A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[danakillsu]

You have shown nothing of the kind. This is all assumption and nothing more. Scum would never do what I have done, because it leads to the loss of one of their members unnecessarily. You can't form enough rhetoric to get around that. It makes no sense to say that I was tunneling and tunneling and tunneling and suddenly people see my point and I wish I could get off the wagon. Scum would have found something more useful to do with their time. Why would distancing help me if I didn't believe Setael would actually be lynched? The first point AS I HAVE ALREADY ADMITTED, only makes me more likely town. The second point is what confirms me more than just about anyone else here, and neglecting that will hurt the town greatly.

[popsofctown]

If I was given a fakeclaim that WASN'T VT, then it wouldn't make much sense AS A VT. Therefore, the fact that my claim makes sense as a VT should tell you that my fakeclaim would have had to be VT from the start to make me scum.

This makes me less likely scum,

though admittedly not a ton less likely

.

This is flatly false. Any claimed name could be VT.

You are stretching and you are refusing to acknowledge that even if your point were true

(which it isn't),

IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN

.hat

[Eddard Stark]

VOTE COUNT

Magua (1) - Danakillsu
Zdenek (

Lynch Immune

) (1) -popsofctown,

Locke Lamora (3) Zdenek, Magua, Twilight Sparkle

Danakillsu (1) LynchMePls
LynchMePls (1) Shadow1psc

Not voting (3) Benmage, Locke Lamora, hasdgfas

*10 players remain, 6 to lynch someone.
*Checking if anyone needs a prod
*Don't drink and post. You may embarass yourself.
*Deadline here

[Shadow1psc]

You have shown nothing of the kind. This is all assumption and nothing more. Scum would never do what I have done, because it leads to the loss of one of their members unnecessarily. You can't form enough rhetoric to get around that. It makes no sense to say that I was tunneling and tunneling and tunneling and suddenly people see my point and I wish I could get off the wagon. Scum would have found something more useful to do with their time. Why would distancing help me if I didn't believe Setael would actually be lynched? The first point AS I HAVE ALREADY ADMITTED, only makes me more likely town. The second point is what confirms me more than just about anyone else here, and neglecting that will hurt the town greatly.

I would just like to say, pointing out that scum wouldn't do the things you did is all moot. Wifom at best. I've seen scum use tactics that town would think scum would never use to win. I've seen someone bus the hell out of their own team all game and win. The good scum mentality, is that if someone on your team is playing badly, you acknowledge it in game and take them down. Hell, it makes sense if Mikujin felt like he was being bussed to hard for playing bad, that he asked to be replaced because the game wasn't fun. "Scum would never do what I did" is

never

a valid defense.

[hasdgfas]

You have shown nothing of the kind. This is all assumption and nothing more. Scum would never do what I have done, because it leads to the loss of one of their members unnecessarily. You can't form enough rhetoric to get around that. It makes no sense to say that I was tunneling and tunneling and tunneling and suddenly people see my point and I wish I could get off the wagon. Scum would have found something more useful to do with their time. Why would distancing help me if I didn't believe Setael would actually be lynched? The first point AS I HAVE ALREADY ADMITTED, only makes me more likely town. The second point is what confirms me more than just about anyone else here, and neglecting that will hurt the town greatly.

I would just like to say, pointing out that scum wouldn't do the things you did is all moot. Wifom at best. I've seen scum use tactics that town would think scum would never use to win. I've seen someone bus the hell out of their own team all game and win. The good scum mentality, is that if someone on your team is playing badly, you acknowledge it in game and take them down. Hell, it makes sense if Mikujin felt like he was being bussed to hard for playing bad, that he asked to be replaced because the game wasn't fun. "Scum would never do what I did" is

never

a valid defense.

*nods vigorously*

[danakillsu]

So both of you are saying there are no towntells. Wonderful. Guess you two can just replace out then, because scum and town don't act differently in this game.
And don't try to say "nah, it's just because you're trying to prove that you yourself are town". It's no different than if anyone else was saying it. It's not like I was doing something over and over and immediately trying to get towncred for it. I attacked scum for a VERY extended period of time, got them lynched, and THEN claimed to be confirmed town for it.

[Shadow1psc]

The argument, is that good scum know how to act like good town. If there were a sure fire system, town would never be lynched. Town can act scummy, scum can act town.

[danakillsu]

The argument, is that good scum know how to act like good town. If there were a sure fire system, town would never be lynched. Town can act scummy, scum can act town.

I know that. But for one thing, I'm not really good scum even when I'm scum (although I don't necessarily expect you to believe that). And mainly, where does this thinking get you? It tells you I'm not 100% confirmed town. Sure, I guess I'll admit that. But the point is, you need to use the tells that make the most sense. And they point a big, fat finger at me being town. And the biggest scumtell I've seen today is Magua's response to my vote on him.

[Magua]

@Locke Lamora:

Do you think Zoraster would have become a Lannister-aligned townie if you had been lynched?

@danakillsu:

Do you think I'm the Stark or the SK?

[Locke Lamora]

Only if he wasn't on the lynch. Otherwise I figure he'd have fulfilled his win condition and left the game.

[Magua]

@Locke Lamora:

Do you think Zoraster would have become a Lannister-aligned townie if you had been lynched?

Ergh. I mistyped. What I meant was:

Do you think Zoraster would have become Lannister aligned had you been night-killed?

[Locke Lamora]

Yes. I guess he could have been lying, but it's not uncommon for a lyncher to gain the town win condition if their target is otherwise killed and I don't see how he could actually have got me lynched after claiming, so I'm inclined to take his claim at face value.

[Twilight Sparkle]

also it's not a pony and it's a little delayed, but here is a reaction picture re: Ben governoring Zdenek:



in terms of internal ponytalk: Mina gets a scum vibe on LMP's posts but he's not the sk (or he wouldn't have gambited claiming the kill d2.) So our plan is currently: lynch the sk (and can it be anyone but LL?), lynch zden, then probably LMP if the game is still going.

-hito

[popsofctown]

dude. The SK can't be LL. He already posted and proved why he can't be bulletproof. Lyncher out to get you+ no vest+ no partners+PR loaded scum+PR loaded town+large game doesn't add up to a fairly balanced SK, at all.

[Twilight Sparkle]

How is not confirmed not bulletproof? Because zorasters PM had a stipulation for what happens if LL is nk'd? Is that the same thing as how any cop who's told their sanity isn't confirmed is guaranteed non-sane?

[popsofctown]

Ok. Ignore LL's original argument and read my post above that one ^^^^

[danakillsu]

@Locke Lamora:

Do you think Zoraster would have become a Lannister-aligned townie if you had been lynched?

@danakillsu:

Do you think I'm the Stark or the SK?

Not sure, of course. You have played more like the SK though, with few cut and dried ties to other players.

[Magua]

You know what? I'm just flailing at this point. I've really lost all desire to do anything else this day.

I want to lynch Zdenek. I really do. But I can't.

I want to lynch Locke Lamora. Not as much as Zdenek, but I still really do. Anything having to do with the setup aside, I don't like his play. Everything about it is fence-sitting. Even now he's fence-sitting. I. Just. Don't. Like. It. But there's not the votes.

So you know what? I give up. Benmage, hasdgfas, pops, just fucking pick someone to lynch and lets be on with it so we can get on to tomorrow where we can actually lynch Zdenek. I simply don't care anymore.

Zdenek > Locke Lamora > Twilight Sparkle > LynchMePls > danakillsu

[Locke Lamora]

Here's another question about me being SK: in a PR-heavy game, do you think that balance-wise it's also a good idea to put someone in the setup who wants to lynch the SK from the start of the game? I'm assuming you all understand how a SK has to play. They need to survive to the end. Throwing Zoraster in there with the goal of getting me lynched and then also requiring me to survive 22 other players, the large majority of who seem to be PRs, to win is just ludicrous. What would I have to do if I was SK? Survive 7 days? Maybe 8? To do that as a lyncher's target would be nigh-on impossible. It simply doesn't make sense. Not only that, but either you think I'm BP, in which case Zoraster's win chances go way, way up to the point of being unrealistic, or you don't think I'm BP, in which case my chances of winning the game as SK would have been practically zero from the start and everyone saying 'hey I bet mafia tried to kill Locke N1' is wrong. How do we know that the jack-of-some-trades didn't protect me N1? The below would certainly hint at that:

One of Twilight Sparkle and Mikujin are scum. I put my money on Mikujin.
One of these three is scum: Danakillsu, Locke Lamora, Thor665. I put my money on Locke Lamora.

Mikujin or Lock Lamora would make excellent lynches for today.

What say you to Zoraster being a lyncher? Do you think zoraster's target would be a scum member? I would lean believing that LL is town right now based on this information.

Finally, something has been bothering me. It's been bothering me all game but I couldn't decide whether it was scummy or not, probably because I was concerned I was being biased. And that something is this: TS has taken every opportunity to remind people that I could be the SK. Ever since Zoraster claimed his real role, that has been their line. I don't mean to say they've been shouting 'LL IS SK' all game. It's just that where most people were happy to say that a lyncher's target is pretty much likely to be town, TS was keen to keep that thread of doubt running. Now that has come to fruition because people actually think I might be the SK. To me, that speaks of a desire to keep suspect options open for future mislynches. The push now is quite clearly one of 'LL MUST be the SK, because what other possible explanation could there be'? This is reminiscent of Magna defending Macavitar in ACoK when he made it sound ridiculous that Mac could actually be scum after he'd been tracked to a kill. So, I'm going to finally put Magua out of his misery and:

Vote: Twilight Sparkle

Discuss.

[popsofctown]

goodposting

[Twilight Sparkle]

dude. The SK can't be LL. He already posted and proved why he can't be bulletproof. Lyncher out to get you+ no vest+ no partners+PR loaded scum+PR loaded town+large game doesn't add up to a fairly balanced SK, at all.

Let's break it down:

Lyncher out to get you

As I said before, I think having a lyncher on you is balanced if you have both immunities.

no vest

just proved why this isn't necessarily true (and my guess is that LL is inv-immune and nk immune)

no partners

this is also true for: every serial killer ever

PR loaded scum+PR loaded town+large game doesn't add up to a fairly balanced SK, at all.

IF you're nk immune and inv immune (or even just nk immune) the PRs do more to help you than hinder you. People who aren't you die quicker. And remember, SK win rates are NOT balanced against the town and scum. It's not supposed to be like, all three factions have equal chance of winning. sk win is supposed to be hard.

LL: You think we're scum or sk?

-hito

[Benmage]

vote Locke

I'm thinking this is wrong, but lets do this mislynch here than.

I'm dead.

Lynch magua before TS.

[Shadow1psc]

=\ I don't think lynching LL is a good idea. It doesn't make sense flavor-wise, I'm pretty sure he wasn't running around killing random Lannisters. He was clearly aligned. But tbh, that's the only thing that bugs me about it, just an itching feeling that LL is in fact town.

[LimMePls]

If I was given a fakeclaim that WASN'T VT, then it wouldn't make much sense AS A VT. Therefore, the fact that my claim makes sense as a VT should tell you that my fakeclaim would have had to be VT from the start to make me scum.

This makes me less likely scum,

though admittedly not a ton less likely

.

This is flatly false. Any claimed name could be VT.

You are stretching and you are refusing to acknowledge that even if your point were true

(which it isn't),

IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU CONFIRMED TOWN

.hat

But pops, this is ignoring the full chain of questioning. My original question was "Why are you calling yourself confirmed town". His response had 2 arguments, BOTH OF WHICH I SHOWED DO NOT MAKE HIM CONFIRMED TOWN. But nowhere did he admit that those pieces of evidence do NOT make him CONFIRMED town.

This argument is stupid, and I'm tired of it. The simple fact is dana was blatantly exaggerating by calling himself "confirmed", which is hugely anti-town at best. When people use the word "confirmed", it better damn well be fucking confirmed. I don't keep a spread sheet of all the claims, so when he called himself "confirmed" I spent about a half hour or so looking back in the record trying to figure out what the fuck he was talking about, when I couldn't figure out why he was confirmed I asked him to explain it, and it turned out to be BS.

I do not like the LL lynch. Zoraster's flip confirms LL's name, and Clegane being a SK against Lannister town doesn't seem right.

[Zdenek]

HE SUBTLY TRIES TO MAKE US GUESS IF HE'S SK OR SCUM, WHICHEVER WE DON'T WANT TO LYNCH.

This is ridiculous. I have explained why I can't be the SK and why I am not Stark.