A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Locke Lamora]

Magua: you and/or Zdenek. I don't think LMP would claim that kill unprompted to bring the increased risk of drawing an SK/scum kill, so that alleviates most of the concern I have about the presence of that role. I believe it was Mikujin who got bitten last game by claiming a PR and getting taken out by the other scumteam.

Regarding your earlier post about my play trying to avoid attention, I really don't think that's true. Yep, my activity has not been great most of the game. That's my fault for taking on too much. I can see why you would think my absences might be indicative of trying to stay under the radar, but I've not been trying to avoid attention when I've made posts. The easiest thing to do would have been to follow along with all the hypocop results and claims and keep myself as far up the lynch list as possible when it got around to that.

Also, you think Zoraster was given a lynch target who was also NK-immune? Really?

Benmage: I think Nexus blocked Setael N4. You think that's implausible?

[Magua]

Yeah, remember my theory waaay back when, that I could see the balance of "Hey sk, you're NK AND investigation immune!...but there's a lyncher out for your blood."

Scum leaving an SK alive makes sense when there are so many confirms and the scum is so off. They can count on the sk shooting confirms.

Scum would not know there was an SK N1.

Scum prioritized shooting xvart over hasdgfas or Locke Lamora N2. This could make sense if scum knew he was a PR -- a reason I was suspicious of Kast D3 -- but doesn't make a lot of sense otherwise.

Magua: you and/or Zdenek. I don't think LMP would claim that kill unprompted to bring the increased risk of drawing an SK/scum kill, so that alleviates most of the concern I have about the presence of that role. I believe it was Mikujin who got bitten last game by claiming a PR and getting taken out by the other scumteam.

Great. We agree on LMP, at least. So now that Zdenek is off the table, why are you not voting me?

Also, you think Zoraster was given a lynch target who was also NK-immune? Really?

Yes.

[LimMePls]

1) Majority rules. I assume you're not going to vote for yourself, that means if 4 other people aren't convinced you're a good lynch, the consensus is you
2) LL is not scum. SK, maybe, but we're not SK hunting right now are we? If we are, we put magua back on the table though too.
3) Process of elimination.
4) See: 4th grade. If you want to argue over semantics, you're putting up less of a fight then I woulda thought. will not be lynched.

1) Show me the 4 people who are unwilling to lynch dana. That I'm aware of I've not seen a single person say they are "unwilling" to do so, I've only seen people declare "townish" reads, and most of them grudgingly (or with what I think is bad logic about vanilla=non-stark).
2) Fair enough, I didn't see that this was "non-SK scum" specific. More on this in a sec.
3) So consensus doesn't mean what you think it means then.
4) Nice dodge.

What troubles me about your "consensus" talk is it all looks to me like your personal opinions wrapped in "well, this is the consensus view, so clearly it's the only place for discussion". The fact is that in no way that I can see has the group been in a consensus with the notions you are espousing.

Also, you seem to imply that we shouldn't be SK hunting, since you've removed your SK suspects from the "consensus". Why should we not eliminate the SK today if possible?

[popsofctown]

IT MAY IN FACT NOT BE POSSIBLE LMP

[LimMePls]

^^True enough. No use crying over spilled milk though. The point still stands that I don't know why we wouldn't hunt the SK like any other scum at this point.

[Locke Lamora]

Magua: are we in a rush? Honestly, I'm still thinking about everything and I find Dana's interactions with the flipped Starks to be more like that of a buddy than yours, so I'm not 100% sold on you being scum. I do have a question: what's your quote for Walder Frey?

[popsofctown]

The SK might actually be more powerful than what's left of the scum.

LL, make sure there's no stepping in pm quote territory

[Magua]

Magua: are we in a rush?

I like people to put their vote where their mouth is. You say Zdenek or I. You can't lynch Zdenek today. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Honestly, I'm still thinking about everything and I find Dana's interactions with the flipped Starks to be more like that of a buddy than yours, so I'm not 100% sold on you being scum.

I will summarize for you dana's interaction to flipped Starks:

Xtoxm: No interaction.
diddin: No interaction.
MagnaofIllusion: No interaction.
Setael: D1: Diediedie D2: Diediedie D3: Diediewhyareyounotdeadyetdie D4: Diediedie D5: Diediedie

I may have missed some subtleties there.

I do have a question: what's your quote for Walder Frey?

I’ll match him son for son and still have nineteen and a half left when all his are dead

[Magua]

I'm quite serious about that Setael bit. There were 78 vote counts through the end of D5. danakillsu is voting Mikujin/Setael in 60 of them. D1 I could buy bussing. D2, not so much. D3, after MagnaofIllusion is dead, no way.

[Eddard Stark]

VOTE COUNT

Magua (1) - Danakillsu
Zdenek (

Lynch Immune

) (1) -popsofctown,

Locke Lamora (3) Zdenek, Magua, Twilight Sparkle

Danakillsu (1) LynchMePls
LynchMePls (1) Shadow1psc

Not voting (3) Benmage, Locke Lamora, hasdgfas

*10 players remain, 6 to lynch someone.
*Checking if anyone needs a prod
*Don't drink and post. You may embarass yourself.
*Deadline here

[Benmage]

I could get you games like that. Not now obviously.

Great. And I can get games with scum Bulletproofs who aren't Godfathers.

Thats what I'm asking for...

Do you have any reason for thinking Zdenek is town aside from the role?

Other than I recall him being pretty genuine and quick in his claim. Nothing. Shitty game. Does that mean nottown. I don't know...but I've been tossing around a lot in my head. (more cont:)

But yes, you answered my question with a question....can you answer the question, because based on your last response I am assuming no.

#2525 was pretty explicit, I thought.

In regards to? Why he's stark??...not asking that.

Pops.

Do you think Zdenek is SK, or Scum?
--U also linked a blank site, I guess for laughs….

TS

did you think Zdenek was scum or SK?

Also, you think Zoraster was given a lynch target who was also

NK-immune?

Really?

Benmage: I think Nexus blocked Setael N4. You think that's implausible?

UHHH yeah infact that makes a lot of sense considering if he was NK'd he wouldn't be lynched....

And. While I don't think it is implausible (duh horrible word choice nothing is absolute)...I certaintly wouldn't have blocked anyone other than Zdenek after everyone other than magua more or less said that was the ideal move...and there was a kill apparently blocked the previous night.
-----Would you(or anyone) in his shoes not have RB'd Zdenek... POINT MADE.

Now why would scum have had Zdenek shoot the night there was one kill, the night everyone told Nexus to RB Zdenek….??

Someone setting up a BP townie?? IDNO!

Also how does a SK defeat a BP Scum? Fucking seriously????

Finally, and back to the investigation. WHO else in the series other than TYWIN could've been Modified BP after Tyrion's death???

I have to run to the gym, still more to come.

[Benmage]

OH and DANA is off my lynch Table because there have been 0 goons and he was investigated as a VT.

The GF was in my book inv-immune. All goons auto invimmune too?? FUK NO. DANA IS MORE CONFIRMED TOWN THAN I AM.

[popsofctown]

SK OR SCUM. MY GUESS IS SCUM, COULD BE SK TOO.

[Magua]

I could get you games like that. Not now obviously.

Great. And I can get games with scum Bulletproofs who aren't Godfathers.

Thats what I'm asking for...

5 minutes of Googling:

Mini 1071 Secret Invasion Mafia KageLord Deadpool Regenerator (bulletproof) Which was modded by danakillsu, FWIW

Mini 912 Little Golden Mafia peanutman - Scruffy (Bulletproof Scum) - Wins

Mini 1091 Mafia Mania 1x Bulletproof Goon

Lord of the Rings Mafia WeirdRa, Sauron, Mordor Mafia Bulletproof Role-Name Cop

Mini 373 DOOMsville Mafia Bulletproof Goon(bird1111): Kill immune

Mini 992 Mafia in Handsometown AGar the NK Immune Unattractive Mafia Goon

There are more, if you care. I've omitted the Marathon games. Also omitted ones where it was a one-shot bulletproof.

Other than I recall him being pretty genuine and quick in his claim. Nothing. Shitty game. Does that mean nottown. I don't know...but I've been tossing around a lot in my head. (more cont:)

Look at my defense of Raivann. Look at my defense of BunnyLover. I know that shitty game doesn't mean nontown. But I also know that shitty game doesn't mean town.

Also how does a SK defeat a BP Scum? Fucking seriously????

Finally, and back to the investigation. WHO else in the series other than TYWIN could've been Modified BP after Tyrion's death???

Same way SK defeats a BP town, I would imagine.

And you're making the same mistake I made. You're taking Zdenek's word about his roleclaim (that he becomes bulletproof only after Tyrion dies), and using that to justify why you think he's town.

OH and DANA is off my lynch Table because there have been 0 goons and he was investigated as a VT.

The GF was in my book inv-immune. All goons auto invimmune too?? FUK NO. DANA IS MORE CONFIRMED TOWN THAN I AM.

This I agree with.

[Benmage]

So Magua, Zdenek is the final scum?

And there's still an SK about?

[Twilight Sparkle]

Scum would not know there was an SK N1.

Scum prioritized shooting xvart over hasdgfas or Locke Lamora N2. This could make sense if scum knew he was a PR -- a reason I was suspicious of Kast D3 -- but doesn't make a lot of sense otherwise.

I think you misunderstood me here. What I'm saying is that,

assuming

scum shot LL N1 and had their shot bounce off of his power armor, it makes sense that they wouldn't try to get him *lynched* because they were downtempo from D2 on and they could use all the kills they could get.

[Magua]

So Magua, Zdenek is the final scum?

And there's still an SK about?

Yes, and yes.

[Locke Lamora]

Magua: yes, I think Dana tunnelled on one member of the scumteam all game and ignored the rest. He actually goes out of his way to not downgrade his Setael suspicion - for instance, he agrees that he'd have a townread on Setael purely based on the catchup post, but he doesn't really change his level of suspicion to match that. Later he misreps Setael, admits it was a slight misrep but still keeps his vote parked there. If there was a hidden agenda here based on a PR result I could also see the motivation for that, but given that he's claiming VT, the refusal to budge from this stance looks like he's deliberately making a point. Once he reached the stage where he didn't use Setael's catchup as a reason to downgrade that suspicion, I don't see how he could have backed off without basically condemning himself when Setael died. Once Setael flips, of course he falls back on saying that no buddy would bus that hard, which would be the entire point if he was Setael's buddy.

As for why scum didn't kill me, I don't know. I made it quite obvious that I thought Mikujin was scum and after Zoraster's flip most people were treating me as confirmed town, so it's beyond me why they wouldn't try to kill me, particularly N1/N2.

Has anyone ever heard of giving a lyncher a target who can't be NKed? It seems to me like it'd increase the role's win chances by a significant amount. Also, read Zoraster's claim again:

all right, all right. so that apparently didn't work. I shall now claim my actual role for giggles. Once I claimed this, I was likely lynched but more importantly it would be harder to lynch LL.

I am Oberyn Martell, Self Aligned. I want to avenge Elia's death. I win when Gregor Clegane (Locke Lamora) is lynched and I am on that lynch. If he dies by anything other than a lynch with me on it and I'm alive, then I join the Lannister cause.

That's it. That's all the power I have.

Ta-da. If you want to lynch a potential town player who has every reason to play for the town, go for it.

So those who want me lynched are arguing that town gains an extra player if the SK gets killed. Does that make sense to you?

[popsofctown]

I think LL just owned the idea of him being BP

[danakillsu]

Thanks for the misrep and voting confirmed town, bro. And I'm the stupid one?

1) I EXPLICITLY called you "not dumb". Nowhere did I say you were stupid. Nice ad hom though.

2) Explain exactly where I misrep'ed you. Saying it doesn't make it so.

3) Confirmed town?! Where? Screenshots or it didn't happen.

1) Not ad hom at all. I wasn't saying you were stupid, just that if people were calling me stupid, they have that much more reason to call you the same, since your vote on confirmed town was after many people had already stated that I was. Nor was the "and I'm the stupid one?" particularly directed at you, because I know you were saying the exact opposite. It was more directed at Magua. Reading that back, though, it does look rather misplaced.

2)

So your reasons are so secret that even though you've gotten an awesome reaction from him, you're not going to explain what it was or in any way try to influence us to your point of view. You're simply going to say "I was trying to get a reaction, I got one, so I'm happy"?

That is blatant misrep. I find it hard to believe you can't see that for yourself, but I'll explain it anyway. My reasons are not secret at all. I already explained what his reaction was: trying to make me look like an idiot (see "and I'm the stupid one?") rather than actually making a defense of his play. Your sentence in quotes just obviously leaves out part of what I was saying. It should read: "I was trying to get a reaction, I got one, IT WAS SCUMMY, so I'm GOING TO KEEP MY VOTE WHERE IT IS." I never dodged this question, by the way. I already said that the question itself was misrep.

3) I believe this has already been answered. First, there is the investigation. I have been confirmed to be goon/VT. My claim lines up with VT. It is not automatic that I would have a VT fakeclaim if I were a goon, so this decreases the chance of me being scum. Secondly, there is the Setael lynch. Some are saying I didn't have great reasons for lynching him. I don't agree, but even if one thinks this is true, that would be all the more reason to consider me town. Why would I bus a scumpal constantly with a half-baked case? There's no motive for scum there.

[LimMePls]

3) I believe this has already been answered. First, there is the investigation. I have been confirmed to be goon/VT. My claim lines up with VT. It is not automatic that I would have a VT fakeclaim if I were a goon, so this decreases the chance of me being scum. Secondly, there is the Setael lynch. Some are saying I didn't have great reasons for lynching him. I don't agree, but even if one thinks this is true, that would be all the more reason to consider me town. Why would I bus a scumpal constantly with a half-baked case? There's no motive for scum there.

NONE OF THESE THINGS MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN LIKE YOU CLAIM! THESE THINGS MAY BE FACTORS TO CONSIDER IN YOUR FAVOR, BUT IMO ALL OF THEM ARE JUST AS EASILY EXPLAINED WITH YOU AS SCUM AS YOU AS TOWN. SO CALLING YOURSELF "CONFIRMED TOWN" IS A BLATANT LIE!

Lets take them one at a time:

First, there is the investigation. I have been confirmed to be goon/VT. My claim lines up with VT. It is not automatic that I would have a VT fakeclaim if I were a goon, so this decreases the chance of me being scum.

This makes 0 sense. If you are a goon, then of COURSE you'd claim VT. What would your supposed fakeclaim have ANYTHING to do with it?

Secondly, there is the Setael lynch. Some are saying I didn't have great reasons for lynching him. I don't agree, but even if one thinks this is true, that would be all the more reason to consider me town. Why would I bus a scumpal constantly with a half-baked case? There's no motive for scum there.

EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS

. If you felt like your case was half-baked (as you claim here) then there is OF COURSE scum motivation for doing it. IT'S CALLED SAFE DISTANCING! You get to fling mud at your buddy, without worrying that you're actually gonna lead to a lynch, since the case is "half-baked". Also, YOU ARE CLAIMING RIGHT HERE THAT YOU WERE ATTACKING HIM WITH A HALF-BAKED CASE! If you are town, why did you do that? If your case was half-baked, why did you push it so religiously?

So, not only do your supposed reasons why you are "confirmed town" fail to even be reasons why you MIGHT be town, but you also are trying to pass them off as you being CONFIRMED! This is so bad it's sick.

OH and DANA is off my lynch Table because there have been 0 goons and he was investigated as a VT.

The GF was in my book inv-immune. All goons auto invimmune too?? FUK NO. DANA IS MORE CONFIRMED TOWN THAN I AM.

This is a valid observation, but is NOT enough to contradict dana's continued scum play since EARLY in this game, and sure as SHIT doesn't make him "confirmed town". Ascetic is "role-cop immune +" while goon is just "rolecop immune", so there is a difference. His play has been and continues to be pathetic. If you guys are unwilling to lynch him now, then fine, I'll move on, but this shit must NOT be forgotten. This play is ATROCIOUS.

[Benmage]

His play is atrocious, move on.

[danakillsu]

3) I believe this has already been answered. First, there is the investigation. I have been confirmed to be goon/VT. My claim lines up with VT. It is not automatic that I would have a VT fakeclaim if I were a goon, so this decreases the chance of me being scum. Secondly, there is the Setael lynch. Some are saying I didn't have great reasons for lynching him. I don't agree, but even if one thinks this is true, that would be all the more reason to consider me town. Why would I bus a scumpal constantly with a half-baked case? There's no motive for scum there.

NONE OF THESE THINGS MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN LIKE YOU CLAIM! THESE THINGS MAY BE FACTORS TO CONSIDER IN YOUR FAVOR, BUT IMO ALL OF THEM ARE JUST AS EASILY EXPLAINED WITH YOU AS SCUM AS YOU AS TOWN. SO CALLING YOURSELF "CONFIRMED TOWN" IS A BLATANT LIE!

Lets take them one at a time:

First, there is the investigation. I have been confirmed to be goon/VT. My claim lines up with VT. It is not automatic that I would have a VT fakeclaim if I were a goon, so this decreases the chance of me being scum.

This makes 0 sense. If you are a goon, then of COURSE you'd claim VT. What would your supposed fakeclaim have ANYTHING to do with it?

Secondly, there is the Setael lynch. Some are saying I didn't have great reasons for lynching him. I don't agree, but even if one thinks this is true, that would be all the more reason to consider me town. Why would I bus a scumpal constantly with a half-baked case? There's no motive for scum there.

EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS

. If you felt like your case was half-baked (as you claim here) then there is OF COURSE scum motivation for doing it. IT'S CALLED SAFE DISTANCING! You get to fling mud at your buddy, without worrying that you're actually gonna lead to a lynch, since the case is "half-baked". Also, YOU ARE CLAIMING RIGHT HERE THAT YOU WERE ATTACKING HIM WITH A HALF-BAKED CASE! If you are town, why did you do that? If your case was half-baked, why did you push it so religiously?

So, not only do your supposed reasons why you are "confirmed town" fail to even be reasons why you MIGHT be town, but you also are trying to pass them off as you being CONFIRMED! This is so bad it's sick.

It's almost funny how predictably horrible your points are. I actually have expected every single response you have offered, but could do nothing to prevent it. I'll try one last time, but if you refuse to see what I'm saying, that's going to be your problem.

If I was given a fakeclaim that WASN'T VT, then it wouldn't make much sense AS A VT. Therefore, the fact that my claim makes sense as a VT should tell you that my fakeclaim would have had to be VT from the start to make me scum. This makes me less likely scum, though admittedly not a ton less likely.

This second is more ridiculous than any rage I've ever seen Fate go on, and that is saying A LOT. Lets start with the end, because it is more easily refuted. TRY LOOKING AT THE CONTEXT. I DID NOT CLAIM TO HAVE A HALF-BAKED CASE ON SETAEL

ANYWHERE

. I said "I don't agree (that my reasons weren't great), but even IF one thinks this is true....Why would I bus a scumpal with a half-baked case". This is waaaaay too obviously misrep to even be a mistake on your part. You're trying way too hard to make me look scummy, whether because you're town who wants me to be scum or because you're scum who wants people to think I'm scum. And your reasons that doing that would have scum motivation make no sense. Where do you get the picture that I never had to worry that I would actually lead a lynch? LEADING A LYNCH IS PRECISELY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO, AND IN FACT DID. As you say, I pushed the lynch almost "religously". Scum simply don't tunnel on their buddies with cases that make no sense. So to reiterate, if you think my case on Setael was no good, that SHOULD make you think I'm town who got lucky rather than scum who pulled off the hardest, least effective bus in MS history.

[danakillsu]

By the way, for someone who sarcastically commented on my supposed "ad hom", you sure are throwing out a lot of "pathetic", "atrocious", and "sick".

[LimMePls]

If I was given a fakeclaim that WASN'T VT, then it wouldn't make much sense AS A VT. Therefore, the fact that my claim makes sense as a VT should tell you that my fakeclaim would have had to be VT from the start to make me scum. This makes me less likely scum, though admittedly not a ton less likely.

This is flatly false. Any claimed name could be VT. You are stretching and you are refusing to acknowledge that even if your point were true (which it isn't), IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN.

This second is more ridiculous than any rage I've ever seen Fate go on, and that is saying A LOT. Lets start with the end, because it is more easily refuted. TRY LOOKING AT THE CONTEXT. I DID NOT CLAIM TO HAVE A HALF-BAKED CASE ON SETAEL ANYWHERE. I said "I don't agree (that my reasons weren't great), but even IF one thinks this is true....Why would I bus a scumpal with a half-baked case". This is waaaaay too obviously misrep to even be a mistake on your part. You're trying way too hard to make me look scummy, whether because you're town who wants me to be scum or because you're scum who wants people to think I'm scum. And your reasons that doing that would have scum motivation make no sense. Where do you get the picture that I never had to worry that I would actually lead a lynch? LEADING A LYNCH IS PRECISELY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO, AND IN FACT DID. As you say, I pushed the lynch almost "religously". Scum simply don't tunnel on their buddies with cases that make no sense. So to reiterate, if you think my case on Setael was no good, that SHOULD make you think I'm town who got lucky rather than scum who pulled off the hardest, least effective bus in MS history.

Pretty much this entire paragraph is simply false. OF COURSE SCUM TUNNEL ON OTHER SCUM, ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T THINK IT'LL LEAD TO A LYNCH. In fact, I'd find tunneling scum with "half-baked" cases MORE likely that tunneling town with half-baked cases, as the tunneling town would probably give it up when others point out that the case is half-baked, while scum would continue riding it for the distancing. As LL points out, once you were committed to it, you couldn't really jump off when the wagon finally did gain real steam, you were committed to riding it out and hoping it bought you enough town cred.

Once again, you still dodge the fact that these things MAY (if you squint real hard and ignore the obvious scum motivations) lead people to think you are town, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN. Why did you call yourself confirmed town and then when challenged on it provide these two reasons as your proof to make that assertion? Do you honestly believe those two points make you "confirmed town"? Basically I've simply shown that your assertion that you are "confirmed town" is LUDICROUS.