Newbie 1070 - Game Over

[Nachomamma8]

Glad to hear, split.

I'll have some words for the newbies and the experienced players willing to hear them once the mod comes in and resolves everything.

[Alduskkel]

Final Vote Count

splitfarvle (3) - Ellyssa, Nachomamma8, Stels
Ellyssa (1) - Rain

Not Voting (1) - splitfarvle

With 5 alive it is 3 to lynch.

[Alduskkel]

splitfarvle,

Cop

, was lynched Day 3.

Ellyssa and Nachomamma8,

Mafia Goons

, have won!

Now would be the time for all players, dead and alive, to discuss the game.

[Alduskkel]

Night Actions

Night 1

Mafia kill Jack Forman.
splitfarvle investigates Stels.

Night 2
Mafia kill Quaroath.
splitfarvle investigates Rain.

I won't post the Mafia Quicktopic; they can do that themselves if they want.

[T-Bone]

I **** KNEW IT!!!

Let that be a lesson to everyone. Wall posting does not equal town. Though kudos to Ellyssa as she was able to cover her mistakes enough to fool everyone else.

I'll give a more constructive analysis later. Just wanted to come and say I told you so.

Love you guys.

[Ellyssa]

Stress argh. Hi T-Bone! <3 Sorry

So sorry to town, I felt extremely scummy IRL throughout the game. I'd like to say you all were a great group of folks to play with in general compared to some of the troll-like posting and screaming in browsing some of the other Newbie games!

@split I think if you had actually voted early on in Day 3 it would have added a bit of credibility; in the end it was one extra thing we could attack you on.. that being said I think you did about all you could overall.

@Rain, T-bone, others: Can you point out some of the things that stood out to you and raised red flags about my play? I know I was definitely hesitant about attacking barefoot for a bit there.. but not sure if I would have even if I was town heh. I still don't get how I flailed against split in D3, I thought my points stood up quite well, if you could elaborate a little Rain?

Big thanks for Nacho to replacing in too, and Alduskkel for modding! It went a bit slow near the end of D2, but thankfully picked up again.

Our QT is here:
http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/JaktMYeE38L
Is there a dead QT or something in newbie games?
there's not much on it. We didn't actually get to talk after Nacho replaced in early on D2, barefoot didn't give any indication she was going to leave until after the day had started, so doh there.
Jack Forman drew the kill on Night 1 because he voted no-lynch and as much as it was a scummy thing to do, I thought it was also a new-cop-like thing to do, wanting to get to night early. Nice job on his part heh.
Quaroath drew the kill on Night 2 because of well.. process of elimination. I didn't want to kill split due to sticking out like a sore thumb in terms of being obv-townie and still alive, nor did I want to kill the bottom couple potential mislynches, so he was kind of in between.
Never suspected split. Had a heart attack when you claimed cop on D3. What were the odds we killed the two you didn't inspect, grrr.

[Quaroath]

Stress argh. Hi T-Bone! <3 Sorry

So sorry to town, I felt extremely scummy IRL throughout the game. I'd like to say you all were a great group of folks to play with in general compared to some of the troll-like posting and screaming in browsing some of the other Newbie games!

@split I think if you had actually voted early on in Day 3 it would have added a bit of credibility; in the end it was one extra thing we could attack you on.. that being said I think you did about all you could overall.

@Rain, T-bone, others: Can you point out some of the things that stood out to you and raised red flags about my play? I know I was definitely hesitant about attacking barefoot for a bit there.. but not sure if I would have even if I was town heh. I still don't get how I flailed against split in D3, I thought my points stood up quite well, if you could elaborate a little Rain?

Big thanks for Nacho to replacing in too, and Alduskkel for modding! It went a bit slow near the end of D2, but thankfully picked up again.

Our QT is here:
http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/JaktMYeE38L
Is there a dead QT or something in newbie games?
there's not much on it. We didn't actually get to talk after Nacho replaced in early on D2, barefoot didn't give any indication she was going to leave until after the day had started, so doh there.
Jack Forman drew the kill on Night 1 because he voted no-lynch and as much as it was a scummy thing to do, I thought it was also a new-cop-like thing to do, wanting to get to night early. Nice job on his part heh.
Quaroath drew the kill on Night 2 because of well.. process of elimination. I didn't want to kill split due to sticking out like a sore thumb in terms of being obv-townie and still alive, nor did I want to kill the bottom couple potential mislynches, so he was kind of in between.
Never suspected split. Had a heart attack when you claimed cop on D3. What were the odds we killed the two you didn't inspect, grrr.

TBH, if you hadn't nk'd me, I would have been all over you D3 Ellysa, no way I believe you live through both nights, with that townie of a feeling. I started getting bad feeling about 24 hours after the night started when i started rereading D1, and your half defensive posture about barefoot. Meh. I didn't help, didn't do very well. Good job scum.

[Ellyssa]

Hi! Sorry about killing. Hope you and your wife fare well! I'm fairly sure that would have come from someone on D3 anyway if split didn't flash his (obviously fake!) cop badge in.

Not sure how to really deal with that overall as scum though. I'd probably have invoked the too townie fallacy, and say that all my lynchwagons were all fake so far, so maybe scum was laughing all the way to the bank at me and waiting for town to say that. I mean Rain survived as the IC, and split also survived as being very townie.. I don't like to kill the too obvious ones. :/ I think I probably could have done better/different on that bf-lynch though if it stood out that much. Hmm.

Nah you generated discussion and did good, good enough to warrant the NK for being dangerous, and I like your hamster sig.

[Quaroath]

First appt is today at 2:20 PST for the first ultrasound and accurate due ate estimation! woo!

I'd love to play with you again Ellyssa, I enjoy your play style greatly.

[Quaroath]

The avatar I currently have is the one I generally sport, Hamtaro inspired the LotR hamster sig.

[splitfarvle]

Congrats Quaroath! My son just turned 5 months, and the best advice I can give is: Sleep now! Before it's too late!

My 2 cents for Ellyssa: I think your meta might get you into trouble down the line, so maybe consider toning down the townie vibes. Fwiw I think you'd be a good IC.

[Stels]

@Everyone Town: I apologize, but really, everything pointed to me voting splitfarvle.
Splitfarvle lacked a vote from the start, he showed his scum suspects clearly, knew who the town people were. The fact that Rain voted already, one of the two people who he KNOWS was town, he didn't even consider voting for the sole purpose of convincing me and appearing righteous. This struck me as weird, why would someone who was confident of his role and alignment as well as knowing 100% who each one was be afraid to vote someone who already has a vote on them as well as being a 100% scum which you knew of.

1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Vanilla Townies
1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Vanilla Townies
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Vanilla Townies

I assumed that if you claimed cop as scum, you were relying on either setup # 2. Setup #1 is impossible, #3 would have also been impossible if you were actually scum which I considered you were and #4 impossible. That left #2 where you could safely claim cop as scum and hope to trick the crap out of us (at least me).
Knowing how Nachomamma8 plays? I thought that if he was scum, he wouldn't put himself at a disadvantage where they know that there is a PR if there was one without implicating himself, therefore I assumed he was town (Rain, this is what I meant about the trap crap WHICH YOU NEVER UNDERSTOOD).
Honestly, the actual probable people I considered scum were Splitfarvle, Rain and Ellyssa. Lynching Splitfarvle, which appeared in the uber-majority of my scum-team lists, he was a sure-fire target for me as well as voting behavior and all that crap put together to back it up.
I see I made a mistake and I apologize to the rest of the 6 of you for ruining our chance for victory. Can't win the all >_>
Good game everyone.

@Nachomamma8: I hate you, gut was right on you, but then I bring a piece of meta and convince myself you're town. Next time I see you, I will not hesitate to lynch you or NK you like "We" did in 1052.

[Stels]

@Rain: forgot to add, but you could have made your point a bit clearer about Ellyssa flailing, because I didn't see that happening in D3. You just sat there doing nothing...

Yay, now I can play as an IC!

[T-Bone]

Can I coerce anyone to replace into a game for me?

Anyway. Yes Ellyssa you did indeed fall into the Too Townie thing. You were trying too hard I think. As town you obviously have little to lose with your death, that you can be aggressive and stuff. I find players that come across as scummy are town who realize that they have a job to accomplish. What stood out to me is your concern about making sure everything you said was consistent. To me, your posting looked a little OCD.

Though you did play great. You pretty much controlled the other players so that when I stood against you Day 2, and Split Day 3 it was too little too late as you had everyone under your townie spell. As scum it is important to control what the town thinks and does, which is what you did all game. MVP performance.

[Nachomamma8]

I will give player feedback tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

(addendum: for those who want it)

[splitfarvle]

I would appreciate it Nacho

[Ellyssa]

Definitely please if you don't mind (And thanks for the thoughts so far as well!)

[Stels]

I hate you, but please go on.

[Quaroath]

always willing to take feedback

[Nachomamma8]

*cough*

Sorry this took so long, but I'm here.

[Nachomamma8]

Split, first of all, you have an excellent cop strategy for most games that aren't newbies. Usually, you won't have enough time to get enough innocents before LyLo to get enough innocents to make up the majority (that being said, you're the only cop I've seen that's managed to have two innocents at LyLo, so congratulations). But, if you find yourself in LyLo with a similar situation where you have innocents on everyone but the number of scum left, I'd recommend on fakeclaiming a guilty on the weaker of the two scum, then claiming the truth in twilight or the next day. That way, you might be able to enlist the help of the caught scum's buddy. For example, had you fakeclaimed a guilty on me, you might have got Ellyssa to panic and vote me, or defend me unnecessarily.

That being said, don't let your day play go to the wayside. You did a good job of appearing town to everyone, I think, but you really weren't that much of a presence during the day. Be more aggressive and fluid with your vote; you voted a grand total of four times during the game, one of those being your random vote. It's a rare case when you manage to peg scum with your first vote. So keep this in mind, and don't be afraid to pressure lots of different people to get their reactions, then compare them and vote the one that seems most suspicious.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh!
If you've broken the game, always put down a vote. The "go on and put down a vote and I'll hammer" bit during LyLo was extremely suspicious; it made it look like you were waiting to see if Rain or Stels were going to choose a townie so you could set up a quickhammer with your buddy.

[Nachomamma8]

Ellyssa, you did an amazing job of appearing protown. I'm pretty sure the only person who even gave a thought to you being scum was T-Bone, and that didn't really count since he was dying, dying, dead.

But one thing that would help your scumgame immensely is learning to direct the town yourself. As you've seen, no matter how much towncred you've built up, it won't last forever; townies are weird and will turn on you for an instant, even if it's for all the wrong reasons. So, use it while you have it. Be the town leader, in other words.

Also, distancing/bussing is an excellent tool, and you shouldn't be afraid to use it, and learn how and when to use it. Your distancing with barefoot day 1 was weak; you voted her even though you said Jack was a stronger suspect of yours, and thus you never really put any pressure on her, but you did contribute to her lynch. There are two kinds of busses that scum should utilize the most; the town cred bus and the obligatory bus. The towncred bus comes when your partner is playing badly, but hasn't really fallen under too much suspicion yet. You know he isn't going to live towards LyLo, and so push him with absolutely everything you have, get the lynch, and have him die when it's good for the scumteam for him to die. It's good form to tell him the bus is coming during the night, usually; but if emergencies arise, don't be afraid to bus first and explain later. The obligatory bus should be done quietly. When the town is so against your partner that he's going to be lynched that day, get on the wagon. Don't provide a big case, just get on the wagon and let him die. That way, when everyone is looking for the partner off the wagon, they aren't looking at you.

Finally, never kill someone to frame someone else, then mention that as a possibility after the night ends. Let a townie pick that up, then hop onto that line of reasoning.

[Nachomamma8]

Stels, don't be afraid to bullshit cases as town. You and I both know that you had me pegged on Day 2, but you didn't get any support for that lynch because you didn't have a case on me. Honestly, there have been plenty of times as town where I've suspected someone as scum purely from gut, and so I made up a case, push the lynch with all of my might, and then let the townies around me figure out the ACTUAL reasons. Those pbpa's you do are good for that, although I find going through the ISO, quoting random posts, and then saying why they're scummy is far more effective because it makes the case look longer.

Otherwise, I thought you did a pretty good job. You questioned Ellyssa far more than anyone else did, and you were voting scum for the majority of the game.
Maybe next time <3