there are the lowest possible amount of scum - numbers are always more crucial than PRs, at the end of the day - and partially because I think that you're looking for an extra reason to call Dana town, which seems unnecessary. On the other side of the coin, there's something about Dana's 'let's lynch Magua' that seems very fake. It's based on very little for a vote this late in the game; it looks like he's trying to make a point that he's voting you, who's not as easy a lynch as Zdenek. Now, both of you are relatively close to the bottom of the lynch list that a lot of players are operating off. My hunch is that you're doing your best to make sure that there's enough to confuse the connections between you that if one of you is lynched, the other is not immediately connected as a buddy. That's why I was trying to find out why you thought there were only 5 scum and none of them VTs.

Great. Do you think dana and I are partners?

As for your complaint that I am trying to cast suspicion on anyone I can, you're basically complaining that I'm exercising independent thought in the face of massive consensus and very little real scumhunting. I've found this game frustrating and I think I've been very honest about that. I've had less time than I'd like and the cases I have pushed hard have either been ignored or shot down by people with very little reasoning. For example, my Shadow case was pretty much ignored (even Shadow only responded once and then ignored the majority of my points). The 'hypocop' stuff didn't help; I'm really not a fan of people saying 'x is town because of SECRET ROLE INFO' and then sitting on it for days. Then we got to the list stage and I've already made my views clear on that. Why do you think this aspect of my play is indicative of an SK?

No, my problem with you isn't that you're exercising independent thought in the face of massive consensus. My problem is that your posts seem designed to remind people over and over again to be suspicious of everyone, even people you yourself are not suspicious of. Eg, it's not, "Nexus, you shouldn't think Raivann is town because of his nameclaim, I think Raivann is scum because of X, Y, Z", it's "Nexus, you shouldn't think Raivann is town because of his nameclaim...and oh, btw, I think Raivann is town" That's goddamn scummy.

I say SK, rather than scum, because I'm convinced that there's no way you can be Stark.

LMP is sort of correct. I was looking for a reaction from Magua, which I practically already told you guys, and which I definitely got. It wasn't a good one, to say the least. Magua, you certainly aren't trying very hard to show me you're not the wagon for today, you would rather make me look like an idiot (which I can do all by myself, thank you very much). MY VOTE STAYS.

I will summarize:
danakillsu: We should lynch Magua. We get information either way.
Magua: What information do you get when I flip town?
danakillsu: If you're scum we win, and if you're town then we can think about lynching LL.

There is literally nothing there for me to respond to that doesn't involve a lot of profanity. It is wrong on simply every conceivable level I can think of.

So, do you think Zdenek is town? Your posting says that you do. You think I'm one scum. There are at least two. Who do you think is the second?

Benmage: Sigh.

UNVOTE: Zdenek

I literally - and I mean that, literally - do not think anyone aside from Zdenek is Stark.

VOTE: Locke Lamora

[Twilight Sparkle]

Vote: Locke Lamora

[Twilight Sparkle]

also I've decided Magua is confirmed town because if he isn't town I officially don't even care anymore

[LimMePls]

@TS re 256: I am not sure I understand the question. Please reformat.

LMP is sort of correct. I was looking for a reaction from Magua, which I practically already told you guys, and which I definitely got. It wasn't a good one, to say the least. Magua, you certainly aren't trying very hard to show me you're not the wagon for today, you would rather make me look like an idiot (which I can do all by myself, thank you very much). MY VOTE STAYS.

So your reasons are so secret that even though you've gotten an awesome reaction from him, you're not going to explain what it was or in any way try to influence us to your point of view. You're simply going to say "I was trying to get a reaction, I got one, so I'm happy"?

I will summarize:
danakillsu: We should lynch Magua. We get information either way.
Magua: What information do you get when I flip town?
danakillsu: If you're scum we win, and if you're town then we can think about lynching LL.

Pretty much spot on. But don't forget this bit:

LMP: dana, you're not stupid, what the hell is going on here.
dana: You're right, I'm not stupid! I was just reaction fishing. And I got a reaction, and it tells me he's scum. So my vote stays. *nevermind I'm not going to even bother trying to show people what the hell I'm talking about, what the "reaction" was, why it was scummy, or anything*

Unvote
Vote: danakillsu

[Locke Lamora]

See,

that's

why this game is incredibly frustrating. Is Benmage really confirmed town? That was so monumentally anti-town it's hard to believe (thought you'd like that, Magua).

Magua: maybe. The interaction looked strange and disingenuous. That explanation fit. As for that Nexus post, it was a poor piece of reasoning that had no place in his read on Raivann. If it's scummy to tell people to stop using illogical reasoning then yes, I'm scummy. If it's scummy to challenge someone who claimed they had a scumread on Raivann and then dropped it for poor reasoning then yes, I'm scummy. What I was drilling into Nexus was the notion that he was dismissing his suspicion of Raivann based on flawed reasoning. This was either bad townie logic, which is not helpful to the town and should be stopped as early as possible, or scum trying to slide off a wagon based on weak reasoning, which should be challenged.

Think about your other points. Could Zdenek be SK? Yes. Could Dana be a goon? Yes. What is wrong with either of these theories? I wasn't annoyed that the Kettleblacks were cleared, I was annoyed that this game has degenerated into 'hey, let's lynch from a list'. TS has been saying 'LL could be SK' since D2. Shadow threw out the potential of LMP being scum on D3 (this is something I called him out on because I think it was immensely unproductive and clearly not a topic of discussion that was relevant at that stage). Do you think these players are scum? If not, why is what they have been doing different from my thinking 'you know what, it is possible that the scum do have a goon' or 'hey, remember when Zdenek got roleblocked and there was only one kill'?

And while I'm at it, what made you go from calling me confirmed town to obv-SK?

[Benmage]

2 things because I am at work and obviously can't address much.

1. Kast investigation on Zdenek. Where is the argument he is scum? The people who think this believe him to be a BP scum, and obviously not the GF......wow. a simple correct will suffice.

2. For those who think Zdenek the SK if that's still thought by some, what logical reasoning would nexus have for not rbing zdenek?

And lastly there is something I wanted address specifically and obviously more.

So do me a favor and hold off on votes.

Dana is confirmed town too....

[danakillsu]

@TS re 256: I am not sure I understand the question. Please reformat.

LMP is sort of correct. I was looking for a reaction from Magua, which I practically already told you guys, and which I definitely got. It wasn't a good one, to say the least. Magua, you certainly aren't trying very hard to show me you're not the wagon for today, you would rather make me look like an idiot (which I can do all by myself, thank you very much). MY VOTE STAYS.

So your reasons are so secret that even though you've gotten an awesome reaction from him, you're not going to explain what it was or in any way try to influence us to your point of view. You're simply going to say "I was trying to get a reaction, I got one, so I'm happy"?

I will summarize:
danakillsu: We should lynch Magua. We get information either way.
Magua: What information do you get when I flip town?
danakillsu: If you're scum we win, and if you're town then we can think about lynching LL.

Pretty much spot on. But don't forget this bit:

LMP: dana, you're not stupid, what the hell is going on here.
dana: You're right, I'm not stupid! I was just reaction fishing. And I got a reaction, and it tells me he's scum. So my vote stays. *nevermind I'm not going to even bother trying to show people what the hell I'm talking about, what the "reaction" was, why it was scummy, or anything*

Unvote
Vote: danakillsu

Thanks for the misrep and voting confirmed town, bro. And I'm the stupid one?

Locke Lamora's not a BAD lynch for today, but Magua is better. Please reconsider, everyone.

[Magua]

See,

that's

why this game is incredibly frustrating. Is Benmage really confirmed town? That was so monumentally anti-town it's hard to believe (thought you'd like that, Magua).

Yes. He really is. And thanks. Knew I could count on you.

Think about your other points. Could Zdenek be SK? Yes. Could Dana be a goon? Yes. What is wrong with either of these theories? I wasn't annoyed that the Kettleblacks were cleared, I was annoyed that this game has degenerated into 'hey, let's lynch from a list'. TS has been saying 'LL could be SK' since D2. Shadow threw out the potential of LMP being scum on D3 (this is something I called him out on because I think it was immensely unproductive and clearly not a topic of discussion that was relevant at that stage). Do you think these players are scum? If not, why is what they have been doing different from my thinking 'you know what, it is possible that the scum do have a goon' or 'hey, remember when Zdenek got roleblocked and there was only one kill'?

There wasn't a massclaim until D4, so your annoyance about "lynching from a list" isn't really valid until then.

And again, there's nothing wrong with those theories. What's wrong is that you throw these theories out regardless of whether you believe them or not. It's not a matter of "dana could be a Stark goon" -- we all know dana could be a Stark goon. I, for instance, don't believe there is a Stark goon, so I don't think dana is Stark. You attack me over this, but you never say that you think dana *is* a Stark goon. You just keep throwing out "it's possible." You argue that your interest in the game has gone down since it became "lynch from a list" *in the very same post* where you're answering someone asking who *you* would like to lynch.

You say Zdenek could be the SK. But you don't say he *is* the SK, and you don't vote him. Do you think Zdenek is town? Scum? So many of your posts are fence-sitting, or laying out what's possible without an opinion. That's what gets me.

I mean, D2 starts with you being a mod-confirmed lyncher target. You could've been the clear who led the town in lynches; you could've told Benmage to sit down and shut up. But you do *neither* of these things. You seem to avoid throwing your weight around. You seem to avoid drawing attention to yourself.

And while I'm at it, what made you go from calling me confirmed town to obv-SK?

I did not, prior to D5, believe that there was an SK.

1. Kast investigation on Zdenek. Where is the argument he is scum? The people who think this believe him to be a BP scum, and obviously not the GF......wow. a simple correct will suffice.

What's the hard part to understand?

[Benmage]

I've never seen a game with a fully BP scum who wasn't the GF.

[Magua]

I've never seen a game with a fully BP scum who wasn't the GF.

How many games have you seen with scum Neighborizers and town Rolecops?

[Benmage]

I've never seen a game with a fully BP scum who wasn't the GF.

How many games have you seen with scum Neighborizers and town Rolecops?

I could get you games like that. Not now obviously.